Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

stephenjmcd

Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned before and might be a silly question.

Just looking at flight radar, why are EI running an a330 EI-DAA on dub-lhr. Are the majority of short haul just parked up now ?
Thought they might have kept a handful for the likes of this route.

Dardania

easypazz wrote: »

How much do you think cabin crew would cost?

FLight like that - maybe 10k?

Pat Dunne

MoeJay wrote: »

Is the suggestion here that Aer Lingus put all this to the HSE/Government and not the other way around....?

I didn’t see a queue of other airlines banging down the door looking to do all this lift, maybe I missed that?

You’re missing out on the long term “relationship” that EI have had with Civil Service Departments over many years and vies versa.
The HSE needed to get product into Ireland as quickly as possible, Aer Lingus had the capacity a suitable quote for the job was arrived at and hey presto.
The City West Hotel has also benefitted similarly in hiring out rooms to the HSE for Covid19 patients.
As has the Private Hospitals who are been leased by the state. With the HSE paying the day to day operating costs of these Private Hospitals.

MoeJay

PCros wrote: »

I think you are missing the point here...

Also what other Irish airline have aircraft capable of flying to China?

I totally get what is being said. The point being made is that Aer Lingus are not to be congratulated for the China freight operation as they have the neck to charge for doing it.

My point is that Aer Lingus are not the entity who originated this deal. They charge a price. The point was made earlier in this thread that there are many many other freight operators who could pick up all this. Many of those I wager operate at a lower cost on an ordinary basis. Witness the fact that Irish troop charters are mostly undertaken by non Irish operators as a comparison.

However this is not an ordinary operation. And as such, it appears that despite the many other carriers who could possibly fulfill this contract, the margin is so thin as to not make it worth their while, or the administrative headaches required to make it worth are not worth the hassle while lots of other freight contracts are available that are much simpler and drive a greater return.

So here we are. Forgive me if I don’t agree with the negativity.

They ain’t martyrs or saints, but credit where credit is due.

PCros

MoeJay wrote: »

I totally get what is being said. The point being made is that Aer Lingus are not to be congratulated for the China freight operation as they have the neck to charge for doing it.

My point is that Aer Lingus are not the entity who originated this deal. They charge a price. The point was made earlier in this thread that there are many many other freight operators who could pick up all this. Many of those I wager operate at a lower cost on an ordinary basis. Witness the fact that Irish troop charters are mostly undertaken by non Irish operators as a comparison.

However this is not an ordinary operation. And as such, it appears that despite the many other carriers who could possibly fulfill this contract, the margin is so thin as to not make it worth their while, or the administrative headaches required to make it worth are not worth the hassle while lots of other freight contracts are available that are much simpler and drive a greater return.

So here we are. Forgive me if I don’t agree with the negativity.

They ain’t martyrs or saints, but credit where credit is due.

I totally agree with you that credit is where credit is due under these circumstances.

I have nothing but praise for Aer Lingus as an airline but the general consensus is that they are doing this out of their back pocket.

Tenger

MoeJay wrote: »

.........
They ain’t martyrs or saints, but credit where credit is due.

I think this line hits the nail on the head.

I don't think anyone here assumed EI were doing this operation for free. (I certainly didn't but the massive rash of bloggers/social media posts probably did)
They are a commercial entity with the equipment and expertise in a position to provide a service to the State. It's that simple.


Why the need to be negative about it?

If a taxi driver stops to collect you in a thunderstorm do you thank them or be surly with them as they are making a profit from you?


On a related note Ryanair have stated their aircraft are available to any Euro nation that needs them. They may not get any requests but isn't it a nice gesture anyway?

Irish Steve

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned before and might be a silly question.

Just looking at flight radar, why are EI running an a330 EI-DAA on dub-lhr. Are the majority of short haul just parked up now ?
Thought they might have kept a handful for the likes of this route.

I suspect that the 330 is being used for the additional freight capacity, both in terms of weight and size, being able to take freight pallets will be a benefit, there is probably significant additional post coming from the UK due to on line ordering, as well as medical supplies being shipped in and out of Ireland due to the present circumstances.

salmocab

Anyone who thought EI were doing this for free needs help. Obviously they are getting money for it, it’s still a great effort and my understanding is that staff are doing things that would not normally be countenanced. Whilst they are getting paid for this it’s still a big give on their parts. I wouldn’t quite buy into handing out sainthoods but it’s still a great effort.

MJohnston

Aren't most people praising Aer Lingus crew rather than just the airline itself? That's what I've seen. The crew deserve the praise and thanks.

