USA on a shoestring??!!?? (hopefully...please help!)

Bananaleaf

Yes, okay I see your point there. We don't know if the busses will be cancelled or not.

Well, that is something we just can't control. So, hopefully it doesn't happen but I guess in the worst case scenario that it does I suppose that we would have to get a hotel for that night and then journey out the next day. We would lose a day, yes and would have to pay out quite a bit for a last minute hotel and yes that wouldn't be ideal.

The one good thing for us is that it is USA on a shoestring out of choice, not necessity. We don't want to spend big, but we would have the money to cover things like emergency hotels or a fast train if we absolutely needed to be somewhere and our bus was cancelled. So with that in mind, a cancelled bus would throw our plan out a little, but we wouldn't stay in the bus station unless it was the only alternative left.

So - just to explain. It is on a shoestring, but doesn't have to be. We have plenty of funds to cover this trip if needed. It would be reckless to go to the USA on a small budget.
The car thing - I appreciate everyone's comments about how it won't cost as much as public transport, but really, our decision to not use a car is not based on finance.

Firstly, you can't buy a car in the US as a tourist as you've nowhere to register it to. Also I recall the last time there being something about the taxation of vehicles. Different states require different tax discs so you would end up having to retax or something as you go state to state. I'm sure I have the details of that wrong but there was something I remember.

I recall from renting vehicles previously, in USA and in Europe that it is a nerve wracking experience. You are afraid to leave it parked anywhere. In USA our rental was broken into in Orlando Florida AND Elizabeth, New Jersey. And this is the main reason to be honest as to why we don't want to rent a car is because of a dreadful experience we had in Europe with a rental. I know USA isn't Europe, but we just feel burned by car rentals.

The situation with Europe was that we rented the car and when we arrived to pick it up, company had changed name (red flag number one) we had paid for a GPS but they didn't have any left (red flag number two) they wanted a 1,500 deposit for the car which left us pretty tight for cash. We weren't expecting the security deposit to be so high as on website it had been described as much lower. Driving in that country, which was Italy by the way, was a horrendous experience. Neither pedestrians nor drivers have any concern for safety or the law. Vehicles drove at us, an emergency services vehicle, oh the ironies, almost drove us into a wall. The entire time our hearts were in our mouths. We were exhausted after driving trips and were tense and irritable with each other at times due to the stress. After a 7hr drive one day we slept for 14hrs due to severe mental exhaustion being on those roads. If that all weren't enough, when we dropped the car back, got the forms stating the car was returned in good order and got our 1500 back, we were only out of the country 10 mins, still on the runway when the rental company stole €500 from our card and we spent a year trying to get it back, filing fraud claims with the bank. We just about got the money back in time for our summer holiday the following year.

I know that our story may be an unusual one, but the experience is too fresh in our minds to even contemplate getting a car this summer.

Maybe in a year or two.

You are right about the busses though whitey. I guess we can't control whether they decide to run or not. We just hope that greyhound and its service has improved over time.

Paul_Hacket

You seem to have made your mind up, but if you rent from any of the reputable big names in the USA such as Budget or Enterprise you will not have to deal with any weirdness to do with deposits, etc. Your insurance will also cover any break ins, which to be honest are rare here.

Buses in the USA are godawful and trains aren't much better, and this is coming from the perspective of someone who LOVES traveling around Europe by train and public transport. Bus stations are nearly always in the worst part of town and upon arriving you will have the choice of either staying in a crappy/dangerous neighborhood or wasting time and money on more public transport to get to another neighborhood.

This is particularly true in the north east where you are traveling where long distance buses are generally only resorted to by the very poor and where Amtrak is hugely overpriced (e.g. $80+ on average for a trip such as New York to Boston) and generally ridiculously slow. Cars on the other hand can be rented for about $40 per day plus insurance.

Also, by relying on public transport you simply aren't going to be able to get to a lot of the parks, beaches, restaurants, etc you might like to visit.

PS - I've lived in the north east for 20 years and has had to travel around it a lot on work trips (I'm a consultant).

InTheTrees

Bananaleaf wrote: »

You are right about the busses though whitey. I guess we can't control whether they decide to run or not. We just hope that greyhound and its service has improved over time.

I've gone on and on about this in other threads; but doing a multi night train journey with a cabin is really fun. A great experience. There's something about falling asleep in a train thats kind of magical.

