Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Graham

Kcormahs wrote: »

UK government buying a big stake in BA... still no word from the Irish gov about aer lingus or ryanair... and if they do who would they pick? Crazy to think all the governments in Europe are in talks with their airlines for state aid and Leo And friends havent mentioned it once

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/simpleflying.com/uk-government-airline-stakes/amp/

It's no more than a contingency plan under consideration:

the government of the United Kingdom is considering buying a stake in British Airways and other UK based airlines.

goingnowhere

Graham wrote: »

It's no more than a contingency plan under consideration:

And if Ryanair claims it can hold out for 12 months, IAG with 9 billion in the bank should be good for a significant period.

EI will be generating revenue on the China trips if only to pay the lease costs it’s money in the bag, 200-300k a trip? Sure BA and IB will get similar taskings

Jack1985

cson wrote: »

*buying a stake in IAG, of which EI are a part of thus they'd be 'bailed out' as it were by Boris & Co.

FR can last til ~the end of the year per MOL recently.

IAG aren't looking for Government money (they have €9bn + largest cash reserves in the EU), sounds like a typical Tory MP off on one.

The governments primary task at this stage is fighting the serious public health issue attacking the citizens of this country. Not worrying about well funded highly profitable private companies.

I’d also highly recommend posters first read the articles they are linking to before they go off on rants. It would help avoid the spread of fake news in this current situation.

EI321

The idea of the UK now bailing out EU airlines would be somewhat Ironic.

trellheim

Indeed, IAG is a Spanish company run by an Irishman , with three spanish(IB, Vueling, Air Europa) , one irish (EI), and one uk (BA) airlines in its portfolio

Tenger

rameire wrote: »

Yup. Up to 6 times a day I am told.

I seriously doubt that.
Most probably there will be 6 trips total.

sailing

Tenger wrote: »

I seriously doubt that.
Most probably there will be 6 trips total.

60 flights required initially

Nijmegen

I was reading somewhere yesterday that the HSEs annual budget for personal protective equipment was previously €15m, and they've spent €60m year to date. They're looking to scale up an additional 10,000 beds in temporary hospitals. I imagine there's a lot of other line items shooting up. Lot of kit to move that likely normally comes in slow on container ships. And possibly not all arriving from the factories to the airport at the same convenient time. You could well imagine the government wanting a direct cargo run to those factory cities given the logistical constraints imposed by countries that are effectively dipping in for themselves. With EI doing the runs we know that short of the plane getting impounded somewhere on a tech stop, we can get it out reliably.

Tenger

sailing wrote: »

60 flights required initially

I stand corrected so.
I read the IT article and it’s doesn’t specify numbers.
Where did you see the figure of 60?

goingnowhere

Thats a going to be a huge chunk of cash for Shamrock House to keep the lights on.

LeakRate

First flight 28th March, up to 5 daily by 31st, DUB-PEK, 660tons initial, 50-60 flights, with up to 5 of these over the next 2 months

sherology

goingnowhere wrote: »

Thats a going to be a huge chunk of cash for Shamrock House to keep the lights on.

And paying the airline for a service they can offer, using staff and resources, and the airport, is a lot better than any cash handouts etc. being bounced about. Good news for them in the this bloody disaster.

I hope EI promo this as a little good news from bad to get this 'ability' out there and generate some more business.

Sexual Chocolate

From looking at FR24 the last few days it looks as if EI are only using 5-6 330s with all of the 200s grounded.

omega man

LeakRate wrote: »

First flight 28th March, up to 5 daily by 31st, DUB-PEK, 660tons initial, 50-60 flights, with up to 5 of these over the next 2 months

This is correct information.

Nijmegen

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

From looking at FR24 the last few days it looks as if EI are only using 5-6 330s with all of the 200s grounded.

EI-DUO just took off to SFO. Scheduled 1235 and took off at 1218 so I imagine not very pax heavy!

Van.Bosch

LeakRate wrote: »

First flight 28th March, up to 5 daily by 31st, DUB-PEK, 660tons initial, 50-60 flights, with up to 5 of these over the next 2 months

Should that be up to 50 over next 2 months? If one is 28th and up 5 daily for 31st that’s 6 already?

Or am I an idiot and reading that wrong?

basill

The block times are unclear at the moment, flight time is roughly 10.30 eastbound. When it gets up to 5 daily departures next week there will obviously be some returning aircraft still in the air so this will consume a large proportion of the A330 fleet. Initial talk is that the turnaround would be 6hrs reducing to just a couple of hours and then the aircraft is gone again. A lot will depend on the level of manpower to load the aircraft.

NEOs may be needed to head west again.

donkey balls

Whose paying for the 330 to head to China ? Haven't seen anything in the media about the flights, Good PR for EI anywsy.

Sexual Chocolate

Tax payer I'd assume. Since its to bring in medical supplies I'm all for it and I'd like to think so is every other tax payer.

d51984

The Irish government paying Ide presume.

donkey balls

Surprised they didnt get CargoLux or other freighter companies to do it.Was reading that some freighter outfits had seen a decline in freight from China.

pclive

donkey balls wrote: »

Surprised they didnt get CargoLux or other freighter companies to do it.Was reading that some freighter outfits had seen a decline in freight from China.

