Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Kcormahs

joeysoap wrote: »

I thought Ursula von der Leyen said on Friday governments could provide aid to firms effected by coronavirus and over 3b of eu money was available? I don’t think that Dutch, French, German governments are going to let their ‘ their, airlines go bust over this without support.

Those governments wouldnt. But Irish government would have a different approach to ryr and ei

Kcormahs

Tenger wrote: »

I would think 20% temporarily laid off/unpaid leave at a minimum.
It was announced last week that EI were asking staff to take unpaid leave/part-time.
Trump's travel ban has made the situation even worse.

20% only cabin crew pilots or ground staff, office staff etc?
20% maybe a bit too low? Id say 50%?

kevinandrew

State aid rules have been relaxed somewhat, governments can provide fair support so long as no one company is given preferential treatment.

It could be a case where a government commits to providing their own aviation industry with a support package designed to benefit home registered airlines, airports and suppliers. Governments will need to be very careful what parameters they use to identify who and what deserves support.

The likes of Ryanair and IAG can stick to their anti-state air stance but it will do them no favours while rivals gladly take handouts.

EchoIndia

Here is EI-EWR as it departed Dublin this morning for the last time.

Cosmo Kramer

Kcormahs wrote: »

With the situation changing so quickly for worse, Will ryanair and aer lingus let staff go, primarily cabin crew/pilots?
If so, 20%? 50%?

I'd say higher, particularly at EI given the transatlantic situation. SAS today announcing the cutting of 90% of staff for the foreseeable would be an equivalent example.

sherology

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

I'd say higher, particularly at EI given the transatlantic situation. SAS today announcing the cutting of 90% of staff for the foreseeable would be an equivalent example.

I'd agree. Daily trunk routes to nearshore hub and spoke airports that EI interline with (JFK/BOS/ORD/CDG/FRA/AMS), and a few daily LHR flights... And your done. Planes cargo stuffed and passenger light, with pretty high fares for those who must fly. There just won't be passengers. Anything EI isn't locked in to do in terms of new livery painting etc. scrapped. Onboard catering stopped on all but long flights - staff there for safety only. Water bottles handed to flyers. No other interaction.

June 1 is looking more likely to me for a 'slow' rebuild, marketing effort, as a loose guide date. I think the EU could be convinced to support these 'cohesion' routes to keep the EU connected.

Looking at the six o'clock news this evening, the throngs of people in temple bar, queues of people compressed at tills in supermarkets and stores is alarming in people missing the point. Even the check-in line at Dublin, and the health monitoring lines in the US airports for incoming passengers are like Petri dishes. The world need a lock-down like they just started in Spain or we'll be doing this through summer.

LRs are going to come in handy, and SNN TATL is gonna have to stop.

Pete2k

EchoIndia wrote: »

Here is EI-EWR as it departed Dublin this morning for the last time.

Maybe they should have kept it an extra day and sent it down to fuerteventura and lanzarote to rescue all the people they abandoned there yesterday.

sherology

Pete2k wrote: »

Maybe they should have kept it an extra day and sent it down to fuerteventura and lanzarote to rescue all the people they abandoned there yesterday.

They're sending 'larger' aircraft down until Thursday according to Simon Convey (regarding repatriation). After Thursday (or soon thereafter) it sounded like they're stopping flights.

Fireball81

sherology wrote: »

They're sending 'larger' aircraft down until Thursday according to Simon Convey (regarding repatriation). After Thursday (or soon thereafter) it sounded like they're stopping flights.

Reading between the lines does that mean our airports are closing then I wonder?

When the markets open in the morning it's going to be a bloodbath given so much has happened over the weekend.

sherology

Fireball81 wrote: »

Reading between the lines does that mean our airports are closing then.

I doubt it but flights will not be easy to get, and unlikely to be direct... And (if you're over there) take what you're offered if and when contacted... keep your phone on, email checked, and make sure the airline has your contact details... (via manage booking on airline website) They're repatriation flights, not pick-and-choose

kevinandrew

I think in the short term a near complete temporary grounding is looking increasingly likely, by next week most flights that aren’t ‘rescue flights’ will be close to empty anyway.

A skeleton network with key European capitals, a few UK services and whatever US gateways are permitted will be in operation.

This will obviously result in the vast majority of staff being temporarily laid off.

In the longer term, assuming the airline survives the crisis, we’ll likely see a restructured operation, a smaller network and fleet but the foundations available to rebuild as consumer confidence returns. This is where the 20-25% reduction in staff numbers seems most realistic.

It’s going to be painful but the airline needs to act soon, it can’t spend the next week limping from day to day.

Pete2k

sherology wrote: »

They're sending 'larger' aircraft down until Thursday according to Simon Convey (regarding repatriation). After Thursday (or soon thereafter) it sounded like they're stopping flights.

