Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note in OP 9/4

brevity

Oranage2 wrote: »

Does anybody else think Rodgers alienating players could have a possible impact on potential signings?

I don't think so. I'd say money would have a larger impact.

Caovyn Lineah

noodler wrote: »

The clearanc Vs City in August that allowed Jovetic to score as well.

Crucial goals when the City, Utd and Arsenal games were at 0-0 as well.

Okay, those goals made me angry and I am checking myself to make sure that is not clouding my judgement, but I don't think hr will survey.

There was one against Newcastle too. Nobody is saying he hasn't made mistakes but to write him off now is comical.

Mr.H

Mr.H wrote: »

To be honest I think we need a defensive coach brought in this summer.

Carra made mention of it there not too long ago.......

We need someone like Hyypia or Carra to put in some time on the training ground coaching our defence how to deal with certain situations........

Our issue is not personal but organisation and coaching.

To be fair since Christmas there's been many clean sheets, I think Cares was stretching the truth saying there was no defensive coaching.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hilarious? He has looked nowhere near the level required in the crunch. Insua never turned in a performance as bad as Moreno in the last two league games.

What about the games he played well in? Is it only the ones we lose are crunch games?

LuckyLloyd

Augeo wrote: »

To be fair since Christmas there's been many clean sheets, I think Cares was stretching the truth saying there was no defensive coaching.


What about the games he played well in? Is it only the ones we lose are crunch games?

In pressure games against City / Utd / Arsenal he had looked very poor.

Look I don't give a **** about Moreno. There is no agenda here. He simply looks like he'll fold under pressure and an upgrade is required. Why people feel the need to defend every signing is beyond me.

NukaCola

Moreno has been suspect defensively in a lot of games. Not just against big teams. He has his positive attributes also but on the whole he isn't a starter for us, or at least shouldn't be. Not yet anyway.

There are big question marks over whether he will get better or not but he has a lot of potential. We need more though at the moment.

marklazarcovic

Mr.H wrote:

Our issue is not personal but organisation and coaching.

Our issue is we are not scoring enough goals

noodler

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

There was one against Newcastle too. Nobody is saying he hasn't made mistakes but to write him off now is comical.

You find everything comical.

A stand-up comedian's dream.

Knex*

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In pressure games against City / Utd / Arsenal he had looked very poor.

Look I don't give a **** about Moreno. There is no agenda here. He simply looks like he'll fold under pressure and an upgrade is required. Why people feel the need to defend every signing is beyond me.

Because its completely irrational to write of a 22 year old, playing in a new team, in a new country.

Patrice Evra wasn't exactly great in his first season or so with United, when he joined as a 23 year old, and look how he turned out. Sure he had his defensive frailties in his final few seasons, but if Moreno turns out even anything like him, we'd all be delighted.

Point is, writing off someone so quickly is just baffling. Its not like he's Antonio Nunez, someone blatantly out of their depth. He's shown potential both with Liverpool, and with Sevilla before.

Like with Markovic. I honestly can't get my head around anyone saying these players won't make it. Its as bad as Dunphy and his 'calling out' of Ronaldo as a nothing player when he was first coming onto the scene.

There is honestly no way you can write off a 20 year old, or a 22 year old, in Markovic and Moreno's situations.

Potential Underachiever

Moreno has wound me up a fair bit this season, his end product has been poor enough and his defensive abilities leave a lot to be desired, however I sure as hell wouldn't be getting rid in the summer by any stretch, hopefully he can develop and improve next year.

P.S doing the Sturridge dance was enough to earn another year anyway imho!

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

....

Look I don't give a **** about Moreno. There is no agenda here. He simply looks like he'll fold under pressure and an upgrade is required. Why people feel the need to defend every signing is beyond me.

I don't expect any upgrade

noodler

Knex. wrote: »

Because its completely irrational to write of a 22 year old, playing in a new team, in a new country.

Patrice Evra wasn't exactly great in his first season or so with United, when he joined as a 23 year old, and look how he turned out. Sure he had his defensive frailties in his final few seasons, but if Moreno turns out even anything like him, we'd all be delighted.

