Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Tenger

Locker10a wrote: »

So does that mean they are requesting leasing companies who have access to or orders for the A321LR to offer leases ? They don't intend to purchase any? Just lease, how soon could these leases be available ?

Currently the leasing companies hold most of the early slots for the A321LR, there is no actual airline marked as the 'launch customer'.
Well that was the case last time I went digging in the Airbus production lists a couple of months ago.

Marcusm

Whether EI has the production slots or not, RFPs are issued both for ordered aircraft (in which case it could be for a variety of financing methods, ECA financing, tax leases etc) and to obtain operating leases of aircraft.

Avada

Bussywussy wrote: »

There is a plan to modify existing seats with the newer Panasonic eco monitors,not sure will it happen,there is no problem in the design and recertifying of the seats,recaro are already on it.

Thank god, the older ife system is crap

Bussywussy

Avada wrote: »

Thank god, the older ife system is crap

It'll be same system,just newer better monitors.

Simon Gruber Says

The touch screen is actually usable on them at least and they've changed the in flight map to one that looks better.

Other than that, it's the same as it was.

Avada

Bussywussy wrote: »

It'll be same system,just newer better monitors.

Its the monitor I was referring to. I found the touchscreen unusable and ending up using the remote in the armrest.

L1011

I suspect Airbus would be relatively happy with EI being the launch customer for the 321LR - restore an airline to all-Airbus status and its also one with a history of trailblazing for them across the Atlantic - taking some of the first 330s (higher serials due to sharing sequence with 340s) built and proving ETOPS on it.

Without digging too deeply I think EI may actually have had the 3rd 330 delivery after a pair to Air Inter. They have actually been *the* launch customer for a type before but a very long time ago - Fokker 27s!

goingnowhere

Indeed EI was the first after Air Inter

kevinandrew

Razor44 wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

KLM are returning two CF6 powered 330s to lessors this year - even if its their oldest, they're 11 years old. Considering recent A320 adds have been lease returns I do wonder if these are on their radar. With the vast bulk of recent 330s being Roller powered, useful second-hand CF6 models aren't that abundant.

You would have to think it would make sense for EI due to the rarity of the CF6 330s. However does EIs current CEO have the vision for that, and the ability to make that vision/strategic view into a business case for them.  

That would be a very costly exercise and would have little to do with vision. Aer Lingus has no requirement for second hand A330s, even if they are CFM powered, when they've already got brand new deliveries on the way this year. They'd be purchasing/leasing an aircraft simply for the sake of it.

Bussywussy

Simon Gruber Says wrote: »

The touch screen is actually usable on them at least and they've changed the in flight map to one that looks better.

Other than that, it's the same as it was.

Yup the only real difference from EX2 and EX3 from pax point of view is the above mentioned and only handsets in front rows in economy,the distribution end differs alright.

billy few mates

goingnowhere wrote: »

Indeed EI was the first after Air Inter

So the second....?

kub

billy few mates wrote:

So the second....?

EI were the first to fly the 330 across the Atlantic

Tenger

Avada wrote: »

.....I found the touchscreen unusable and ending up using the remote in the armrest.

Oh the humanity!!!

Avada

Tenger wrote: »

Oh the humanity!!!

Its minor, but when you're paying 500 quid plus for a service, things like that should work. The remote didnt exactly work 100% either.

tricky D

Same here. Touchscreen was a pain; remote better, but still laggy. Mind you at the price I pay, I don't complain.

Noxegon

Avada wrote: »

Its minor, but when you're paying 500 quid plus for a service, things like that should work. The remote didnt exactly work 100% either.

It's worth calling out that the IFE in use on Emirates shows what can be done. The Aer Lingus offering (and indeed most other airline offerings) is pretty miserable in comparison.

duskyjoe

Noxegon wrote: »

It's worth calling out that the IFE in use on Emirates shows what can be done. The Aer Lingus offering (and indeed most other airline offerings) is pretty miserable in comparison.

Try flying SAA. Appalling IFES. Flew LHR -J'Burg return......both sectors mine was bust. EIN are streets ahead.

