Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note in OP 9/4

Talisman

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/rafa-benitez-dreaming-of-liverpool-return-after-deciding-to-quit-napoli-after-just-two-years-10160322.html

Welcome back Rafa

Will never happen while Ian Ayre is at the club.

Benitez will be offered the job at Man City or West Ham.

klose

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

If we win the FA Cup this season and only finish 6th, the manager should be deemed a success this season?

If we finish outside the top 4 the league placement really has not much bearing, we should look at how many points we are off it, say we finish 6th, level on points with spurs both of us say 5 points off 4th and won the cup i would say it was an acceptable season, finish 6th and say 10 points off 4th is where we have a problem.

Kirby

Talisman wrote: »

Will never happen while Ian Ayre is at the club.

Benitez will be offered the job at Man City or West Ham.

Bit of a difference there. The City hierarchy will want a manager they can work with. I cant see them hiring Rafa. He'd argue with his own shadow.

West Ham? He'd fit in well with the owners there but I cant see him wanting to take the job. He'll surely want a bigger team.

Benzino

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It's far cheaper in the longer run to just add a couple of 50m pound players every season, than to spent 150m on several players that might play in team. If I was owner I'd just add one or two superstars every season. We have the foundations to build something, we just need the final pieces, not endless add on pieces that don't fit.
One proven striker and we challenge again.
Goals is where it's at in Premier league, if you can score goals regardless of your defense you will be in top 3, secure defense and you can be champions. It's no mystery, yet we let a top striker leave and didn't replace him.
It's mind bottling

The problem is star players don't want to join us, see Sanchez, Falcao, Costa, Willian, Salah etc etc.

Chesty08

Beat Blackburn tonight and win our next 2 matches.

Would open a whole world of possibilities and what is deemed a success or not. To many variables between now and the end of the season, hold off until then to focus on this debate.

The focus now should be are we equipped to beat Blackburn Rovers tonight? How do we see the game going?

Kirby

Benzino wrote: »

The problem is star players don't want to join us, see Sanchez, Falcao, Costa, Willian, Salah etc etc.

Yes but each of those players(discounting salah) are on the type of Sterling wage that Liverpool have balked at paying. You cant be outside of London, outside of the champions league and pay under the going rate...... and expect to get those types of players.

Benzino

Kirby wrote: »

Yes but each of those players(discounting salah) are on the type of Sterling wage that Liverpool have balked at paying. You cant be outside of London, outside of the champions league and pay under the going rate...... and expect to get those types of players.

That's true, but I don't recall any suggestions that those transfers fell through due to wages, they just went to better clubs in their eyes.

I think people just assume we won't meet the players wages without any actual proof to back it up. I'm sure FSG would pay 1 or 2 players that sort of money, the players just don't want to join (and why should they, we can't guarantee CL).

Talisman

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The one thing we do know over others coming from a continental side is that he can score goals in the PL.

We also have a lot of dead weight to get off the books that a side like Villa could do with, deals could be done.

Also if he and Origi we to get some so of partnership going at international level as well as club level that could/would be good for the club.

Brendan does pride himself at making young players better.

His recovery time from the hip and achilles injury may be an indication that physically Benteke is not suited to the Premier League. If the club want another young Belgian forward then Obbi Oulare is the one to look at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUFm3t7tkZk

Mr.H

First Soccer forum post Mr.H, First Soccer forum post Mr.H, Don't mess it up, Don't mess it up

So do you guys think we will sign Aaron Lennon?

Dam it Mr.H you blew it. That posts looks stupid.


Ok now that the formalities are over its time to get serious.

I was reading this morning that we are offering Hendo 80k a week to re-sign. while I very much dislike reading these articles as they are mostly fabrication, it got me to thinking. I cant see us actually offering him more than 100k as it seems to be the mindset of FSG.

Dont get me wrong I dont think he should be on 140k a week or anything, BUT he is going to be our club captain! Should the club captain be one of the highest earners at the club? Surely.

