Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

sully2010

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Was on LRA today from Heathrow. Felt very tight for space. I would not book this for trans Atlantic.

They have the same pitch as the 330, 320 and older 321's and an extra inch in width. Plus newer IFE and cabin, faster boarding and disembarkation. I'd have no problem flying it transatlantic.

Strumms

Could the same or similar seat pitch but when coupled with it being a narrow body, single aisle aircraft with a lower ceiling there is more of a cramped feeling to the whole experience...I’ve always liked the A321 as an aircraft but I have to say I wouldn’t enjoy being on one for six hours...it would feel very cramped very quickly...I can imagine too lots of people getting up, stretching their legs, going to talk to friends who are sat elsewhere as happens on ALL transatlantic flights...this on a narrow body single aisle aircraft is no good and will add to the cramped feeling..

Cloudio9

sully2010 wrote: »

They have the same pitch as the 330, 320 and older 321's and an extra inch in width. Plus newer IFE and cabin, faster boarding and disembarkation. I'd have no problem flying it transatlantic.

The arm rest is like a little blade compared to the a330. I’m guessing that’s where the “extra inch” is from. The seat is also thinner and firmer without giving you any more leg room.

Don’t think boarding and disembarking is faster on a single aisle with limited overhead space. The a330 boards 4 seats per aisle with no shortage of bins. The door isn’t the pinch point, it’s people faffing with the bins.

Also the single set of toilets at the rear for such a long economy section must create some issues on trans Atlantic. At least there was space inside them unlike in the 737 Max.

Two of the crew were talking shop about the workload on the aircraft. A bit unprofessional and they seemed a little gruff and cranky in general. I’d just come off long haul BA so maybe I was a bit more conscious of it as their crew and service are noticeably polished.

One other noticeable thing is how quiet it is on takeoff. No engine roar even when seated behind the engines.

sully2010

I flew the 757 and 737max transatlantic and found it completely fine. With the larger cabin on the 321, even better. Slept better as there were less people/cabin crew and noise than on the bigger birds and prefered the faster on and offboarding. I thought I would hate it but I never felt cramped and I preferred it to a 777 or air Transat 3-3-3 seating.

Strumms wrote: »

Could the same or similar seat pitch but when coupled with it being a narrow body, single aisle aircraft with a lower ceiling there is more of a cramped feeling to the whole experience...I’ve always liked the A321 as an aircraft but I have to say I wouldn’t enjoy being on one for six hours...it would feel very cramped very quickly...I can imagine too lots of people getting up, stretching their legs, going to talk to friends who are sat elsewhere as happens on ALL transatlantic flights...this on a narrow body single aisle aircraft is no good and will add to the cramped feeling..

kevinandrew

Looks like EI-DEI 'Green Spirit' has had its player decals removed again.

Bussywussy

kevinandrew wrote: »

Looks like EI-DEI 'Green Spirit' has had its player decals removed again.

It looked much better with them off tbh

EI321

Bussywussy wrote: »

It looked much better with them off tbh

Photo:

https://m.planespotters.net/photo/1003392/ei-dei-aer-lingus-airbus-a320-214

billy few mates

Looks a bit bare if you ask me.

adam88

billy few mates wrote: »

Looks a bit bare if you ask me.

You must Hate the new colour scheme so

billy few mates

adam88 wrote: »

You must Hate the new colour scheme so

Out of interest, how did you arrive at that conclusion from a one line reply to a post about the aircraft with the IRFU livery...?

Captain_Crash

I'd imagine because the IRFU livery has a bit more going on. If you think its bare looking then it stands to reason that you may think the new livery is also bare. Just my take on it

billy few mates

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I'd imagine because the IRFU livery has a bit more going on. If you think its bare looking then it stands to reason that you may think the new livery is also bare. Just my take on it

No, after some initial misgivings I've actually grown quite fond of the minimalist look of the new livery.
I just think the IRFU livery now looks a bit bare since they've removed the images of the players. I think the current IRFU livery might be seen as a little confusing to some people who might not be familiar with the branding or Irish rugby. I think they could have removed the players but replaced the images with some more generic rugby images which would have had the same impact but without over personalising it.

EI321

Why were the decals removed, is it to change the players on it or is the aircraft being painted?

sherology

EI321 wrote: »

Why were the decals removed, is it to change the players on it or is the aircraft being painted?

I second that question... Did they not 'stick' properly? Assume they're an expensive addition (very)... Decals and the effort to add them.

Nibs05

EI-LRC Due in tonight

Cloudio9

Nibs05 wrote: »

EI-LRC Due in tonight

Descending over the Irish Sea now

rameire

Nibs05 wrote: »

EI-LRC Due in tonight

Crossing the Irish Sea now.

liiga

Is it true Aerlingus are looking at the Thomas cook A330s

Karl8415

liiga wrote: »

Is it true Aerlingus are looking at the Thomas cook A330s

At a guess I'd doubt it because Thomas Cook's 330's are all 200 series and EI are fazing their 200's out over next few years in place of all 300 models plus they don't have commonalitie when it comes to engines

kevinandrew

I'd be surprised, the Thomas Cook fleet of A332s have an average of almost 16 years, they're also the completely wrong engine type.

