Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note in OP 9/4

Pyjamarama

Was the man city game this year not a big game?!? We showed up in that. Was the semi final against Chelsea not two big games? We showed up in them. This myth that we're spineless is laughably short sighted...

What have you done for me lately... And by lately I mean this month apparently.

NIMAN

J Mysterio wrote: »

After yesterday's game he criticised the team.

By saying they wanted to win too much?

ArmaniJeanss

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Benitez and Rodgers suffered very poor seasons post title challenge for differing reasons. It's counter intuitive but many seem willing to give Rodgers a pass because he has less time in the role and experience when I think it should have been the opposite - i.e. Benitez had done it five years of six; whereas Rodgers has done it one year of three.

Rodgers first year was fine, 61 points was a 9 point improvement on the previous season and exceeded the target you set around Oct/Nov (Don't make me hunt a post down where you set such a target).

This season is almost certain to exceed 61 (57 now) so theoretically he remains on an upward curve. The 84 point outlier of 2013/14 makes this a problematical attitude to take obviously.
And whether its even enough of an upward curve to satisfy FSG is open to question.

K-9

Is it an epic meltdown Monday or just the usual pms cycle?

Talisman

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The problem is this is the reason a guy like Benitez would never be hired in the first place.

Benitez showed he had an eye for talent before the player became a household name and under FSG's ownership the club now have the financial resources to bring in such talents. If David Moores and Rick Parry had come up with the money, Dani Alves would have been a Liverpool player in 2006. Around the same time we were also linked with Sergio Aguero and David Silva.

Where I would see potential conflict is the low-balling negotiation tactics that the club seem to employ, Benitez liked to close the deal quickly before clubs with deeper pockets got involved.

Grayditch

K-9 wrote: »

Is it an epic meltdown Monday or just the usual pms cycle?

An emotional goodbye to the season.

Harry Palmr

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Rodgers first year was fine, 61 points was a 9 point improvement on the previous season and exceeded the target you set around Oct/Nov (Don't make me hunt a post down where you set such a target).

This season is almost certain to exceed 61 (57 now) so theoretically he remains on an upward curve. The 84 point outlier of 2013/14 makes this a problematical attitude to take obviously.

And whether its even enough of an upward curve to satisfy FSG is open to question.

Facts have no place in this discussion. What's so strange/frustrating is that Liverpool were one player from having a pretty good season.

K-9

NIMAN wrote: »

As a total neutral here (don't support any EPL club) I do find Rodgers slightly delusional in a lot of his post match comments.

He is the master of spin, or talking cr@p as I prefer to call it. He never seems to see the negative in any defeat and listening to his press appearances afterwards without knowing the scores, you'd think they won every game.

I'd say Rodgers says more or less the exact same thing after every match, regardless of result, so they don't mean anything at all, whatsoever!

Talisman

rob316 wrote: »

They are an investment firm which is a hedge fund, their goal is to make money for their investors. They love the Red Sox and baseball not LFC and soccer.

Explain how they love the Red Sox and not Liverpool FC.

Talisman

Augeo wrote: »

Do you understand the concept of an investment?
Serious question as you are mentioning you reckon someone is mouthing off when they've consistently stated they reckon FSG are running Liverpool as a business.

They are also American, Red Sox, baseball ......... sporting passion, makes sense to me.

Liverpool, buy at a sensible price, stabilise, increase earnings, cut costs, invest in stadium to ensure future increase in earnings.... yu know invest

Sorry was there a point to your post?

rob316

super_furry wrote: »

And this is what Rodgers has done with all that money.

That is an average of £8.5m per player its chump change in comparison to the rest of the Top 4. Just 2 players over £20m, £20m is a relatively small transfer fee today too. A lot of players there that would demand very low wages.
The best people in any walk of life are paid the best wages, its not rocket science.

Shanotheslayer

rob316 wrote: »

That is an average of £8.5m per player its chump change in comparison to the rest of the Top 4.

