Sectarianism in the Republic of Ireland

Eugene Norman

aido79 wrote: »

Have you ever heard the expression "harden the fcuk up"? I think you are reading too much into this. I meet alot of English people and get on well with them but there is a huge difference between Irish and English mentalities and humour.

Not really. In fact the english will make some "top of the morning" jokes at the drop of a hat. But it's mostly banter.

contactbackup

Help!!!! wrote: »

Have you ever heard of banter?

I am well aware of banter. After living away on bases and previously boarding at school, rugby tours etc.. I am well aware of banter.

Carry

contactbackup wrote: »

*sorry...it was put in the wrong place by mistake

This partially about sectarianism but also about general anti British sentiment in Ireland.
As a British national of Irish Heritage I encounter casual sectarianism/racism in Ireland fairly often mainly in the form of snide comments, impersonation of my southern English accent or just blatantly being ignored in shops/bars when trying to go about my daily business.

With the amount of Irish who again have moved with children to the UK due to the recession and will mostly return with differing accents, I was wondering does the posters here believe it to be an issue here and do they perceive it to be getting better or worse?

I must add that I found English people who have regional accents seem to fair slightly better over here..why is that?

I don't want to derail your English vs Irish thingy, but ...
Have you tried a German accent? Want to know what I've got to hear when spirits are high (and the pints are flowing)?

Ms Merkel, it's your round, I've heard (which is a real insult, 'cause I don't like that woman either). No, I said, if I'm Ms Merkel, you pay, that's EU-rule. Message received, hilarity ensues. I pay my rounds, though.

Or I asked the unwilling (Irish) bf to help washing the windows, now. You're a right concentration camp warden, he said.
Right, I said, no window washing, no potatoes for dinner for the next 800 years. - Well then, he said and chuckled ...

Not to mention the "impersonation of my accent" ...

What I want to say is not being so delicate about the Irish banter. If you hear something which you assume to be insulting, shoot back but keep it light. You'll get the knack eventually.
And work on your sense of humour. If I could do it (being German :P) you should do it no time (being of Irish heritage).

Nodin

contactbackup wrote: »

I am well aware of banter. After living away on bases and previously boarding at school, rugby tours etc.. I am well aware of banter.

It's a shame you didn't allow for that when making up your flame bait story then.

Shoe horning the rugby and boarding school thing in that post is way too obvious as well, btw.

Help!!!!

contactbackup wrote: »

I am well aware of banter. After living away on bases and previously boarding at school, rugby tours etc.. I am well aware of banter.

I lived in London for 18 years & have had banter & also racism from the English
You just learn which one is which
If its banter.....then join in & have a laugh
If its racism......then best to walk away

lertsnim

contactbackup wrote: »

I was raised in Surrey and am sick of the references like "oh he wants the cricket on barman" and the comments about me taking a weeks morning for Margret Thatchers funeral.

Oh you poor thing. Life must be incredibly tough with such vicious as quoted things being said.

Help!!!!

Carry wrote: »

I don't want to derail your English vs Irish thingy, but ...
Have you tried a German accent? Want to know what I've got to hear when spirits are high (and the pints are flowing)?

Ms Merkel, it's your round, I've heard (which is a real insult, 'cause I don't like that woman either). No, I said, if I'm Ms Merkel, you pay, that's EU-rule. Message received, hilarity ensues. I pay my rounds, though.

Or I asked the unwilling (Irish) bf to help washing the windows, now. You're a right concentration camp warden, he said.
Right, I said, no window washing, no potatoes for dinner for the next 800 years. - Well then, he said and chuckled ...

Not to mention the "impersonation of my accent" ...

What I want to say is not being so delicate about the Irish banter. If you hear something which you assume to be insulting, shoot back but keep it light. You'll get the knack eventually.
And work on your sense of humour. If I could do it (being German :P) you should do it no time (being of Irish heritage).

Good for you

contactbackup

Nodin wrote: »

It's a shame you didn't allow for that when making up your flame bait story then.

Shoe horning the rugby and boarding school thing in that post is way too obvious as well, btw.

Really. I can safely say it is presumptions such as that which is half the problem. Ireland and its insecure stereotypes about the game of rugby. Boring, outdated and smacks of chippy-ness.

Nodin

contactbackup wrote: »

Really. I can safely say it is presumptions such as that which is half the problem. Ireland and its insecure stereotypes about the game of rugby. Boring, outdated and smacks of chippy-ness.

Again, too obvious.

contactbackup

Nodin wrote: »

Again, too obvious.

Really Mr 33000 posts. The fact you are so focused that such things gives me a fair idea about you and I must say it isn't pretty.