L1011

kevinandrew wrote: »

That would be a very costly exercise and would have little to do with vision. Aer Lingus has no requirement for second hand A330s, even if they are CFM powered, when they've already got brand new deliveries on the way this year. They'd be purchasing/leasing an aircraft simply for the sake of it.

They are already talking about retaining an antique due to capacity needs. Availability is limiting expansion.

goingnowhere

EI-LAX EI-EWR are known quantities ordered to EI spec, a bit younger than many of the 777 fleet BA have.

There is a balance about lease cost, length, interior fit-out etc

If you have 4 shinny new A330 being built unless its an emergency you ain't going to lease

duskyjoe

L1011 wrote: »

They are already talking about retaining an antique due to capacity needs. Availability is limiting expansion.

Antique? That sounds to me that they are operating crates.

Third_Echelon

Noxegon wrote: »

It's worth calling out that the IFE in use on Emirates shows what can be done. The Aer Lingus offering (and indeed most other airline offerings) is pretty miserable in comparison.

British Airways IFE is very good. Excellent choice and the screens are decent.

Bussywussy

Third_Echelon wrote: »

British Airways IFE is very good. Excellent choice and the screens are decent.

Depends on the aircraft,was on a 777 and screens were crap.

Third_Echelon

Bussywussy wrote: »

Third_Echelon wrote: »

British Airways IFE is very good. Excellent choice and the screens are decent.

Depends on the aircraft,was on a 777 and screens were crap.

True, the older aircraft screens aren't great. 747 and 777 ones are small. I've mostly been on their 787 and A380 recently, so that's changed my memory

Bussywussy

Third_Echelon wrote: »

True, the older aircraft screens aren't great. 747 and 777 ones are small. I've mostly been on their 787 and A380 recently, so that's changed my memory

also BA are having serious problems with the go-go Wi-Fi,they've a 747 aircraft done since December and can't get it working!

Third_Echelon

Bussywussy wrote: »

Third_Echelon wrote: »

True, the older aircraft screens aren't great. 747 and 777 ones are small. I've mostly been on their 787 and A380 recently, so that's changed my memory

also BA are having serious problems with the go-go Wi-Fi,they've a 747 aircraft done since December and can't get it working!

Didn't know that. It has been a big gap in their offering for the past few years alright.

Bussywussy

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Didn't know that. It has been a big gap in their offering for the past few years alright.

They should of went Panasonic

Foggy43

Bussywussy wrote: »

also BA are having serious problems with the go-go Wi-Fi,they've a 747 aircraft done since December and can't get it working!

Yes, one B747-4 has Go-Go Wifi installed but not yet activated. Still awaiting EASA certification.

Locker10a

Has EI-EZV left the fleet ?

A319er

No both in fleet until March, low utilisation due winter season , pre lease return work, cleaning.

Locker10a

A319er wrote: »

No both in fleet until March, low utilisation due winter season , pre lease return work, cleaning.

Thanks, has a second replacement been sourced addition to the Aeroflot one for march ?

A319er

Yes is short answer , paperwork to be completed, but all in train.

Jamie2k9

Reservations for Porto have been closed online, looks like no extra A320 happening as it was needed based on recent schedule I did and OPO slots required it.

Interesting to see how it plays out with another A320.

Locker10a

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Reservations for Porto have been closed online, looks like no extra A320 happening as it was needed based on recent schedule I did and OPO slots required it.

Interesting to see how it plays out with another A320.

Could the partnership with Cityjet for the summer months have possible affected this? The wetlease of capacity in the form of an SSJ (rumoured) may mean they don't actually need an extra 320?

Jamie2k9

Locker10a wrote: »

Could the partnership with Cityjet for the summer months have possible affected this? The wetlease of capacity in the form of an SSJ (rumoured) may mean they don't actually need an extra 320?