I may be wrong think I saw somewhere today that, in the past 4 years I think the difference in Chelseas spending and Liverpool is roughly 20 odd million.

rob316

Talisman wrote: »

Explain how they love the Red Sox and not Liverpool FC.

Seriously you don't need me to explain it. Anyway my original point is their goal is to give a return to their investors, that logic seems absolutely alien to you.

rob316

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I may be wrong think I saw somewhere today that, in the past 4 years I think the difference in Chelseas spending and Liverpool is roughly 20 odd million.

Your probably right, but the issue isn't money spent its what its spent on. We are buying middle shelf players hoping they can reach the top. A better comparison of the 2 clubs would be the wage bill over the last 4 years.

dfx-

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Facts have no place in this discussion. What's so strange/frustrating is that Liverpool were one player from having a pretty good season.

I'd say that's a long way short of the mark from what I've seen. There's players moved all over the pitch bar perhaps Gerrard and Skrtel who are constantly picked in the same place.

The one chance to be given to Rodgers perhaps is that he will be released of the Gerrard burden and his decisions may be clearer, but there is a huge bridge to gap next season. I'm not sure he or anyone else knows who to buy or who he wants.

Damien360

K-9 wrote: »

Is it an epic meltdown Monday or just the usual pms cycle?

This seems to be a step up from the usual meltdown Monday. A lot of questions about Rodgers (Finally) and oddly enough FSG. For their part, they have brought financial stability. They are investing but the investment in players is being squandered. Remember the mess we were in before they arrived. I don't want a return to that.

JohnDaniels

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Facts have no place in this discussion. What's so strange/frustrating is that Liverpool were one player from having a pretty good season.

This likes to get thrown around as fact. While it would have made a difference how significant is anyone's guess. Key elements of last season have been lacking all over the pitch. Gerrard's form has fallen off a cliff, while we failed to recruit any midifleders in the summer capable of stepping into midfield. Sterling form for the most part has been a shadow of last season. We haven't just missed one striker but two for the whole of the season while failing to add any players in the window that the managers trusts or is of sufficent quality. The center back position was suppose to have the quality added in Lovren to upgrade our centre back pairing which has proved to be a disastrous signing. I'm not sure how one signing makes up for all these shortfalls.

Pyjamarama

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I may be wrong think I saw somewhere today that, in the past 4 years I think the difference in Chelseas spending and Liverpool is roughly 20 odd million.

Yeah but looking at the starting points of the teams quality wise... Also Chelsea are prob the most successful club in the transfer market in the world. They buy flops and sell them for a profit.

Pyjamarama

Damien360 wrote: »

A lot of questions about Rodgers (Finally) .

Yeah we should have been questioning him when we were winning 11 out of 13 games or whatever it was...

How the manager who lead us to as close to a league title as we've been in 20 years in a season when at the beginning most were predicting a struggle for top 4 is under pressure after one season which while dissapointing hasn't been a complete disaster is a mystery to me. Should the manager be criticised for certain aspects of his performance? Yes he should. But he's more than earned the time to demonstrate he can continue to develop into a top class manager.

Harry Palmr

dfx- wrote: »

I'd say that's a long way short of the mark from what I've seen. There's players moved all over the pitch bar perhaps Gerrard and Skrtel who are constantly picked in the same place.

The one chance to be given to Rodgers perhaps is that he will be released of the Gerrard burden and his decisions may be clearer, but there is a huge bridge to gap next season. I'm not sure he or anyone else knows who to buy or who he wants.

JohnDaniels wrote: »

This likes to get thrown around as fact. While it would have made a difference how significant is anyone's guess. Key elements of last season have been lacking all over the pitch. Gerrard's form has fallen off a cliff, while we failed to recruit any midifleders in the summer capable of stepping into midfield. Sterling form for the most part has been a shadow of last season. We haven't just missed one striker but two for the whole of the season while failing to add any players in the window that the managers trusts or is of sufficent quality. The center back position was suppose to have the quality added in Lovren to upgrade our centre back pairing which has proved to be a disastrous signing. I'm not sure how one signing makes up for all these shortfalls.