Son Of A Vidic

contactbackup wrote: »

Sectarianism in the Republic of Ireland

This might be an eye opener for some of ye. One of my best mates (a catholic) was dating a protestant girl for 4 years. Both were from the ROI and they weren't particularly religious. However, persistent parental & family pressure from her side broke them up and the reason you ask? Her parents & family did not want her marrying a catholic, nor did they want any catholic having claim to their prized farm land. It's the kind of thing you'd expect from some quarters north of the border. But to have it happening to a close friend and from a family who lived way down south, certainly was a big surprise.

Nodin

contactbackup wrote: »

Really Mr 33000 posts. The fact you are so focused that such things gives me a fair idea about you and I must say it isn't pretty.

It's not my fault you're bad at the WUMing. More effort is required man.

contactbackup

lertsnim wrote: »

Oh you poor thing. Life must be incredibly tough with such vicious as quoted things being said.

It doesn't bother me so much but I do get annoyed with day to day stuff that is elevated by some as something special.

aido79

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Not really. In fact the english will make some "top of the morning" jokes at the drop of a hat. But it's mostly banter.

I've been on the receiving end of those jokes more times than I could count. Some English people are very uptight and I think thats the OP's problem.

whatdoicare

Have you ever been asked to say "thirty three and a third"? I have, all over ****ing uk, Australia, Asia and America (where a Brooklyn accented cop stopped us leaving the airport to do so)

I took it for what it was, light hearted. We made friends with all of them.

I've never been refused service anywhere in my life, my English cousins have never been refused, my Ozzie cousins have never been refused...I call bull**** on that one.

contactbackup

aido79 wrote: »

I've been on the receiving end of those jokes more times than I could count. Some English people are very uptight and I think thats the OP's problem.

I don't see myself as uptight at all but i don't feel the need to single people out all the time.

Kevhog1988

contactbackup wrote: »

I take it you are trying to be funny. Its not 1976 and I seriously doubt Irish people dig roads much anymore.

Nothing funny about it at all

contactbackup

whatdoicare wrote: »

Have you ever been asked to say "thirty three and a third"? I have, all over ****ing uk, Australia, Asia and America (where a Brooklyn accented cop stopped us leaving the airport to do so)

I took it for what it was, light hearted. We made friends with all of them.

I've never been refused service anywhere in my life, my English cousins have never been refused, my Ozzie cousins have never been refused...I call bull**** on that one.

If you read the post it never says I was refused service. I was implying some people can be chippy. Rolled eyes and whispers when the brit changes his order,,,it does get noticed,

kingchess

Stop feeding the troll,

Arsemageddon

contactbackup wrote: »

Ireland and its insecure stereotypes about the game of rugby. Boring, outdated and smacks of chippy-ness.

Insecure stereotypes about rugby? Really?

We're not in the the 1950's.

Mal-Adjusted

contactbackup wrote: »

Really. I can safely say it is presumptions such as that which is half the problem. Ireland and its insecure stereotypes about the game of rugby. Boring, outdated and smacks of chippy-ness.

Your mask is slipping, OP

Macavity.

Bringing up the topics that the majority of AHers do not want to admit is clearly present. :pac: :pac:

contactbackup

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Insecure stereotypes about rugby? Really?

We're not in the the 1950's.

It was a sly dig at the sports elevated status here. I remember trips to Ireland where it was hard to get to see anything outside the international window and now you have every tom dick and enda talking and acting like it is the most natural thing in the world. I am delighted to see its rise here in Ireland and it is amazing just how popular the game now is here. I can only see it getting bigger.

pablomakaveli

whatdoicare wrote: »

Have you ever been asked to say "thirty three and a third"? I have, all over ****ing uk, Australia, Asia and America (where a Brooklyn accented cop stopped us leaving the airport to do so)

I took it for what it was, light hearted. We made friends with all of them.

I've never been refused service anywhere in my life, my English cousins have never been refused, my Ozzie cousins have never been refused...I call bull**** on that one.

God thats another one. Every.****ing.Time. To my shame i've made a conscious effort to pronounce the "th" like they do just so i dont have it parroted back at me everytime.

contactbackup

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Your mask is slipping, OP

Its posts like this that are a bit of a worry. I try to think what must be going through your head and why you are skeptical of people unless they fit the narrative of what you want things to be.
Its these very ideas that fully back up the OP and further backs up my idea that these issues are a few generations away from being ironed out.

Eugene Norman

contactbackup wrote: »

Really. I can safely say it is presumptions such as that which is half the problem. Ireland and its insecure stereotypes about the game of rugby. Boring, outdated and smacks of chippy-ness.