Amtrak are really good with their trains too. The cabins are clean, and well run and well attended.

Paul_Hacket

InTheTrees wrote: »

I've gone on and on about this in other threads; but doing a multi night train journey with a cabin is really fun. A great experience. There's something about falling asleep in a train thats kind of magical.

Amtrak are really good with their trains too. The cabins are clean, and well run and well attended.

Right, but the OP is talking about doing this trip "on a shoestring". Overnight cabins on Amtrak are usually a minimum of $200 per person per night, often a lot more. There are some great multi night trips/routes in the west and in Canada but in the region the OP is talking about, not so much.

Dubwat

About 15 years ago, I went around America on Amtrak. My memories are a bit vague so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

I can't remember the type of ticket I got but I was basically an inter-rail ticket for Amtrak. I'm Irish but was living in Cincinnati at the time.
So Cincinnatti - Chicago - Seattle - SF.
Bus to Los Angeles. Spent a bit of time with a relative in LA (side trips in car to San Diego & Mexico).
LA - El Paso - New Orleans.
Ran out of time so New Orleans - Chicago and then 'immigrated' back to Ireland

The distances are huge! It's 3 days from Chicago to Seattle. Seattle to S.F. over the Sierra mountains are something I'll never forget.

I slept in my seat on the train so saved money on not booking a cabin. Washed myself each morning in the toilet sink. At the end of each train journey, I'd book into a Best Western and have the longest bath! So, I was kinda only paying for accomodation every 3 days. It's a great way to meet 'real' Americans. One thing that stayed with me was how insular Americans are. The train would stop in some small town for fuel or whatever. On a 30min break, you'd buy the local paper and the main story would be 'Mary's cat still missing'

I'm the sort who's happy to wander about a foreign city and just take in what I'm seeing e.g, sit in a cafe with coffee and watch the world go by. Didn't do much drinking or nightclubbing on my American trip so YMMV.

I'm not sure I'd tour America in a car for insurance reasons. Have a crash and you could have huge (multi-million) bills for the car crash and the hospital if you end up there. And you'd probably spend a lot on your time on the motorway/interstates, not really seeing anything?

Anyways, that's my vague recollections from 15 years ago! Pinch of salt and all that Good luck on your trip!

P.S. I only skimmed the previous 3 pages. Don't think anyone mentioned AirBnB? That might be an option for cheap accomodation?

Bananaleaf

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

You seem to have made your mind up,

It's not that I am refusing to take advice, it's just that at this stage we have booked the busses in advance with greyhound, so doing a u-turn now and opting for a car will most definitely end up more expensive at this stage!

I am thankful for advice like yours though, because without it we would have also been heading south, where I am told that the public transport is even worse again.

Bananaleaf

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Right, but the OP is talking about doing this trip "on a shoestring". Overnight cabins on Amtrak are usually a minimum of $200 per person per night, often a lot more. There are some great multi night trips/routes in the west and in Canada but in the region the OP is talking about, not so much.

Yeah, initially this trip was an across Canada trip, but there is no way that was going to be doable. We were looking at the Rocky mountaineer train and oh my God, the cost!!

Bananaleaf

Dubwat wrote: »

About 15 years ago, I went around America on Amtrak. My memories are a bit vague so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

I can't remember the type of ticket I got but I was basically an inter-rail ticket for Amtrak. I'm Irish but was living in Cincinnati at the time.
So Cincinnatti - Chicago - Seattle - SF.
Bus to Los Angeles. Spent a bit of time with a relative in LA (side trips in car to San Diego & Mexico).
LA - El Paso - New Orleans.
Ran out of time so New Orleans - Chicago and then 'immigrated' back to Ireland

The distances are huge! It's 3 days from Chicago to Seattle. Seattle to S.F. over the Sierra mountains are something I'll never forget.

I slept in my seat on the train so saved money on not booking a cabin. Washed myself each morning in the toilet sink. At the end of each train journey, I'd book into a Best Western and have the longest bath! So, I was kinda only paying for accomodation every 3 days. It's a great way to meet 'real' Americans. One thing that stayed with me was how insular Americans are. The train would stop in some small town for fuel or whatever. On a 30min break, you'd buy the local paper and the main story would be 'Mary's cat still missing'

I'm the sort who's happy to wander about a foreign city and just take in what I'm seeing e.g, sit in a cafe with coffee and watch the world go by. Didn't do much drinking or nightclubbing on my American trip so YMMV.