With missing out on Sanchez (I am aware London was an influence) I am sure if we actually offered him a good wage package we might have had a shot.

The last few years we have adopted this new policy of giving reward based contracts, where Suarez (for example) went from modest wages to really good wages based on his performance. Sturridge and even Sterling (his last contract) did the same.

I get that idea and think its great for certain "squad players". But surely we should have player classes as well such as "first choice players" who should be the first names on the team sheet and they should be getting decent wages as they are the ones driving our team.

Sturridge, Sterling, Hendo, Coutinho, Lucas and possibly Skrtel right now would be considered "first choice players". So my point is that surely they should be all getting wages that reflect their importance to the team.

The likes of Ibe, Marko, Migs, Moreno, Balo, Allen, Sakho and Lovern should be the type of players on good wages (that reflect us being a "top 4 candidate side") but should also be reward based contracts that will motivate then to step up a little more and try to become a "first choice player" (a bit like a made man in mafia terms)

After all if we signed Cavani (we wont) in the summer we would have to pay him 200k a week (Complete guess. Could be 700k for all I know). We certainly wouldn't get anywhere with a modest offer of 70k a week with the chance of topping that through a rewards based contract.........................


Now I have no inside knowledge of the club so for all I know certain players are getting a great contract and are not playing for reward based contracts. But what is evident is our resistance to offering a satisfactory wage to players who DO deserve it.

Raheem is 20. He could become the next Bale or the next Mellor. What I do know is if we don't give him a GREAT wage then we will lose him. It might sound like typical English media hype (ala Shawn Wright Phillips, Micha Richards, Bradley Wright Philips etc.) but clubs really do seem to be looking at Raheem and if we don't have this sorted by this time next year we will be looking at losing a young high potential asset on the cheap. Same goes for Hendo. English players are prime real estate. Back to my comment on Aaron Lennon. He is a good player but if we tried to buy him do you really think we would get him for less than 15-20 million?? He certainly isn't worth it. But as an English player he would cost that. If we sold Raheem and Hendo to lets say City, this summer we could get north of 60 million for both (combined) in terms of English players and ages.

Hopefully the club smartens up and takes a gamble. We have loads to be greatful for with FSG but we are not in trouble of Administration or Liquidation any more. Lets try to at least match our rivals. If we want to stay in the top 4 we need to be one of the top 4 spenders!




Sorry for the long post I have been waiting a while to be approved lol

Mr.H

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Success? Maybe not. But I'd deem it acceptable and deserving of another shot next year.

Agreed but if we didnt have a good summer because of it, I would be very underwhelmed.

Hopefully our falling short this year will be a kick up the arse that we need. We have been so naive with this squad. Last year our naivety showed against Chelsea where we tried to win the title in style instead of playing out the boring 0-0 that Jose wanted. This year our naivety was thinking we didnt need Suarez's goals so we didnt replace a 30 goal striker with a 30 goal striker (almost 60 goals down on last year with 7 games to go).

So hopefully we will see that we cant do "an Arsenal" (of old) and buy cheap players. We need to do "an Arsenal" (of new ) and start offering (the right) players an expected salary

Benzino

Mr.H wrote: »

First Soccer forum post Mr.H, First Soccer forum post Mr.H, Don't mess it up, Don't mess it up

So do you guys think we will sign Aaron Lennon?

Dam it Mr.H you blew it. That posts looks stupid.


Ok now that the formalities are over its time to get serious.

I was reading this morning that we are offering Hendo 80k a week to re-sign. while I very much dislike reading these articles as they are mostly fabrication, it got me to thinking. I cant see us actually offering him more than 100k as it seems to be the mindset of FSG.

Dont get me wrong I dont think he should be on 140k a week or anything, BUT he is going to be our club captain! Should the club captain be one of the highest earners at the club? Surely.

With missing out on Sanchez (I am aware London was an influence) I am sure if we actually offered him a good wage package we might have had a shot.

The last few years we have adopted this new policy of giving reward based contracts, where Suarez (for example) went from modest wages to really good wages based on his performance. Sturridge and even Sterling (his last contract) did the same.