I don't eveb think you live here. Honestly. Rugby (Union) is more universal in ireland than Britain. I'm in a northside dublin pub where rugby is on right now.

And there are parts of the UK where a specific accent might get some hostility as a "union" accent. But we don't even play league.

Edit:

Apparantly munster are playing

Eugene Norman

contactbackup wrote: »

Its posts like this that are a bit of a worry. I try to think what must be going through your head and why you are skeptical of people unless they fit the narrative of what you want things to be.
Its these very ideas that fully back up the OP and further backs up my idea that these issues are a few generations away from being ironed out.

You post like someone from England with a preconceived version of ireland.

Fr_Dougal

contactbackup wrote: »

It was a sly dig at the sports elevated status here. I remember trips to Ireland where it was hard to get to see anything outside the international window and now you have every tom dick and enda talking and acting like it is the most natural thing in the world. I am delighted to see its rise here in Ireland and it is amazing just how popular the game now is here. I can only see it getting bigger.

Hello, and welcome to boards.

Congratulations on finding AH so quickly, and on making a thread in your first post.

contactbackup

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I don't eveb think you live here. Honestly. Rugby (Union) is more universal in ireland than Britain. I'm in a northside dublin pub where rugby is on right now.

And there are parts of the UK where a specific accent might get some hostility as a "union" accent. But we don't even play league.

If you bothered to read my posts you would see i complemented the dramatic rise in the games popularity here.

Arsemageddon

contactbackup wrote: »

It was a sly dig at the sports elevated status here. I remember trips to Ireland where it was hard to get to see anything outside the international window and now you have every tom dick and enda talking and acting like it is the most natural thing in the world.

Rugby has become far more popular since the game turned pro in the 1990s and the foundation of the Celtic League. Before that there were always club and schools games played here. Pretty much every mid-sized town has a rugby club.

Electric Sheep

Nothing to do with religion, but I remember all too well the nastiness of the local children when we moved to Ireland. Blow ins was frequently thrown about, though my mother was from that town.

I would not subject my kids to that.

contactbackup

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Edit:

Apparantly munster are playing

Pro 12...I must admit I don't religiously watch every game of that as it can be dull with the fringe players.

I prefer the AP and support Irish

Electric Sheep

Candie wrote: »

Irish culture is all about the light hearted abuse. People generally take a bit of slagging in the spirit it's intended, and perhaps your perception of the intent behind the jokes needs a bit of adjustment.

The good news is that if you genuinely feel that you're being unfairly picked on to the extent that you prefer to be served by foreign nationals when out and about, that the option to move back to the UK is there for you.

No, Irish culture is about abuse pretending to be light hearted. Nastiness dressed up as "the Craic".

Eugene Norman

contactbackup wrote: »

If you bothered to read my posts you would see i complemented the dramatic rise in the games popularity here.

That was extreme back peddling.

contactbackup

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Rugby has become far more popular since the game turned pro in the 1990s and the foundation of the Celtic League. Before that there were always club and schools games played here. Pretty much every mid-sized town has a rugby club.

Its the same as most sports. I decent run of a few games post 2000 and everyone got into it. Normally this fades off when the nation goes bad again for a while but I sense the IRFU have laid some solid foundations that will see it stay quite strong. Being the only pro sport here of note helps. (no disrespect to GAA)

contactbackup

Eugene Norman wrote: »

That was extreme back peddling.

Not really. You have extreme comprehension issues is all that it confirmed.

Arsemageddon

contactbackup wrote: »

Pro 12...I must admit I don't religiously watch every game of that as it can be dull with the fringe players.

I prefer the AP and support Irish

........and yet those same fringe players won the Heineken Cup/European Cup so often that we had to change the format of the competition.

What absolute bounders! They should know their damn place!

contactbackup wrote: »

Its the same as most sports. I decent run of a few games post 2000 and everyone got into it. Normally this fades off when the nation goes bad again for a while but I sense the IRFU have laid some solid foundations that will see it stay quite strong. Being the only pro sport here of note helps. (no disrespect to GAA)

I think we're also pretty good with the gee-gees

contactbackup

Arsemageddon wrote: »

........and yet those same fringe players won the Heineken Cup/European Cup so often that we had to change the format of the competition.

What absolute bounders! They should know their damn place!



I think we're also pretty good with the gee-gees

If you have a squad of players sitting on their arse all season and only wheeled out for the HEC/Inter Pros and Internationals it helps a fair bit. Qualification, fear of relegation and the weekly grind for results has clearly taken its toll. The Top 14 and AP can not be compared to the Pro 12. Maybe the new format might address the balance a little bit but i am not holding my breath.

