Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

basill

Don't be fooled by those range figures that get published by the manufacturer. What you want to know is what it can take off with at MTOW and with average winds and decent alternate coverage. If you start leaving people or cargo behind and can only operate when its dry and with favourable winds then it soon becomes a financial disaster.

sherology

Using the a220 instead of atr's would help EI connections IMHO. Turboprop aircraft can be seen as a bit scary for some passengers which could deter connection traffic, plus baggage allowances and sizes can be standardized across the fleet, and not be smaller for atr and larger for tranat.

Were it me, I'd replace the atr operation over the next 5-yrs and go all jet, with a cs100 or 300, or a mix, and use these small and efficient aircraft to enhance and expand their near-euro market, explore new thinner routes, fly in bad weather, and fly faster, more rotations etc.

F

adam88

I fly to Birmingham very often. There’s no real cost difference between Ryanair and aer lingus whem I book and I always fly Aer lingus, every day I think it’s 50/50 between the 320 and the atr’s. I always choose the 320 flights as they’re quicker. There’s just something about those atr’s

California Dreamer

adam88 wrote: »

I fly to Birmingham very often. There’s no real cost difference between Ryanair and aer lingus whem I book and I always fly Aer lingus, every day I think it’s 50/50 between the 320 and the atr’s. I always choose the 320 flights as they’re quicker. There’s just something about those atr’s

Yeh they are props and go slower than a jet engine. Thought that was fairly obvious.

Skuzchad

Probably never happen but waiting for the day Aer lingus announce Dublin to Houston or Dallas in Texas Direct .one can hope i guess

alancostello

sherology wrote: »

Using the a220 instead of atr's would help EI connections IMHO. Turboprop aircraft can be seen as a bit scary for some passengers which could deter connection traffic, plus baggage allowances and sizes can be standardized across the fleet, and not be smaller for atr and larger for tranat.

Were it me, I'd replace the atr operation over the next 5-yrs and go all jet, with a cs100 or 300, or a mix, and use these small and efficient aircraft to enhance and expand their near-euro market, explore new thinner routes, fly in bad weather, and fly faster, more rotations etc.

F

They’re efficient jets but they’re not small by any measure. The A220-100 seats 125 at a generous pitch with Swiss, and the A220-300 seats 145, that’s not miles away from the A320’s 174 seats. The ATRs seat 48 and 72 people, less than half of the A220s. An appropriate jet replacement for the ATRs would be a CRJ700 or CRJ900 unless Aer Lingus wants to massively increase capacity on routes that I’d imagine it already would have if it could have.

ozzy jr

Was cycling around DUB on Saturday and stopped for half and hour or so for a look (I wanted to watch the Cathay A350 take off).

Anyway, during the time I was there I seen about 5 EI A330s take off and land. It got me thinking about when i used to be brought out to the airport as a kid. I never used to see the 747s land but used to love watching them take off.

So in a roundabout way I'm wondering how the 747 would fit into the modern Aer Lingus, with the likes of SFO, LAX and SEA operating from Dublin.

Would they be economical in the fleet now?

(For arguments sake lets say I'm asking this question in a couple of years, when the new runway is open and is long enough for a 747 to reach those cities without stopping in Shannon.)

Anything with four engines is struggling to be economically viable due to the fuel cost. As a result EI would need to be able to fill it to the gills with passengers or have a large load of premium passengers (Dublin doesn’t have this).

goingnowhere

747 is dead basically, the -800 isn't selling at all.


A330 is a twin engine aircraft vastly cheaper to operate and EI doesn't need the range or capacity from the 747, and you can get a fully laden A330-200 off Dublin and in fact you can get off the short runway to most destinations

The real question is why did EI go with A330 and not 777... both appeared around the safe time. Bernie Cahill EI CEO at the time pulled a serious behind the scenes move and EI got a steal of a deal on EI-DUB and EI-SNN from Airbus at that time the A330 was really a domestic European aircraft EI did the legwork for the certification to get ETOPS so it could fly the North Atlantic without concern for diversion times. The cost savings from going from 747 to 330 was immense and immediate, no more flight engineer and 2 fewer engines, less than half the fuel needed

ohigg84

goingnowhere wrote: »

747 is dead basically, the -800 isn't selling at all.