I'm not sure I'd tour America in a car for insurance reasons. Have a crash and you could have huge (multi-million) bills for the car crash and the hospital if you end up there. And you'd probably spend a lot on your time on the motorway/interstates, not really seeing anything?

Anyways, that's my vague recollections from 15 years ago! Pinch of salt and all that Good luck on your trip!

P.S. I only skimmed the previous 3 pages. Don't think anyone mentioned AirBnB? That might be an option for cheap accomodation?

Thank you for your post - it is nice to read something a little more on the positive side

To be fair to the USA, they seem to be trying to improve things. Ive found some sites promoting the use of public transport


http://www.pubtrantravel.com/
I'm getting some ideas on Cleveland from this one.

http://www.visitphilly.com/getting-around/
Philadelphia with this one

Chicago, Boston, Washington DC will be fine to get around I'm sure. We don't drink and aren't into nightclubs either

Edit: thanks so much for the air bandb mention. I am also having a look at that.

whitey1

http://m.yelp.com/biz/greyhound-bus-lines-boston


You have been warned!

Uno my Uno.

The OP has clearly done a good bit of travelling so they know what they are doing but I would never intentionally take sleeping tablets on an overnight Greyhound. I have taken Buses between Boston, Philadelphia and NYC (and a few other places) over the years and they have always been unpleasant experiences. I suppose that is the difference between the OP an many of the rest of us, I would find driving much less stressful than sitting on a bus for several hours trying to sleep.

I also have to agree with the point about Bus stations being in the worst part of Town. The Greyhound Station in Philly was the worst example I remember, I've always had a bad impression of Philadelphia since being stuck there for a couple of hours on one occasion.

OP I really hope your trip works out for you, I suppose part of our differences is that I wouldn't want to travel in the US "on a shoestring", especially if It wasn't necessary to do so. On a budget yes but not on the absolute cheapest level because I wouldn't feel we would get to enjoy all that the US has to offer if we were trying to get by on a shoestring.

Bananaleaf

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

The OP has clearly done a good bit of travelling so they know what they are doing but I would never intentionally take sleeping tablets on an overnight Greyhound. I have taken Buses between Boston, Philadelphia and NYC (and a few other places) over the years and they have always been unpleasant experiences. I suppose that is the difference between the OP an many of the rest of us, I would find driving much less stressful than sitting on a bus for several hours trying to sleep.

I also have to agree with the point about Bus stations being in the worst part of Town. The Greyhound Station in Philly was the worst example I remember, I've always had a bad impression of Philadelphia since being stuck there for a couple of hours on one occasion.

OP I really hope your trip works out for you, I suppose part of our differences is that I wouldn't want to travel in the US "on a shoestring", especially if It wasn't necessary to do so. On a budget yes but not on the absolute cheapest level because I wouldn't feel we would get to enjoy all that the US has to offer if we were trying to get by on a shoestring.

Thank you very much for your reply.

Well, I guess 'on a shoestring is probably not the most accurate way to describe what we are after. Maybe that phrasing was a little dramatic. We wanted to do the trip and didn't want to use a car as stated previously and as you correctly pointed out, we would just find the bus less stressful than a car.

We intend to budget on the following things: accommodation and food.

The car thing is not a financial issue. We don't believe in expensive accommodation and rather spend the money on trips or museums.

You do have a very good point about the sleeping tablets and I had actually thought about this. I would rather have my wits about me tbh. I do still hope to be able to sleep while on the bus but if I can't, well, I can't.

About the stations being in bad parts of town, we would be hoping to either get linked by public transport from there to our accommodation or if that isn't possible then taxi. We are not staying in accommodation near the bus stations. We have opted for a mixture of hostels and airbnb accommodation, all on central parts of downtown and well reviewed.

Thank you all for your advice so far.

Bananaleaf

whitey1 wrote: »

http://m.yelp.com/biz/greyhound-bus-lines-boston


You have been warned!

Am I missing something here or are the majority of bad reviews here from people who either didn't arrive on time for their bus or wanted to swap busses having bought a ticket for a bus they no longer wanted to travel on.

I also checked out the greyhound Facebook page. Full of complaints about busses failing to turn up and leaving people stranded in feet upon feet of snow.