Foggy43

Irish Steve wrote: »

I suspect that the 330 is being used for the additional freight capacity, both in terms of weight and size, being able to take freight pallets will be a benefit, there is probably significant additional post coming from the UK due to on line ordering, as well as medical supplies being shipped in and out of Ireland due to the present circumstances.

It looks as though BA have stopped their DUB flights from LHR. LCY airport is closed. Aer Lingus are probably picking up these flights at LHR.

goingnowhere

The global freight business is booming currently as the majority of passenger flights are stopped so the previously available space in the hold is gone, that was fairly cheap space as the flight was flying anyway.

The big carriers, Cargolux etc are full and have no capacity. We needed 10 trips a week to China to lift the stuff

If you look across EU, Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Iberia are all running cargo ops with passenger aircraft. American and Delta have done the same.

EI are almost certainly getting paid a commercial rate and the staff are working what amounts to a 30+ hour shift which would never be considered in normal conditions, there are ground staff and engineers who never leave Dublin onboard as well. This is green jersey, keeping the money in the economy and protecting jobs and companies where possible.

Ryanair, CityJet can't help, don't have the range. ASL has the aircraft and know how but is busy with its contracted business.

I imagine someone has a quote from another carrier on file to hire a 747 and the math was done to show EI was cheaper and without question the more flexible option. Also diplomatically a lot easier send the flag carrier into a country which has restrictive policies on overflights

joeysoap

Foggy43 wrote: »

It looks as though BA have stopped their DUB flights from LHR. LCY airport is closed. Aer Lingus are probably picking up these flights at LHR.

I think AL picked a few UK citizens in New York too, and brought them back to Dublin.

They picked ‘our’ citizens in Peru, so it reciprocal

sherology

PCros wrote: »

I think you are missing the point here...

Also what other Irish airline have aircraft capable of flying to China?

AerLingus haven't promoted this to my knowledge but as a 'good news story in nothing but bad news stories' and with huge benefit in solving a huge problem for healthcare workers... It gives the populus something to smile about. The media crafted it as a mercy mission. Don't be so negative!!! You get more bees with honey.

PCros

sherology wrote: »

AerLingus haven't promoted this to my knowledge but as a 'good news story in nothing but bad news stories' and with huge benefit in solving a huge problem for healthcare workers... It gives the populus something to smile about. The media crafted it as a mercy mission. Don't be so negative!!! You get more bees with honey.

Not being negative at all.

I asked a simple question because outside of this forum there is a different narrative to which Tenger alluded too.

California Dreamer

Pat Dunne wrote: »

At last someone who sees this for what it is, well said IngazZagni.
I’ve read all the “Well Done, Our Chaps” type posts and other similar jingoistic style gibberish from the EI Fanboys.
EI are not been patriotic in “rescuing” Ireland, they came up with a very clever commercial idea, at a time with they had spare capacity and are making a profit out of it.

Hence the price for the flights.

I got some information for a friend in need of large freight and after some enquiries through a couple of aero mates got a price of approx 280k from central europe to china and back to Ireland.

Problem is most cargo operations are out the door right now hence why EI being able to jump on this and collect a nice pay day.

California Dreamer

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Please have your factS correct before posting, thank you.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Pat Dunne

MoeJay wrote: »

Witness the fact that Irish troop charters are mostly undertaken by non Irish operators as a comparison.

Members of the Defence Forces who go overseas are part of either UN or EU Force deployments and it is these bodies who organise the movement and repatriation of Irish Defence Forces personal. Not the Irish Government or Defence Forces.
Please have your “fact” correct before posting, thank you.

Pat Dunne

California Dreamer wrote: »

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

In a previous career, I dealt with Media on a daily basis.
And trust me your comment is remarkably close to the truth.

MoeJay

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Members of the Defence Forces who go overseas are part of either UN or EU Force deployments and it is these bodies who organise the movement and repatriation of Irish Defence Forces personal. Not the Irish Government or Defence Forces.
Please have your “fact” correct before posting, thank you.

Is that of my post is not factually correct? I made no comment about who contracted the operator.

You alleged a "relationship" between EI and the Government; I countered that there is a commercial end to this, quite similar to that used for the troop charters.

Sexual Chocolate

EI-DUZ back in the air after its recent bird strike.

Tenger

Pat Dunne wrote: »

.............
.................
.................
Please have your “fact” correct before posting, thank you.

We already have a few moderators on this forum so no need for anyone else to try and moderate their fellow posters

Pat Dunne

MoeJay wrote: »

Is that of my post is not factually correct? I made no comment about who contracted the operator.

You alleged a "relationship" between EI and the Government; I countered that there is a commercial end to this, quite similar to that used for the troop charters.

The troop charters are not contracted by the State or any of it agencies. These are commercial arrangements made by the UN or the EU, whichever Organisation the Defence Force personal happen to be serving.