Hard to say, if SSJ was happening why remove OPO from sale, have to see how it plays out.

zone 1

so in real world what size fleet do AL really need long and short haul they always seem to be short of AC

Locker10a

zone 1 wrote: »

so in real world what size fleet do AL really need long and short haul they always seem to be short of AC

I don't think they are short as such (I may be wrong) I think it's that the market they serve is very seasonal and thus for a number of weeks in the summer they tend to take on extra capacity to provide for this demand. In pervious years they have short term leased extra aircraft and operated it themselves, on other occasions they have hired in other airlines to operate additional summer capacity for them.
Based on the information from other posters on here, it seems unclear what or how this additional capacity will be delivered this year

Jamie2k9

zone 1 wrote: »

so in real world what size fleet do AL really need long and short haul they always seem to be short of AC

Not short of them just not growing the fleet because realistically they old need capacity for around 16 weeks and getting a deal for such a period and making a profit is where the problem lies.

zone 1

so in IAG books they are little commuter airline on the side compared to what they own....

Locker10a

zone 1 wrote: »

so in IAG books they are little commuter airline on the side compared to what they own....

No not at all! What gives you that impression, in IAGs book they are the best performing airline, excelling at what they do, creating a mini hub at DUB and connecting the USA to their European destinations, and on the other hand serving the busier than ever Irish holiday market.

zone 1

no just wondering its just you here other airlines growing which means demand for more AC.. but AL purchased 2 A330 this year were new the A320 seems to be the real work horse of the fleet they seem to be geting old.. i no the 757 are 20plus years old ... russian a320 plane is new addition to fleet is 9 years old all ready..

Locker10a

zone 1 wrote: »

no just wondering its just you here other airlines growing which means demand for more AC.. but AL purchased 2 A330 this year were new the A320 seems to be the real work horse of the fleet they seem to be geting old.. i no the 757 are 20plus years old ... russian a320 plane is new addition to fleet is 9 years old all ready..

That have been growing their fleet, particularly the transatlantic fleet over the past few years and it thought to continue.
The age of aircraft have no relation to growth/success of airlines, The EI fleet on average is no older or younger than most of their peer competitors, the 757s are a stop gap untill the new 321neoLR comes on the market.
Over the next 10 years I'm sure you'll see EI getting new aircraft from a pool of aircraft ordered by IAG and distributed to their partners as required

kevinandrew

It's clearly very hard to find the right balance for the short haul business at the moment, in peak summer they could easily take on 2 or 3 extra aircraft but once that peak travel period is over they are left with capacity they have no work for. The other IAG airlines all operate in similar market conditions, busy summers, quiet winters so "borrowing" aircraft from any of them is unlikely as a long term solution. Finding leases for such a short operating period is also very difficult so their options are quite limited, usually they end up with short term leases, hire in aircraft from Titan ect. or just remain conservative in their growth plans. 



In the long term Aer Lingus will need to find a solution or it's short haul business will never grow in any great numbers again. In summer there's plenty of scope for growth but it seems they are unable to tap into its full potential because that extra capacity will be wasted come winter, that's why Aer Lingus needs to find profitable work in the winter or they need to consider a smaller jet aircraft (not the A319) that will free up capacity in the summer and then enable them to return to normal come winter. The Cityjet deal sounds like something that could work here but whether or not that is going ahead remains to be seen. 



The short haul network has been disappointing for a few years now anyway, every summer a new sun route or two pops up but nothing particularly interesting, it speaks volumes about how competitive the Aer Lingus model is outside of it's comfort zone. 



Without considerable change you can bet Aer Lingus will be one of the last IAG carriers to receive next generation aircraft from existing IAG order pools, the A320neos will go to BA, IB and Vueling first, the A350s are long gone at this stage and A330neos seem equally unlikely. Aer Lingus might be lucky enough to get A321neoLR's as the business case is already there and proven but with the 757s getting wifi, I think they'll be sticking around a bit longer than we originally thought.

Bussywussy

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus might be lucky enough to get A321neoLR's as the business case is already there and proven but with the 757s getting wifi, I think they'll be sticking around a bit longer than we originally thought.

Heard on good authority there is initially 6 321s LRs coming,starting a lot sooner than you think.

Locker10a

Bussywussy wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus might be lucky enough to get A321neoLR's as the business case is already there and proven but with the 757s getting wifi, I think they'll be sticking around a bit longer than we originally thought.