I get that idea and think its great for certain "squad players". But surely we should have player classes as well such as "first choice players" who should be the first names on the team sheet and they should be getting decent wages as they are the ones driving our team.

Sturridge, Sterling, Hendo, Coutinho, Lucas and possibly Skrtel right now would be considered "first choice players". So my point is that surely they should be all getting wages that reflect their importance to the team.

The likes of Ibe, Marko, Migs, Moreno, Balo, Allen, Sakho and Lovern should be the type of players on good wages (that reflect us being a "top 4 candidate side") but should also be reward based contracts that will motivate then to step up a little more and try to become a "first choice player" (a bit like a made man in mafia terms)

After all if we signed Cavani (we wont) in the summer we would have to pay him 200k a week (Complete guess. Could be 700k for all I know). We certainly wouldn't get anywhere with a modest offer of 70k a week with the chance of topping that through a rewards based contract.........................


Now I have no inside knowledge of the club so for all I know certain players are getting a great contract and are not playing for reward based contracts. But what is evident is our resistance to offering a satisfactory wage to players who DO deserve it.

Raheem is 20. He could become the next Bale or the next Mellor. What I do know is if we don't give him a GREAT wage then we will lose him. It might sound like typical English media hype (ala Shawn Wright Phillips, Micha Richards, Bradley Wright Philips etc.) but clubs really do seem to be looking at Raheem and if we don't have this sorted by this time next year we will be looking at losing a young high potential asset on the cheap. Same goes for Hendo. English players are prime real estate. Back to my comment on Aaron Lennon. He is a good player but if we tried to buy him do you really think we would get him for less than 15-20 million?? He certainly isn't worth it. But as an English player he would cost that. If we sold Raheem and Hendo to lets say City, this summer we could get north of 60 million for both (combined) in terms of English players and ages.

Hopefully the club smartens up and takes a gamble. We have loads to be greatful for with FSG but we are not in trouble of Administration or Liquidation any more. Lets try to at least match our rivals. If we want to stay in the top 4 we need to be one of the top 4 spenders!




Sorry for the long post I have been waiting a while to be approved lol

How do you know we don't offer players a decent wage, what are you basing this on? The Sterling situtation? Cause Sterling is clearly stalling for a potential summer move, not more money (although that's a potential added bonus of stalling contract talks).

Knex*

The key really, and this has been said by posters here in the past, is to 'overpay' for the right players.

I don't expect us to be in the running for a Hulk, or Sneijder. Players near the end of their careers, looking for a huge pay day. But when we can viably get the likes of Sanchez, Willian, Salah, Mkhitaryan, etc, we do need to pay more than Arsenal or Chelsea to get these players. Such is the position we're in.

If the Club don't learn that, then unfortunately its going to be a tough few years for us, and for Rodgers trying to keep us competitive.

Mr.H

Benzino wrote: »

How do you know we don't offer players a decent wage, what are you basing this on? The Sterling situtation? Cause Sterling is clearly stalling for a potential summer move, not more money (although that's a potential added bonus of stalling contract talks).

I'm sure we do offer a decent wage. Listen 10k a week for even a sports professional is a "decent wage"

I think I'm basing the rewards thing on ironically an article I read a couple years back where it was reported we where offering lower wages and high rewards to try to avoid another Joe Cole or Aqua situation.

I think his head is turned though

Luckycharms_74

brevity wrote: »

Brafa Rogitez.

Knex. wrote: »

Just imagine joining that goatee with Rodgers' new teeth.

Glorious.

Bow before The Bengers, ye peasants.

Knex*

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Pffft. Amateur.

Thud

the problem with reward based contracts from a players perspective is injuries, if you are injured you're unlikely to get any of those rewards, fans who are watching the clubs budget might think this is good but if you're a player and want to maximize your salary, rewards based contracts aren't ideal if there's a chance a broken leg means you end up earning half of what you should

Mr.H

Mr.H wrote: »

....



