Pro12: Leinster vs Zebre, RDS, 20/02/15 19:35pm, TG4

Tobyglen

mrpdap wrote: »

Most undeserved bp ever. Nigel did his best to get it for them and got his way.
Well done Aer Lingus

Owens nearly had to score the try for them at the end. He ran a few beautiful lines aswell, better than any of those Leinster backs.

Swan Curry

Now I have to add UCD and Aer Lingus to my Nigel Owens Bias Conspiracy Wall Chart. Not sure how this affects my John Murray theory, I'll report back in the morning.

CatFromHue

Tobyglen wrote: »

Owens nearly had to score the try for them at the end. He ran a few beautiful lines aswell, better than any of those Leinster backs.

suuuuuuuuure he did

Zebre didn't give any penalties away at all at all

beertons

Final score?

Kanrith

beertons wrote: »

Final score?

29-8 to Leinster.

A-Train

We made hard, hard work of that! At least bp in the end.

Tobyglen

CatFromHue wrote: »

suuuuuuuuure he did

Zebre didn't give any penalties away at all at all

Believe or not both teams did. It normally happens this way.

S12b

Luke Fitz got MOTM and ya he did lots of nice things but Sean Cronin was the real MOTM of the match there......generated more go forward in 35 minutes than the entire pack (Conan aside) did in the first 55.....mother of god he's some beasht!!

And since when can Luke Fitzgerald speak feckin Irish??? :eek:

errlloyd

S12b wrote: »

Luke Fitz got MOTM and ya he did lots of nice things but Sean Cronin was the real MOTM of the match there......generated more go forward in 35 minutes than the entire pack (Conan aside) did in the first 55.....mother of god he's some beasht!!

And since when can Luke Fitzgerald speak feckin Irish??? :eek:

He's had plenty of time to learn new skills.

Big Nelly

Tobyglen wrote: »

Nigel Owens was farcical in the end. Usual favorable referring of Irish Provinces. The Honorary Doctorate he received from UCD is paying dividends.

:P:P:P:P

Post of the day

The Lost Sheep

S12b wrote: »

Luke Fitz got MOTM and ya he did lots of nice things but Sean Cronin was the real MOTM of the match there......generated more go forward in 35 minutes than the entire pack (Conan aside) did in the first 55.....mother of god he's some beasht!!

And since when can Luke Fitzgerald speak feckin Irish??? :eek:

Was SC really?
Luke is fluent and has spoken to media before about the promotion/lack of promotion of irish

Heroditas

Luke's been steeped in Irish since he was a kid and went to a naonaire

total former

Would have been nice to have that wrapped up long before it was but fair play to Zebre, they didn't throw in the towel and fought like dogs to keep us out.

So many knockons but a lot to be positive about.

Fitzgerald looked so good. He won't be involved against England but every game he stays fit is a bonus.

D'Arcy was excellent, that inside pass to Kirchner's shin aside. Kirchner himself wasn't very involved I thought, we could maybe have seen Kearney sooner. Te'o is growing into it but still held on too long or passed too early a couple of times.

Gopperth had a poor first half but improved in the second. Reddan did OK, as did Boss.

Up front, Bent was excellent, thought Ryan was very good too. Jennings started very well but faded a bit. Not sure we can really judge either of the two young lads.

But Cronin, my word.

Overall lots of good individual performances but just a few final passes not sticking or silly turnovers given away. Lots of inventive rugby and nice offloads but frustrating to watch.

The Zebre try should be priority #1 for the video review, starting with the awful kick by McFadden but more importantly the total lack of hustle by most of the team to get across and cover.

On one hand, Zebre were a little bit better than expected. On the other hand, we were a shapeless mess of a side.

The players at disposal this evening could and should run a team like Scotland close, and instead we can't breakdown a semi amateur side for 60 minutes.

I really look for the positives with Leinster this seasons as I hate pointing blame at anything other than the other team being better.

Oddly enough if we went 23 up in the first half and finished with the same score people wouldn't complain nearly as much which is the type of gloss that got us through last season.

.ak

Whilst I'm clearly the leader of the Luke Fitz fanclub I'm still scratching my head as to why Darce didn't get MoTM. I suppose that sort of work rate can go unnoticed, but IBF said before the game that he's the hardest worker off the ball in our backs, and he was right. The guy played a blinder, his work rate was outstanding. At one point I counted 3 consecutive tackles, to convince your body to get off the deck and do that was insane. He was clearing out players better than a lot of our pack, and good s decision making on the ball was faultless. Okay, it wasn't an error free performance but neither was Luke's.

