Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

alancostello

Irishweather wrote: »

I think the point is that no current narrow body transatlantic flights have gone anywhere near this capacity level.. United often struggled with 4,000 mile routes with a much lower configuration, there is talk of Aer Lingus operating routes further into North America, that is where I questioned the capability of this aircraft.

United's 757s have 169 seats, Aer Lingus' own have 177, so an increase of 9 seats to 186 on the A321LR is not some gigantic capacity leap, it's not even 5%. If they were replacing the 757s with A330s then sure I'd be worried, but it's essentially like for like, I don't see it as an issue.


Anything I've seen from EI has specifically mentioned the A321LRs for Northern East Coast US/Canada, where are you seeing the talk of going further?

Irishweather

Airiners.net. I know not a credible site but still it's a legitimate proposal.

alancostello

Irishweather wrote: »

Airiners.net. I know not a credible site but still it's a legitimate proposal.

I don't see it to be honest, Chicago is too far and already filling A330s. You're more likely to see them do double A321LRs to somewhere like JFK and move the A330 somewhere else that needs the range.

Tenger

I would concur. The A321LRs allow them to open up smaller cities in Eastern US/Canada or to increase/modify frequency to existing cities. EG. 2xA330 in Summer, 2x321LR in post Xmas low demand.
Using the A321LR to add frequency to existing routes thus 'frees up' the widebody asset to access cities further into the US/Canada (ie. Seattle/Vancuver/Dallas)
In the same way that upgauging the DUB-SFO route to an A333 this summer (mentioned by CEO a while back) will allow them to redeploy the A332's to a newer route being built up (LAX and later MIA)

The A321LR may also offer EI savings over the current B757 and allow them to return to year round flights to JFK ex-SNN.

roundymac

This is one for the pilots on here. Would a fully loaded A321LR make JFK without refueling ex Cork?

alancostello

roundymac wrote: »

This is one for the pilots on here. Would a fully loaded A321LR make JFK without refueling ex Cork?

Not a pilot but you don't need to be to answer, yes it would. They'd be able to fly to Barcelona or Madrid ex JFK.

kub

roundymac wrote: »

This is one for the pilots on here. Would a fully loaded A321LR make JFK without refueling ex Cork?

Interestingly Willie Walsh mentioned that the A321LR would be ideal for thin routes such as Cork at some press conference a few months ago.

JCX BXC

alancostello wrote: »

Not a pilot but you don't need to be to answer, yes it would. They'd be able to fly to Barcelona or Madrid ex JFK.

Fully loaded, corks runway, being the two key points. It can fly, but can it fly fully loaded?

alancostello

JCX BXC wrote: »

Fully loaded, corks runway, being the two key points. It can fly, but can it fly fully loaded?

7,000ft at 206 passengers. So with 186 Cork's 6,998ft should be fine, it's not as if it's hot and high.

kub

Is Cork the highest airport from sea level in the country?

JCX BXC

Cork.is 153m, Knock is 203m!

alancostello

JCX BXC wrote: »

Cork.is 153m, Knock is 203m!

Dublin is 74m, it's inconsequential. You'd have to have an airport on top of Carrauntoohil for it to have a major difference.

Tenger

kub wrote: »

Interestingly Willie Walsh mentioned that the A321LR would be ideal for thin routes such as Cork at some press conference a few months ago.

I wouldnt put too much stock by what WW says in press conferences. He may have said that as 'throwing a bone' to a journo from the Examiner.

JCX BXC

alancostello wrote: »

Dublin is 74m, it's inconsequential. You'd have to have an airport on top of Carrauntoohil for it to have a major difference.

I never said it did.

Bargain Blake

EI121 14/02, is it a 332 or 333? Tks.

ted1

Any reason why the newer fleet won't have premium economy?

Locker10a

ted1 wrote: »

Any reason why the newer fleet won't have premium economy?

Well I'd imagine it's because such a product offering hasn't been decided on yet.
To be honost, going forward what I see happening is EI offering a Low Fare option equal to Norwegian, then a Low fare Plus type fare which will be somewhere in between the current offering and a premium economy!

LiamaDelta

ted1 wrote: »

Any reason why the newer fleet won't have premium economy?

PE is pretty much disappearing in all but widebody long haul aircraft. Most new aircraft have the same seating and then just superficial add ons to make a PE or business class (e.g. the table insert into the middle seat). I think the future of PE and business (in short haul anyway) is going to be made up in the service rather than seating, e.g. priority boarding, checked bags, food drinks etc.

ted1

LiamaDelta wrote: »

PE is pretty much disappearing in all but widebody long haul aircraft. Most new aircraft have the same seating and then just superficial add ons to make a PE or business class (e.g. the table insert into the middle seat). I think the future of PE and business (in short haul anyway) is going to be made up in the service rather than seating, e.g. priority boarding, checked bags, food drinks etc.