Hopefully the club smartens up and takes a gamble........If we want to stay in the top 4 we need to be one of the top 4 spenders!

....


Sorry for the long post I have been waiting a while to be approved lol

Welcome
Given the income & stadium expenditure Liverpool cannot spend more than any of the current top 4, the club is smart enough to know this thankfully and as it's run as a business rather than a hobby there isn't the option to lose the senses.

As others have mentioned, we are essentially a 20 goal a season striker away from top 4, buy 2 of them or close to it, ensure sterling doesn't leave in the summer, cross fingers that sturridge plays PL games (20 ish) next season and we are good to go.

Through in a very decent holding midfielder who can pass and we could aim higher than top 4 .

Luckycharms_74

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Fac-standing

Mr.H

To be fair how much you earn is often used as a measure of how good you are at what you do. Its only human to want to earn as much as possible compared to your peers.

Hopefully we are not as strict when it comes to potential Marquee signings this year. For all we know we offered Falcao and Sanchez huge wages and they just chose someone else

Knex*

Bengers would be a wonderful technician. Facht.

Knex.

Knex. wrote: »

Bengers would be a wonderful technician. Facht.

R-Rod

Mr.H

Augeo wrote: »

Welcome
Given the income & stadium expenditure Liverpool cannot spend more than any of the current top 4, the club is smart enough to know this thankfully and as it's run as a business rather than a hobby there isn't the option to lose the senses.

As others have mentioned, we are essentially a 20 goal a season striker away from top 4, buy 2 of them or close to it, ensure sterling doesn't leave in the summer, cross fingers that sturridge plays PL games (20 ish) next season and we are good to go.

Through in a very decent holding midfielder who can pass and we could aim higher than top 4 .

Thanks. I dont know how I've lived without this place for so long

Yea I am happy to see us not splash Carroll fees or even Jovanovic wages anymore. If we do spend that kind of cash again we will need to be sure that the player deserves it.

Weird to say but I actually think the Mario deal was a great one (even now) 16 million and 80k a week. That is back up striker fees. If we do sign a top striker in the summer it would take focus off Mario (not that I would be against us selling him) and he could be a great squad striker to have at modest wages.

Your right though a holding mid and at least one top class striker is what is needed.

The best thing about last summer is we now have a squad so we just need to get one or two upgrades and we should be ok.

Talisman

Mr.H wrote: »

Your right though a holding mid and at least one top class striker is what is needed.

And a goalkeeper and a couple of full backs would do nicely also.

5starpool

Talisman wrote: »

Will never happen while Ian Ayre is at the club.

Benitez will be offered the job at Man City or West Ham.

Not that it probably has much bearing on this (and far from likely to be true also given the 'source') but I remember seeing some twitter crap recently that Ayre might be on his way out too.

Mr.H

Talisman wrote: »

And a goalkeeper and a couple of full backs would do nicely also.

I think Migs has come on a great deal in the last few months. We do need a keeper but I wouldn't be overly hoping for a replacement. Maybe right back (if Flanno doesn't stay) but I think if we had a limited budget I would personally prefer us to go all out on a top class def mid and top class striker in the "Pogba and Cavani mould............" (we are not going to sign them)

But that's just me and I do not possess the qualifications to make those calls

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

And a goalkeeper and a couple of full backs would do nicely also.

Moreno is the lfb now, we won't be seeing an upgrade on him, he has lots to learn no doubt. Mig has shown resolve & strength of mind, put in a very decent few months without a clanger to mention. Ibe & flannagan can cover the rfb position.

The squad is there, no real adv to be gained by tinkering with minor upgrades imo... Spend on a striker x2 and a holding midfielder. Keep Lucas and giving Can time in midfield allows the scope to buy a midfielder that will do a job well for us without looking for a world beater.