If Aer Lingus want additional or replacement A330s, they'll get them fresh from Airbus or opt for younger second hand frames on competitive lease deals.

liiga

Ok I just wonder was it true as I read it somewhere

Tenger

Karl8415 wrote: »

At a guess I'd doubt it because Thomas Cook's 330's are all 200 series and EI are fazing their 200's out over next few years in place of all 300 models plus they don't have commonalitie when it comes to engines

cough *A330-800neo* cough

Shamrockj

Tenger wrote: »

cough *A330-800neo* cough

If anything it would be -900neo I would imagine?

California Dreamer

Tenger wrote: »

cough *A330-800neo* cough

But what type of IFE will they have???? :D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tenger

Shamrockj wrote: »

If anything it would be -900neo I would imagine?

-800 would bridge the capacity gap from A321LR to A333. (168 vs 317)
Allows them to tailor aircraft to demand on certain routes.

alancostello

Tenger wrote: »

-800 would bridge the capacity gap from A321LR to A333. (168 vs 317)
Allows them to tailor aircraft to demand on certain routes.

They won't order the -800 for the same reason they're not ordering new -200s, the difference in operational cost is negligible, they only bought the -200s in the first place for range and now that we have the HGW -300s (or 900s if the time ever comes), it's not necessary.

The order books at Airbus tell you the exact same thing, there are 248 orders for the A330neo, only 10 are for the -800.

goingnowhere

-800 is dead I think

There is effectively zero difference in cost in flying the -200 vs -300 (same crew costs), -300 can carry more people and more volume of cargo. EI has moved to -300 all Summer on SFO and still hasn't enough capacity.

The only direct hit is the ATC charge on weight.

EI owns several of its -200's so will fly them until they cannot fly anymore and part them out.

VG31

Here's a few pictures of business class (AerSpace) on the Aer Lingus A321neo from Dublin to LHR. The €150 fare was well worth it for the lie-flat seat. I wouldn't pay for it just for the normal blocked middle seat.
The IFE selection was extremely limited, just a handful of Irish films/documentaries. The crew weren't proactive about the free food for AerSpace.

sherology

'the crew weren't proactive about free food'... Do you mean they passed through as per usual euro-route, offering Bia, didn't charge, and kept going? Guess that's the dealio

Thanks for the info... Was it busy up front?

sherology

goingnowhere wrote: »

-800 is dead I think

There is effectively zero difference in cost in flying the -200 vs -300 (same crew costs), -300 can carry more people and more volume of cargo. EI has moved to -300 all Summer on SFO and still hasn't enough capacity.

The only direct hit is the ATC charge on weight.

EI owns several of its -200's so will fly them until they cannot fly anymore and part them out.

True. They'll use the -800 as the basis for a new MRTT, cargo etc. That said, a -900 based cargo derivative is being shopped to UPS/FedEx... Hence the 767-genx study going on right now at Boeing.

Anywho... The -800 is pretty much a -900, so doesn't cost AB much to have it 'developed and avIlAble' if a market appears.

VG31

sherology wrote: »

'the crew weren't proactive about free food'... Do you mean they passed through as per usual euro-route, offering Bia, didn't charge, and kept going? Guess that's the dealio

Yes pretty much. I appreciate it's not full business class but some people just had drinks and they didn't ask if they wanted anything else.

sherology wrote: »

Thanks for the info... Was it busy up front?

There were about 6 or 7 as far as I remember.

Shamrockj

Tenger wrote: »

-800 would bridge the capacity gap from A321LR to A333. (168 vs 317)
Allows them to tailor aircraft to demand on certain routes.

Cant see that happening . As they have said before all new orders will be -300 as the cost difference is minimal to operate and they can now fly the -300 to the west coast.

Locker10a

VG31 wrote: »

Yes pretty much. I appreciate it's not full business class but some people just had drinks and they didn't ask if they wanted anything else.



.

But like you say it’s not business class and no catering is provided, it’s essentially a seat upgrade with benefits attached. The onus is on you to select what you want from the buy on board

goingnowhere

Some people won't eat at all.

I get comp breakfast at a major hotel chain, doesn't mean I go for the full spread, champagne, omelette etc every time

Tenger

VG31 wrote: »

Yes pretty much. I appreciate it's not full business class but some people just had drinks and they didn't ask if they wanted anything else.......

Isnt AerSpace a drink and a snack? So not really much need to ask too many questions.
And its a 45-50 minute flight so based on my time in EI, getting through the cabin quickly is a priority.


re -800neo. I understand the logic but part of me thinks it has its niche.
Airbus claim it shares 99% commonality with the -900 so very little difference to develop or build.

California Dreamer

Is there any arguments for a dedicated cargo aircraft fleet?

Captain_Crash

California Dreamer wrote: »

Is there any arguments for a dedicated cargo aircraft fleet?

IAG Cargo already exists and there used to be a 747-8f operated by GSS which was painted in full BA livery.


These days, the current passenger fleet of the IAG airlines has enough cargo space in the belly to handle the current cargo needs and anything extra is just wet leased.