A330 is a twin engine aircraft vastly cheaper to operate and EI doesn't need the range or capacity from the 747, and you can get a fully laden A330-200 off Dublin and in fact you can get off the short runway to most destinations

The real question is why did EI go with A330 and not 777... both appeared around the safe time. Bernie Cahill EI CEO at the time pulled a serious behind the scenes move and EI got a steal of a deal on EI-DUB and EI-SNN from Airbus at that time the A330 was really a domestic European aircraft EI did the legwork for the certification to get ETOPS so it could fly the North Atlantic without concern for diversion times. The cost savings from going from 747 to 330 was immense and immediate, no more flight engineer and 2 fewer engines, less than half the fuel needed

Except for the Freighter variant, there is still life for it.

California Dreamer

goingnowhere wrote: »

Bernie Cahill EI CEO at the time pulled a serious behind the scenes move and EI got a steal of a deal on EI-DUB and EI-SNN from Airbus at that time the A330 was really a domestic European aircraft EI did the legwork for the certification to get ETOPS so it could fly the North Atlantic without concern for diversion times. The cost savings from going from 747 to 330 was immense and immediate, no more flight engineer and 2 fewer engines, less than half the fuel needed

It would be nice to hear some more about the history involved in the move to the 330.

goingnowhere

Air Inter went on a shopping spree and ordered way more than it could ever need. Airbus then had a lot of hulls with no home so the price was good

EI-SNN/DUB/CRK all appeared very quickly as a result.

California Dreamer

goingnowhere wrote: »

Air Inter went on a shopping spree and ordered way more than it could ever need. Airbus then had a lot of hulls with no home so the price was good

EI-SNN/DUB/CRK all appeared very quickly as a result.

Just did a quick wiki about Air Inter. I see they were the launch customer for the A333. 4 in the fleet, 3 went to Sabena and 1 to EI as EI-ORD.

Which led me to this thread:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056217019

goingnowhere

Air Inter had orders for 5 and 15 options

DUB/SNN/CRK were early hulls the serial numbers are shared with the A340 so 54/55/70 is more than 9/10/30

The CF6 engine didn't have any issues unlike the PW and RR which had issue delaying introduction

Thai had a big order as well but delayed its order a bit

Karl8415

Hi everyone,new to this site but have watched it closely for sometime as I used to work with aer lingus but will always have a keen interest on the expansion and fleet within the airline.My question it based on the Q2 results iag released today it was also said that EI will announce 2 new transatlantic routes imminently so has anyone any idea of these routes and also would this single more 330’s on the way r wud they b penciled in for the 321 lr’s

California Dreamer

Karl8415 wrote: »

so has anyone any idea of these routes

Discussed at great lengths in other threads!!!

Commmmmmmmmme on Las Vegas!!!!!! :D:D:D

(Never going to happen but its nice to wind up others!!!! :eek::eek::D:D)

basill

Rumour is 2 A330s this year. A321s won't be ready till October 2019 at the earliest in which case probably kicked into touch till the following summer as no demand for them over the winter. Potential for more A330s next year to fill the gap and further expand. To where nobody knows as yet.

Karl8415

330’s makes sense because Aer lingus CEO did say they were looking to commence new routes in July 2019,it’s going to be interesting to see where the aircraft come from because I was of the opinion that ( EWR ) lease was expiring in 2019 plus I taught they might look at moving ( LAX ) on also as it’s 20 years old in 2019,unless there sounding Qatar out for more 200’s as they release them

4 more 330’s according to rumours floating around

Tenger

Deleted User wrote: »

4 more 330’s according to rumours floating around

Bloody hell.
They have 12/13 in service now?

Bussywussy

Tenger wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

4 more 330’s according to rumours floating around

Bloody hell.
They have 12/13 in service now?

13 I think.....jesus 4!!! I haven't heard that...I heard deffo 1 so far and 2nd isn't gauranteed,they are not Qatar machines either...


As for routes...usual rumours apply Dallas,Denver,Montreal and Minneapolis.

john boye

Tenger wrote: »

Bloody hell.
They have 12/13 in service now?

Some would surely be replacements if it's that many?

Jamie2k9

Second hand A330 market should mean good deals with A350 deliveries taking place to major carriers. Would expect 300 is what they want not 200.

