Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

River Song

highlydebased wrote: »

Yes and the latest arrival will probably be in service sooner than May to cater for J class fitout on other aircraft

Heard it'll be in the first few months of next year. Saw a picture of the interior on Facebook yesterday, the toilets and galley look to be in the same place as the other 3 aircraft so there shouldn't be much faffing around with them this time!

IRLConor

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Hard to say but it depends on if they send A333s to WC as its the A332s which are clocking up the years more so however in saying that a few more years should be left.

They could do with the extra seats on a few of the flights to/from SFO. There wasn't a single free seat on my return flight the other day. One of the passengers near me had a problem with their seat and there was nowhere else to put them.

I know it isn't that busy all the time but if they were able to mix a few -300s in for the busier days it might pay off. I generally only fly on the weekends so I know I'm seeing the busier ones but I don't think I've seen any that I would have called at less than 95% full.

Long Time Lurker

Novice question so apologies in advance but A) what's a J Fit and what's the logic in using older leased 757s and at the same time retiring newer A330s.

trellheim

J is typically referred to as shorthand for Business Class

LXFlyer

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Novice question so apologies in advance but A) what's a J Fit and what's the logic in using older leased 757s and at the same time retiring newer A330s.

757 is a smaller aircraft and better matched to the routes that it operates than the larger A330.

AndyBoBandy

lxflyer wrote: »

757 is a smaller aircraft and better matched to the routes that it operates than the larger A330.

i.e. more fuel efficiency per seat,

a full 757 will be more efficient than an A330 with 100 empty seats on it, so cheaper for the airline to use on a route that wouldn't fill a 330

Long Time Lurker

Thanks folks. Why the older planes though. Is it just to test the water and upgrade if and when the flights prove viable or is there some other reason.

For what its worth I recently did a Dublin - Toronto & back from Boston and I found the 757 a much more comfortable aircraft than the 330. Maybe I'm mad but there actually seemed to be more space in the 757. Anyway!

AndyBoBandy

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Thanks folks. Why the older planes though. Is it just to test the water and upgrade if and when the flights prove viable or is there some other reason.

(I admit I'm no expert, especially compared to the knowledge of some of the regular posters in A&A) but,
Possibly cheaper to lease? and possibly the best of what is currently available on the lease market.

I wouldn't be too concerned with the age of an aircraft, but rather that it was correctly inspected & maintained as per the manufacturers guidelines.

Long Time Lurker

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I wouldn't be too concerned with the age of an aircraft, but rather that it was correctly inspected & maintained as per the manufacturers guidelines.

Oh absolutely. I was just wondering why not order new aircraft for viable routes.

LXFlyer

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Oh absolutely. I was just wondering why not order new aircraft for viable routes.

Why go to all that unnecessary expense when perfectly adequate aircraft already exist?

As posted above, the aircraft concerned are not exactly old in aviation terms.

PaulKK

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Maybe I'm mad but there actually seemed to be more space in the 757. Anyway!

Yup you're mad The pitch is the same it seems in both 31"/32".

I have to say I really like the 2-4-2 seat config of the A330. Its handy when traveling with your spouse etc to grab ac or hk, I get the aisle and she gets the window, win win!

I was on a delta 767 last year and it had a similar 2-3-2 layout but the plane did not feel as spacious and obviously the delta birds are a little tired also.

Tenger

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Oh absolutely. I was just wondering why not order new aircraft for viable routes.

Newer planes have a long time from ordering to delivery and they cost a lot compared to leasing an older aircraft which is in good shape. Thus the airline can use the cheaper to operate, smaller older aircraft now, rather than waiting for the newer more fuel efficient aircraft in a couple of years.

IRLConor

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Oh absolutely. I was just wondering why not order new aircraft for viable routes.

When an airline is leasing/contracting in an aircraft they'll only really care that it's going to be in good nick until the end of the lease/contract.

The 757s are there for opening new routes, so while the current routes seem to be doing OK as far as I know, you have to assume that they'll hit a dud one eventually. Having the flexibility to scale the fleet up and down becomes more valuable in those circumstances.

I presume it's for the same reason that they're contracting out the 757 routes to Air Contractors. The routes are higher risk than the more established ones so some amount of insulation from the main business is useful.

Irish Steve

The 757 is a class of it's own in many respects. It has a long range compared to the top end 737's and 320's, which can carry almost as many passengers, but not for the distance that the 757 can. It's an easy aircraft to handle on the ground, as it doesn't need specialised bin loading systems that are now standard on wide body aircraft, and at this stage, the total cost of ownership of a 757 is significantly lower than on modern types,

The reason that 757's are still so popular on the long haul "skinny" routes is that there is no modern replacement for them. A few years ago, BA sold off a large number of their 757's to DHL for freighter conversions, but then the winglet was designed for the 757, they are a recent addition, and the improvement in range and operating cost has given them a new lease of life on many routes.

JCX BXC

To clarify a point from above, the 757 is not just for route testing by EI, its main use is for thinner routes within the network. Next summer DUB-IAD will be a 757, unlike this year when it was an A330, SNN-JFK/BOS is on a 757 as well as DUB-YYZ.

AndyBoBandy

Irish Steve wrote: »

The 757 is a class of it's own in many respects. It has a long range compared to the top end 737's and 320's, which can carry almost as many passengers, but not for the distance that the 757 can. It's an easy aircraft to handle on the ground, as it doesn't need specialised bin loading systems that are now standard on wide body aircraft, and at this stage, the total cost of ownership of a 757 is significantly lower than on modern types,

The reason that 757's are still so popular on the long haul "skinny" routes is that there is no modern replacement for them. A few years ago, BA sold off a large number of their 757's to DHL for freighter conversions, but then the winglet was designed for the 757, they are a recent addition, and the improvement in range and operating cost has given them a new lease of life on many routes.