Point is, writing off someone so quickly is just baffling. Its not like he's Antonio Nunez, someone blatantly out of their depth. He's shown potential both with Liverpool, and with Sevilla before.

Like with Markovic. I honestly can't get my head around anyone saying these players won't make it. Its as bad as Dunphy and his 'calling out' of Ronaldo as a nothing player when he was first coming onto the scene.

There is honestly no way you can write off a 20 year old, or a 22 year old, in Markovic and Moreno's situations.

While I agree with you in principle, I wouldn't be extending that argument to every single player foreign player playing in England between the ages of 20-22. Some just aren't good enough - its not like they all have equal chances of success.

Moreno hasn't shown anywhere near enough to me personally, he seems really limited in an attacking sense and is fearful in possession in his own half to add to his gaffes.

Obviously my opinion won't matter, he will be staying regardless, I just don't think he will reach the heights required.

Knex*

Augeo wrote: »

I don't expect any upgrade

Sure there's loads of great fullbacks around the place that are just desperate to play for Liverpool, and available to us in the summer.

Give Lloyd a while and he'll name a few for us, I'm sure. Like all the other time he demands upgrades without actually remotely suggesting as to how, or whom.

Hypothetically, if we do replace him, it will be with players who fall under two categories:

1) someone with a lesser ceiling in terms of potential, but is relatively solid and can do a job for a few years. How Enrique was viewed before his knees blew out for us, basically.

2) A relatively unknown player that our scouts have found, whereby we repeat the process of embedding a young player into the team, the settling in period, the getting on his back when he makes a mistake period, the I don't care about this player, get another one, period. Lots of fun.

Agent Coulson

Moreno is a left back not a wing back like a lot of our players this season he is playing in a position that is not natural to him.

Also playing for a manager that shown over the majority of his time at the club that defending is the last thing he seems to worry about that is not going to help all these young inexperienced players with potential when they are asked to attack over defend.

Johnson & Enrique are still our best two fullbacks that speaks volumes for how weak our defence is really.

Mr.H

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Our issue is we are not scoring enough goals

Well I don't think many will disagree with that. But even last year the reason we lost the league was our inability to stop conceding stupid goals. Our defence has been shaky for a couple of years now.

We do need to bring in a 20 goal striker (to be fair I doubt any of us would have seen Suarez as a dead cert 20 goal striker when he came here. Scoring in the Dutch league doesn't make you a world class striker. Just ask Dirk)

But I also think we need to sort out the defence. Not necessarily a new defender but an actual coach dedicated to helping their positioning.

I do get that Carra may have exaggerated

Mr.H

Knex. wrote: »

Sure there's loads of great fullbacks around the place that are just desperate to play for Liverpool, and available to us in the summer.

Give Lloyd a while and he'll name a few for us, I'm sure. Like all the other time he demands upgrades without actually remotely suggesting as to how, or whom.

Hypothetically, if we do replace him, it will be with players who fall under two categories:

1) someone with a lesser ceiling in terms of potential, but is relatively solid and can do a job for a few years. How Enrique was viewed before his knees blew out for us, basically.

2) A relatively unknown player that our scouts have found, whereby we repeat the process of embedding a young player into the team, the settling in period, the getting on his back when he makes a mistake period, the I don't care about this player, get another one, period. Lots of fun.

Actually I'm pretty handy at fifa. Are we allowed to use players from fifa as suggestions??:P

LuckyLloyd

Knex. wrote: »

Because its completely irrational to write of a 22 year old, playing in a new team, in a new country.

Patrice Evra wasn't exactly great in his first season or so with United, when he joined as a 23 year old, and look how he turned out. Sure he had his defensive frailties in his final few seasons, but if Moreno turns out even anything like him, we'd all be delighted.

Point is, writing off someone so quickly is just baffling. Its not like he's Antonio Nunez, someone blatantly out of their depth. He's shown potential both with Liverpool, and with Sevilla before.