Van.Bosch

Tenger wrote: »

Bloody hell.
They have 12/13 in service now?

The ROIC at Aer Lingus is by far the strongest in the IAG group from today’s results, this is been driven by TATL so I could see IAG backing them. 3 or 4 plus the A321’s does sound like a lot though.

Tenger

basill wrote: »

........A321s won't be ready till October 2019 at the earliest in which case probably kicked into touch till the following summer as no demand for them over the winter..........

That’s a pretty bad delay for what isn’t a radical redesign of an existing frame.
Was delivery to EI planned for April/May?
Any idea on the reason for the delay, I had read about it online but can’t recall if a reason was given.

kevinandrew

Tenger wrote: »

basill wrote: »

........A321s won't be ready till October 2019 at the earliest in which case probably kicked into touch till the following summer as no demand for them over the winter..........

That’s a pretty bad delay for what isn’t a radical redesign of an existing frame.
Was delivery to EI planned for April/May?
Any idea on the reason for the delay, I had read about it online but can’t recall if a reason was given.

The aircraft were always Q2 delivery dates so you are correct in saying April/May arrivals, the latest rumour I'd heard was this had slipped by two months so at worst we were looking at July/August so not sure where October at the earliest has come from but it wouldn't surprise me. 

The issues relate to the engine manufactures not delivering units fast enough to Airbus, this resulted in numerous "gliders" sitting around Toulouse fully painted and ready to go but just waiting for engines. Apparently this issue has eased considerably in recent weeks...

Aer Lingus is currently refining the service and product design for the A321LR aircraft.

HTCOne

Airbus shelved studies for an A322 with larger wings and stretched fuselage as a direct result of the engine issues in order to try increase production to reduce the backlog. They’re also doing a study on building a 5th final assembly line in Malaysia.

Both engines on offer for the NEO (Pratt GTF and CFM Leap) suffered severe problems upon entry into service, ETOPS certification was removed from one due a number of failures in flight and the other required 90 minute turnarounds to cool down enough to operate the next flight, can’t remember which was which though. The assembly lines ground to a standstill while these problems were fixed.

WW is on record with his displeasure at the delay in BA receiving NEOs, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s seriously turning the screw on Airbus right now for discounts on new frames, he walked away from an order for more A380s for BA earlier in the year also.

Skuzchad

Bussywussy wrote: »

13 I think.....jesus 4!!! I haven't heard that...I heard deffo 1 so far and 2nd isn't gauranteed,they are not Qatar machines either...


As for routes...usual rumours apply Dallas,Denver,Montreal and Minneapolis.

Hopefully a southern city like Houston,Dallas or maybe New orleans or something .would love a direct service to Houston to visit friends .

Anybody know when they might announce the new routes for 2019 ??

Bussywussy

Bussywussy wrote: »

13 I think.....jesus 4!!! I haven't heard that...I heard deffo 1 so far and 2nd isn't gauranteed,they are not Qatar machines either...


As for routes...usual rumours apply Dallas,Denver,Montreal and Minneapolis.

Like every rumour always take with with a truck load of salt. No timescale on deliveries.

Yes there is capacity available but not at peak times. Peak times are at capacity and there is lulls in traffic still. It requires EI to actually schedule more TAs later in the afternoon and evening than they currently do to avail of them.

basill

Or throw their weight around with the DAA. There is no point in being the largest operator at your home base if it cannot be used to your advantage.

trellheim

Aer Lingus is currently refining the service and product design for the A321LR aircraft.

What on earth does that mean, they are airplanes . They take people places. If they are TATL there will likely be expensive seats up the front. There; thats most of the job done.

Locker10a

trellheim wrote: »

Aer Lingus is currently refining the service and product design for the A321LR aircraft.

What on earth does that mean, they are airplanes . They take people places. If they are TATL there will likely be expensive seats up the front. There; thats most of the job done.

A little bit more than that goes into it, seats, cabin layout, position of toilets and galleys, gallery layout, including ovens and stowages etc these are all things Airlines can customise and must decide on when they’re receiving brand new aircraft from a manufacturer, among a list of probably one hundred other things

smurfjed

Yep but these things are usually decided during contract negotiations as they cost money.