Welcome to my world, long having been an advocate of letting club legends become a liability for a different club! Fergie know when to get rid.

I maintain that one striker would be enough to add say 8-10 points to the tally. Think back wouldn't it have been great to beat Villa (0-1), Everton (1-1), Hull City (0-0), Newcastle (1-0), Sunderland (0-0) don't tell me that wouldn't have been probable with another forward worth the name.

Talisman

rob316 wrote: »

Seriously you don't need me to explain it. Anyway my original point is their goal is to give a return to their investors, that logic seems absolutely alien to you.

If you would be so kind as to draw me a picture with nice pretty colours!

You assert that they love the Red Sox but Liverpool is only an investment. Where does the Nascar team fall? Is it a passion or an investment?

For me they are all investments, long term Liverpool FC has the most earning potential.

Damien360

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Yeah we should have been questioning him when we were winning 11 out of 13 games or whatever it was...

How the manager who lead us to as close to a league title as we've been in 20 years in a season when at the beginning most were predicting a struggle for top 4 is under pressure after one season which while dissapointing hasn't been a complete disaster is a mystery to me. Should the manager be criticised for certain aspects of his performance? Yes he should. But he's more than earned the time to demonstrate he can continue to develop into a top class manager.

17-6-9 with a GD of 11 for this year so far is how I judge him. Considering the money spent, it is a poor return.

Do we give him another 100m to blow away or cut our losses and find someone else that can at least coach a defense and motivate players on the pitch. The performances this year were awful except for the good patch in the middle.

But regardless of those performances I have to look at the season as a whole and it has been disappointing. CL qualification was the benchmark and that is all but gone.

JohnDaniels

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Welcome to my world, long having been an advocate of letting club legends become a liability for a different club! Fergie know when to get rid.

I maintain that one striker would be enough to add say 8-10 points to the tally. Think back wouldn't it have been great to beat Villa (0-1), Everton (1-1), Hull City (0-0), Newcastle (1-0), Sunderland (0-0) don't tell me that wouldn't have been probable with another forward worth the name.

Maybe but you're talking about a 40-50m pound striker in similar quality to Costa. It isn't just as trivial as pointing out, ah sure if we had a top level striker we would be flying. If Southampton had that kind of striker they would be top 4 on fraction of our budget for the rest of the team. I don't think their is a club in the premiership that couldn't say a top striker of that quality wouldn't add points. I more concerned wit how badly we have bought in key positions all over the pitch than the fact a striker may have covered up those deficiencies. The manager after all has also bought his fair share of strikers.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Damien360 wrote: »

17-6-9 with a GD of 11 for this year so far is how I judge him. Considering the money spent, it is a poor return.

Do we give him the transfer committee another 100m to blow away or cut our losses and find someone else that can at least coach a defense and motivate players on the pitch. The performances this year were awful except for the good patch in the middle.

But regardless of those performances I have to look at the season as a whole and it has been disappointing. CL qualification was the benchmark and that is all but gone.

FYP for accuracys sake.:)

Harry Palmr

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Maybe but you're talking about a 40-50m pound striker in similar quality to Costa. It isn't just as trivial as pointing out, ah sure if we had a top level striker we would be flying. If Southampton had that kind of striker they would be top 4 on fraction of our budget for the rest of the team. I don't think their is a club in the premiership that couldn't say a top striker of that quality wouldn't add points. I more concerned wit how badly we have bought in key positions all over the pitch than the fact a striker may have covered up those deficiencies. The manager after all has also bought his fair share of strikers.

Utter bilge! Liverpool spent 20 million on Balo and Lambert that would have done nicely.

Pyjamarama

Damien360 wrote: »

17-6-9 with a GD of 11 for this year so far is how I judge him. Considering the money spent, it is a poor return.

Do we give him another 100m to blow away or cut our losses and find someone else that can at least coach a defense and motivate players on the pitch. The performances this year were awful except for the good patch in the middle.