Heard on good authority there is initially 6 321s LRs coming,starting a lot sooner than you think.

Great to hear this, can't wait to see what happens with them

Locker10a

kevinandrew wrote: »

It's clearly very hard to find the right balance for the short haul business at the moment, in peak summer they could easily take on 2 or 3 extra aircraft but once that peak travel period is over they are left with capacity they have no work for. The other IAG airlines all operate in similar market conditions, busy summers, quiet winters so "borrowing" aircraft from any of them is unlikely as a long term solution. Finding leases for such a short operating period is also very difficult so their options are quite limited, usually they end up with short term leases, hire in aircraft from Titan ect. or just remain conservative in their growth plans. 



In the long term Aer Lingus will need to find a solution or it's short haul business will never grow in any great numbers again. In summer there's plenty of scope for growth but it seems they are unable to tap into its full potential because that extra capacity will be wasted come winter, that's why Aer Lingus needs to find profitable work in the winter or they need to consider a smaller jet aircraft (not the A319) that will free up capacity in the summer and then enable them to return to normal come winter. The Cityjet deal sounds like something that could work here but whether or not that is going ahead remains to be seen. 



The short haul network has been disappointing for a few years now anyway, every summer a new sun route or two pops up but nothing particularly interesting, it speaks volumes about how competitive the Aer Lingus model is outside of it's comfort zone. 



.

If the deal goes ahead with Ryanair on offering codeshares/connecting traffic, then I think we will see very little change/expansion on European routes. The concentration will be on transatlantic mainly.

kevinandrew

Locker10a wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

It's clearly very hard to find the right balance for the short haul business at the moment, in peak summer they could easily take on 2 or 3 extra aircraft but once that peak travel period is over they are left with capacity they have no work for. The other IAG airlines all operate in similar market conditions, busy summers, quiet winters so "borrowing" aircraft from any of them is unlikely as a long term solution. Finding leases for such a short operating period is also very difficult so their options are quite limited, usually they end up with short term leases, hire in aircraft from Titan ect. or just remain conservative in their growth plans. 



In the long term Aer Lingus will need to find a solution or it's short haul business will never grow in any great numbers again. In summer there's plenty of scope for growth but it seems they are unable to tap into its full potential because that extra capacity will be wasted come winter, that's why Aer Lingus needs to find profitable work in the winter or they need to consider a smaller jet aircraft (not the A319) that will free up capacity in the summer and then enable them to return to normal come winter. The Cityjet deal sounds like something that could work here but whether or not that is going ahead remains to be seen. 



The short haul network has been disappointing for a few years now anyway, every summer a new sun route or two pops up but nothing particularly interesting, it speaks volumes about how competitive the Aer Lingus model is outside of it's comfort zone. 



.

If the deal goes ahead with Ryanair on offering codeshares/connecting traffic, then I think we will see very little change/expansion on European routes. The concentration will be on transatlantic mainly.

Risky way of doing business in my opinion. Granted the Ryanair deal can provide feed from markets that Aer Lingus currently doesn't or can't profitably serve on their own but it risks allowing the short haul network to stagnate further, no growth, no ambition and exposes an obvious weakness in what was regularly described as a "robust" model.

JCX BXC

I notice that Norwegian have expressed interest in a deal with Ryanair and EasyJet for connections, although I wouldn't consider Ryanair a company with ethics as such, they did put in an unusual amount of resources into their takeover attempt of Aer Lingus a few years back. If Norwegian try hard enough, could Ryanair force a connections deal with Aer Lingus to fend off their home ground? I'd imagine both Ryanair and Aer Lingus would prefer the completion they already have between each other than competition with Norwegian.

Just a thought.

Bussywussy

The 2 A320s coming will be EI-GAL/GAM

Locker10a

Bussywussy wrote: »

The 2 A320s coming will be EI-GAL/GAM

Cool, so the 2 a320s are going ahead, that's great news

Bussywussy

not sure who said they weren't!!! Don't think porto was dropped due to lack of aircraft