Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Nibs05

Is there any sort of schedule yet for the Chinese flights.

SAM SO NITE

Stovepipe wrote: »

Is that what you think? Engineers are last in the food chain in EI,so think again.

it was sarcastic. the fact i mentioned SRT barriers might be a wink to the fact I'm in the know.

Stovepipe

I get that you're a sweat but Ts and Cs for engineers are still not good in EI. I wont elaborate here but if you have friends in EI,ask them.

kona

Stovepipe wrote: »

I get that you're a sweat but Ts and Cs for engineers are still not good in EI. I wont elaborate here but if you have friends in EI,ask them.

Great money for a mechanic or a catA.

Lapmo_Dancer

Tenger wrote: »

Well the 50% cut in salary and hours is across the board, so I would say that all the staff have demonstrated a great deal of flexibility to keep the show on the road.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that. I took it that he was talking about the pilots agreeing to 26 hour flight duties where they don’t leave the aircraft.

Stovepipe

Its a rough and ready fix because you cant leave the vicinity of the aircraft and people's sleep as they fly will be substandard, but people are willing to do it.

goingnowhere

Stovepipe wrote: »

Its a rough and ready fix because you cant leave the vicinity of the aircraft and people's sleep as they fly will be substandard, but people are willing to do it.

5 flight deck crew so plenty of rotation and its a lot more comfortable up in business class seating than in the cave in the hold

yew_tree

Just curious Will Aer Lingus be flying out to Peru for the stranded Irish or will they be hitching a ride with BA or someone else?

Sexual Chocolate

yew_tree wrote: »

Just curious Will Aer Lingus be flying out to Peru for the stranded Irish or will they be hitching a ride with BA or someone else?

BA

Jamie2k9

Chinease Embassy say only 10 slots secured.

Edit - Only first batch.

Tenger

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

I don’t think anyone is disputing that. I took it that he was talking about the pilots agreeing to 26 hour flight duties where they don’t leave the aircraft.

True enough.

Im sure EI will be oversubscribed with flight crew volunteering to operate this cargo bridge. I know that a couple of cabin crew mates volunteered but the operation doesnt require them.

But regardless of having a bunk or seats in J Class it is a pretty arduous trip.
While the "return crew" will be expected to rest on the DUB-PEK sector Im sure they will be less than ready to snooze at the drop of a hat.
Similarly the DUB-PEK crew will “get a rest” on the way back but will be still be in tuned into the situation enroute.
Im expecting it will take a few extra days to recover than a regular 24 hour overlay doing DUB-LAX-DUB.

So kudos to the staff on this operation.

Coil Kilcrea

Tenger wrote: »

But regardless of having a bunk or seats in J Class it is a pretty arduous trip.
While the "return crew" will be expected to rest on the DUB-PEK sector Im sure they will be less than ready to snooze at the drop of a hat.
Similarly the DUB-PEK will get a rest on the way back but will be in tune with the situation enroute.
Im expecting it will take a few extra days to recover than a regular 24 hour overlay doing DUB-LAX-DUB.

It's a very tough flight for jet lag. If you get it right, you're out of sorts for a few days but if it doesn't work, you're not right for a week. And that's as a J passenger not working on the journey.

marno21

EI2108 leaving at 08:20 tomorrow according to Twitter

https://twitter.com/michaelkelly707/status/1243688080369999873

IngazZagni

Why am I seeing this word "volunteer" appear here regarding these flights? They are being paid well for operating the flights. It's amongst the only flying they can do at the moment.

Tenger

IngazZagni wrote: »

Why am I seeing this word "volunteer" appear here regarding these flights? They are being paid well for operating the flights. It's amongst the only flying they can do at the moment.

Because these flights are well outside of contracted or EASA work limits.
Thus any staff member (while still being paid) would have to be a volunteer.

IngazZagni

Tenger wrote: »

Because these flights are well outside of contracted or EASA work limits.
Thus any staff member (while still being paid) would have to be a volunteer.

Outside Union agreements you mean?

I also find it hard to believe this would breach EASA FTL's. Any duty has to be legal surely.

Its a temporary thing anyway. Not like it'll be the norm.

lintdrummer

IngazZagni wrote: »

Outside Union agreements you mean?

I also find it hard to believe this would breach EASA FTL's. Any duty has to be legal surely.

Its a temporary thing anyway. Not like it'll be the norm.

Can you imagine going from Dublin to Beijing and back, effectively in one day, as a passenger? Can you imagine how physically demanding that would be on you?

Now imagine that for at least half of that time you are going to be working in a very demanding environment, well outside the 'comfort zone' of your normal job.

The crew will have the use of the business class seats to rest, EASA considers this a Class 1 rest area so they can extend FTL's accordingly. I believe the fact that the flights are non commercial, being considered Humanitarian Aid, also has the effect of extending the FTL's.