Like with Markovic. I honestly can't get my head around anyone saying these players won't make it. Its as bad as Dunphy and his 'calling out' of Ronaldo as a nothing player when he was first coming onto the scene.

There is honestly no way you can write off a 20 year old, or a 22 year old, in Markovic and Moreno's situations.

Look, whatever. You don't need to write him off, but you need to drop him to the bench given his recent performance level - i.e. you need an upgrade. The risk that this season IS his level of ability is too great to have him your starter going into next season.

Mr.H

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Look, whatever. You don't need to write him off, but you need to drop him to the bench given his recent performance level - i.e. you need an upgrade. The risk that this season IS his level of ability is too great to have him your starter going into next season.

Well technically your right. In a way every single player could and perhaps should be upgraded and I think we all would like that. If we could afford it.

But the real question is if we could only bring in 2 players this summer, would a left back really be the priority over a def mid or striker?

Its no coincidence that our games against United and Arsenal suffered because of a not fully fit Lucas. Our great run was when Lucas was fully fit and a main stay in the side. We need a player like him and Allen (who has his own strengths) does not cut it

Moreno has been poor recently and overall he's been average enough.

LB definitely not a priority though.

smileyj1987

rarnes1 wrote: »

Moreno has been poor recently and overall he's been average enough.

LB definitely not a priority though.

I can live with Moreno in the team , as I think he will get better. I do think a rb is badly needed in the summer.

brevity

Come to think of it, has anyone really impressed this season?

smileyj1987

brevity wrote: »

Come to think of it, has anyone really impressed this season?

I would say Emre can has impressed me , I think he is going to be one hell of a player in the next few years.

5starpool

brevity wrote: »

Come to think of it, has anyone really impressed this season?

Overall I'd have to say no. Some players have had good spells but the bad spells for pretty much all players have outweighed the good ones, some considerably.

Connavar

brevity wrote: »

Come to think of it, has anyone really impressed this season?

Sakho would be the one for me

Agent Coulson

brevity wrote: »

Come to think of it, has anyone really impressed this season?

Can, Sakho, Skrtel & Coutinho are the only ones really that spring to mind but even they haven't been consistent enough to say they had a good season.

4 players out of a squad having a good season really isn't good.

Another 4/5 have had an average season.

The rest haven't been up to and it will take a lot of work to get them to step up to the standard that's needed next season.

Mr.H

brevity wrote: »

Come to think of it, has anyone really impressed this season?

Impressed probably not

But I think a few players may have bought a lifeline with some performances and some have had good spells.

Lucas I think has shown we need him in the squad.
Migs has been great since he came back into the fold and think he was dead on the be replaced until his run.
Marko showed some skill this year and still 20 he may not be a better prospect than Sterling but should Sterling be the benchmark for youth?
Can will be a great player for us. Strong German def mid that we have been crying out for since Hamann or Masherano.
Coutinho has stepped up a level but until he can get more consistent he will always be potential.
Skrtel is still our best centre back.

We have had a really poor season and our only hope is that the management staff are identifying why exactly it went so wrong. I expect a quick start to next season or B Rodg may be under a lot of pressure from fans

RollieFingers

Connavar wrote: »

Sakho would be the one for me

Should take the armband next season in my opinion, he's class!

Boom_Bap

It's sad that Gerrard isn't part of this conversation in his last season.

Henderson by far has been our standout player this year.
By. Far.

Knex*

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It's sad that Gerrard isn't part of this conversation in his last season.

Henderson by far has been our standout player this year.
By. Far.

That's depressing.

J Mysterio

That goal Moreno scored though, it was ****ing brilliant. Won the ball in our own half with good pressure before flying up the pitch and smashing it in. A great goal.

In recent times he has put the brakes on once he got around the box, either to pick out a cross or to offload to Coutinho or whoever. I'd like to see him back himself more when he has that momentum.

His big problem is positioning.

Caovyn Lineah

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In pressure games against City / Utd / Arsenal he had looked very poor.

Look I don't give a **** about Moreno. There is no agenda here. He simply looks like he'll fold under pressure and an upgrade is required. Why people feel the need to defend every signing is beyond me.