In short, Gordon D'arcy is my boards.ie man if the match. The medal's in the post Gordon.

Fireball07

S12b wrote: »

And since when can Luke Fitzgerald speak feckin Irish??? :eek:

Always, I think.

My Leinster cousins went to some Leinster event before in a club or school or something and he was there speaking fluent Irish. About 5 or so years ago, so not a new thing anyway.

Clegg

Just back from the game. Will need to watch a replay of the game, but from I was sat it looked like Dom Ryan blew at least one try. Crabbed across the pitch when straightening and passing would've led to a score. Wasn't impressed.

Someone who did impress tho was D'arcy. Played like a man who had a point to prove.

thomond2006

I was very impressed by Ben T'eo. I think he will turn out to be a great signing.

durkadurka

thomond2006 wrote: »

I was very impressed by Ben T'eo. I think he will turn out to be a great signing.

Did you see him knock on one hundred and eighty nine times last week

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

I was very impressed by Ben T'eo. I think he will turn out to be a great signing.

He doesn't look like someone who is new to Union anyway. He looks like he'll be a great player for us.

vienne86

Just home - it was bloody freezing in the RDS and lots of empty seats.

First 50 minutes was so frustrating. Lots of possession. Lots of passing left right left....but no one seemed to be able to straighten, so a lot of huffing and puffing with very little forward momentum. We were so close to the try line in the first half and no one seemed to have any ideas about how to get over the line. Some poor, looping passes too. Ane these aimless kicks upfield with no one to contest did my head in.

Very hard to see how a lot of the forwards played from the North stand. But the arrival on Cronin and Healy made a hell of a difference. In the backs, I though D'Arcy was excellent, and T'eo is looking like a good signing. Fitz was very classy, and Ferg had a good night. Kirchner was quiet, and I would have liked to see the tangarine boots come on sooner. Reddan had a slow start, but sharpened up particularly in the second half. Not one of Gopperth's better nights - he seemed short of ideas about how to get the back line going.

But a BP win was got........very late.....we should have had it in the bag much sooner.

A lot of frustration there tonight, and performances like that will not be good for sales of season tickets for next season.

.ak

durkadurka wrote: »

Did you see him knock on one hundred and eighty nine times last week

Honestly I think that's harsh. It was pissing rain and he was trying to run onto the ball with aggression, after a long time out... He put those doubts out of the minds tonight, I thought. He's already proven to be a great signing. He's linked well with our other centres and whilst he has a tonne to learn if you told me this was one of his first few union appearances without knowing it I'd laugh at you. His switch with Luke was very impressive, I had a great view of it and what impressed me is he was milliseconds from bein tackled and he managed to keep his eyes wide on all the options. The best players can do that, keep a cool head and slow things down when most would panic. A new player to the game would stick the ball under their arm and take the simple carry, and as such a strong carrier you'd forgive him for doing it, but instead he was alert to the switch and timed it beautifully.

I can very much see him being our starting 13 or 12 next season if he keeps it up.

.ak

Hell, I'll say it: T'eo has taken to Union better than Burgress already.

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He doesn't look like someone who is new to Union anyway. He looks like he'll be a great player for us.

You can see it at ruck time, I saw a few times tonight lads half his size were blowing him off the ball quite easily.

Hopefully a run of games will stiffen him up in that area.

SaveOurLyric

Clegg wrote: »

Will need to watch a replay of the game

The post that broke boards.ie

durkadurka

Last week I wanted to kill teo because of his handling errors, and then I saw the two minute highlights and he looked like a hero for his line breaks . Rugby highlights can be very frustrating and misleading.


Only saw second half tonight and he did look good.

Podge_irl

Teo has many, many problems with his game. But he also has enormous potential. Given his limited game time I think he has adapted rather well. He provides some serious go forward in midfield.