But regardless of those performances I have to look at the season as a whole and it has been disappointing. CL qualification was the benchmark and that is all but gone.

Had he won the league last year would you want him sacked now?!!

We spent a lot in the summer but we also lost our best player. Something our rivals didn't have to contend with. And we still spent less than Man united who were our biggest rivals on paper for top 4. Surely the expectation was that they'd get top 4...

I think the point is that nobody is arguing that this hasn't been a dissapointing season but it hasn't been a disaster of epic proportions...

The people saying sack Rodgers are the same people who (rightly imo) point to the sacking of Rafa as an awful reactionary decision.

LuckyLloyd

K-9 wrote: »

Is it an epic meltdown Monday or just the usual pms cycle?

I think the conversation has been generally open and interesting tbh. I also think having a 'review' conversation is appropriate given the nature and significance of yesterday's result.

jcsoulinger

This season has been very disappointing but I still believe Rodgers is the best man to take us forward next season, If we do not see improvement then by all means look to replace him.

I think Fsg should come out and back him now just to stop this paper talk going any further and effecting our finish to the season.

Harry Palmr

jcsoulinger wrote: »

This season has been very disappointing but I still believe Rodgers is the best man to take us forward next season, If we do not see improvement then by all means look to replace him.

I think Fsg should come out and back him now just to stop this paper talk going any further and effecting our finish to the season.

Ah the dreaded vote of confidence! Though to be fair I don't think many would read it as that classic statement which comes with a free attached knife in the back.

JohnDaniels

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Utter bilge! Liverpool spent 20 million on Balo and Lambert that would have done nicely.

What striker would you have bought for that money that would have improved us so?

5starpool

I think the minimum Rodgers has earned in his time at the club is another season. No two seasons are the same of course but if we started next season as we did this one I'm not sure he'd survive that really. Firing him and going back to the drawing board would bring even more upheavel than what's already likely to happen this summer.

For whatever reason I'm not 100% sold on Rodgers, but as above it is by far the most sensible decision to at least give him another season. It's looking like it will be another mid 70's total required for top 4 and it is far more difficult now than it was 5 or 10 years ago since City got rich quick.

It's the lack of application that kills me the most though I think. We are not playing with any real intensity at all, and early on in the game on Sunday when it was obvious Villa were harrying us and giving us no time that we were going to struggle as we generally have over the last number of years against teams that play a reasonably high intensity pressing game.

Agent Coulson

JohnDaniels wrote: »

What striker would you have bought for that money that would have improved us so?

Lacazette last summer would have cost about £20/5m this summer he will cost £40m+

Knex*

5starpool wrote: »

I think the minimum Rodgers has earned in his time at the club is another season. No two seasons are the same of course but if we started next season as we did this one I'm not sure he'd survive that really. Firing him and going back to the drawing board would bring even more upheavel than what's already likely to happen this summer.

For whatever reason I'm not 100% sold on Rodgers, but as above it is by far the most sensible decision to at least give him another season. It's looking like it will be another mid 70's total required for top 4 and it is far more difficult now than it was 5 or 10 years ago since City got rich quick.

It's the lack of application that kills me the most though I think. We are not playing with any real intensity at all, and early on in the game on Sunday when it was obvious Villa were harrying us and giving us no time that we were going to struggle as we generally have over the last number of years against teams that play a reasonably high intensity pressing game.

We were thoroughly out fought against Besiktas too, and even Blackburn in the first leg it seemed that way, but really, there's plenty of examples.

Still, couldn't agree with you more on the above, tbh.

Harry Palmr

JohnDaniels wrote: »

What striker would you have bought for that money that would have improved us so?

Lacazette as mentioned, could also have gone for Vela, Bacca, Firmino or someone closer to home like Benteke

Crash Bang Wall

FSG have 2 choices, get rid of BR at the end of the season or back BR in the transfer market this summer. Personally, I havent a clue what they will do, but I think id prefer a new manager, simply because of the lack of emphasis put on defending by the current management setup.