Pat Dunne

Tenger wrote: »

We already have a few moderators on this forum so no need for anyone else to try and moderate their fellow posters

Can I ask where its written that it is not permitted to counter a incorrect statement?

goingnowhere

Back on track here

EI9018 and EI9020 are en route to PEK

Tenger

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Can I ask where its written that it is not permitted to counter a incorrect statement?

Countering an incorrect statement is objectively fine (even though in this case the poster didn’t specify anything about which entity pays for those charters)

The polite warning concerned your attempt to instruct another poster about when or how they can post here.

So let’s be less concerned with nitpicking each other and more concerned with the tone of our posts.
Otherwise I start to ban posters

Saul88

MJohnston wrote: »

Aren't most people praising Aer Lingus crew rather than just the airline itself? That's what I've seen. The crew deserve the praise and thanks.

I personally think it went way overboard (including on here). The crew are doing a very important and skilful job but in reality they are doing something that’s second nature to them in a very very safe environment.

Yes I’m proud but definitely no prouder than the shelve stackers mixing with the public while being paid almost minimum wage / bus drivers / postmen etc who are interfacing with the public.

I’ve seen a well known aviation analyst on Twitter call American cabin crew first responders, an insult to the real first responders.

Aviation from a distance has always had a romantic element to it but we need to get real to who the real hero’s of this pandemic are.

Pat Dunne

Saul88 wrote: »

I personally think it went way overboard (including on here). The crew are doing a very important and skilful job but in reality they are doing something that’s second nature to them in a very very safe environment.

Yes I’m proud but definitely no prouder than the shelve stackers mixing with the public while being paid almost minimum wage / bus drivers / postmen etc who are interfacing with the public.

I’ve seen a well known aviation analyst on Twitter call American cabin crew first responders, an insult to the real first responders.

Aviation from a distance has always had a romantic element to it but we need to get real to who the real hero’s of this pandemic are.

Have to say I very much agree with the conclusions you’ve drawn in your comments.
Unfortunately the tabloid jingoistic drivel that is been spewed forth on Social media and certain aspects of mainstream media here in Ireland is almost equal to that of Britain’s nationalistic media.

JCX BXC

Saul88 wrote: »

I personally think it went way overboard (including on here). The crew are doing a very important and skilful job but in reality they are doing something that’s second nature to them in a very very safe environment.

Yes I’m proud but definitely no prouder than the shelve stackers mixing with the public while being paid almost minimum wage / bus drivers / postmen etc who are interfacing with the public.

I’ve seen a well known aviation analyst on Twitter call American cabin crew first responders, an insult to the real first responders.

Aviation from a distance has always had a romantic element to it but we need to get real to who the real hero’s of this pandemic are.

Have to agree, I find it cringeworthy some of the applauding that has been done for some.

Our healthcare staff are the real heroes here, make no doubt about it, however everyone can play their part!

billie1b

IngazZagni wrote: »

So is this a case of Russia dragging their feet with regards to overfly rights? Typical Russian bureaucracy if it’s the case. Especially disappointing as these are flights to deliver essential health equipment. I doubt the same issues would happen if the roles were reversed.

Only catching up on the thread now, friend was an f/o on one the flights canx, they were told the Chinese companies handling and managing the supplies ran out/short, so the flight were cancelled to allow them catch up on the supplies.

MJohnston

Saul88 wrote: »

I personally think it went way overboard (including on here). The crew are doing a very important and skilful job but in reality they are doing something that’s second nature to them in a very very safe environment.

Yes I’m proud but definitely no prouder than the shelve stackers mixing with the public while being paid almost minimum wage / bus drivers / postmen etc who are interfacing with the public.

I’ve seen a well known aviation analyst on Twitter call American cabin crew first responders, an insult to the real first responders.

Aviation from a distance has always had a romantic element to it but we need to get real to who the real hero’s of this pandemic are.

I think there's more nuance to how most people are praising things. But whatever. This is an utterly bleak time to live through, and people are just looking for optimism and bright sparks. I think this thread's grumpiness is utterly pointless in the face of that.

IngazZagni

Agreed. It's a win win situation folks. Aer Lingus is able to fly it's aircraft whilst making a profit on those flights during this crisis and the Country gets its much needed supply of medical equipment. Everyone goes home happy.

sherology

MJohnston wrote: »

I think there's more nuance to how most people are praising things. But whatever. This is an utterly bleak time to live through, and people are just looking for optimism and bright sparks. I think this thread's grumpiness is utterly pointless in the face of that.

AGREE

Chris_5339762

People need something to look to in a time like this. This is a thing to look to.