Would/could an 'ER' A321 ever be considered as an alternative to the 757, as they have similar pax numbers, also for the likes of AL, it keeps them within their 1 manufacturer policy in terms of parts/maintenance.

JCX BXC

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Would/could an 'ER' A321 ever be considered as an alternative to the 757, as they have similar pax numbers, also for the likes of AL, it keeps them within their 1 manufacturer policy in terms of parts/maintenance.

Pretty sure it will, the 757's will be too old soon, alot are being retired already. The A321ER is being created as a replacement, although I'm not sure it quite matches the specifications of the 757, but it comes closer than any other aircraft has.

Tenger

Carnacalla wrote: »

Pretty sure it will, the 757's will be too old soon, alot are being retired already. The A321ER is being created as a replacement, although I'm not sure it quite matches the specifications of the 757, but it comes closer than any other aircraft has.

While some online commentators bemoan the fact that the A321LR will not cover the capability of the B757 the fact remains that it will cover 90% of it, and the manufacturer doesnt see the need to overspec the design to cover those extra 50-ish units.

Tenger

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Have the new A330's been officially confirmed anywhere?

Here:
http://www.investegate.co.uk/intl-con-airline-grp/iag/iag-aircraft-orders/201511050909566669E/?fe=1&utm_source=FE%20Investegate%20Alerts&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Announcement%20Alert%20Mail&utm_campaign=Intl%20Con%20Airline%20Grp%20Alert

International Airlines Group (IAG) is converting two Airbus 330-300 and two A330-200 longhaul aircraft options into firm orders for Aer Lingus and Iberia, respectively. Aer Lingus will receive its aircraft in 2016 while Iberia's aircraft will be delivered between 2017 and 2018. They will enable the airlines to expand their existing longhaul fleets.

Van.Bosch

Tenger wrote: »

Here:
http://www.investegate.co.uk/intl-con-airline-grp/iag/iag-aircraft-orders/201511050909566669E/?fe=1&utm_source=FE%20Investegate%20Alerts&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Announcement%20Alert%20Mail&utm_campaign=Intl%20Con%20Airline%20Grp%20Alert

International Airlines Group (IAG) is converting two Airbus 330-300 and two A330-200 longhaul aircraft options into firm orders for Aer Lingus and Iberia, respectively. Aer Lingus will receive its aircraft in 2016 while Iberia's aircraft will be delivered between 2017 and 2018. They will enable the airlines to expand their existing longhaul fleets.

Thanks - might announce tomorrow at the IAG capital markets day

goingnowhere

To be fair this has been common knowledge for at least 2 weeks.

MSN 1742 & 1744 A330-302

Owner IAG
Operator EI

Both should be complete for May/June 2016

St. Leibowitz

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-events-single/detail/iag-converts-four-a330s-and-15-a320neo-aircraft-into-firm-orders/

Officially announced by Airbus today.

Tenger

St. Leibowitz wrote: »

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-events-single/detail/iag-converts-four-a330s-and-15-a320neo-aircraft-into-firm-orders/

Officially announced by Airbus today.

goingnowhere wrote: »

To be fair this has been common knowledge for at least 2 weeks.

Both manufacturers do like to make announcements at airshows....gives the event bit of prestige.

Started yesterday:
http://www.dubaiairshow.aero/

"Common knowledge" may be a little generous however.

Locker10a

St. Leibowitz wrote: »

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-events-single/detail/iag-converts-four-a330s-and-15-a320neo-aircraft-into-firm-orders/

Officially announced by Airbus today.

Hmm I wonder where the 320NEOs are going ? EI in the next 2-3 year will be in need of replacing some short haul craft ?

duskyjoe

Intrigues me are the 330 300 for EIN the IGW versions at 242t or standard. 242t frames will make west coast.

ohigg84

duskyjoe wrote: »

Intrigues me are the 330 300 for EIN the IGW versions at 242t or standard. 242t frames will make west coast.

I also wonder, is the 242t A330-300 the standard A330-300 model that is manufactured now, until the A330-300 Regional is produced.

Tenger

duskyjoe wrote: »

Intrigues me are the 330 300 for EIN the IGW versions at 242t or standard. 242t frames will make west coast.

Current EI A330 can make the West Coast too....they were used earlier this year.

ohigg84

Tenger wrote: »

Current EI A330 can make the West Coast too....they were used earlier this year.

I never knew that, thought that the -200s are only used for those routes.

What range does the current -300s that EI have compared to the 330s that were delivered in 94/95?

Tenger

ohigg84 wrote: »

........
What range does the current -300s that EI have compared to the 330s that were delivered in 94/95?

Well I just wasted 20 mins of my time but I managed to find the image that was published by EI in 2007.*

I searched "aer lingus full year results 2007" and got this:
http://www.aerlingus.com/Corporate/Results_Presentation.pdf

slide 11 shows the route map I remember seeing.
EI figures from March 2008 are as follows:
Current A333- 4000 nm
'New' A333- 5100 nm
Current A332- 5700 nm
'New A332' - 5940 nm
A350-800/900 - 7300/7050 nm


*I searched for "EI orders A350" and figured out the dates from those results, first tried "2006" then "2007". Worth it? maybe not!

goingnowhere

Tenger wrote: »

Current EI A330 can make the West Coast too....they were used earlier this year.

But there are payload restricted due the runway in Dublin