I think companies are stopping staff flying buisness class but are willing to pay for PE, and as such there's s good market for it.

Tenger

ted1 wrote: »

I think companies are stopping staff flying buisness class but are willing to pay for PE, and as such there's s good market for it.

Absolutely. Hence why the airlines feel that the difference from Y to Y+ on Shorthaul can be made using service add-ons (upgraded meal, lounge access, fastpass security, priority boarding etc) rather than physical deferentiation.
These business travellers can atill get the 'better features' without the employer overspending on J class tickets.

Premium Economy (on longhaul or as a replacement for s/h Business Class) of course would require a obvious difference in cabin config in addition to the softer service options.

LiamaDelta

ted1 wrote: »

I think companies are stopping staff flying buisness class but are willing to pay for PE, and as such there's s good market for it.

I've only experience of my own company and that of colleagues in the same industry. In this case rather than stopping people flying business it's actually a case that they are willing to allow more people to PE rather than flying economy in order to encourage them to travel and/or compensate for having to travel for work.

ted1

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I've only experience of my own company and that of colleagues in the same industry. In this case rather than stopping people flying business it's actually a case that they are willing to allow more people to PE rather than flying economy in order to encourage them to travel and/or compensate for having to travel for work.

Either way we are agreeing that businesses are willing to pay for premium economy for their staff

LiamaDelta

ted1 wrote: »

Either way we are agreeing that businesses are willing to pay for premium economy for their staff

Oh most certainly....in general we fly economy or PE up to 5 hours and business over 5 hours.

ted1

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Oh most certainly....in general we fly economy or PE up to 5 hours and business over 5 hours.

We fly to often so HR won't allow us buisness unless we can charge back to the customer. Our costs would make us to us too uncompetitive.

Tenger

Now that we've sorted out what your company travel policies are lets try to dial in a heading back to the current and future Aer Lingus fleet. Thanks.

ted1

Tenger wrote: »

Now that we've sorted out what your company travel policies are lets try to dial in a heading back to the current and future Aer Lingus fleet. Thanks.

Are companies policies not important when deciding the seat configuration of future aircraft? I'd hazard a guess and say the number paying fir buisness class seats out if their own pocket are in the minority.

Airbus A320

Will EI ever get A300/310s or Boeing's ever again? Why/why not?

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

Will EI ever get A300/310s or Boeing's ever again? Why/why not?

The a330 is the modern incarnation of the 300/310, I can't see why EI would get planes that are no longer in production and nearly all relegated to cargo service. The a330 is massively more efficient, modern, capacious, and safe.

Pre-IAG the likelehood of buying Boeing again was slim, they were burned badly by the 747s and got a bad deal out of the 767s in the early 90s. Airbus sweetened the deal so much that going for anything else but the a330 was just bad business sense.

Going forward, IAG will give EI whatever it feels it needs/can successfully use. BA operates a highly successful mixed fleet, though they carry dramatically more pax every year. In the near term it's likely to continue to be a330(supplemented by the incoming a321LRs), perhaps a350s in a decade or so. But I wouldn't rule out some 787s or 777s in the long term, again, it'll be whatever fits and can be filled reliably.

AndyBoBandy

Airbus A320 wrote: »

Will EI ever get A300/310s or Boeing's ever again? Why/why not?

I don't think anyone will get A300/310's again, unless they get very used ones.

Aer Lingus customers currently fly on Boeing 757's transatlantic, though these are not strictly Aer Lingus planes, they are owned by Air Contractors

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

I remember going on the EI-BED 747 all those years ago. Ah, the memories. It's a pity she was put to BED, see what I did there?
Would EI never get any more 747s or 767s? What about 737's?
A bit off topic, but will Ryanair ever get any other planes apart from the 737's?What would it most likely be?

Aer Lingus doesn't have the right structure for 747s, nor routes that demand them. At this stage 747s are only being used profitably for ultra long hauls and long over-water flights and by carriers offering premium service like Lufthansa. Aer Lingus is served better by sending two a330s to a destination than one 747 as it allows for more connections from the route network, transfers are a big part of their transatlantic business.

