Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Tenger

Carnacalla wrote: »

So Aer Lingus are going to set up aborad are they?

It would be more along the lines of "IAG setting up a base" which happens to be operated by EI aircraft and/or crew.
My mate in EI has heard such an "opportunity" being alluded to by EI mngrs.

EDIT with additional info: She told me that it was hinted that BHX-USA was an option that the low cost base of EI makes viable.
So crew would operate a W pattern away from home base (DUB-JFK-BHX-JFK-DUB)
Something along the lines of "todays BA flightBHX-JFK is operated by EI"



I would agree that it seems quite a big leap, however I have heard IAG described as "an accountants wet dream".
So a route would indeed be a giant shiny object for an accountant even if the marketing people were getting upset.

Aer Lingus setting up a base or route ex-Ireland may be an odd idea, but IAG setting up a low cost operator at a new location isnt so mad.

basill

It doesn't even have to be a base, just a based aircraft with crew moving in and about. My feeling is that WW sees us as the low cost long haul operator within the group. If that means seasonal work such as Novair or route proving exercises or a return to the UK regions which BA have largely deserted then so be it. My guess is this is what the EI managers are looking at since their biggest gripe at the moment is trying to improve the seasonality of our business.

JCX BXC

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't forget

Gatwick
Belfast
Madrid

ALL bases outside the Republic that EI have very recently had both SH and LH aircraft.

I am aware of those bases, but none were major, and MAD was a failure afaik.

I cannot see EI setting up a major base anywhere except DUB. It doesn't make sense in my eyes.

LiamaDelta

Tenger wrote: »

So a route would indeed be a giant shiny object for an accountant even if the marketing people were getting upset.

Why would the marketing people be upset?

Tenger

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Why would the marketing people be upset?

Brand protection, brand dilution etc. However at the end of the day its profitability that will determine whether a company follows a particular new project.

donvito99

Carnacalla wrote: »

I am aware of those bases, but none were major, and MAD was a failure afaik.

MAD wasn't so much a failure as it was a bit of ingenuity that EI has always possessed when it came to utilising instead of furloughing aircraft when demand has fallen away, be it seasonally or economically related.

It might have been a failure in terms of crewing, cabin crew were American if I recall.

Jack1985

Find this Belfast and for that matter Shannon talk amusing... There is zero intent from the company to expand from Belfast or Shannon. A number of SNN crew were as of recently informed to re-locate to DUB or face redundancy from the company, likewise happened in BHD. The ambition is clear to continue accelerating the rewarding ''DUB HUB'' as its referred to in plans, ops.

There are ambitions to expand Cork ops I'm hearing this won't happen until Summer 2017, Cork has always been a winner for EI - Maintained short-haul profitability throughout the downturn, even though some routes were cut to maintain this. The ambition will be to expand the fleet there. I'm hearing back in DUB as above, TATL will continue to accelerate and the return of overnights across Europe (AMS, CDG, DUS, LGW, MAD and ZRH - believed to be the initial contenders) will be happening due to lack of parking at DUB and to introduce ease to connections from DUB i.e. allowing EU op's to connect to the 105, the later EU departures (as well as earlier EU arrivals) will also allow for more flexibility in terms of new Long-Haul operations during less stand peak times at DUB.

JCX BXC

Jack1985 wrote: »

Find this Belfast and for that matter Shannon talk amusing....There is zero intent from the company to expand from Belfast or Shannon.

Is that why EI grew the sun routes so majorly from BHD this year? Is that why EI grew FAO and AGP from SNN?

Jack1985

Carnacalla wrote: »

Is that why EI grew the sun routes so majorly from BHD this year? Is that why EI grew FAO and AGP from SNN?

Remember at BHD this Summer LGW is dropped, there is zero change to number of station units as at SNN.

The dropping of Cork W patterns to PMI (ORK-PMI-DUB-PMI-ORK) and MUC as was the case in S15, has allowed primarily Cork expansion (additional frequency's on BCN, CDG, FAO) and new DUS route. This has also allowed peak frequency increase on SNN to FAO and AGP.

I wouldn't call this expansion being honest, it's peak driven and seasonal. For example BHD will go to 1 aircraft next winter.

JCX BXC

Jack1985 wrote: »

Remember at BHD this Summer LGW is dropped, there is zero change to number of station units as at SNN.