How did you feel about the likes of Lucas and Henderson when their Liverpool careers got off to less than stellar starts? Did you want them replaced?

rob316

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

How did you feel about the likes of Lucas and Henderson when their Liverpool careers got off to less than stellar starts? Did you want them replaced?

Don't try to reason with it. Too many fans today have little patience for a player.

Caovyn Lineah

rob316 wrote: »

Don't try to reason with it. Too many fans today have little patience for a player.

It's not just players, managers too. Immediate results or get out, it's exactly what I said yesterday, self entitlement.

LuckyLloyd

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

How did you feel about the likes of Lucas and Henderson when their Liverpool careers got off to less than stellar starts? Did you want them replaced?

Lucas wasn't first choice when he started at Liverpool. There was a certain amount of consternation about both of them though on this thread. I did argue we were paying too much for Henderson the summer we signed him but both him and Lucas worked hard, never hid and were never costing us games imo.

If we had a different player performing competently than Moreno we might have got results in our past two league games. Unfortunately he has been really dreadful lately, hence why I'm suggesting he's not good enough at present.

Luckycharms_74

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Not a chance, you don't bin a 12 million 20 year old after one season.

I should have said upgraded in my post and let him fight for his place then

NukaCola

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

How did you feel about the likes of Lucas and Henderson when their Liverpool careers got off to less than stellar starts? Did you want them replaced?

rob316 wrote: »

Don't try to reason with it. Too many fans today have little patience for a player.

Lads, he just said he wasn't good enough to be a starter.

We spent 12m on him and while he has a lot of potential he has cost us goals and has been poor defensively. LB isn't a priority anyway and i wouldn't be replacing him just yet, but personally i've been disappointed with him. He's very inconsistent, and thats ok as he's young and I have confidence he will improve but he is not above criticism just because he's young etc it can be excused a bit but he has been poor, no way around it.

Its almost like some people cant be critical of anything LFC related anymore.

Mr.H

Boom_Bap wrote: »

It's sad that Gerrard isn't part of this conversation in his last season.

Henderson by far has been our standout player this year.
By. Far.

The dream would have been lifting the Premiership last season and he could have left for the US then. I think the disappointment from last year and the fact we lost Suarez is what kept him here this season which is perhaps a season too long.

Disappointing but hopefully after a year or two in the MLS he will either come back as Assistant to the regional manager (:rolleyes: couldn't help the office reference) or else get some management experience at lower leagues or even MLS before eventually coming home to lift the premiership as manager (for non Liverpool fans this is only an ideal scenario for Liverpool. I'm sure non Pool fans don't give a sh1t what happens Gerrard, nor should they)

Knex*

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Lucas wasn't first choice when he started at Liverpool. There was a certain amount of consternation about both of them though on this thread. I did argue we were paying too much for Henderson the summer we signed him but both him and Lucas worked hard, never hid and were never costing us games imo.

If we had a different player performing competently than Moreno we might have got results in our past two league games. Unfortunately he has been really dreadful lately, hence why I'm suggesting he's not good enough at present.

Henderson hid his entire first season. He completely played within himself. Similar to what I think Markovic, and even Lallana, is suffering from, tbh.

You can see they have great technical ability, and good intelligence on the pitch, but it seems they're still getting used to the stage. There's plenty of time for Markovic, Lallana has been very disappointing, imo.

NukaCola

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Not a chance, you don't bin a 12 million 20 year old after one season.

While I agree, Moreno is 23 in the summer, still young of course......just thought I'd mention it

NukaCola

Knex. wrote: »

You can see they have great technical ability

Ya, great technicians alright, that cant be denied :P

noodler

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

How did you feel about the likes of Lucas and Henderson when their Liverpool careers got off to less than stellar starts? Did you want them replaced?

rob316 wrote: »

Don't try to reason with it. Too many fans today have little patience for a player.

Meh, for every Lucas and Henderson there is a Balotelli, an Alberto, an Aqualani, a Borini, an Illori, a Coates, the list goes on and on.

Cherry picking Lucas and Henderson is just convenient for the purposes of defending Moreno.

