Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

NH2013

EI-EIN being flown from TLS to BRU today for cabin fitting, departing at 14:30 from TLS.

Bussywussy

Tenger wrote: »

Any estimate of when EIK will join the fleet? I’m guessing our heads up will be when MSN 789 goes into a paint shop.

Paint next Wednesday I last heard so add on a week or 10 days plus more handover bits...so realistically it could be mid to end of march

d51984

Big jet tv is currently live at TLS. You can see EI-EIN parked there.

sherology

Tenger wrote: »

Any estimate of when EIK will join the fleet? I’m guessing our heads up will be when MSN 789 goes into a paint shop.

From Flying In Ireland (last month): EI-EIK Airbus A330-302 c/n 789 Aer Lingus for delivery April ex A7-AEH.

Looks like things are aligning to this date.

kevinandrew

d51984 wrote: »

Big jet tv is currently live at TLS. You can see EI-EIN parked there.

Pity he had to leave so soon, could have seen it depart.

Van.Bosch

Bussywussy wrote: »

Paint next Wednesday I last heard so add on a week or 10 days plus more handover bits...so realistically it could be mid to end of march

Is this going to be the new EI-GEY, with the QR business class seats?

kevinandrew

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Is this going to be the new EI-GEY, with the QR business class seats?

I think the plan is for it to be refitted but even if it isn’t, this aircraft has a much better business class product than what EI-GEY originally came with.

Here’s a report of the aircraft;

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-reports/1828600-qatar-airways-a330-300-business-class-doha-maldives-youtube-clip.html

While not identical, the basics remain.

goingnowhere

EIK already has 30 lie flat seats fitted, different spec but exact same seat count as the current A330-300

All are 2 seat pairs not the 1/2/2 + 1/2/1 per EI spec. Unclear if a refit will occur, but EI-EWR is going back so there are some seats available

forestlover

Flew with Aerlingus to and from Miami and I have to say even as a very nervous flyer it was great. Bigger planes then normally fly the route, A330 - 302, so loads of space to lie down etc. Good bit of turbulence on the way back due to the tail wind but felt safe and comfortable the whole time.

Interesting as well flew with American Airlines during the trip also going to S/America and on take off and landing the do not ask you to open up the window blind, any reason why this is the norm for European airlines and not for AA?

Locker10a

forestlover wrote: »

Flew with Aerlingus to and from Miami and I have to say even as a very nervous flyer it was great. Bigger planes then normally fly the route, A330 - 302, so loads of space to lie down etc. Good bit of turbulence on the way back due to the tail wind but felt safe and comfortable the whole time.

Interesting as well flew with American Airlines during the trip also going to S/America and on take off and landing the do not ask you to open up the window blind, any reason why this is the norm for European airlines and not for AA?

The window blind thing is not an FAA requirement, they’re basically not as strict with regulations as European authorities. It’s surprising as I’d consider it quite an important one but there you go

EchoIndia

forestlover wrote: »

Flew with Aerlingus to and from Miami and I have to say even as a very nervous flyer it was great. Bigger planes then normally fly the route, A330 - 302, so loads of space to lie down etc. Good bit of turbulence on the way back due to the tail wind but felt safe and comfortable the whole time.

Interesting as well flew with American Airlines during the trip also going to S/America and on take off and landing the do not ask you to open up the window blind, any reason why this is the norm for European airlines and not for AA?

European law versus US law?

goingnowhere

Delta seem to insist on the window blinds open.

US in general has a more lax approach, bags under seats at exit rows etc. Large headphones etc are not an issue at take off/landing

kevinandrew

Mr.S wrote: »

Is that an issue with European carriers? I never seen them ask people to take them off for take off / landing

Aer Lingus do, they're often questioned about it via their social media platforms and never appear able to give a straight answer which does them no favours.

I can understand the reasoning, sound cancelling headphones at crucial stages of flight isn't the best idea and they also tend to be quite heavy with thick wiring which could easily become a projectile or obstruction within the cabin in the event of an emergency.

Unfortunately Aer Lingus have never made it clear via their website or when asked directly and some people (with far too much time of their hands) just won't accept any of their answers, apparently listening to their music is far more important to aircraft safety!