To be fair to greyhound, what are the supposed to do when the USA is having their worst weather in years. Our relative has been sending us pictures of the snow. I'm not saying you are like this whitey1 - but some people really do expect miracles!!

We know we won't be getting pillows, blankets and sparkling wine upon arrival. After all, you get what you pay for.

Having said all of that I am glad for the warnings. I think the more I brace myself for these trips, the more prepared I will be if things do go wrong.

Bananaleaf

By the way, I feel I should say this at the risk of seeming defiant if I don't mention it.

I'm not opposed to people's suggestions about trains a car etc. The fact is that we have booked and paid for all greyhound journeys already. We have also booked and paid refundable deposits on all accommodation. So, we couldn't even u-turn and opt for a car at this stage even if we wanted to!

whitey1

Most of the reviews were submitted prior to this winter so the weather is most likely not the culprit. I actually read reviews that are way worse than the Boston ones I linked in. One bus actually stopped outside a Federal penitentiary to pick up recently released inmates-LOL

The biggest issue I saw was that they oversell their busses and if you don't make the line too bad, you may have to wait 12 hours for the next one with no recourse or compensation. This routinely happens to people who are 1-2 hours early for heir bus because there's already a big line from the people who've been cut from the prior bus. Last time I was in the bus terminal in Boston, I saw the makings of an all out brawl brewing

Years ago I tooka bus to New Bedford MA. Fvckin DEA swarmed a car that picked up a passenger....real scary stuff....guns drawn....windows smashed with sledgehammer....car mounted the curb trying to evade...

Without sounding like a snob.....the folks who typically ride the bus are from the lowest socio economic rungs. Imagine taking an 8 hour bus ride with the types of scumbags you would find on the roughest Dublin Bus routes.....that's what you're in for (This is a generalization, before anyone jumps down my throat)

Bananaleaf

whitey1 wrote: »

Most of the reviews were submitted prior to this winter so the weather is most likely not the culprit. I actually read reviews that are way worse than the Boston ones I linked in. One bus actually stopped outside a Federal penitentiary to pick up recently released inmates-LOL

The biggest issue I saw was that they oversell their busses and if you don't make the line too bad, you may have to wait 12 hours for the next one with no recourse or compensation. This routinely happens to people who are 1-2 hours early for heir bus because there's already a big line from the people who've been cut from the prior bus. Last time I was in the bus terminal in Boston, I saw the makings of an all out brawl brewing

Years ago I tooka bus to New Bedford MA. Fvckin DEA swarmed a car that picked up a passenger....real scary stuff....guns drawn....windows smashed with sledgehammer....car mounted the curb trying to evade...

Without sounding like a snob.....the folks who typically ride the bus are from the lowest socio economic rungs. Imagine taking an 8 hour bus ride with the types of scumbags you would find on the roughest Dublin Bus routes.....that's what you're in for (This is a generalization, before anyone jumps down my throat)

Okay, fair enough I take this point.

And yes, that would be a very scary experience and one I'm not looking to encounter.

I can confirm actually that I contacted Greyhound and asked them about their ticket sales policy and they admitted to continuing to sell tickets "on the off chance that there will be cancellations/noshows" I did find that rather greedy and unnecessary.

I don't know .... Hopefully we get lucky or if we are delayedbits not by too much. yikes! Something to prepare myself for I guess

Paul_Hacket

Bananaleaf wrote: »

By the way, I feel I should say this at the risk of seeming defiant if I don't mention it.

I'm not opposed to people's suggestions about trains a car etc. The fact is that we have booked and paid for all greyhound journeys already. We have also booked and paid refundable deposits on all accommodation. So, we couldn't even u-turn and opt for a car at this stage even if we wanted to!

Why did you book and pay for the bus journeys already? In my experience for the kind of places you're talking about going they literally never fill up, least of all in that region in the summer. You don't save anything by booking in advance on Greyhound and by doing so you're locking yourself into a schedule and taking away your options once you're here.

Bananaleaf

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Why did you book and pay for the bus journeys already? In my experience for the kind of places you're talking about going they literally never fill up, least of all in that region in the summer. You don't save anything by booking in advance on Greyhound and by doing so you're locking yourself into a schedule and taking away your options once you're here.

The reason we booked and paid already was that we did two previous trips - one to south America and one to eastern Europe. We began both trips with a detailed "rough" itinerary. We didn't pre book anything though. In both cases we ended up sticking exactly to what we had initially planned in the rough itinerary.