California Dreamer

California Dreamer wrote: »

Is there any arguments for a dedicated cargo aircraft fleet?

There is very large airlines that have a cargo arm let alone medium sized ones. EI as a small carrier and that is what it is has zero reason to have one.

sherology

California Dreamer wrote: »

Is there any arguments for a dedicated cargo aircraft fleet?

One of the main 'underfloor' benefits of the a330 are their large (and containerised) bellies... Similar for a320 series (excluding the LR, but including the XLR). Couple that with a lot of modern travelers taking only carry-on (encouraged by expensive bag fees), and you get a lot of belly space for no additional 'dedicated/single-fucntion' outlay.

A lot of expensive cargo airframes with Qatar/ethiad etc. were parked during recent recession's, and freighter sales are generally pretty low, likely for the reasons given. A lot of upfront money for a very uncertain/unpredictable market.

Sweating (or maximizing) assets and being risk adverse isn't a bad thing

liiga

Is A321neo reg EI-LRD still coming this year
Or is it held back for 2020

goingnowhere

Based on frame number very late 2019 if lucky

liiga

goingnowhere wrote: »

Based on frame number very late 2019 if lucky

Ok thank you for let me know

Locker10a

sherology wrote: »

One of the main 'underfloor' benefits of the a330 are their large (and containerised) bellies... Similar for a320 series (excluding the LR, but including the XLR). Couple that with a lot of modern travelers taking only carry-on (encouraged by expensive bag fees), and you get a lot of belly space for no additional 'dedicated/single-fucntion' outlay.

A lot of expensive cargo airframes with Qatar/ethiad etc. were parked during recent recession's, and freighter sales are generally pretty low, likely for the reasons given. A lot of upfront money for a very uncertain/unpredictable market.

Sweating (or maximizing) assets and being risk adverse isn't a bad thing

So are the 321neoLR don’t take the standard containers ?

sdanseo

Strumms wrote: »

Could the same or similar seat pitch but when coupled with it being a narrow body, single aisle aircraft with a lower ceiling there is more of a cramped feeling to the whole experience...I’ve always liked the A321 as an aircraft but I have to say I wouldn’t enjoy being on one for six hours...it would feel very cramped very quickly...I can imagine too lots of people getting up, stretching their legs, going to talk to friends who are sat elsewhere as happens on ALL transatlantic flights...this on a narrow body single aisle aircraft is no good and will add to the cramped feeling..

This is the crux of it. A barn with a kitchenette and a bed in it can have the same floor space as a high end mansion and can house you just as well, but no one in their right mind would move from a mansion to a barn.

The dual aisle setup feels more like a long-haul space, the second aisle generates the illusion of a huge amount more space than there actually is (for example if it was 4-4 vs 2-4-2 it would feel a hell of a lot smaller).

321LR are a fantastic aircraft and very capable for shorter TA routes. That doesn't mean I'd rather them to an A330, much the opposite. But most people don't care and three main things will continue to drive people to EI: price, service level and preclearance.

Locker10a wrote: »

So are the 321neoLR don’t take the standard containers ?

It takes LD3-45 whereas an A330 takes LD3. They are the standard for the A320 series but have a significantly smaller volume (and therefore cargo volume is less than a quarter of the A330)

Hotblack Desiato

The LR can take fewer of them too compared to a standard 321, due to the space taken up by the fuel tanks.

sherology

Locker10a wrote: »

So are the 321neoLR don’t take the standard containers ?

The LR uses cargo space (up to 4 containers) for add-in/removal able fuel tanks (heavy and take up a lot of space... But you get extra range).

The XLR has an integrated larger fuel tank (built in), that takes up the space of only 1-addition tank, so will allow more belly space. It is the true trucker, with the LR being a abit of a design-patch-job... Bit it does the job

Hotblack Desiato

When EI get XLRs they'll then have the option of removing the tanks from LRs, turning them into standard 321neos, and using them exclusively on Euro routes. The existing 321ceos are getting old and will have to be replaced within a few years.

Van.Bosch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

When EI get XLRs they'll then have the option of removing the tanks from LRs, turning them into standard 321neos, and using them exclusively on Euro routes. The existing 321ceos are getting old and will have to be replaced within a few years.

Yeah but the cabin would have to be refitted to take out the business class seats.

goingnowhere

And they would need to activate the currently hidden full size exit door behind the wing for evac requirements if they densify. If AerSpace does well (and it could be winner on LHR/CDG/FRA) there may be a case to keep full J seating.

EI is leasing here so assume as a break clause in the future so could swap out to XLR for all. XLR is the better hull, you get more fuel and more hold volume

adam88

goingnowhere wrote: »

And they would need to activate the currently hidden full size exit door behind the wing for evac requirements if they densify. If AerSpace does well (and it could be winner on LHR/CDG/FRA) there may be a case to keep full J seating.

EI is leasing here so assume as a break clause in the future so could swap out to XLR for all. XLR is the better hull, you get more fuel and more hold volume

Why didn’t they just get the xlr then in that case or was it a case the the LR are a stop gap until the xlr are available.

What have they done to the XLR that it has the extra range,,,, is it the same engine and same plane in terms of length and size ???