Just look at this ridiculous exchange;

https://twitter.com/JonnyCosgrove/status/1230774161414316037

Click to expand the conversation.

I bet the social media team just wanted to tell him to get a life.

Third_Echelon

goingnowhere wrote: »

Delta seem to insist on the window blinds open.

US in general has a more lax approach, bags under seats at exit rows etc. Large headphones etc are not an issue at take off/landing

Can’t really agree with that. Fly quite a bit with Alaska and Southwest in the US and they are quite strict on exit row passengers with bags etc. Always have to go up into the overhead for takeoff and landing. Headphones they go over ear is only really a thing with Aer Lingus for some reason.

MJohnston

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus do, they're often questioned about it via their social media platforms and never appear able to give a straight answer which does them no favours.

I can understand the reasoning, sound cancelling headphones at crucial stages of flight isn't the best idea and they also tend to be quite heavy with thick wiring which could easily become a projectile or obstruction within the cabin in the event of an emergency.

Unfortunately Aer Lingus have never made it clear via their website or when asked directly and some people (with far too much time of their hands) just won't accept any of their answers, apparently listening to their music is far more important to aircraft safety!

Just look at this ridiculous exchange;

https://twitter.com/JonnyCosgrove/status/1230774161414316037

Click to expand the conversation.

I bet the social media team just wanted to tell him to get a life.

None of that reasoning really works - there have been fully wireless over ear headphones for many years that wouldn’t cause any physical problems. In addition, there have been in-ear ones that have had noise cancellation for a while too, yet those are fine?

That all said, I kept my over ear headphones on on my last flight to SFO, so maybe they’ve dropped this silly idea.

trellheim

That all said, I kept my over ear headphones on on my last flight to SFO, so maybe they’ve dropped this silly idea.

They have not let me assure you.

EI verbally tell people to remove muff-style headphones but allow earbuds for taxi takeoff and landing , they are draconian on this. However it is listed nowhere on their website or Cara magazine (or didnt at my last readthrough ) , which in other respects matches the safety brief correctly.



Ryanair depends on who you get in cabin crew but if I recall it is the same for safety brief anyway after that they are not too worried.

billy few mates

I wear my wireless earbuds from the moment I arrive at the airport w the minute I arrive at the far side (mostly so I don't have to engage with the people around me) but I have no problem taking them out for the couple of minutes it takes to do the safety briefing even though I've heard it a thousand times before.
I already know my nearest emergency exit and I've already worked out who I need to take down to get to it...

Locker10a

trellheim wrote: »

They have not let me assure you.

EI verbally tell people to remove muff-style headphones but allow earbuds for taxi takeoff and landing , they are draconian on this. However it is listed nowhere on their website or Cara magazine (or didnt at my last readthrough ) , which in other respects matches the safety brief correctly.



Ryanair depends on who you get in cabin crew but if I recall it is the same for safety brief anyway after that they are not too worried.

A friend told me it’s also EI procedure to do something like 3 random checks on PEDs to make sure they’re in flight mode, as in the Cabin crew are supposed to asked random passengers to hand over their phone or display it in such a way that the crew member can clearly see it’s in flight mode. I bet none of you have seen this and it’s because the crew themselves feel it ridiculous and far to invasive but were they to do their job exactly to the book that’s what they should do as part of their cabin secure checks.

Tenger

One point to remember is that the inflight magazine does not have a comprehensive list of all the safety regs of the airlines
(does it have refuelling during boarding procedures?)

Regardless of whether we agree with this policy, it is an instruction given by a representative of the captain. Part of buying the tickets is agreeing to comply with all instructions from crew.


As an aside, if your headphones are wireless Im going to assume they use Bluetooth?
Which isn't permitted according to the in-flight magazine (which I last checked in December)
So pulling out the magazine to argue may not be a great idea!!

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

They have not let me assure you.

EI verbally tell people to remove muff-style headphones but allow earbuds for taxi takeoff and landing , they are draconian on this. However it is listed nowhere on their website or Cara magazine (or didnt at my last readthrough ) , which in other respects matches the safety brief correctly.