I assume in order to do that the A330's are going to be redirected from the transatlantic routes

sherology

Pete2k wrote: »

I assume in order to do that the A330's are going to be redirected from the transatlantic routes

I don't work for the airline, but they have some over capacity in winter, US travel ban kicks in offically tomorrow so routes and frequency will drop immediately (I assume), and they have flexibility with when the flight departs etc. as they don't necessarily need to fly at the scheduled flight times. It'll be EI aircraft one would assume... Nobody's got HiFly money these days... And on that... Goodbye HiFly/Titan et al? There just can't be a business case for these folks now.

Jack1985

Last Minneapolis flight today. Routes with final flights tomorrow are Hartford, Orlando and Philadelphia.

Locker10a

Pete2k wrote: »

I assume in order to do that the A330's are going to be redirected from the transatlantic routes

Some may still do transatlantic for cargo purposes but I would imagine the cabin will be empty

Van.Bosch

Pete2k wrote: »

Maybe they should have kept it an extra day and sent it down to fuerteventura and lanzarote to rescue all the people they abandoned there yesterday.

Who did they abandon? Sounds like they just forcibly dumped people there.

Pete2k

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Who did they abandon? Sounds like they just forcibly dumped people there.

Neither flight operated yesterday so everyone who was due to fly home are still stuck there

Tenger

Pete2k wrote: »

Maybe they should have kept it an extra day and sent it down to fuerteventura and lanzarote to rescue all the people they abandoned there yesterday.

Being unable to land because of ATC restrictions isn't "abandoning people"
They can't just loiter off the coast waiting for permission to land.

Kcormahs

kevinandrew wrote: »

I think in the short term a near complete temporary grounding is looking increasingly likely, by next week most flights that aren’t ‘rescue flights’ will be close to empty anyway.

A skeleton network with key European capitals, a few UK services and whatever US gateways are permitted will be in operation.

This will obviously result in the vast majority of staff being temporarily laid off.

In the longer term, assuming the airline survives the crisis, we’ll likely see a restructured operation, a smaller network and fleet but the foundations available to rebuild as consumer confidence returns. This is where the 20-25% reduction in staff numbers seems most realistic.

It’s going to be painful but the airline needs to act soon, it can’t spend the next week limping from day to day.

And reducing 20%25% would they go for the older staff near retirement or who are on older contracts/more expensive? Or would they go by the newest people in the company? Im sure the law protects who has been working the longest in the airline/seniority? Or would they even go by grade from cabin crew, to senior cabin crew, and cabin managers in EI for example

IE 222

sherology wrote: »

They're sending 'larger' aircraft down until Thursday according to Simon Convey (regarding repatriation). After Thursday (or soon thereafter) it sounded like they're stopping flights.

Thursday, exactly how many people are down there. I really hope we are going to quarantine people coming back from Spain. Its madness to think were going to allow people walk straight out of the airport that have been exposed to this virus for so long especially as the country they are coming from is pretty much in lockdown.

easypazz

IE 222 wrote: »

Thursday, exactly how many people are down there.

About 20000 according to the media.

20000 people who have been in and out of pubs every night for a week or 2.

IE 222

easypazz wrote: »

About 20000 according to the media.

20000 people who have been in and out of pubs every night for a week or 2.

Holidaymakers????

sherology

IE 222 wrote: »

Thursday, exactly how many people are down there. I really hope we are going to quarantine people coming back from Spain. Its madness to think were going to allow people walk straight out of the airport that have been exposed to this virus for so long especially as the country they are coming from is pretty much in lockdown.

Anyone coming into the country from high risk areas are asked to self-isolate for 14 days - they won't of course but nobody take anything seriously here - or anywhere unless there is an actual enforced lockdown. And let's face it... We have no place to put people.

The canaries have pretty low rates of infection - it's sunny and lots of UV light to kill viruses on surfaces. Mainland Spain and Madrid in particular is very high - for the reasons above, and cool/cold winter weather.

The repatriation flights are due to virtually (if not) ALL flights being cancelled on Saturday (many 1000's of people) from Ireland to the canaries due to ATC issues down there, and the returning folks left there (as no planes). Not the fault of EI or FR... And the islands are remote and you can't just take off from IRL with hope in your fuel tanks.

x567

Jack1985 wrote: »

Last Minneapolis flight today. Routes with final flights tomorrow are Hartford, Orlando and Philadelphia.

Any intel’ on the SNN US flights?

IE 222

sherology wrote: »

Anyone coming into the country from high risk areas are asked to self-isolate for 14 days - they won't of course but nobody take anything seriously here - or anywhere unless there is an actual enforced lockdown. And let's face it... We have no place to put people.

The canaries have pretty low rates of infection - it's sunny and lots of UV light to kill viruses on surfaces. Mainland Spain and Madrid in particular is very high - for the reasons above, and cool/cold winter weather.

The repatriation flights are due to virtually (if not) ALL flights being cancelled on Saturday (many 1000's of people) from Ireland to the canaries due to ATC issues down there, and the returning folks left there (as no planes). Not the fault of EI or FR... And the islands are remote and you can't just take off from IRL with hope in your fuel tanks.

Not blaming the airlines but 20k holidaymakers is ridiculous given the circumstances and sure more your willing to go yesterday and even this morning. I didn't think so many people would be that stupid. We should look at holding them in hotels to isolate, surely there is a lot of capacity in hotels at the moment. If they were stupid enough to travel they can't be trusted to self isolate.

Locker10a

IE 222 wrote: »

Not blaming the airlines but 20k holidaymakers is ridiculous given the circumstances and sure more your willing to go yesterday and even this morning. I didn't think so many people would be that stupid. We should look at holding them in hotels to isolate, surely there is a lot of capacity in hotels at the moment. If they were stupid enough to travel they can't be trusted to self isolate.

If the country is in lockdown they won’t have much choice

IE 222

Locker10a wrote: »

If the country is in lockdown they won’t have much choice

I think this needs to be done sooner rather than later.

RexBanner

IE 222 wrote: »

Not blaming the airlines but 20k holidaymakers is ridiculous given the circumstances and sure more your willing to go yesterday and even this morning. I didn't think so many people would be that stupid. We should look at holding them in hotels to isolate, surely there is a lot of capacity in hotels at the moment. If they were stupid enough to travel they can't be trusted to self isolate.

I'm one of those 20k holiday makers so i thought i'd add some context here. We came over 2 weeks ago, if anyone can remember 2 weeks ago the major concern back then was the storms off the atlantic.

We watched nervously as things went downhill over the past week in particular. We we due to fly home yesterday but when i saw that the flight from Ireland hadn't taken off on FR i knew that we were in trouble. We were able to re-book on a flight back on Tuesday so we're lucky, but the only direct comm's we received from AL was a text message saying our flight was cancelled.

Regarding self-isolation there are 3 cases on the island of Lanzarote, there are 9 cases in the county i'm from, including 2 in the next parish over. The reality is that we are actually less of a risk than the friends and family that are at home but, we will self isolate when we get home per the government guidance. We live in the countryside so we'll be able to do that efficently.

Please don't scare-monger or paint everyone with a blunt brush. We're all in this together as Irish people and we'll get through it by working together and supporting each other.

Cosmo Kramer

I think the 20000 figure includes ex-pats and seasonal visitors - a lot of older retired people winter in the Canaries and would have been coming back home at around Easter time.

Nijmegen

I wonder if the evacuation will be a reason to start the gun on harsher lockdown, given other European countries are doing it anyway it might be good to kick it off when we know we’re bringing home sizeable populations of lastminute.com returnees

s8n

Jack1985 wrote: »

Last Minneapolis flight today. Routes with final flights tomorrow are Hartford, Orlando and Philadelphia.

What do you mean final flights tomorrow, are all other flights this week cancelled from these airports ?

WishUWereHere

RexBanner wrote: »

I'm one of those 20k holiday makers so i thought i'd add some context here. We came over 2 weeks ago, if anyone can remember 2 weeks ago the major concern back then was the storms off the atlantic.

We watched nervously as things went downhill over the past week in particular. We we due to fly home yesterday but when i saw that the flight from Ireland hadn't taken off on FR i knew that we were in trouble. We were able to re-book on a flight back on Tuesday so we're lucky, but the only direct comm's we received from AL was a text message saying our flight was cancelled.

Regarding self-isolation there are 3 cases on the island of Lanzarote, there are 9 cases in the county i'm from, including 2 in the next parish over. The reality is that we are actually less of a risk than the friends and family that are at home but, we will self isolate when we get home per the government guidance. We live in the countryside so we'll be able to do that efficently.

Please don't scare-monger or paint everyone with a blunt brush. We're all in this together as Irish people and we'll get through it by working together and supporting each other.

Excellent post. Hope You do get home safely.

Safe travelling and BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!!!

WishUWereHere

s8n wrote: »

What do you mean final flights tomorrow, are all other flights this week cancelled from these airports ?

As I understand the situation, transatlantic flights will be no more ( under the current situation) after 04h00 Tuesday morning!

riddles

WishUWereHere wrote: »

As I understand the situation, transatlantic flights will be no more ( under the current situation) after 04h00 Tuesday morning!

Does the US Irish travel ban mean you are entitled to a full refund on an Aer Lingus flight to the US due to go out next Monday?

Jack1985

Services to BDL, MCO, MSP and PHL have been suspended as they are not approved airports by the DHS for landing protocols now required in the US for detection purposes.

EI will continue to operate as long as possible to repatriate on remaining routes they are able to operate on, its just a waiting game now to see when eventually the group as a whole is forced to ground the fleet. The effect is cataclysmic on airlines.

sherology

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Excellent post. Hope You do get home safely.

Safe travelling and BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!!!

Here-here. You'll spot the AerLingus queue at the airport as the line will be really compact and all the trolleys and suitcases will will be full of toilet paper and 'bimbo' brand sliced bread - more fiber in the toilet paper

Safe flight #bekind #behelpful or #bequiet

And now... Back to fleet stuff!!!

F

Jamie2k9

IAG are cutting capacity by 75% (minimum) in April and May so guess most of EI will be grounded until 1 June. Walsh to stay on longer than planned.

Jack1985

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

IAG are cutting capacity by 75% (minimum) in April and May so guess most of EI will be grounded until 1 June. Walsh to stay on longer than planned.

It's the best way to protect the organization's unfortunately I had alluded to as much yesterday. These are horrendous times for everyone,

it's gut wrenching.

Nibs05

Is the 757 finished ?

Also a side note, from working in the airport over the last few years it’s been amazing to see the growth, I was looking forward to a bumper summer. Now it seems inevitable that I’ll loose my job and probably many others. We will fight this and I wish everyone the best in future.

FionnK86

Nibs05 wrote: »

Is the 757 finished ?

Also a side note, from working in the airport over the last few years it’s been amazing to see the growth, I was looking forward to a bumper summer. Now it seems inevitable that I’ll loose my job and probably many others. We will fight this and I wish everyone the best in future.

Head up. There are many of us who are at risk of losing our jobs.

This virus will pass & the people of Ireland will want to travel even more so than before.

Be ready to support the effort when your time comes.

JCX BXC

FionnK86 wrote: »

This virus will pass & the people of Ireland will want to travel even more so than before.

How can you say this?

Cookiemunster

JCX BXC wrote: »

How can you say this?

Because the virus will pass and people who been cooped up for months will be desperate to get away.

FionnK86

JCX BXC wrote: »

How can you say this?

Traffic evolution is statistically correlated to economic growth.

Economy will bounce back.

Nijmegen

JCX BXC wrote: »

How can you say this?

This is clearly an unprecedented type of event, but recessions are not unprecedented in and of themselves. This one will take some special actions to fix the economy but when we come out the other side it will be ok.

JCX BXC

There's larger psychological issues at play here too, this isn't simply a recession, nor is it a 9/11.

Eventually yeah I'm sure the numbers will bounce back and increase, as is the natural trend, but I don't think you can say people all of a sudden WILL travel again and in larger numbers, that's a matter of opinion.

Nijmegen

JCX BXC wrote: »

There's larger psychological issues at play here too, this isn't simply a recession, nor is it a 9/11.

Eventually yeah I'm sure the numbers will bounce back and increase, as is the natural trend, but I don't think you can say people all of a sudden WILL travel again and in larger numbers, that's a matter of opinion.

None of us know how long it will take, for sure. But it will occur.

Locker10a

JCX BXC wrote: »

There's larger psychological issues at play here too, this isn't simply a recession, nor is it a 9/11.

Eventually yeah I'm sure the numbers will bounce back and increase, as is the natural trend, but I don't think you can say people all of a sudden WILL travel again and in larger numbers, that's a matter of opinion.

As long as O’Leary and the LCC are around you’ll see good numbers flying (once this passes over) not all airlines will survive but the ones with deep pockets hopefully will and the likes of O’Leary will be having seat sales like never before to restore people’s travel desires

Spleerbun

riddles wrote: »

Does the US Irish travel ban mean you are entitled to a full refund on an Aer Lingus flight to the US due to go out next Monday?

Was also wondering this. When the ban came in was expecting this to be the case, but their website so far it just let's you change the flight for no extra fee.

Now I'm wondering if the flight will still go with just American passengers and they can get out of refunding Irish people that way?

x567

Spleerbun wrote: »

Was also wondering this. When the ban came in was expecting this to be the case, but their website so far it just let's you change the flight for no extra fee.

Now I'm wondering if the flight will still go with just American passengers and they can get out of refunding Irish people that way?

Eventually they'll run out of Americans...

And I'm pretty sure EI aren't that cynical anyway. To be fair to them they need some time to get to grips with what's happening as the situation develops and to react appropriately. I'm sure that those of us with affected bookings will be communicated with (either directly or via published instructions on what to do on-line) and dealt with in a manner that's reasonable given the circumstances.

OU812

Nijmegen wrote: »

This is clearly an unprecedented type of event, but recessions are not unprecedented in and of themselves. This one will take some special actions to fix the economy but when we come out the other side it will be ok.

Would love to see a 30 year version of that chart