They are not voluntary in the sense that the crews are being paid, albeit 50% of normal salary, but the crews are voluntarily working way beyond their normal working conditions in order to bring vital supplies to our country and to keep the company alive.

And yes they did have a choice, pilots could opt out of the operation but there was an overwhelmingly positive response to it.

Stovepipe

They are rostered for it, not volunteering. They will get three days off when they get home, because it is outside normal parameters. Some volunteered anyway, as it happens but the rostering is covering the flights so far. Not all of them are rostered, not all are volunteering.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

EI2108 leaving at 08:20 tomorrow according to Twitter

https://twitter.com/michaelkelly707/status/1243688080369999873

Despite two bites at the apple to appear to be in the “know” he still hasn’t got the call sign right. It is Shamrock 9018. 8 is a lucky number in China.

Also it has been planned to depart at 1020L for the last week. I’ve no idea where he gets his information but he would want to get a more reliable/accurate source.

MoeJay

What seems to be getting lost is the fact that this has all been put in place so fast...where there’s a will and all that.

A huge amount of work behind the scenes I’m sure. Credit where it’s due!

FlyLo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Despite two bites at the apple to appear to be in the “know” he still hasn’t got the call sign right. It is Shamrock 9018. 8 is a lucky number in China.

EI-EIM scheduled to dep at 1020 UTC

FlyLo

FlyLo wrote: »

EI-EIM scheduled to dep at 1020 UTC

Yeah I looked back at my info to see if it mentioned the callsigns for the other flights and saw the time was wrong as well.

IngazZagni

lintdrummer wrote: »

Can you imagine going from Dublin to Beijing and back, effectively in one day, as a passenger? Can you imagine how physically demanding that would be on you?

Now imagine that for at least half of that time you are going to be working in a very demanding environment, well outside the 'comfort zone' of your normal job.

The crew will have the use of the business class seats to rest, EASA considers this a Class 1 rest area so they can extend FTL's accordingly. I believe the fact that the flights are non commercial, being considered Humanitarian Aid, also has the effect of extending the FTL's.

They are not voluntary in the sense that the crews are being paid, albeit 50% of normal salary, but the crews are voluntarily working way beyond their normal working conditions in order to bring vital supplies to our country and to keep the company alive.

And yes they did have a choice, pilots could opt out of the operation but there was an overwhelmingly positive response to it.

50% plus all the extras that come with operating the flight.
Of course its physically and mentally demanding. Its pretty much a 1 or 2 time thing in extraordinary circumstances. I'm sure the thousands of pilots that have been sacked in recent days/weeks around the globe would be more than happy to operate these flights. Look around you.

Anyway enough about that. What's important is that these vital supplies reach Ireland without delay and I'm confident they'll be able to deliver.

Cloudio9

What frequency will these flights be going at? E.g are there several each day?

Jack1985

Cloudio9 wrote: »

What frequency will these flights be going at? E.g are there several each day?

Up to 5 a day from Tuesday.

Eventually by Thursday 0820...1120...1420...1720...2020 local everyday. By then hopefully they will have turn arounds down to less than 3 hours.

Nibs05

Strange they are sending EI-EAV

Trampas

How many pilots heading over with it been a turnaround flight where I read they can’t leave the plane in China

goingnowhere

Ei-EAV is first up for EI9018

Nice to see someone in EI remembers the old freight only codes

smurfjed

We operate ultra long range flights, circa 17 hours, the crews generally swap every 4 hours with the proviso that the crew who are going to do the landing will be in their seats for 2 hours before landing.

This is much easier than deadheading on sector one and operating sector two.

Pinch Flat

See Are lingus getting ready for the Beijing flight. God speed.

ohigg84

Nibs05 wrote: »

Strange they are sending EI-EAV

Yeah noticed that too, thought they would at least send GAJ, GCF, EIM and the 332s GEY, DUO, DAA.


LAX still in BOD

omega man

IngazZagni wrote: »

Outside Union agreements you mean?

I also find it hard to believe this would breach EASA FTL's. Any duty has to be legal surely.

Its a temporary thing anyway. Not like it'll be the norm.

Operating under EASA NCC, Non Commercial complex aircraft and EU ops subpart Q FTLs with relevant exemptions. All necessary agreements and approvals in place of course.

brettmirl

ATC audio of the flight departing: https://t.co/dIe5Y0dYUH?amp=1

d51984

Well done Aer Lingus and everyone involved in the background. The whole country is behind you.

Safe trip.

SAM SO NITE

d51984 wrote: »

Well done Aer Lingus and everyone involved in the background. The whole country is behind you.

Safe trip.