The spell up to Nov where lots of points were dropped was partly due to Rodgers fitting Gerrard in somewhere, had to be done but won't be an issue next year. I'll stand corrected if a run as bad or close to it is seen next year.

niallo27

Kirby wrote: »

Bit of a difference there. The City hierarchy will want a manager they can work with. I cant see them hiring Rafa. He'd argue with his own shadow.

West Ham? He'd fit in well with the owners there but I cant see him wanting to take the job. He'll surely want a bigger team.

He was right to argue though. Do you not remember who was in charge back then.

Harry Palmr

Mr.H wrote: »

Thanks. I dont know how I've lived without this place for so long

heh! You'll soon be wondering how you can be rid of the place! :pac:

I see Old Trafford hero Andrea Dossena has been arrested on suspicion of shop-lifting in Harrods. Seriously.

Mr.H

Augeo wrote: »

The spell up to Nov where lots of points were dropped was partly due to Rodgers fitting Gerrard in somewhere, had to be done but won't be an issue next year. I'll stand corrected if a run as bad or close to it is seen next year.

Thats a very good point actually. I love Gerrard to bits and wont criticise the man the same way I wouldn't Carra but it will be interesting to see how we fair next year without any particular player that rightly or wrongly HAS to play.

We have a young squad as well. Marko, Moreno, Can(o), Sakho, Flanno, Hendo, Sterlingo are all young players who can be big time players for the next 8 or 9 years if need be. Minor tweaks are all that we should be looking at. This is why I think the mere thought of a new manager is laughable. We would have to start all over again with someone new, where we have a great chance of doing something if we just hang in there.

The FA cup or a top 4 will take the pressure off slightly but hopefully the dooms day of neither will not see a panic sacking unless there is an educated plan.

Mr.H

Harry Palmr wrote: »

heh! You'll soon be wondering how you can be rid of the place! :pac:

I see Old Trafford hero Andrea Dossena has been arrested on suspicion of shop-lifting in Harrods. Seriously.

lol reminds me of the story of DaGae shop lifting in Tesco's

LuckyLloyd

Moreno clearly isn't good enough. What's the story with Flanagan?

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Moreno clearly isn't good enough. What's the story with Flanagan?

Agreed.

City, Utd, Arsenal, the big goals he has played a massive part in have cost us big time.

Mr.H

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Moreno clearly isn't good enough. What's the story with Flanagan?

Moreno is still only 22 and defenders get better with age. he has loads of pace and has a good strike/pass in him. He is by far the best left back we have ahad in a few years (not saying much to be fair)

Maqullio I hope is still just a loan and if he has been fit all this time it just means he isn't putting in the effort off field.

Flanno got a really bad injury this season and has struggled to shake it off. As another 22 year old I would rule him out but hopefully the injury hasn't killed his potential the way it did with Martin Kelly. Is he out of contract this year or next?

rob316

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Moreno clearly isn't good enough. What's the story with Flanagan?

I don't know about that, he's a young lad in a new country and league, this season will have been a sharp learning curve for him. He has had some very good games so I'll wait till next season to judge.

Luckycharms_74

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Moreno clearly isn't good enough. What's the story with Flanagan?

+1. Both Moreno & Manquillo are no better than Johnson and Enrique.
I think Manquillo will be shipped back in the summer & Moreno replaced.

Mr.H

noodler wrote: »

Agreed.

City, Utd, Arsenal, the big goals he has played a massive part in have cost us big time.

To be honest I think we need a defensive coach brought in this summer.

Carra made mention of it there not too long ago. Rodgers focuses on attacking play in training. He never really instructs the defence on their positioning.

You may notice that we play out of defence............ when a player loses possession (they all have done it a few times) the rest of the defence seems unsure of who should be covering who.

Carra and Henry had that debate about defenders dribbling past strikers. We seem to be trying this at times (Sakho and Lovren) and sometimes its great. But when it doesn't come off we are left exposed and out of position.

We need someone like Hyypia or Carra to put in some time on the training ground coaching our defence how to deal with certain situations.

I refuse to believe that Toure (Arsenal and City), Sakho (PSG and France captain at certain points), Lovren (Lyon, Croatia) and Skrtel are all that bad at defending. These are players with Champions League experience, International experience. They have been captains for club and countries.