There's no need for a 767, the a330 has slightly higher capacity, and generally better economics, most airlines are beginning to retire their 767s and replace them with a330s or 787-8s. With such a comparatively small fleet to begin with it doesn't make sense to fragment it, it'll result in far higher maintenance and training costs. Fewer types, fewer costs. Kavanagh said that 737s were in competition for the recent lease, however unsurprisingly the a321LRs won(as they have across the industry, at a four to one ratio).

Ryanair benefits similarly at such a large scale as Aer Lingus do, with only a single type maintenance is massively streamlined and cheaper. They have placed large orders for the 737 MAX so it's unlikely to change in the near future. However O'Leary will do whatever makes good business sense, with lower orders of 737 MAX compared to a320neo I would imagine he'll be getting great deals on Boeing metal for the foreseeable future.

Airbus A320

What's the oldest plane still in EI? Are any EI planes going to retire soon?

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

What's the oldest plane still in EI? Are any EI planes going to retire soon?

Technically the 757s and ATR 42s, however they're both not mainline, they're ASL Ireland and Stobart Air, respectively. The oldest mainline are the three a321s and three of the a330-200s. Both are likely to stick around for another while, though some of the oldest a320s are getting replaced in the next few months as they'd have much higher cycle counts than the transatlantic planes.

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

What other planes do ASL have in their inventory?

There's a list on the Wikipedia page.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASL_Airlines_Ireland

Captain_Crash

Airbus A320 wrote: »

What's the oldest plane still in EI? Are any EI planes going to retire soon?

Currently EI-CPE, an A321 delivered new in 1998. EI-CPG and CPH were delivered new in 1999, they're also A321's.

My belief is that all three will be retired in the coming years.

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

The 737-300, what type of flights does it operate? Could it be leased to EI?

They wouldn't take it. For the same reasons they wouldn't take a 767.

Airbus A320

I think a few 738's would look good in EI, don't you think?

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

I think a few 738's would look good in EI, don't you think?

I'm sure any plane would look good in the livery, but if I were to actually see them I would frankly be worried.

What I care about is comfort, and the a320 is a more modern cabin that is actually wider and taller than the 737, it's one of the reasons I choose EI over FR(let alone seat pitch).

Airbus A320

Would EI ever go for a 777?

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

Would EI ever go for a 777?

Already been discussed. IAG will get whatever planes suit the route, and can be filled reliably.

Shannon757

Airbus A320 wrote: »

Would EI ever go for a 777?

Not likely.

Airbus A320

Ok, so if EI were to get new planes, what would they be? A 787 perhaps? Do they still have the a319s and a318s?

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

Ok, so if EI were to get new planes, what would they be? A 787 perhaps? Do they still have the a319s and a318s?

They'll be sticking with a320s and a330s for the foreseeable future. They've never had a318s and the a319s were sent to vueling as they were inefficient for their size relative to a320s.

Airbus A320

What about the Dreamliner? And for EI regional, would they ever get any other jets like Flybe , cityjet and the Saabs?

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

What about the Dreamliner? And for EI regional, would they ever get any other jets like Flybe , cityjet and the Saabs?

Again, previously discussed. IAG will do whatever fits.

In regard to Stobart Air, only they know. Given how many brand new ATR72s they've purchased in the last few years I doubt it.

Shannon757

Airbus A320 wrote: »

What about the Dreamliner? And for EI regional, would they ever get any other jets like Flybe , cityjet and the Saabs?

EI would go for the A350 if they were to get an aircraft for that market.
And it's probably not efficient for Stobart to get jets. The ATRs are the perfect fit for them.

alancostello

Airbus A320 wrote: »

Would a340's be good for EI? And also, I read in a different thread about ASJ, and bringing it back to Ireland. What do you think, would this be a good idea? Why/why not?

No. For the same reason as 747s.

Go discuss that in that thread, as it has no relevance to EIs fleet.

Shannon757

Airbus A320 wrote: »

Would a340's be good for EI? And also, I read in a different thread about ASJ, and bringing it back to Ireland. What do you think, would this be a good idea? Why/why not?

A340s aren't as efficient as A330s so no.


And if you read the other thread fully you would see that it would take millionaire to bring back ASJ

Comhrá

Ahem......my troll proximity warning just went off there briefly.....anyone else?

Third_Echelon

kevinandrew wrote: »

VQ-BAZ, the ex-Aeroflot A320 scheduled to join the Aer Lingus fleet shortly has been painted and named St. Maeve, it will be re-registered EI-GAL before entering service. 

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8523436

The first window appears to be plugged, not sure if that indicates the cabin layout being a little different.

Here's an internal pic from jet photos... doesn't look too different. Maybe a wider entrance/no first row at door?

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8435426

kub

I really hope they are replacing those seats.