Ryanair depends on who you get in cabin crew but if I recall it is the same for safety brief anyway after that they are not too worried.

I wonder if it’s because the last time I flew it was business class? They definitely saw me wearing the headphones and said nothing.

Noxegon

Tenger wrote: »

As an aside, if your headphones are wireless Im going to assume they use Bluetooth?
Which isn't permitted according to the in-flight magazine (which I last checked in December)
So pulling out the magazine to argue may not be a great idea!!

Unless something has changed very recently the magazine refers to MiniDisc players. I wonder whether any of those have been seen on an EI flight in the last five years

FWIW, my own pet peeve is the fact that EI do not allow iPads during taxi/takeoff/landing. They're fine on FR, and indeed every other airline I use regularly.

I really wish we could have some global standard for what is and is not considered safe in the cabin – but I guess that's a pipe dream.

Jack1985

MJohnston wrote: »

I wonder if it’s because the last time I flew it was business class? They definitely saw me wearing the headphones and said nothing.

There is no restriction in Business as the risk factor was demened negligible for risk of the window seat getting passed the aisle seats with headphones in the way - there was a difference for 3X3 or 2X4X2.

Jack1985

LRD's first revenue service planned for Tuesday 03/03 as;

EIN158 DUB0950-1120LHR 32Q EI-LRD
EIN159 LHR1215-1345DUB 32Q EI-LRD

It then positions on Wednesday 04/03 to operate its first transatlantic crossing as;

EIN990 DUB0955-1045SNN 32Q EI-LRD
EIN1AC SNN1200-1425BOS 32Q EI-LRD

EI-LRA will take the honours on Wednesday of operating the EI380/381 SNN-LHR-SNN service, after arriving that morning from JFK.

Charles Babbage

MJohnston wrote: »

None of that reasoning really works - there have been fully wireless over ear headphones for many years that wouldn’t cause any physical problems. In addition, there have been in-ear ones that have had noise cancellation for a while too, yet those are fine?

That all said, I kept my over ear headphones on on my last flight to SFO, so maybe they’ve dropped this silly idea.

People should be able to hear announcements. if you are flying on an 11 hour flight it is not a significant inconvenience nor unreasonable in any way to take off the headphones for 2 minutes taking off and landing.

Shamrockj

EI-EIM first flight is 119 DUB-IAD 12.40 on 12th of March

alancostello

A7-AEH (potential future EI-EIK) is now en route DOH-DUB https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a7-aeh#2400bc24

Noxegon

Charles Babbage wrote: »

People should be able to hear announcements. if you are flying on an 11 hour flight it is not a significant inconvenience nor unreasonable in any way to take off the headphones for 2 minutes taking off and landing.

I agree apart from the 2 minutes - it’s closer to ten times that when you include taxi time and preparation for landing.

Scoot does not allow headphones of any kind during this period.

I flew SIN-IPH last year and was allowed to use my headphones for about fifteen minutes.

FWIW, and at the risk of some thread drift, I have to say that, safety demo notwithstanding, I tend to tune the PA out because much of the time it is used for unimportant things like scratch cards and perfumes that are exclusive to Aer Lingus. I can’t be the only one who does this — it’d be interesting to study whether customers would pay more attention (and thus safety would be improved) with fewer announcements. Less is more etc.

Locker10a

Noxegon wrote: »

I agree apart from the 2 minutes - it’s closer to ten times that when you include taxi time and preparation for landing.

Scoot does not allow headphones of any kind during this period.

I flew SIN-IPH last year and was allowed to use my headphones for about fifteen minutes.

FWIW, and at the risk of some thread drift, I have to say that, safety demo notwithstanding, I tend to tune the PA out because much of the time it is used for unimportant things like scratch cards and perfumes that are exclusive to Aer Lingus. I can’t be the only one who does this — it’d be interesting to study whether customers would pay more attention (and thus safety would be improved) with fewer announcements. Less is more etc.

I absolutely agree re: shorter, concise only safety related PAs but EI most certainly don’t sell scratch cards lol

Captain_Crash

Locker10a wrote: »

I absolutely agree re: shorter, concise only safety related PAs but EI most certainly don’t sell scratch cards lol

I was trying to video the water cannon salute after arriving into MIA on EI's inaugural service and it was ruined by incessant ramblings of the purser on the PA.