The dropping of Cork W patters to PMI (ORK-PMI-DUB-PMI-ORK) and MUC as was the case in S15, has allowed primarily Cork expansion (additional frequencys on BCN, CDG, FAO and new DUS route. This has also allowed peak frequency increase on SNN to FAO and AGP.

I wouldn't call this expansion being honest, it's peak driven and seasonal. For example BHD will go to 1 aircraft next winter.

Fair enough regarding BHD, but it's still growth. I'm sure EI could easily have kept the 2 extra return flights for something ex ORK, DUB instead of SNN.

Jack1985

Carnacalla wrote: »

Fair enough regarding BHD, but it's still growth. I'm sure EI could easily have kept the 2 extra return flights for something ex ORK, DUB instead of SNN.

It's actually not growth at all. Weekly flights from BHD go from 56 weekly flights as was the case in S15 to 49 weekly this Summer that's a drop of 7 flights a week from BHD this Summer.

The extra SNN frequencies are purely demand lead for peak Summer months, there's not much scope for further Cork expansion until an additional based unit which is planned. In total SNN gets an extra 2 flights a week for 4 months, negligible growth.

Further expansion outside of DUB is focused on ORK.

highlydebased

Do Aer Lingus actually have crew based at Shannon?

Also as the ASL crew for t/a services crew both SNN and DUB flights surely there shouldn't be the matter of moving in the first place?

Jack1985

highlydebased wrote: »

Do Aer Lingus actually have crew based at Shannon?

Also as the ASL crew for t/a services crew both SNN and DUB flights surely there shouldn't be the matter of moving in the first place?

I was referring to Cabin Crew. Their are no Aer Lingus pilots at Shannon. ASL have two crew bases for pilots at both DUB and SNN.

On a seperate note here is some aggressive advertising I'm delighted to see by the company, see if any of you catch this in Amsterdam on your travels

Amsterdam Rivierenbuurt Rijnstraat Combino 2092 Aer Lingus 09:16:46 by Ge Riviera, on Flickr

Razor44

with the opening up of Iran what are the chances of Tehran being on the radar? good onward traffic to LA etc.

ugh I ment to post this on route discussion. sorry.

JCX BXC

Razor44 wrote: »

with the opening up of Iran what are the chances of Tehran being on the radar? good onward traffic to LA etc.

ugh I ment to post this on route discussion. sorry.

I very much doubt it.
While you may get some connection traffic, there's very little of a Origin and Destination market, cant see it being sustainable. Maybe in several years with the influx of refugees, but that market has to mature first.

At any rate, it will likely be Iran Air if it was to happen.

Razor44

Carnacalla wrote: »

I very much doubt it.
While you may get some connection traffic, there's very little of a Origin and Destination market, cant see it being sustainable. Maybe in several years with the influx of refugees, but that market has to mature first.

At any rate, it will likely be Iran Air if it was to happen.

there is a massive ex pat community in LA plus iran has a lot to offer in terms of sites. However I'd agree with you in terms of needing market maturity and also stability. from what I've seen BA are going back to Tehran with a 777 6x weekly.

JCX BXC

Razor44 wrote: »

there is a massive ex pat community in LA plus iran has a lot to offer in terms of sites. However I'd agree with you in terms of needing market maturity and also stability. from what I've seen BA are going back to Tehran with a 777 6x weekly.

I understood your LA point, so maybe a Ethiopian type set up may be possible with Iran air, but not Aer Lingus anyway imho.

The British Embassy reopened in Tehran a few months ago, flights returning would make sence.

aviator7

I don't see any transatlantic operations from Belfast happening. I think aerlingus' relationship with Belfast international is well and truly done after the airport attempted to sue them for £20 million.

Dardania

Jack1985 wrote: »

Find this Belfast and for that matter Shannon talk amusing... There is zero intent from the company to expand from Belfast or Shannon. A number of SNN crew were as of recently informed to re-locate to DUB or face redundancy from the company, likewise happened in BHD. The ambition is clear to continue accelerating the rewarding ''DUB HUB'' as its referred to in plans, ops.

There are ambitions to expand Cork ops I'm hearing this won't happen until Summer 2017, Cork has always been a winner for EI - Maintained short-haul profitability throughout the downturn, even though some routes were cut to maintain this. The ambition will be to expand the fleet there. I'm hearing back in DUB as above, TATL will continue to accelerate and the return of overnights across Europe (AMS, CDG, DUS, LGW, MAD and ZRH - believed to be the initial contenders) will be happening due to lack of parking at DUB and to introduce ease to connections from DUB i.e. allowing EU op's to connect to the 105, the later EU departures (as well as earlier EU arrivals) will also allow for more flexibility in terms of new Long-Haul operations during less stand peak times at DUB.