Because the Gov want Aer Lingus to be still in business in three months time.

Locker10a

pclive wrote: »

Because the Gov want Aer Lingus to be still in business in three months time.

Yeah, how many Irish jobs would Aer Lingus support vs an outsider cargo airline. They have local employees a aircraft now doing nothing, might as well be put to use

donkey balls

pclive wrote: »

Because the Gov want Aer Lingus to be still in business in three months time.

This is not a dig at EI I also want to see them come through the other side of this situation we all find ourselves in, I was just wondering why in the mean time had they not started the ball rolling in shipping in the supplies.
Getting the customs import/export paperwork in order have the FBO in place etc.

easypazz

Technically I think the government should be putting these contracts out to tender but I guess they (rightly) bent the rules in this instance.

Sexual Chocolate

easypazz wrote: »

Technically I think the government should be putting these contracts out to tender but I guess they (rightly) bent the rules in this instance.

Why so that some other airline from a different country could make money while our own main airline heads towards cliff ?

goingnowhere

There are no rules currently, so do what you need to do. It's green jersey time, no one else realistically is available.

Cargolux has 26 aircraft, all busy.

EI can muster a large fleet of A330's tomorrow, ok so not freight aircraft they have a huge hold and as has been shown the Chinese are happy to strap stuff down in the passenger seats. Austrian flew two flights yesterday in that config into Vienna.

The order was only placed fairly recently so EI will apparently start flying out to PEK as soon as there is something to collect and will keep flying until its all back home. Chinese government is in the loop so the paperwork is pointless if an edict is issued to permit EI (and multiple other EU flag carriers) to fly in to collect medical supplies.

mikel97

How many stops will they have to make you think 1/2? I see the union signed off on it which is good, need people not afraid of bit of work. Good for IAG. What plane will they use 321? 330?

Pat Dunne

easypazz wrote: »

Technically I think the government should be putting these contracts out to tender but I guess they (rightly) bent the rules in this instance.

In times of emergency, the State can do anything it pleases.

marno21

Stobart seem to be using Kerry for storage; 4 ATRs already there, 1 E190 and another 190 inbound from Edinburgh

goingnowhere

mikel97 wrote: »

How many stops will they have to make you think 1/2? I see the union signed off on it which is good, need people not afraid of bit of work. Good for IAG. What plane will they use 321? 330?

A330-300 likely for maximum capacity, light but bulky cargo so weight shouldn't be an issue.

If EI pull the crew rest module out can get a 2 more containers in the hold, crew can use the business class cabin for rest which is a lot quieter than than the underfloor cave

sherology

donkey balls wrote: »

This is not a dig at EI I also want to see them come through the other side of this situation we all find ourselves in, I was just wondering why in the mean time had they not started the ball rolling in shipping in the supplies.
Getting the customs import/export paperwork in order have the FBO in place etc.

Sourcing the supplies (in the quantities needed), getting them made, packaged, delivered to PEK, and then ready to be loaded. PPE is like gold dust right now. EI could go sooner no doubt but they would have nothing to pick up.

omega man

goingnowhere wrote: »

A330-300 likely for maximum capacity, light but bulky cargo so weight shouldn't be an issue.

If EI pull the crew rest module out can get a 2 more containers in the hold, crew can use the business class cabin for rest which is a lot quieter than than the underfloor cave

Business class seat rest will be used.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Stobart seem to be using Kerry for storage; 4 ATRs already there, 1 E190 and another 190 inbound from Edinburgh

All bar two ATRs will be parked in Kerry.

goingnowhere

fishy_fishy wrote: »

Want to actually receive the goods...

• Lets imagine you have to transit via a third country
• Takes longer
• Will they even let your stuff land
• Will your stuff get 'requisitioned' by that country if things are dire (we might all be happy clappy Europeans but all bets are off today)
• Direct shipping non stop with our 'flag carrier' ensures it gets home and its an awful lot easier for diplomatic negotiations if the Irish send an Irish aircraft in green with a Shamrock and tricolour out instead of relying on a third party.
• Given the current surge in demand odds EI are asking for a lot less than the open market rate today as they want to stay afloat and any help now will be looked on with thanks if the begging bowl for support later is needed. Unclear how many flights could be needed but it a lot of flying and having EI ready to go when the call comes instead of having to wait around is priceless

To Ryanair's credit they are offering the entire fleet and crew to any EU state needing aircraft but 737's are limited in cargo and range vs A330 which can carry the weight of a 737 itself (well the -F model can) This operation requires volume over weight

fishy_fishy

goingnowhere wrote: »

• Lets imagine you have to transit via a third country
• Takes longer
• Will they even let your stuff land
• Will your stuff get 'requisitioned' by that country if things are dire (we might all be happy clappy Europeans but all bets are off today)
• Direct shipping non stop with our 'flag carrier' ensures it gets home and its an awful lot easier for diplomatic negotiations if the Irish send an Irish aircraft in green with a Shamrock and tricolour out instead of relying on a third party. Given the current surge in demand odds EI are asking for a lot less than the open market rate today as they want to stay afloat and any help now will be looked on with thanks if the begging bowl for support later is needed

That's my point...