Non stop talking from the moment we vacated the runway and was still waffling when we stopped at the gate... Would not shut up, first world problems eh lol.

HTCOne

All this talk about the headphones.....the rules are in Annex 6. IIRC the rule says something along the lines of "the operator shall ensure all passengers hear and understand the evacuation procedures".

GM228

HTCOne wrote: »

All this talk about the headphones.....the rules are in Annex 6. IIRC the rule says something along the lines of "the operator shall ensure all passengers hear and understand the evacuation procedures".

Are you sure about that?

I thought Annex 6 leaves it to the operator to establish their procedures for such.

MJohnston

Charles Babbage wrote: »

People should be able to hear announcements. if you are flying on an 11 hour flight it is not a significant inconvenience nor unreasonable in any way to take off the headphones for 2 minutes taking off and landing.

Great - so then why are in-earphones still allowed?

Locker10a

Honestly lads, if you want to feed this back to EI then complete your “voice of the guest” survey when/if you receive it. It’s the only thing EI listen to.
Twitter or giving the cabin crew a hard time will not change anything

MJohnston

Locker10a wrote: »

Honestly lads, if you want to feed this back to EI then complete your “voice of the guest” survey when/if you receive it. It’s the only thing EI listen to.
Twitter or giving the cabin crew a hard time will not change anything

I'm not doing either of those things, I'm just trying to understand the policy as it doesn't make any sense.

trellheim

I agree it does not.

Airlines have no problem with "You must not smoke in the jacks" or some variant thereof during safety announcements , same with "tray tables must be up during taxi takeoff and landing"

headphones they are completely all over the shop

Flesh Gorden

I remember either reading or being told that if anything were to go wrong in flight, it's in the first 10 and the final 10mins of that flight.

In other words if the thing were to crash land or drop from the sky on takeoff and require you to be fully aware of what's about to happen.

Aer Lingus are definitely sticklers for compliance, especially when sat closer to the back or front of the plane.

Ryanair, it's only been with the Polish crews, who I've seen enforce it and with full compliance from those I could see around me.

Locker10a

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

I remember either reading or being told that if anything were to go wrong in flight, it's in the first 10 and the final 10mins of that flight.

In other words if the thing were to crash land or drop from the sky on takeoff and require you to be fully aware of what's about to happen.
.

This is correct

Shamrockj

All headphones / earphones must be removed for the demo. Over the head ones / noise cancelling must be removed for take off and landing.
1 you cant hear announcements.
2 you wouldn't be able to brace properly as it had a band over your head.

MJohnston

Shamrockj wrote: »

All headphones / earphones must be removed for the demo. Over the head ones / noise cancelling must be removed for take off and landing.
1 you cant hear announcements.
2 you wouldn't be able to brace properly as it had a band over your head.

But this isn't what happens! In-ear phones are specifically announced as being fine on Aer Lingus flights, and nobody is asked to remove any type of head or ear phone in business class, it seems.

Like I said, it's a rule that makes absolutely no sense. Either everyone needs to be able to hear announcements, and so the rule should apply to all head or ear phones and all cabin classes, or it doesn't really matter and they should drop it.

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

But this isn't what happens! In-ear phones are specifically announced as being fine on Aer Lingus flights, and nobody is asked to remove any type of head or ear phone in business class, it seems.

Like I said, it's a rule that makes absolutely no sense. Either everyone needs to be able to hear announcements, and so the rule should apply to all head or ear phones and all cabin classes, or it doesn't really matter and they should drop it.

I’m struggling with your logic here.

Surely wearing over ear headphones increase the risk of not hearing emergency announcements during the riskiest part she of the journey (take off and landing)?

In my experience of wearing in-ear buds you can still hear that an announcement is being made, but noise cancelling headphones could mean that they’re not heard?

To be quite honest it is coming across from your posts that you know better.

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

I’m struggling with your logic here.

Surely wearing over ear headphones increase the risk of not hearing emergency announcements during the riskiest part she of the journey (take off and landing)?