California Dreamer

MJohnston wrote: »

I think there's more nuance to how most people are praising things. But whatever. This is an utterly bleak time to live through, and people are just looking for optimism and bright sparks. I think this thread's grumpiness is utterly pointless in the face of that.

You know you are in an aviation forum right?!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

dfx-

From FR24, there looks to be about fifteen A320s still operating in April mostly in the morning. DUS, LHR, MAN, BHX, FRA, MUN, TXL..

ozzy jr

How come today's flight to PEK made it's turn before it reached Holyhead, where as most of the previous flights had being going as far as Amsterdam before taking the turn towards Beijing.

IngazZagni

ozzy jr wrote: »

How come today's flight to PEK made it's turn before it reached Holyhead, where as most of the previous flights had being going as far as Amsterdam before taking the turn towards Beijing.

Slightly different routing due to ATC or wind benefits probably

Being reported by RTÉ now that much of the medical equipment delivered is defective and unusable. Very disappointing if true.

Kev11491

While they're getting deserved credit for handling the Beijing flights, they're making a balls of handling refunds. They're cancelling flights last minute in the hope that people will just go for the voucher or a change in travel date.

jd

IngazZagni wrote: »

Being reported by RTÉ now that much of the medical equipment delivered is defective and unusable. Very disappointing if true.

That's not quite what is being said. It is up to WHO standards, but not what they are use to eg more cumbersome .
https://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1245975179588775936

PinOnTheRight

ozzy jr wrote: »

How come today's flight to PEK made it's turn before it reached Holyhead, where as most of the previous flights had being going as far as Amsterdam before taking the turn towards Beijing.

Probably given a direct routing by ATC as a short cut given amount of traffic around.

fishy_fishy

Saul88 wrote: »

I personally think it went way overboard (including on here). The crew are doing a very important and skilful job but in reality they are doing something that’s second nature to them in a very very safe environment.

I just want to point out in all your level headedness that you're factually incorrect to say that this is second nature. They're doing roughly 27-28 hour duties in sectors where they've never operated before. That is not second nature and does go above and beyond.

sherology

Kev11491 wrote: »

While they're getting deserved credit for handling the Beijing flights, they're making a balls of handling refunds. They're cancelling flights last minute in the hope that people will just go for the voucher or a change in travel date.

It's a pain in the bum (I had two flights booked but was glad to be able to push them to next autumn/winter given the disaster we're all in - I'll worry about it then) but I would assume it's 100% intentional, and EI are not alone in Europe for doing it. They won't exist at all if they refund, they will if they move the goal posts.

IngazZagni

jd wrote: »

That's not quite what is being said. It is up to WHO standards, but not what they are use to eg more cumbersome .
https://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1245975179588775936

That may be true but there are other problems such as the garments only having three quarter length sleeves which don’t cover the arm fully making them useless.

fishy_fishy wrote: »

I just want to point out in all your level headedness that you're factually incorrect to say that this is second nature. They're doing roughly 27-28 hour duties in sectors where they've never operated before. That is not second nature and does go above and beyond.

It’s absolutely a gruelling shift. However loads of those in the aviation industry including myself would love to be in a position of still getting at least 50% pay and operating these vital flights. Unfortunately I’m not in that position and sitting at home instead.

Van.Bosch

ozzy jr wrote: »

How come today's flight to PEK made it's turn before it reached Holyhead, where as most of the previous flights had being going as far as Amsterdam before taking the turn towards Beijing.

Social distancing

Storm 10

The crew that flew the first flight to China will be on tonight's Late Late Show

sparrowcar

Storm 10 wrote: »

The crew that flew the first flight to China will be on tonight's Late Late Show

I really hope these pilots and the EI PR machine don't try to claim any glory from real front line staff working in hospitals etc. Being in a sterile cockpit doing your job does not require any additional praise.

What about the local medicine delivery drivers, supermarkets cashiers, airport front line staff etc who are in genuine harm's way? Fair play to the pilots for going (some of who are friends) but on the late late show... really?

California Dreamer

Storm 10 wrote: »

The crew that flew the first flight to China will be on tonight's Late Late Show

Checks date.......:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

California Dreamer

jd wrote: »

That's not quite what is being said. It is up to WHO standards, but not what they are use to eg more cumbersome .
https://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1245975179588775936

And not a single thing to do with Aer Lingus.

They fly to a point, pick up some stuff and fly home.

That is their only, not to inspect anything.

Many fingers to point but not EI

joeysoap

No overnighting now. Tougher on crew positioning on outbound flights.

mikel97

Storm 10 wrote: »

The crew that flew the first flight to China will be on tonight's Late Late Show

Why would they be on that show?