Donkey Oaty

Carry wrote: »

I don't want to derail your English vs Irish thingy, but ...
Have you tried a German accent? Want to know what I've got to hear when spirits are high (and the pints are flowing)?

Ms Merkel, it's your round, I've heard (which is a real insult, 'cause I don't like that woman either). No, I said, if I'm Ms Merkel, you pay, that's EU-rule. Message received, hilarity ensues. I pay my rounds, though.

Or I asked the unwilling (Irish) bf to help washing the windows, now. You're a right concentration camp warden, he said.
Right, I said, no window washing, no potatoes for dinner for the next 800 years. - Well then, he said and chuckled ...

Not to mention the "impersonation of my accent" ...

What I want to say is not being so delicate about the Irish banter. If you hear something which you assume to be insulting, shoot back but keep it light. You'll get the knack eventually.
And work on your sense of humour. If I could do it (being German :P) you should do it no time (being of Irish heritage).

tl;dr: Ve haff vays of making you laff.

cloud493

As an English National of somewhat Irish heritage too, I don't recall ever hearing any such remarks except in a joking way.

Strumms

I have English friends living here and work colleagues who I socialise with when they come over and get can never get over how well they get treated here and how friendly everyone is from work to when we go out for meals or for beers. Never ever have I heard anyone complain or witnessed any remarks, hassle or otherwise. Maybe you are English OP and maybe you just have an attitude problem yourself and or a persecution complex. Be my guess anyway.

contactbackup

The only one with the victims complex here is you. As expected the denials, spin and apologists came out ...seems only the Irish can receive such abuse. You are in complete denial.

contactbackup

contactbackup wrote: »

The only one with the victims complex here is you. As expected the denials, spin and apologists came out ...

seems only the Irish can receive such abuse. You are in complete denial.

You're unwilling to accept that other Brits in Ireland don't get the same treatment.

It might not just be you, but it's not the universal experience you're trying to portray either.

I like Irish people though, maybe that's the difference.

contactbackup

Candie wrote: »

You're unwilling to accept that other Brits in Ireland don't get the same treatment.

It might not just be you, but it's not the universal experience you're trying to portray either.

I like Irish people though, maybe that's the difference.

Irish people are excellent overall. It does help if we are from a similar social economic background. The ones with chips tend to have hailed from a different environment but it is also fairly impossible to avoid them too.

Strumms

contactbackup wrote: »

The only one with the victims complex here is you. As expected the denials, spin and apologists came out ...seems only the Irish can receive such abuse. You are in complete denial.

I am ? How do you qualify that exactly ? :pac:

Denials, spin and apologists ? I dont think so, just people with different views and experiences to you, who have called you out and why in my view you in fact have a poor attitude and a persecution complex. Fact.

contactbackup

Strumms wrote: »

I am ? How do you qualify that exactly ? :pac:

Denials, spin and apologists ? I dont think so, just people with different views and experiences to you, who have called you out and why in my view you in fact have a poor attitude and a persecution complex. Fact.

Stating fact at the end of a post does not make it so. Even if you are 12, which you very well just might be.
I have no victims complex I just started a debate on a issue that exists on a message board. I don't let it effect my life and it doesn't or can't have any effect on my professional life.

Strumms

contactbackup wrote: »

Stating fact at the end of a post does not make it so. Even if you are 12, which you very well just might be.
I have no victims complex I just started a debate on a issue that exists on a message board. I don't let it effect my life and it doesn't or can't have any effect on my professional life.

Well why so upset about it ? Why start two separate threads minutes apart ? Going by the tone of what you post, the defensive nature of your replies which seem to be driven by the fact you are not being agreed with or perhaps some neurological issue coming into play you definately do have some sort of deep seated issue.

I am still awaiting you to clarify why I am the only one here with a victim complex btw. Feel free to dodge that :pac:

Hitchens

Strumms wrote: »

why I am the only one here with a victim complex btw.

is it 'cos you're from Kildare? :eek::pac:

blatantrereg

I've observed a significant amount of antipathy towards English people in the Irish. I've observed a lot less of it in the last 10-12 years than before that though.

I would guess at a couple of reasons for this apparent change.

One is that the Provos disarmed and the Real IRA replaced them as the masked face of militant republicanism. There was plenty of armchair support for the provos. Don't know that I've met anyone who thinks the RIRA are anything but murdering pigs.

Another is that the Catholic Church in Ireland was exposed as a monstrous institution, and popular reverence for it turned to abhorrence.

contactbackup

contactbackup wrote: »

Irish people are excellent overall. It does help if we are from a similar social economic background. The ones with chips tend to have hailed from a different environment but it is also fairly impossible to avoid them too.

Those pesky peasants are everywhere. We can but dream of a life unmolested by our lessers.