This time, being restricted by the lack of a car, we felt that we would be less likely to stray from our plan. We haven't it all booked though, just the first 3 of 5 weeks. So I am thinking that journeys taken in the final two will be trains instead of busses!!

whitey1

Banana leaf....I have been reading so many great stories about Greyhound my sides are hurting from laughing. I almost feel like booking a trip, just for the craic

Please write a follow up when you get back...Id love to hear how you get on.

glassdaisies

Buses and trains here in the U.S. are absolute rubbish. You're better off renting a car, even if it's just one way, to get from city to city. If you've already booked it, I'm sure it won't be an issue, but for the future.. local airlines like southwest usually offer sales when you get a month or two out. I grew up in Buffalo, NY so I spent a lot of my weekends and summers in Niagara Falls and Toronto (the drinking age in New York is 21, in Canada it's 19, haha).

And you're correct, hostels are not really a thing in the U.S. When Ive traveled to Europe I was totally freaked out by the idea of staying in an open room with complete strangers! Defo check out airbnb for sure!!

I'll read through the thread and see of there's anything else i can offer you in terms of advice, but feel free to reply if you have any specific questions.

spideog7

Megabus would be a little better than Greyhound as far as buses go also.

You might be able to use Uber or Lyft too to get to and from your hotel, better than local taxis in most cities.

SHOVELLER

OP ignore the scare stories about bus journeys being death defying etc. I travel regularly along the east coast on them and have never had any problem (except the Christmas Eve bus going on fire near Philly:D) and am definitely not from any lower rung of any ladder.

Amtrak is much better but way more expensive unless booked way in advance. As an example I'm going to NY this saturday (how could you not like NY?!) and paid $52 one way which is very good value.

As for accommodation hostels are popular here and are plentiful in all the major cities. Airbnb is a good other choice and keep an eye out for hotels.com for last minuted deals.

rossie1977

SHOVELLER wrote: »

OP ignore the scare stories about bus journeys being death defying etc. I travel regularly along the east coast on them and have never had any problem (except the Christmas Eve bus going on fire near Philly:D) and am definitely not from any lower rung of any ladder.

greyhound are fine during the day but i wouldn't recommend overnight travel and this comes from personal experience. i would also do a little research into where the greyhound stations are located in the city you are arriving/leaving from...some are in really bad parts of town

Bananaleaf

rossie1977 wrote: »

greyhound are fine during the day but i wouldn't recommend overnight travel and this comes from personal experience. i would also do a little research into where the greyhound stations are located in the city you are arriving/leaving from...some are in really bad parts of town

Rossie - can I ask you what your experience on the night busses was like exactly and why you wouldn't reccommend it?

Thank you for sharing your experience

louiseber

This thread is utterly pointless. Literally every reply is telling OP "do not take the Greyhound" yet she is stubbornly determined to do so anyway. The USA is not Europe. Bus travel is not commonly used by the middle class. Hostels do not exist outside of East Coast cities infiltrated with European backpackers every Summer. For someone who claims to be so well-traveled, I would have expected you to know this.

whitey1 wrote: »

Without sounding like a snob.....the folks who typically ride the bus are from the lowest socio economic rungs. Imagine taking an 8 hour bus ride with the types of scumbags you would find on the roughest Dublin Bus routes.....that's what you're in for (This is a generalization, before anyone jumps down my throat)

This is very true. Only the poorest of the poor ride Greyhound because they've no other option. It's usually easy to spot the naive European tourist on the bus who didn't do their research - they're usually the only white person.

You'll need to keep an eye on your belongings for the entire bus journey so you'll be too afraid to sleep. The seats are too uncomfortable anyway, especially in the summer when your sweaty skin is rubbing up against the leather. Be prepared to be sitting next to an obese thug with tattoos on his face eating a greasy bucket of KFC. Make sure you're not sitting near the toilet at the back - the stench will make you gag. Please do come back and do a write-up on your experience with Greyhound. I'll get a good laugh reading it.

Uno my Uno.

louiseber wrote: »

This thread is utterly pointless. Literally every reply is telling OP "do not take the Greyhound" yet she is stubbornly determined to do so anyway. The USA is not Europe. Bus travel is not commonly used by the middle class. Hostels do not exist outside of East Coast cities infiltrated with European backpackers every Summer. For someone who claims to be so well-traveled, I would have expected you to know this.