Vicxas

noodler wrote: »

Meh, for every Lucas and Henderson there is a Balotelli, an Alberto, an Aqualani, a Borini, an Illori, a Coates, the list goes on and on.

Cherry picking Lucas and Henderson is just convenient for the purposes of defending Moreno.

I, I quite like Moreno......


Whats wrong with Moreno? He's no Johnson thats for damn sure

Harry Palmr

noodler wrote: »

Meh, for every Lucas and Henderson there is a Balotelli, an Alberto, an Aqualani, a Borini, an Illori, a Coates, the list goes on and on.

Cherry picking Lucas and Henderson is just convenient for the purposes of defending Moreno.

and how much do you know of Ilori would you say the same of Origi?

Caovyn Lineah

noodler wrote: »

Meh, for every Lucas and Henderson there is a Balotelli, an Alberto, an Aqualani, a Borini, an Illori, a Coates, the list goes on and on.

Cherry picking Lucas and Henderson is just convenient for the purposes of defending Moreno.

It's not convenience, it's showing how ridiculous it is to judge a player after less than 30 games for the club.

Mr.H

Harry Palmr wrote: »

and how much do you know of Ilori would you say the same of Origi?

I was about to say the same. The kid hasn't had a chance here yet. he looks a great addition to be honest and expect him to probably replace Toure next year

NukaCola

Vicxas wrote: »

I, I quite like Moreno......


Whats wrong with Moreno? He's no Johnson thats for damn sure

In the majority of games I've seen,

He cant defend against pace.
Positionally poor.
Too inconsistent in his crossing.
Switches off a lot.
Overall poor decision making.

Now, i may be being a bit harsh but not all of those will just improve with age as many of us hope they will. He has plenty of positive's too but basing on what I've seen he's been poor. Lots of promise and potential but if we are being honest his first season has been poor. Should he be replaced? I would say no, but at the same time he hasn't done enough to be a starter either.

Would I spend 12m based on his performances? No would be my answer.

RollieFingers

Anyone think we'll see Mario tonight? Love to see him and Studge up top!

NukaCola

Mr.H wrote: »

I was about to say the same. The kid hasn't had a chance here yet. he looks a great addition to be honest and expect him to probably replace Toure next year

Really? I've seen next to nothing of him really to make a good judgement. Is he likely to play a bit next season or would a loan move be better for him?

Harry Palmr

Big article about Joao Carlos Teixeira in the guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/08/joao-teixeira-liverpool-brighton-loan-steven-gerrard?#comment-50129236

Luckycharms_74

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Big article about Joao Carlos Teixeira in the guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/08/joao-teixeira-liverpool-brighton-loan-steven-gerrard?#comment-50129236

Nice article
And dont forget "Mikes" comment :P

Mr.H

NukaCola wrote: »

Really? I've seen next to nothing of him really to make a good judgement. Is he likely to play a bit next season or would a loan move be better for him?

Well I've seen him play 3 times literally. Watch the odd French game I have money on. He might have just had good games when I've seen him play and the fact that its the French league is surely a huge factor.

But he seems to have a deal of pace about him and looks comfortable on the ball. Can be caught out of position at times as he likes to close down players and if he slides in they are gone straight in on goal. His pace is good for a high line but his decision making needs to be worked on.

I think at 22 he probably should start making a few appearances at a higher level than the French league or else he might stall in his development. If he doesn't come back here I hope he is going to a Premiership side.

So far for next year we have Lovren, Skrtel, Toure, Sakho and maybe Can who can play at centre back. Thats 4/5 players to fill 3 spots if we continue to play 3 at the back. We will need another centre back at least.

I can see maybe Toure moving on as we tried to sell him last summer. Can may get more game time in midfield. That leaves Lovren Skrtel and Sakho.

We have Coates, Ilori, Wisdom and Jones all out on loan but realistically cant see the latter two getting much first team action for a team looking at a top 4 fight (next year).

The only logical choice is to bring either Ilori or Coates or both back for next season as squad players.

Of course I could be completely off base