Tenger

Skuzchad wrote: »

................
Anybody know when they might announce the new routes for 2019 ??

The article quotes WW saying "2-3 weeks". That might be an optimistic estimate though.

Tenger

Tenger wrote: »

The article quotes WW saying "2-3 weeks". That might be an optimistic estimate though.

I think previously when something similar was stated it ended up being the equivalent in months rather than weeks.

Karl8415

Just been going though the internet to see what’s been said on those new TA routes due to be announced by EI and the 3 that keep coming up is Pittsburgh - Pennsylvania and Montreal,however one quote mentions a possible city in the mid west but again I’ve only read this and these are not confirmed by any solid source

Tenger

I looked at the wEI route map on their website this morning, definitely a big gap in the Mid-West. Either one of Denver, Dallas or Houston would plug that hole.
Of course this methodology is purely visual!!!

Karl8415

Denver has raised its head a few times over the years as a possible destination,if I’m not mistaken I think I read before somewhere where they said cargo links would be strong on that route if it ever came on the network,so you never know,not so long ago Willie Walsh said during interview that he can see EI going east but he felt until freight carriage was sufficient then they wouldn’t,so there revenue with fright must be high

Karl8415

The 330’s have advanced so much since I worked with them because if you look at the likes of ( gcf gaj ) their MTOW is 242T,when I was there EI had ( JFK-CRK-SHN etc and their MTOW was 215T,that’s some difference so if freight was strong enough you could see them sticking 300’s on the routes and not 200’s,I remember in between EI-LAX and EI-EWR arrival into the fleet when they first started lax,EI-LAX went tech and they had to send SHN out to lax but it had to stop in buffalo if memory serves me right,so the new generation 300’s must be a great money earner for EI

goingnowhere

I'd imagine SFO will be made a -300 route
The issue with the -300 is only 2 have crew rests and some paperwork would be required on the other two new hulls to raise the MTOW as its cheaper on ATC costs to register a lower MTOW, if you are never going to use it

HTCOne

goingnowhere wrote: »

I'd imagine SFO will be made a -300 route
The issue with the -300 is only 2 have crew rests and some paperwork would be required on the other two new hulls to raise the MTOW as its cheaper on ATC costs to register a lower MTOW, if you are never going to use it

Do FNH & FNJ have the underfloor crew rests fitted?

goingnowhere

FNH & FNJ are not fitted
GAJ & GCF are fitted a seat 4 less in Y as a result to allow for the access door

joeysoap

cabin crew don’t like FNH and FNJ as their rest area is facing the toilets with the result their rest is disrupted.

Pat Dunne

joeysoap wrote: »

cabin crew don’t like FNH and FNJ as their rest area is facing the toilets with the result their rest is disrupted.

Ah yes another wonderful case of a desk bound planner making arrangements for Crew. Without any prior consultation and knowledge of how an aircraft works. It always warms the cockles of my heart to know that these clowns are on the big bucks!

Marcusm

Tenger wrote: »

I looked at the wEI route map on their website this morning, definitely a big gap in the Mid-West. Either one of Denver, Dallas or Houston would plug that hole.
Of course this methodology is purely visual!!!

Not sure what you mean by the Midwest but the denizens of those cities would likely Lynch you if you described them as being in the midwest. Denver and Dallas are both AA hubs.

Locker10a

Anyone know why a Titan 737 was operating flights to LGW today

Third_Echelon

goingnowhere wrote: »

I'd imagine SFO will be made a -300 route
The issue with the -300 is only 2 have crew rests and some paperwork would be required on the other two new hulls to raise the MTOW as its cheaper on ATC costs to register a lower MTOW, if you are never going to use it

It has been a -300 on the route for a good while with a -200 every so often (every tuesday?).

flange888

@Locker10a might be as a result of one of the A320's gone tech during such busy period

Tenger

Marcusm wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by the Midwest but the denizens of those cities would likely Lynch you if you described them as being in the midwest.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I wasnt sure how to describe that area. "West of the MidWest" or "Inland of the West Coast"

Pete2k

Looks like they've cancelled today's EI111 jfk flight from Shannon and sent the 757 to Dublin to cover the Newark flight... except for the 100 or so being sent to a hotel