.ak

Just a few thoughts on the game. I think our biggest enemy was, once again, ourselves. It's not all doom and gloom, but I have to say what IBF was saying last week made sense tonight. I know it might not have at the time but some things rang true for me tonight. We very much looked to our onfield leaders on the pitch to make the decisions rather than relying on a set structure. It was evident in how loose we played compared to last week. We were far less structured and that was down to how the halfbacks dictated the game. I thought Reddan was poor, he made some awful decisions going forward, the pass to Jennings when his 10 was lining up the backline for an overlap on the 40th minute was criminal. And then there was the multitude of poor decisions Jennings made. Our three on field directors were Reddan, jimmy and Jennings and they all struggled. Now, is the right call to leave the structure up to the players? Not sure, but that's a debate for another day, but for now I can see the point IBF was making.

Secondly, whilst we seemed to be struggling, I have to say some things really killed some positive pressure for us... And unfortunately Jennings was culpable for three momentum shifters. He had another very poor game today in the sense it really, really hurt us. I hate to say it but he certainly picked the right time to retire. Hopefully it's been the long lay off that's hurt his skillset and handling, and hopefully his blowing off those cobwebs as we'll badly need the old Jenno for the run in.

After that it's pretty positive. Zebre never really had a foothold in the game and despite being ahead they never played Any rugby.

We were too loose in the first half, we actually attacked better in the dragons game, but I thought our backline played very well. Bring in rob for ZK and that could be our European backline next season, especially if Darce cam roll back the years like that. He really was motm for me. He did a better job on the deck then Jenno did anyway.

Luke was awesome though. And I had a feeling he'd get motm and bag a try, you could see it coming. He's a better winger than centre if I'm being honest but he let himself down on a few things. Especially under high ball, which means he probably won't feature in joe's plans.

I actually though ZK had a good game. Positionally sound, a massive boot and stood in at 1st receiver competently at times. A great effort for an injury returnee, especially considering the injury.

I really like DK but he knocks on in contact more often than not, needs to improve his ball retention if he's to keep his European jersey if I'm being honest.

Ferg was a beast as usual, had a great game I thought but that kick was a brain fart, and would a j5 player would've been scalded for that.

Reddan was poor enough but very much expected from a scrumhalf returning from injury. Probably tried to hard after watching dragons, wanted to take the game by the scruff but just didn't happen.


There were some heroes in the pack for us though. Dippy, Bent, Maccer, Douglas, Conan in particular all had a field day carrying. Then Healy and Cronin came on and blew them off the park. Cronin could've been motm. He wanted to kill that try line and was getting to it no matter the cost. They were the winning of it.

LeinsterDub

.ak wrote: »

Hell, I'll say it: T'eo has taken to Union better than Burgress already.

Great that's like saying lead floats in water more than gold

.ak

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Great that's like saying lead floats in water more than gold

I know I know, but considering very few do convert well, and the hype around Sam...

Buer

Only got to see the final 25 minutes and the biggest stand out was simply how awful we are at ruck time. Absolutely no cohesion and someone like Ryan was utterly non existent on our own ball.

Will watch full game tomorrow to have a more educated moan.

molloyjh

That was an interesting game in many ways. I'm nowhere near as dejected as I was last week obviously as we got the result. There were some real positives in that second half, but that first half was awful. Truly awful.

First the positives. Luke was excellent. I think he was the first guy in a wide channel to cut back inside when those inside him were crabbing across. Te'o isn't fully up to speed yet, but he's certainly getting there fast. He looks like he'll turn out to be a class signing. Darce was good for the most part, but he made a few errors too. Sean Cronin was simply fantastic when he came in and Healy made a real impact too. I thought McCarthy and Douglas both did a lot of the physical stuff with zeal. I actually liked what I saw from Molony though too.

And while there have been some hysterical comments about the coaches, here and on the terrace, we also need to recognise a few things. In the first 35 minutes Zebre lost 3 players, including their starting and replacement out-halves. They had to play the rest of the game with 2 scrummies at 9 and 10. Not only that but after their try most of them were exhausted. The number of them that looked shattered coming off at half time was striking. Their right wing was injured and hobbling for at least 50 minutes himself, at one stage, having to go into the scrum due to injury issues in the pack. They are the worst side in the league and they were devastated with injuries and fitness issues.