Tenger

Jack1985 wrote: »

Dublin

Los Angeles suspended from 20/03
Miami suspended from 20/03
Newark suspended from 18/03
Seattle suspended from 19/03
Washington Dulles suspended from 19/03

Services that have already been suspended are Hartford, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Orlando and Philadelphia.

Routes to continue at the current time are Boston, Chicago, New York JFK and San Francisco with varying frequencies which are subject to change.

Shannon

Boston suspended from 20/03
New York JFK suspended from 18/03

Just quoting this message that was posted last week by Jack1985 to give it some visibility.
5 TA route leave lots of spare A330 for a cargo bridge to China.
The last 3 deliveries are all the 252T HGW model (or is it 242T?)

goingnowhere

Last 6 are HGW 242T,
2 are registered for a lower weight and no crew rest
4 are registered for a full weight and crew rest (1 is in Brussels on fit out)

Nijmegen

Does the weight registration actually matter at this point if the aircraft has the performance? I know there has been a fair bit of "what about x or y regulation" in this thread, but as we're clearly seeing the rules are going out the window at speed in response to the fairly urgent need across countries, even in the regulation obsessed EU, to create air bridges for stuff that likely usually travels at much lower quantities by air or by slowmo sea. As long as the fuel tanks will take her there...

blackwhite

Nijmegen wrote: »

Does the weight registration actually matter at this point if the aircraft has the performance? I know there has been a fair bit of "what about x or y regulation" in this thread, but as we're clearly seeing the rules are going out the window at speed in response to the fairly urgent need across countries, even in the regulation obsessed EU, to create air bridges for stuff that likely usually travels at much lower quantities by air or by slowmo sea. As long as the fuel tanks will take her there...

Nobody wants an aircraft potentially crashing on take-off because it's overloaded. Severely doubt certifications would be waived

joeysoap

Slightly off topic. Last week AL and RY announced they were putting staff on 50% pay from April. Wlll this 70% up to 38k gross allow the carriers to increase their pay offers or is it too early (and complicated) for a large company to operate?50% is relatively easy to implement.

Nijmegen

blackwhite wrote: »

Nobody wants an aircraft potentially crashing on take-off because it's overloaded. Severely doubt certifications would be waived

Not suggesting that. More thinking the nominal weight that affects MTOW - ie, many aircraft are down on paper for a lower weight, which lowers all sorts of fees they pay for ATC and airports, but can be upweighted again with some paperwork as required. Just suggesting that if it's the difference between one of the EI birds carrying a full belly or not so long as its within her actual engineered performance envelope, the weight restrictions might well be added to the "ignore for now" list.

OU812

joeysoap wrote: »

Slightly off topic. Last week AL and RY announced they were putting staff on 50% pay from April. Wlll this 70% up to 38k gross allow the carriers to increase their pay offers or is it too early (and complicated) for a large company to operate?50% is relatively easy to implement.

Could they potentially have everyone back full time, claiming only 50% subsidy from government & paying the other 50% themselves?

Obviously in the case of crew, there's nothing for them to do but there could be other areas they could be deployed

Nijmegen

OU812 wrote: »

Could they potentially have everyone back full time, claiming only 50% subsidy from government & paying the other 50% themselves?

Obviously in the case of crew, there's nothing for them to do but there could be other areas they could be deployed

The subsidy tops out at €410 per week, €21k net per year. I imagine they could bridge a lot of people’s wages with that but not pilots etc. But I think you have to be out of work to get it all or else it’s pro-rata per day.

Coil Kilcrea

Nijmegen wrote: »

The subsidy tops out at €410 per week, €21k net per year. I imagine they could bridge a lot of people’s wages with that but not pilots etc. But I think you have to be out of work to get it all or else it’s pro-rata per day.

It’s hard to figure out how it works but significant that both EI and FR went down the 50% route (no pun intended). Here’s hoping that the support makes a difference to those who need it most.

Jamie2k9

They could police social distancing in Shamrock House :P

Nijmegen

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

It’s hard to figure out how it works but significant that both EI and FR went down the 50% route (no pun intended). Here’s hoping that the support makes a difference to those who need it most.

It’s about workforce stickiness. Airlines need to train and certify and get security clearance for a great majority of their workforce. You simply cannot scale the business back up if you do as a pub might and send everyone packing.

joeysoap

Nijmegen wrote: »

The subsidy tops out at €410 per week, €21k net per year. I imagine they could bridge a lot of people’s wages with that but not pilots etc. But I think you have to be out of work to get it all or else it’s pro-rata per day.

I think that you gave to be employed to get it. Not necessarily working all the time, but employed just the same. In short, not let go, kept on the books for the upturn.

Tenger

The A330 fleet is gonna be very busy next week