If this is their strategy (focus on Dublin as hub, regional Irish airports are outposts, and overnight abroad to feed Dub Hub activities) it sounds very smart, to get long haul traffic.

I just hope it isn't <too much> at the expense of those that might need to go to day meetings in Europe getting the first flight of the morning - I'm in a routine now where I get the 6am or 7am wherever (MAD, LIN, BCN) to avoid going the night before (makes difference to family)

LXFlyer

Jack1985 wrote: »

I'm hearing back in DUB as above, TATL will continue to accelerate and the return of overnights across Europe (AMS, CDG, DUS, LGW, MAD and ZRH - believed to be the initial contenders) will be happening due to lack of parking at DUB and to introduce ease to connections from DUB i.e. allowing EU op's to connect to the 105, the later EU departures (as well as earlier EU arrivals) will also allow for more flexibility in terms of new Long-Haul operations during less stand peak times at DUB.

This would make a lot of sense - it would greatly increase the possibility of transfer traffic - which is what IAG have stated is one of their goals.


It would also allow Aer Lingus operate a second wave of short haul flights out of Dublin between 08:00 and 10:00 which (with a few exceptions) it effectively doesn't have at the moment. That would appeal to a great number of people (myself included) who avoid the first wave like the plague.

TheFitz13

Was there ever a date set as to when the new A330s will be delivered?

Tenger

TheFitz13 wrote: »

Was there ever a date set as to when the new A330s will be delivered?

No firm dates, However counting the deliveries from Toulouse lets us assume 1742 and 1744 will be delivery mid Aug-early Sep. Also, with the DUB-EWR route to commence at the start of Sept you can assume that at least one will be delivered before that.

TheFitz13

Tenger wrote: »

No firm dates, However counting the deliveries from Toulouse lets us assume 1742 and 1744 will be delivery mid Aug-early Sep. Also, with the DUB-EWR route to commence at the start of Sept you can assume that at least one will be delivered before that.

Thanks! Wonder if they're even in production yet ha, thanks!

Tenger

TheFitz13 wrote: »

Thanks! Wonder if they're even in production yet ha, thanks!

They're currently about 40 frames away. I'm not actually sure how long it takes from first fabrication to first flight...anyone?
EDIT: apparently a documentary about Boeing stated that it takes them about 3 weeks to assemble a B747, so guess a little less for an A330?

Scroll to the end of this listing;
http://www.airfleets.net/listing/a330-26.htm

Iberia took delivery of MSN 1694 on 28th Dec 2015, its first flight was on Dec 14th.

AndyBoBandy

Tenger wrote: »

They're currently about 40 frames away. I'm not actually sure how long it takes from first fabrication to first flight...anyone?
EDIT: apparently a documentary about Boeing stated that it takes them about 3 weeks to assemble a B747, so guess a little less for an A330?

Don't forget though that Airbus production happens over many facilities. Although in terms of overall timeline, probably has little to no impact at all.

I spent 2009/2010 in France building a power station next to an Airbus factory (Montoir) where they assembled nose sections for 320/1 & 330's, as well as fuselage sections for 380's.

It was a joy to see 4/5 Beluga take off's & landings every day from a runway that was only 200/300 meters away!! they had to move the 380 sections by road to the transport ship nearby, which wasn't fun when the road was closed trying to get home!

zone 1

when AL made the move to airbus was it better deal or was it because been european plane maker...

JCX BXC

zone 1 wrote: »

when AL made the move to airbus was it better deal or was it because been european plane maker...

I'd imagine there was quite a few reasons. Same as buying a car, or a phone (albeit probably alot more complicated).

Irish Steve

IT was a long time ago now, but I seem to recall that Aer Lingus got very good pricing from Airbus when they took the first 330's, as a new type, they were not ETOPS rated at the time, and the routes from Ireland to the US were ideal for them getting the hours needed, without impacting significantly on the operational requirement to remain within the diversion distances required.

zone 1

i remember seeing picture of 747 and the first a330 together somewhere great picture old livery too

AndyBoBandy

zone 1 wrote: »

i remember seeing picture of 747 and the first a330 together somewhere great picture old livery too

Theres a lovely scale model of an A330 in the old livery in the reception area of the Aughinish Alumnia refinery in Limerick.
(next time I'm there I'll try to remember and take a photo of it)