And despite all of this we could only manage 3 points in a first half that saw us crab across field repeatedly and do such a bad job of executing some of the basics. Some of the passing was simply unacceptable for example. We had massive issues with our basic skills last season and I thought we had addressed those to some degree, but based on that display there's lots still to do in that regard. Again the coaches were pointing the lads to the corner for kickable penalties and again we were butchering those opportunities. In the first half how long did we spend in the Zebre 22 before finally having to settle for 3 points? How many times did we go to the corner and make a balls of it? And how many times did Zebre play us back into it through ill discipline? Even with an improved performance in the second half we needed a certain amount of stupidity and ill discipline from Zebre to bag the TBP in the last minute of the game.

Players like Healy, Cronin, Darce and Luke played a massive role in a much improved second half display. Surely now the big worry, after last week and that first half, is how are we going to get results away from home in the next 2 weeks againt much better teams without those internationals available to us?

Skid X

No more Ryanair problems for Nigel from now on!

https://twitter.com/Nigelrefowens/status/568891788838211584

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

I know I know, but considering very few do convert well, and the hype around Sam...

Given the respective amount of game time the two have had I think it's def fair to say Te'o has worked out the better so far.

Buer wrote: »

Only got to see the final 25 minutes and the biggest stand out was simply how awful we are at ruck time. Absolutely no cohesion and someone like Ryan was utterly non existent on our own ball.

Will watch full game tomorrow to have a more educated moan.

I noticed Dippy limping with about 15 to go. Not sure how long he'd been injured for but he definitely wasn't right for the last 15.

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

Given the respective amount of game time the two have had I think it's def fair to say Te'o has worked out the better so far.



I noticed Dippy limping with about 15 to go. Not sure how long he'd been injured for but he definitely wasn't right for the last 15.

I couldn't tell who it was, but if it was Ryan he was limping badly for the last 15. He managed to get to the point where he was getting from ruck to ruck but he was not in a good way.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

I couldn't tell who it was, but if it was Ryan he was limping badly for the last 15. He managed to get to the point where he was getting from ruck to ruck but he was not in a good way.

That was Ryan. There's no way he'd have been left on if we hadn't used both Molony and Leavy at that stage. He was hobbling about badly. He still put himself about a bit and got on the ball once or twice, but as you said he wasn't right.

vienne86

molloyjh wrote: »

And despite all of this we could only manage 3 points in a first half that saw us crab across field repeatedly and do such a bad job of executing some of the basics. Some of the passing was simply unacceptable for example. We had massive issues with our basic skills last season and I thought we had addressed those to some degree, but based on that display there's lots still to do in that regard. Again the coaches were pointing the lads to the corner for kickable penalties and again we were butchering those opportunities. In the first half how long did we spend in the Zebre 22 before finally having to settle for 3 points? How many times did we go to the corner and make a balls of it? And how many times did Zebre play us back into it through ill discipline? Even with an improved performance in the second half we needed a certain amount of stupidity and ill discipline from Zebre to bag the TBP in the last minute of the game.

Players like Healy, Cronin, Darce and Luke played a massive role in a much improved second half display. Surely now the big worry, after last week and that first half, is how are we going to get results away from home in the next 2 weeks againt much better teams without those internationals available to us?

You have nailed it for me here, molloy. Zebre are the worst team in the league, by some stretch, AND they had guys going off injured, AND we could only put 3 points on them in the first half. We should not have to call on marquee players like Healy, Cronin, D'Arcy and Fitz to get a BT win against Zebre.

I'm worried enough about the Bath game.

dub_skav

I hope Lancaster doesn't figure out who the best English qualified league convert from the rabbitohs is

molloyjh

vienne86 wrote: »

You have nailed it for me here, molloy. Zebre are the worst team in the league, by some stretch, AND they had guys going off injured, AND we could only put 3 points on them in the first half. We should not have to call on marquee players like Healy, Cronin, D'Arcy and Fitz to get a BT win against Zebre.

I'm worried enough about the Bath game.

We've Ospreys and Scarlets away with a weakened team first. Lose one if those and a top 4 finish becomes a big ask. Then we've Glasgow at home. I'm not even thinking about the Bath game yet as we've 3 must wins between now and then...

irishbucsfan

vienne86 wrote: »

You have nailed it for me here, molloy. Zebre are the worst team in the league, by some stretch, AND they had guys going off injured, AND we could only put 3 points on them in the first half. We should not have to call on marquee players like Healy, Cronin, D'Arcy and Fitz to get a BT win against Zebre.

I'm worried enough about the Bath game.