In my experience of wearing in-ear buds you can still hear that an announcement is being made, but noise cancelling headphones could mean that they’re not heard?

To be quite honest it is coming across from your posts that you know better.

My point is that Aer Lingus make announcements that "over ear" headphones have to be removed for take-off, but "in ear" ear phones can be worn and used during that time.

This is a confusing delineation for me because it is derived from an incorrect assumption (the one that you have yourself made) that in-ear lets you hear your surroundings.

Most modern wireless in-ear earphones have very good passive noise reduction, and plenty of them have active noise cancellation*

So I guess what I'd say is if you're going to tell people to remove over-ear headphones during this phase of the flight, you have to do it for in-ear earphones too.

In addition, if the reasoning for asking people to remove headphones is so that they can hear safety announcements, then it also makes no sense that those in the business class cabin are not asked to remove headphones.



(*I'd also note that most modern wireless over-ear headphones, like my own, have an option to invert the noise cancellation so that you can pipe in environmental noise as if you weren't wearing any headphones at all.)

goingnowhere

In business class the EI issued headphones can only be used with the onboard IFE so any PA will go through the IFE if it is working

If the IFE is dead the noise cancellation dies

On a ATR I struggle to hear the PA in flight, but I can with the noise cancellation headphones on with no audio.

Tenger

This point came up a few weeks ago.
At the time I took a guess that the EI rule was devised before in-ear had noise cancelling. Go back a few years and only large overhead sets were noise cancelling.
I'm guessing that the rule has been overtaken by advances in tech.

sherology

Jack1985 wrote: »

LRD's first revenue service planned for Tuesday 03/03 as;

EIN158 DUB0950-1120LHR 32Q EI-LRD
EIN159 LHR1215-1345DUB 32Q EI-LRD

It then positions on Wednesday 04/03 to operate its first transatlantic crossing as;

EIN990 DUB0955-1045SNN 32Q EI-LRD
EIN1AC SNN1200-1425BOS 32Q EI-LRD

EI-LRA will take the honours on Wednesday of operating the EI380/381 SNN-LHR-SNN service, after arriving that morning from JFK.

LRD was the one that had the extra 'third' ACT (tank) right h although I think I read here that LRC went for an extra one - would this be the 'D' one -swapped from D into C? SNN routes won't need the extra ACT I guess. Has the extra tank been popped into one of the other LRs, or in a hangar for bad weather/on-demand?

trellheim

I landed on a Delta A330 yesterday, there was no requirement to remove any headsets for any phase of taxi, flight or on the previous Delta A320 flight . Cabin crew and Flight crew PAs were perfectly audible through my Sony over-ears.

As MJ says they allow it for EI business class on longhaul so pay-to-play it looks like - yes, a source of frustration

Tenger

trellheim wrote: »

I landed on a Delta A330 yesterday, there was no requirement to remove any headsets for any phase of taxi, flight or on the previous Delta A320 flight . Cabin crew and Flight crew PAs were perfectly audible through my Sony over-ears.

As MJ says they allow it for EI business class on longhaul so pay-to-play it looks like - yes, a source of frustration

Delta are not EI. Each airline has its own rules.

EI Business class headsets are plugged into the PA system.

Third_Echelon

I’ve actually found that it’s easier to hear the PA announcements with noise cancelling headphones on (either in or over ear). It filters out all the noise and you can actually hear what they say. If you take your headphones off, the announcements are usually very hard to hear due to crappy speakers and engine noise.

trellheim

Delta are not EI. Each airline has its own rules.

oh for sure its EI's trainset, they can do what they like, my point originally above was that it appears completely arbitrary even on the same airplane and thus a source of frustration.


Moving back on thread topic does anyone know if Austin Tx is a route candidate, these last few weeks have left me with a happy displeasure from connecting through any hub ...

MJohnston

Tenger wrote: »

Delta are not EI. Each airline has its own rules.

EI Business class headsets are plugged into the PA system.

Who said anything about the provided headsets? I'm talking about over-ear headphones not connected to the IFE system - they do not ask you to remove those in business class, at all, in my experience.

California Dreamer

Wow I hope we can go round in circles on this headphones crack for another 2 pages and still not get anywhere!! :mad::rolleyes: