Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Van.Bosch

riddles wrote: »

any ideas when aer Lingus will make a statement about May June flights to northern Italy. I’m sure I’m not alone in feeling the level of tragedy there makes holidays totally insignificant. It would be good if they offered clear guidance on this so accomadation providers could react with respect to remaining balances etc.

Within the northern Italian region even they are the midst of their challenge right now they will want to rebound economically at the earliest opportunity but when this would be and what rebound means is the question. Prospective visitors would like to show solidarity with them but at same time the outcome at the moment is unknown. I guess end of March the infection trend lines give a greater idea what the next phase will look like. Clearly the bogus data China has presented to the world has not helped in the least for other countries to focus their citizens on how serious this will be.

I’d say Northern Italy will be impacted severely for years in terms of tourism. I doubt Aer Lingus will be flying there until July/August at the earliest

Pete2k

Aer Lingus to provide cargo flights between China and Ireland to bring back medical supplies/equipment according to Simon Coveney.

rameire

Pete2k wrote: »

Aer Lingus to provide cargo flights between China and Ireland to bring back medical supplies/equipment according to Simon Coveney.

Yup. Up to 6 times a day I am told.

Locker10a

Also being reported EI will operate a repatriation charter to Lima, Peru

goingnowhere

Locker10a wrote: »

Also being reported EI will operate a repatriation charter to Lima, Peru

BA are operating the charter.

WishUWereHere

rameire wrote: »

Yup. Up to 6 times a day I am told.

Seriously? WOW.

goingnowhere

EI are planning to fly to China to pick up the hundreds of million of euro of medical gear.

Its fairly light but not compact so lots of flights. Gets it here as quick as possible, avoids risk of stuff going missing on transfer, UK is having issues with the French impounding trucks with medical gear.


Going to have to be A330-200's for the range, but if they are willing to fly via Qatar (no visa issues or restrictions and friends of IAG who own EI) or elsewhere the -300 could go

EchoIndia

goingnowhere wrote: »

EI are planning to fly to China to pick up the hundreds of million of euro of medical gear.

Its fairly light but not compact so lots of flights. Gets it here as quick as possible, avoids risk of stuff going missing on transfer, UK is having issues with the French impounding trucks with medical gear.


Going to have to be A330-200's for the range, but if they are willing to fly via Qatar (no visa issues or restrictions and friends of IAG who own EI) or elsewhere the -300 could go

Hainan already flew A333s to Dublin from China last year. Are the EI ones less capable?

PinOnTheRight

EchoIndia wrote: »

Hainan already flew A333s to Dublin from China last year. Are the EI ones less capable?

I think there are variations in the -300 fleet with different MTOWs, some up to 242,000kg? Not sure what range they’d have eastbound when practically empty.

basill

Still wind is just under 5,100nm from Dublin-Shanghai. Beijing is less at 4,502nm. Range of the 300 HGW according to wiki is 5,940nm but that would presumably assume a higher MTOW than only having belly cargo. The newer A330-300s would easily make it. The 200s would too.

NH2013

EchoIndia wrote: »

Hainan already flew A333s to Dublin from China last year. Are the EI ones less capable?

EI A330-300HGWs 242T MTOW aircraft should definitely be capable with only Cargo loads and no passengers. No reason it shouldn't work direct to Beijing.

WishUWereHere

NH2013 wrote: »

EI A330-300HGWs 242T MTOW aircraft should definitely be capable with only Cargo loads and no passengers. No reason it shouldn't work direct to Beijing.

When do these 6 per day flights start? And is Beijing the destination?

GREAT to see AL being used like this!

sherology

WishUWereHere wrote: »

When do these 6 per day flights start? And is Beijing the destination?

GREAT to see AL being used like this!

It is indeed. Those big bellies coming in useful in times like these. That's a lot of the LH fleet in use then. I think you might find EI cargo being called into action more than ever as airlines ground fleets (and their belly-cargo), large international/interline airlines included (Emirates grounding entire fleet from March 25 - that's a lot of belly space from Aisa) etc.

We do a lot of trade in Ireland for a small island, and with only EI having a large cargo operation... It could be it's saving grace. Good luck shamrock

marno21

Even with all the belly space, China Eastern have been re-purposing the passenger cabins of some of their 777 and A330s

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1241546916963348480

sherology

marno21 wrote: »

Even with all the belly space, China Eastern have been re-purposing the passenger cabins of some of their 777 and A330s

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1241546916963348480

Maybe EI can pick up some of those nets when in China. The medical equipment/tests/PPE is very light. Using the seats and/or the overhead bins would be very cost-effective. Weights and balance calculations would be similar to passenger loads (I would assume lighter than passengers). No cabin crew or cabin passengers to worry about... airline shown landing in EU... Safe and EASA approved method therefore?

sparrowcar

marno21 wrote: »

Even with all the belly space, China Eastern have been re-purposing the passenger cabins of some of their 777 and A330s

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1241546916963348480

How are they getting those pallets in through the passenger doors?

sherology

sparrowcar wrote: »

How are they getting those pallets in through the passenger doors?

Look closer... The boxes are netted to the seats

LXFlyer

sparrowcar wrote: »

How are they getting those pallets in through the passenger doors?

One box at a time presumably. They’re not on pallets but are on the seats.

goingnowhere

Thats good old fashioned human chain to load the stuff via all available doors

kona

sherology wrote: »

Maybe EI can pick up some of those nets when in China. The medical equipment/tests/PPE is very light. Using the seats and/or the overhead bins would be very cost-effective. Weights and balance calculations would be similar to passenger loads (I would assume lighter than passengers). No cabin crew or cabin passengers to worry about... airline shown landing in EU... Safe and EASA approved method therefore?

Id say some sort of crew will be required to secure the cabin.

sherology

kona wrote: »

Id say some sort of crew will be required to secure the cabin.

If so, they'd be safe in the business cabin separated from the economy cabins by a double galley... So... Safe to carry cargo like this in EU-land? I ask as earlier this week there were posts stating this type of cargo carrying would need recertification/paperwork type stuff. Assume that this (China Eastern) approach is possible as the aircraft shown were landing in the EU.

NH2013

kona wrote: »

Id say some sort of crew will be required to secure the cabin.

Could probably be done between the cargo loaders and the pilots on the flight, don't see why they'd need a cabin crew person to be involved in a cargo operation.

goingnowhere

EI has strapped stuff down to seats before for emergency aid shipments to disaster areas.

I'd guess you would send out 2 captains, 2 senior FO's + a engineer to manage the job and loading. You don't want to get stuck down country at location like Shenzhen through illness or a tech issue.

nsa0bupkd3948x

Has it been announced when the first of these flights will happen?

WishUWereHere

marno21 wrote: »

Even with all the belly space, China Eastern have been re-purposing the passenger cabins of some of their 777 and A330s

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1241546916963348480

I have just glanced the Twitter page mentioned above. On it, it says Wizz air flying from Budapest to Shanghai for medical supplies, 2 Austrian Airlines 777's flying to Xiamen for medical supplies, an Antonov 124 with 106 tons of medical supplies on its way from Shenzhen to Pardubice via Karachi.

Anyone know where AL are flying to? Or perhaps it's more than one City/Airport?

kona

NH2013 wrote: »

Could probably be done between the cargo loaders and the pilots on the flight, don't see why they'd need a cabin crew person to be involved in a cargo operation.

Training with fire and evacuation procedures, arm and disarm of doors, making tea:pac:

A cargo loader would require training for the above.

kona

sherology wrote: »

If so, they'd be safe in the business cabin separated from the economy cabins by a double galley... So... Safe to carry cargo like this in EU-land? I ask as earlier this week there were posts stating this type of cargo carrying would need recertification/paperwork type stuff. Assume that this (China Eastern) approach is possible as the aircraft shown were landing in the EU.

Yes it would need recertification if the seats were removed, also china eastern are not under easa so would fall under the chinese authority and their rules and regulations, which are obviously deemed by easa to be acceptable to operate into the eu. Easa have the power to spot check these airlines as part of audits done to ensure their standards are acceptable to easa.Just because they operate into the eu doesnt mean that they operate to easa standards for maintenace or flight ops. For example aer lingus will be operating into china under their easa and iaa approved aoc, not under a chinese one.

Removing seats etc would require a modification to be issued by either a p21 or the type certificate holder to be carrried out under a easa 145 maintenance organisation, such modifications cost a absoloute fortune.

Pete2k

Reece Embarrassed Judo wrote: »

Has it been announced when the first of these flights will happen?

I think Coveney said later this week

rameire

Reece Embarrassed Judo wrote: »

Has it been announced when the first of these flights will happen?

Saturday.

sherology

kona wrote: »

Yes it would need recertification if the seats were removed, also china eastern are not under easa so would fall under the chinese authority and their rules and regulations, which are obviously deemed by easa to be acceptable to operate into the eu. Easa have the power to spot check these airlines as part of audits done to ensure their standards are acceptable to easa.Just because they operate into the eu doesnt mean that they operate to easa standards for maintenace or flight ops. For example aer lingus will be operating into china under their easa and iaa approved aoc, not under a chinese one.

Removing seats etc would require a modification to be issued by either a p21 or the type certificate holder to be carrried out under a easa 145 maintenance organisation, such modifications cost a absoloute fortune.

And without removal of seats as in the shown example (boxes netted to the seats)... That's okay to do?

kona

sherology wrote: »

And without removal of seats as in the shown example (boxes netted to the seats)... That's okay to do?

Yup as long as the boxes dont exceed the 80kg or so per pax thats used for weight and balance, and the cargo nets are approved for use with the seats and have burn certs then fire away.
As i said it would require cabin crew or another suitably qualified person(s) to secure the cabin for fire safety and to ensure nothing has moved. The removal and installation of the nets would have to be signed off by a type approved engineer.

So nothing to stop ei from doing it.

NH2013

kona wrote: »

Training with fire and evacuation procedures, arm and disarm of doors, making tea:pac:

A cargo loader would require training for the above.

Surely the pilots would be trained in all of the above, even making their own tea? :pac:

All cargo airlines like Fed-Ex or CargoLux hardly have cabin crew, just pilots on board? Can't see an Aer Lingus cargo operation being any different, even if it meant having to make their own tea.

kona

NH2013 wrote: »

Surely the pilots would be trained in all of the above, even making their own tea? :pac:

All cargo airlines like Fed-Ex or CargoLux hardly have cabin crew, just pilots on board? Can't see an Aer Lingus cargo operation being any different, even if it meant having to make their own tea.

Have to be 2 persons in the cockpit at all times after german wings. Aer lingus wont be operating under a cargo aoc, so im not entirely sure how it will work. I do know that when 330s operate for base maintenance theres 3 onboard.

goingnowhere

You don't need to lock the cockpit if there are no one onboard...

Flight time would require a third pilot, so they do a cabin secure. Depending on the handling available you might send a engineer out to supervise loading and to do the release as you need a line inspection every 48 hours

NH2013

kona wrote: »

Have to be 2 persons in the cockpit at all times after german wings. Aer lingus wont be operating under a cargo aoc, so im not entirely sure how it will work. I do know that when 330s operate for base maintenance theres 3 onboard.

Don't think that applies to cargo flights, only passenger ones, aircraft are regularly flown by just two pilots in Aer Lingus I believe when being repositioned or going to or from maintenance.

basill

Why close the door at all? It’s usually left open with no pax onboard.

Also lets not get caught up in all this bluster about rules and regulations. There are various alleviation’s happening on an almost daily basis given the current situation. This is about the preservation of life, saving of airlines is a very distant secondary goal. The regulators are thankfully singing from the same hymn sheet.

sherology

goingnowhere wrote: »

You don't need to lock the cockpit if there are no one onboard...

Flight time would require a third pilot, so they do a cabin secure. Depending on the handling available you might send a engineer out to supervise loading and to do the release as you need a line inspection every 48 hours

One might assume, with the availability of crew and engineers etc., and reduced working hours etc. they'd send plenty of assistance (wouldn't be tight-wads that is).

IngazZagni

kona wrote: »

Have to be 2 persons in the cockpit at all times after german wings. Aer lingus wont be operating under a cargo aoc, so im not entirely sure how it will work. I do know that when 330s operate for base maintenance theres 3 onboard.

Rubbish. Why do I have to keep saying this? It is not an EASA rule. It is required in certain circumstances such as not having cctv with passengers on board and some airlines have it as part of their own rules.

Positioning flights with 2 pilots happen all the time. So is one of them not allowed to go to the toilet?

donkey balls

The likes of FedEx get catering delivered to the aircraft for the flight crew normally 2/3 meals and unlimited drinks the meals cannot be the same just like pax operating flights.
In the galley they have microwave/oven and water for making tea/coffee, On the MD11/MD10 if there is 3 crew flying normally the Capt will take his rest first with the RFO taking his seat and they just rotate.
Cockpit door normally stays open and the lads change into t shirts and shorts.
The MD11 still have 2/3 biz class seats in them and behind it would be the fire door and g net.
My mate was telling me that each aircraft on landing is disinfected with some spray approved by Boeing,

billy few mates

kona wrote: »

Yup as long as the boxes dont exceed the 80kg or so per pax thats used for weight and balance, and the cargo nets are approved for use with the seats and have burn certs then fire away.
As i said it would require cabin crew or another suitably qualified person(s) to secure the cabin for fire safety and to ensure nothing has moved. The removal and installation of the nets would have to be signed off by a type approved engineer.

So nothing to stop ei from doing it.

Strictly speaking I'm not sure it would be allowed in normal circumstances but then again these aren't normal circumstances so I'd imagine the authorities would exercise a fair degree of 'social distancing' when it comes to policing the finer details of something like this for the foreseeable future.

billy few mates

donkey balls wrote: »

The likes of FedEx get catering delivered to the aircraft for the flight crew normally 2/3 meals and unlimited drinks the meals cannot be the same just like pax operating flights.
In the galley they have microwave/oven and water for making tea/coffee, On the MD11/MD10 if there is 3 crew flying normally the Capt will take his rest first with the RFO taking his seat and they just rotate.
Cockpit door normally stays open and the lads change into t shirts and shorts.
The MD11 still have 2/3 biz class seats in them and behind it would be the fire door and g net.
My mate was telling me that each aircraft on landing is disinfected with some spray approved by Boeing,

A microwave...?

donkey balls

billy few mates wrote: »

A microwave...?

Yep a Microwave/oven how else are the cree to get up the meals.

kona

IngazZagni wrote: »

Rubbish. Why do I have to keep saying this? It is not an EASA rule. It is required in certain circumstances such as not having cctv with passengers on board and some airlines have it as part of their own rules.

Positioning flights with 2 pilots happen all the time. So is one of them not allowed to go to the toilet?

Never said anything about a easa rule, these also are not positioning flights.

basill

donkey balls wrote: »

The likes of FedEx get catering delivered to the aircraft for the flight crew normally 2/3 meals and unlimited drinks the meals cannot be the same just like pax operating flights.
In the galley they have microwave/oven and water for making tea/coffee, On the MD11/MD10 if there is 3 crew flying normally the Capt will take his rest first with the RFO taking his seat and they just rotate.
Cockpit door normally stays open and the lads change into t shirts and shorts.
The MD11 still have 2/3 biz class seats in them and behind it would be the fire door and g net.
My mate was telling me that each aircraft on landing is disinfected with some spray approved by Boeing,

Some of that might be true on a "plain vanilla" day but like everything in aviation it depends. No captain worth their salt is going to let a relief crew fly through a forecast area of mod/sev turbulence whilst they are resting the baby blues (aka AF447), nor will they let them deal with the nuances of flying around the war zones of the M/E that will more than likely come into play flying to China. Navigating through some of these hot spots involve having multiple radios on the go at the same time with both civilian and military controllers as well as vhf/hf. Then there are the "hills" to get across and the various escape routes that will need to be briefed in case of an emergency descent. Not the sort of thing a captain would leave the youngins to deal with by themselves. On the day it will depend on the crew, the experience levels, heavy versus augmented etc etc.

mikel97

ASL Airlines will hold their hands all along the way (if and if) EI will actually carry out a few China flights. ASL already have extensive experience operating the A330 in China, and their latest addition EI-HEE flies into Dublin from East Midlands late tonite.

donkey balls

Yep I know what you mean regarding AF447 this flight was a regular flight US to Europe WX wise nothing like what the AF447 crew would.have encountered.

Irish Steve

Those of you worrying about ME war zones, have a look at the great circle from Dublin to Beijing. It goes out of Ireland over Finland, then Russia. Nowhere near most of the "hot spots". Just over 4500 Nm, so should not be a problem.

Kcormahs

UK government buying a big stake in BA... still no word from the Irish gov about aer lingus or ryanair... and if they do who would they pick? Crazy to think all the governments in Europe are in talks with their airlines for state aid and Leo And friends havent mentioned it once

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/simpleflying.com/uk-government-airline-stakes/amp/

Lapmo_Dancer

basill wrote: »

nor will they let them deal with the nuances of flying around the war zones of the M/E that will more than likely come into play flying to China. Navigating through some of these hot spots involve having multiple radios on the go at the same time with both civilian and military controllers as well as vhf/hf. Then there are the "hills" to get across and the various escape routes that will need to be briefed in case of an emergency descent.

Yep, have a look at the globe or filter Air China in flight radar and you’ll see that the track of all their European flights wouldn’t be remotely close to the Middle East.

cson

Kcormahs wrote: »

UK government buying a big stake in BA... still no word from the Irish gov about aer lingus or ryanair... and if they do who would they pick? Crazy to think all the governments in Europe are in talks with their airlines for state aid and Leo And friends havent mentioned it once

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/simpleflying.com/uk-government-airline-stakes/amp/

*buying a stake in IAG, of which EI are a part of thus they'd be 'bailed out' as it were by Boris & Co.

FR can last til ~the end of the year per MOL recently.