I don't like how we played them in the first half. However we were considerably better than them and we were dominant during that half. They scored a try against the run of play and Conan had a golden scoring opportunity taken away from him, if those two things had been reversed the scoreboard could have looked much more complimentary.

I think our real problem is that we gave them far too much respect and looked to take control of the game. We did that and had all the possession and did pretty well in retaining it (had a couple of penalties against us I flat out disagreed with).

Instead of sitting on possession and going through so many phases we should have been pinning them right back in their 22 and forcing them to try to play out of their half. Once we were starting with possession deeper in their territory we should have been playing some high risk rugby. We don't need to take a team like this through 10 phases to wear them down, we should have been either kicking the ball or trying something really aggressive (cross field kicks, chips, short side attacks, wingers coming in etc) much earlier than that on each possession.

In the end we came away with a bonus point, and it doesn't really reflect at all how we're going to go against better opposition so it's not massively worrying to me.

rrpc

People don't seem to be making allowances for the fact that this was a very makeshift Leinster team. How many players just back from injury? How many just back from Ireland camp and how many still away?

Along with the negatives, there were plenty of positives but the disruption must be really difficult to deal with both on and off the field.

thebaz

Buer wrote: »

Only got to see the final 25 minutes and the biggest stand out was simply how awful we are at ruck time. Absolutely no cohesion and someone like Ryan was utterly non existent on our own ball.

Will watch full game tomorrow to have a more educated moan.

Sometimes the negativity here can be too much , God forbid when we start losing

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't like how we played them in the first half. However we were considerably better than them and we were dominant during that half. They scored a try against the run of play and Conan had a golden scoring opportunity taken away from him, if those two things had been reversed the scoreboard could have looked much more complimentary.

I think our real problem is that we gave them far too much respect and looked to take control of the game. We did that and had all the possession and did pretty well in retaining it (had a couple of penalties against us I flat out disagreed with).

Instead of sitting on possession and going through so many phases we should have been pinning them right back in their 22 and forcing them to try to play out of their half. Once we were starting with possession deeper in their territory we should have been playing some high risk rugby. We don't need to take a team like this through 10 phases to wear them down, we should have been either kicking the ball or trying something really aggressive (cross field kicks, chips, short side attacks, wingers coming in etc) much earlier than that on each possession.

In the end we came away with a bonus point, and it doesn't really reflect at all how we're going to go against better opposition so it's not massively worrying to me.

Ah now come on IBF, we retained the ball well in the first half? What about all the knock ons? I'd expect us to have been the better side. We were at home against the worst side in the league who themselves were badly disrupted with players away to Italy and then the injuries they had during the game. If we weren't the better side then we'd be in even bigger trouble than we thought. That should have been a given yesterday.

My biggest complaint last week was the way the coaches insisted on going to the corner from a kickable penalty when we were losing the game. It's something I feel cost us badly against the Dragons and they were at it again yesterday. Was it 3 penalties into the corner that led to nothing before they decided to go for the posts on the forth? That was an painfully depressing and wasted passage of play.

And what about our execution of some of the basics of the game (passing and receiving the ball). Or our crabbing across field in the first half? Or the mess that is our maul? We even lost a couple of scrums against the head because we don't want to hook. We know we can hook, Cronin was doing so against France, so it must be a tactic.

Without Healy, Cronin, Moore, Reddan (and/or Boss), Darce and Luke how do you see us winning away to Ospreys or Scarlets given how important those guys were to us yesterday?

The entire 80 last week was bad enough, I actually think the first half yesterday was an improvement in some areas (our kicking wasn't as bad) but much worse in others (ball in hand it was only a matter of time before we made a mistake). The second half was a good deal better, but still wasn't great. And it was largely driven by internationals that we won't have in the next 2 games.

Tox56

thebaz wrote: »

Sometimes the negativity here can be too much , God forbid when we start losing

Maybe I'm being whooshed but we lost last week

ssaye2

I'm negative when having attend ed every game and players don't play to their potential. Sloppiness annoys me in the heat of the moment.
Cronin was immense. The first half in their 22 was Terrible bar the scrum. Bent is very important.
Thank got for the final result.

It's a frustrating watch when you know we are a knock on or a dropped pass from clicking and hammering someone.

Certainly are positives in the cold light of day but when all the hard work in a play is undone by poor play or constant mistakes I get pissed.