Its just a flight to China? Its not Matthew McConaughey in Interstellar

Locker10a

SAM SO NITE wrote: »

Its just a flight to China? Its not Matthew McConaughey in Interstellar

Well I’d say yes, the whole country is behind them, we will all likely know someone who may come to need the vital equipment they’re going to get for us. And the staff onboard are as mentioned going above and beyond to do this.
Matthew McConaughey on the other hand, is only a Hollywood actor...

IngazZagni

SAM SO NITE wrote: »

Its just a flight to China? Its not Matthew McConaughey in Interstellar

This is exactly what I keep thinking!

I’m wondering also why Aer Lingus continue to run a significant amount of flights relative to other airlines? Currently 5 EI aircraft en-route to North America despite the travel bans and a decent amount of euro trips too. I also saw yesterday that at least one of the EI UK flights operated with zero passengers over and zero passengers back. I mean what a waste haha.

LXFlyer

IngazZagni wrote: »

This is exactly what I keep thinking!

I’m wondering also why Aer Lingus continue to run a significant amount of flights relative to other airlines? Currently 5 EI aircraft en-route to North America despite the travel bans and a decent amount of euro trips too. I also saw yesterday that at least one of the EI UK flights operated with zero passengers over and zero passengers back. I mean what a waste haha.

Cargo in the belly is the main reason surely?

goingnowhere

Flights do carry freight as well.

China is a big deal, to establish overflight rights for Russia at short notice is a huge deal, to get approval from the Chinese government etc. These are things which normally take years to sort out.

EI back in the 1970's did all kinds of crazy flights when it was leasing aircraft out, so not strictly the first time an EI aircraft has been to Asia.

easypazz

LXFlyer wrote: »

Cargo in the belly is the main reason surely?

RTE showed a clip the other night of Delta loading 13 tonnes of pharma for the US.

Cargo will keep the aviation industry on life support for a while.

IngazZagni

On the UK flight example though it is a route that is usually operated by an ATR so I doubt much freight is carried normally. However due to union agreements they’ve had to change it to a mainline Airbus to protect EI jobs over Stobart. That’s my understanding anyway.

LXFlyer

IngazZagni wrote: »

On the UK flight example though it is a route that is usually operated by an ATR so I doubt much freight is carried normally. However due to union agreements they’ve had to change it to a mainline Airbus to protect EI jobs over Stobart. That’s my understanding anyway.

I hardly think the airline flew an aircraft back and forth empty for no reason.

There had to be freight to be carried.

Just because there isn’t normally freight doesn’t mean there won’t be now.

These are extraordinary times.

IngazZagni

LXFlyer wrote: »

I hardly think the airline flew an aircraft back and forth empty for no reason.

There had to be freight to be carried.

Just because there isn’t normally freight doesn’t mean there won’t be now.

These are extraordinary times.

Well they had passengers that booked tickets on both. Think in the region of 50 each way but no one showed up. The no show rate must be well over 90% at the moment.

ozzy jr

goingnowhere wrote: »

EI back in the 1970's did all kinds of crazy flights when it was leasing aircraft out, so not strictly the first time an EI aircraft has been to Asia.

They fly to Izmir most years.

Locker10a

IngazZagni wrote: »

Well they had passengers that booked tickets on both. Think in the region of 50 each way but no one showed up. The no show rate must be well over 90% at the moment.

And how do you propose they predict if 50 booked pax don’t show up?

IngazZagni

imonboard wrote: »

I think you will find it is voluntary, the engineers are now on a 20 hour working week. They will work their normal 20 hour duties and then do a 25 or so hour flight for free, some are doing 2 flights a week, so one flight will be completely voluntary.

Sure, good for them. However I think for all the engineers in Ireland that have been laid off in the last week, they’d be delighted to be in a position of still having a job and be on these flights. I’d extend it to say I’d be shocked if any staff member refused to operate these flights due to the lack of financial reward considering the circumstances the airline and more importantly the Country finds itself in.

Locker10a wrote: »

And how do you propose they predict if 50 booked pax don’t show up?

They’d have the data now to show that at best they will get high single digits showing up. The frequency should be cut to the absolute minimum for essential travel/cargo requirements. I was just surprised at the high frequency some former ATR routes are currently being maintained at. Don’t get me wrong though, this is an extremely minor issue in the grand scheme of things.

titan18

IngazZagni wrote:

Well they had passengers that booked tickets on both. Think in the region of 50 each way but no one showed up. The no show rate must be well over 90% at the moment.

Tbf, if they don't expect people to fly ATM, theyre idiot's. Not even cancelling flight so that people can't get proper compensation.

JCX BXC

ozzy jr wrote: »

They fly to Izmir most years.

They also flew to Dubai back in 2006.

They're not new to Asia, east Asia perhaps.

Inquitus

EIN9018 enroute to PEK for PPE etc.

https://www.flightradar24.com/EIN9018/244976fb