Our issue is not personal but organisation and coaching.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Anyone been keeping tabs on Origi? He's due back for the start of next season. I know he's probably not going to be a 20-goal striker, but how's it looking in tertms of anotehr squad player, starter or nothing to get excited about?

brevity

This is the problem with buying youth and throwing them in at the deep end.

MonkeyTennis

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2995888/Divock-Origi-ends-six-month-goal-drought-loan-Liverpool-striker-nets-hat-trick-Lille.html

On Origi

Harry Palmr

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

+1. Both Moreno & Manquillo are no better than Johnson and Enrique.
I think Manquillo will be shipped back in the summer & Moreno replaced.

Not a chance, you don't bin a 12 million 20 year old after one season.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Anyone been keeping tabs on Origi? He's due back for the start of next season. I know he's probably not going to be a 20-goal striker, but how's it looking in tertms of anotehr squad player, starter or nothing to get excited about?

Origi has had a direct part in 5 of Lille's last 6 goals (5 strikes and an assist), after a lean spell the whole team is in much better shape and Origi is benefiting commensurately. For me he is going to be the third striker behind Sturridge and AN Other but as he can operate as a wide attacker I'd see him getting plenty of games.

In other news Fulham are going to sell Patrick Roberts, who as U21 watchers will know is a very talented 18 year old winger. He is a known fan but with a massive 15m price tag being touted I doubt LFC will buy him.

D'Agger

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Not a chance, you don't bin a 12 million 20 year old after one season.

This, we'll learn from Insua hopefully & realise that a 20 year old, regardless of price paid, needs time to learn.

Moreno is far from the finished article, but he's going to develop into a better player in the right environment.

I do think Manquillo will be let go back, can't remember him featuring since we lost to West Ham tbh

MonkeyTennis

wasnt Moreno mainly a winger as opposed to full back?

Caovyn Lineah

Manquillo hasn't played because he isn't suited to the wingback role.

Talk of Moreno not being good enough is hilarious.

LuckyLloyd

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Manquillo hasn't played because he isn't suited to the wingback role.

Talk of Moreno not being good enough is hilarious.

Hilarious? He has looked nowhere near the level required in the crunch. Insua never turned in a performance as bad as Moreno in the last two league games.

Oranage2

Does anybody else think Rodgers alienating players could have a possible impact on potential signings?

Caovyn Lineah

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hilarious? He has looked nowhere near the level required in the crunch. Insua never turned in a performance as bad as Moreno in the last two league games.

So fans should learn from the mistakes made with Insua who was written off at a young age because of some poor performances. Moreno was at fault for 3 games in the last 2 games obviously, how many was Skrtel at fault for last season? Sakho? Shall we go to other clubs and go through their defenders?
Was Vidic not good enough for United when Torres repeatedly make him look like a Sunday league defender?

klose

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hilarious? He has looked nowhere near the level required in the crunch. Insua never turned in a performance as bad as Moreno in the last two league games.

Flanno had half a good season in all the years he's been here, your writing off Moreno too soon

Harry Palmr

Oranage2 wrote: »

Does anybody else think Rodgers alienating players could have a possible impact on potential signings?

Knex*

Oranage2 wrote: »

Does anybody else think Rodgers alienating players could have a possible impact on potential signings?

Nope.

noodler

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

So fans should learn from the mistakes made with Insua who was written off at a young age because of some poor performances. Moreno was at fault for 3 games in the last 2 games obviously, how many was Skrtel at fault for last season? Sakho? Shall we go to other clubs and go through their defenders?
Was Vidic not good enough for United when Torres repeatedly make him look like a Sunday league defender?

The clearanc Vs City in August that allowed Jovetic to score as well.

Crucial goals when the City, Utd and Arsenal games were at 0-0 as well.

Okay, those goals made me angry and I am checking myself to make sure that is not clouding my judgement, but I don't think hr will survey.