In anyway onwards and upwards

irishbucsfan

It was nowhere near as bad as you're making out molloy, there weren't a particularly large number of knockons in the first half, and we had something like 65-70% possession by half time. We did knock on the ball, but we went through a large number of phases and were pretty confident in keeping the ball. There wasn't anything there that was mechanically wrong, it was just the decision to play in that manner that I had a problem with.

Also I don't think they ever kicked for the corner at a time they shouldn't have, at all. If anything they could have considered a scrum but they certainly made the right decision to attack from that position in the corner.

thebaz

Tox56 wrote: »

Maybe I'm being whooshed but we lost last week

teams do loose - especially teams missing all there frontline players , and a team in transition , probably the best team in Irish history , and up there with top ever in Europe. I just find the constant never-ending moaning tiresome . Used to enjoy coming on here even sharing the odd thought.
MOC is on a hiding to nothing here . Just a little perspective would be nice.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It was nowhere near as bad as you're making out molloy, there weren't a particularly large number of knockons in the first half, and we had something like 65-70% possession by half time. We did knock on the ball, but we went through a large number of phases and were pretty confident in keeping the ball. There wasn't anything there that was mechanically wrong, it was just the decision to play in that manner that I had a problem with.

Also I don't think they ever kicked for the corner at a time they shouldn't have, at all. If anything they could have considered a scrum but they certainly made the right decision to attack from that position in the corner.

I'll watch it back so, but from where I was looking I thought we turned over possession through unforced errors a lot in the first half.

As for going for the corner, if that had not been an issue last week it wouldn't have bothered me. But I said it when we went to the corner the first time yesterday that we should have gone for the 3 because we weren't going to get the try. I based that on what I saw last week. And lo and behold I was right. Maybe if you'd seen the game last week you'd have understood where I was coming from. But that decision can only be vindicated with a try. We didn't get one, so it clearly wasn't the right call. And we only got the 3 in the end yesterday due to consistent Zebre infringements. Had they been more disciplined we'd have come away with nothing, just like last week.

As for the comment above about going through phases too much I think that was a reaction to last week. We pinned ourselves back in our half a lot with a poor kicking game against the Dragons and they obviously didn't want a repeat of that this week.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

As for going for the corner, if that had not been an issue last week it wouldn't have bothered me. But I said it when we went to the corner the first time yesterday that we should have gone for the 3 because we weren't going to get the try. I based that on what I saw last week. And lo and behold I was right. Maybe if you'd seen the game last week you'd have understood where I was coming from. But that decision can only be vindicated with a try. We didn't get one, so it clearly wasn't the right call. And we only got the 3 in the end yesterday due to consistent Zebre infringements. Had they been more disciplined we'd have come away with nothing, just like last week.

See you're just wrong 100% with this, which is why your frustration is completely misplaced.

We got a penalty in the middle of the field from that kick to touch, which we then put over the posts. That completely vindicates the decision in itself. The fact we turned a penalty down in the corner into a penalty in front of the posts gives us value in multiple areas, for example a more certain chance of the points, multiple phases of forcing the opposition to defend on their line, and also forcing them to concede a penalty deep in their 22 (which is something a referee always remembers). The try is the desired outcome, but to say it's the ONLY outcome that vindicates the decision is incorrect, and the decision in this instance was the correct decision and had a positive outcome for us, it really should have contributed to an eventual Zebre card that never materialised.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

See you're just wrong 100% with this, which is why your frustration is completely misplaced.

We got a penalty in the middle of the field from that kick to touch, which we then put over the posts. That completely vindicates the decision in itself. The fact we turned a penalty down in the corner into a penalty in front of the posts gives us value in multiple areas, for example a more certain chance of the points, multiple phases of forcing the opposition to defend on their line, and also forcing them to concede a penalty deep in their 22 (which is something a referee always remembers). The try is the desired outcome, but to say it's the ONLY outcome that vindicates the decision is incorrect, and the decision in this instance was the correct decision and had a positive outcome for us, it really should have contributed to an eventual Zebre card that never materialised.

But any one of the previous 3 penalties would have given us those 3 points and done so a good deal earlier. The eventual penalty that we did get was not a direct result of going for the corner. Had Zebre been more disciplined in that area it wouldn't have been awarded. There was no guarantee at all that we would have gotten a penalty closer to the postsby going down the line. None. You're using hindsight there to justify a call that was made without that hindsight.