This is very true. Only the poorest of the poor ride Greyhound because they've no other option. It's usually easy to spot the naive European tourist on the bus who didn't do their research - they're usually the only white person.

You'll need to keep an eye on your belongings for the entire bus journey so you'll be too afraid to sleep. The seats are too uncomfortable anyway, especially in the summer when your sweaty skin is rubbing up against the leather. Be prepared to be sitting next to an obese thug with tattoos on his face eating a greasy bucket of KFC. Make sure you're not sitting near the toilet at the back - the stench will make you gag. Please do come back and do a write-up on your experience with Greyhound. I'll get a good laugh reading it.

I've advised against the Greyhound but this is way over the top. There have been plenty of white people on every Greyhound I've taken, didn't spot a single facial Tattoo.

Bananaleaf

louiseber wrote: »

This thread is utterly pointless. Literally every reply is telling OP "do not take the Greyhound" yet she is stubbornly determined to do so anyway. The USA is not Europe. Bus travel is not commonly used by the middle class. Hostels do not exist outside of East Coast cities infiltrated with European backpackers every Summer. For someone who claims to be so well-traveled, I would have expected you to know this.



This is very true. Only the poorest of the poor ride Greyhound because they've no other option. It's usually easy to spot the naive European tourist on the bus who didn't do their research - they're usually the only white person.

You'll need to keep an eye on your belongings for the entire bus journey so you'll be too afraid to sleep. The seats are too uncomfortable anyway, especially in the summer when your sweaty skin is rubbing up against the leather. Be prepared to be sitting next to an obese thug with tattoos on his face eating a greasy bucket of KFC. Make sure you're not sitting near the toilet at the back - the stench will make you gag. Please do come back and do a write-up on your experience with Greyhound. I'll get a good laugh reading it.

I have to say you sound incredibly ignorant.

"For someone who claims to be so well travelled I would expect you to know that"??? Really? You would expect me to have experience and an opinion on something I haven't done before? Having been to Europe, south America and USA isn't exactly insular but it's not well travelled to the point that I think I know everything.

Also, I am not ignoring the advice I've been given. But if you had read the previous comments like you claim you would see that I have already booked and paid for my bus tickets.

This thread is not pointless. I am not in a position to write off the money my bus tickets cost me and change to trains. Car isn't an option in case you didn't read that either. So this thread had helped me to prepare myself for what I might experience.

Also, I have no problems with black people, have tattoos myself and like KFC ......

The only pointless part of this thread is your post to be honest. There is nothing helpful in it and it borders on racism too.

whitey1

I wouldn't get too upset. Do you not think the comments were somewhat tongue in cheek????

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OXWhKs5Ck

Anyway, with everything I have read about Greyhound, I d love to make a documentary, where with hidden camera in hand, I would travel the country on Greyhound and intentionally antagonize all those around me-drivers, ticket agents, fellow passengers-and then record their reactions

silja

**** Enough. There is no need to attack other posters; stick to answering the Op and be civil to eachother. ****

rossie1977

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Rossie - can I ask you what your experience on the night busses was like exactly and why you wouldn't reccommend it?

Thank you for sharing your experience

the overnight trip i went on was full of weird and not so wonderful characters. there was this one guy who liked telling everyone how many us prisons he has been in. another chap (mid to late 40s) who drank a full bottle of tequila and then passed out on the seat and another guy we picked up along the way who was still stuck in the summer of love era (literally :pac:)...remember these were just the people in the immediate vicinity of where i was on the bus

iusedtoknow

rossie1977 wrote: »

the overnight trip i went on was full of weird and not so wonderful characters. there was this one guy who liked telling everyone how many us prisons he has been in. another chap (mid to late 40s) who drank a full bottle of tequila and then passed out on the seat and another guy we picked up along the way who was still stuck in the summer of love era (literally :pac:)...remember these were just the people in the immediate vicinity of where i was on the bus

we may have been on the same bus...but probably not between NY and Buffalo (i think...it's been 10 years since)

Vomit
weirdos
singing

all onn the same ride, never been so glad to see the end of a journey. I've been on 5 day bus rides in Argentina that were far more comfortable and fun than a night on a greyhound, and i've camped in Baja California and felt safer...

Now I pay the extra $50 and take the train, or the plane around the states...far more civilized and just as "real" and "authentic" as anything else