Last season we scored a bucket load of goals, but were ridiculously poor at the back. Call me old fashioned but Id like to see a team I support defending better, and scoring less. For me at least, the idea of winning games 5-3 isnt sustainable over the course of a season. If teams can defend against us we are wide open on the break.

It concerns me that the idea of improving our defending starts and finishes with a change of formation, rather than defensive coaching, and improved defensive displays.

Id be in the Rafa camp, and Id love to have him back. He can work on a budget, and get the best out of limited players, but he would be too hard managed by FSG so cant see it happening.

Either way, will be an interesting summer, but if the gaffer is being sacked, I hope its done early so a new man can come in and bring in players before pre season

JohnDaniels

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Lacazette last summer would have cost about £20/5m this summer he will cost £40m+

Young striker who had one season behind him in the French league where he scored regularly which even then was less than a 1 in 2 record.

Point being 20m in today's market buys you no guarantee of anything. He would have been a punt just like Balo and Markcovic.

Agent Coulson

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Young striker who had one season behind him in the French league where he scored regularly which even then was less than a 1 in 2 record.

Point being 20m in today's market buys you no guarantee of anything. He would have been a punt just like Balo and Markcovic.

You asked for a player who would have improved us for the same money as Balotelli & Lambert neither of who suited the style of play we us.

I gave you Lacazette who would suit or style and would have improved us for the same price.

Here is a list of players that would have suited our style better than Balotelli & Lambert... Musa, Alcacer, Martial, Icardi & Morata

niallo27

Anyway looking ahead. Anyway Liverpool win their next two and Everton do us a favour. Even a draw and the gap could be back to 3. Dare we dream. Everton have ****ed up Utd's season before and they still have arsenal to play.

JohnDaniels

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Lacazette as mentioned, could also have gone for Vela, Bacca, Firmino or someone closer to home like Benteke

Are these serious suggestions as I fail to see how they differ from our current transfer policy apart from the fact you have the benefit of highsight.

Benteke is probably the one that stands out although serious doubts would have been cast over his ability within our fast, fluid playing style of last season. We really didn't seem to want a Bony, Benteke, Falcao target man but a more nuanced player who could play across the front three. Balo wasn't that player either but the fact people are still suggest similar players is baffling.

Rodgers constant changing of the goal posts with whatever formation he stumbles into which works without any clear philosophy clearly doesn't help.

Potential Underachiever

Searching for lacazette in posts by Agent Coulson

26 Results (0.00056 seconds)

I think it's safe to say you like the lad, could be handier if you had 'sign Lacazette' as your signature!

5starpool

niallo27 wrote: »

Anyway looking ahead. Anyway Liverpool win their next two and Everton do us a favour. Even a draw and the gap could be back to 3. Dare we dream. Everton have ****ed up Utd's season before and they still have arsenal to play.

Do you think we'd get the 16/18 points from our remaining fixtures we'd need to have a sporting chance even? It's possible one of the teams above us drops enough points for us to theoretically catch, but I can't see that happening as well as us getting enough points to take advantage.

Possible, but very much an outside shot.

Knex*

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Searching for lacazette in posts by Agent Coulson

26 Results (0.00056 seconds)

I think it's safe to say you like the lad, could be handier if you had 'sign Lacazette' as your signature!

If Rebel can get Suarez, there's hope for everyone.

Except Kess and Hazard. That one is dead in the water, I'm afraid.

Agent Coulson

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Searching for lacazette in posts by Agent Coulson

26 Results (0.00056 seconds)

I think it's safe to say you like the lad, could be handier if you had 'sign Lacazette' as your signature!

That post is just creepy really do you stalk the post history of everyone who posts here.

JohnDaniels

Agent Coulson wrote: »

You asked for a player who would have improved us for the same money as Balotelli & Lambert neither of who suited the style of play we us.

I gave you Lacazette who would suit or style and would have improved us for the same price.

Here is a list of players that would have suited our style better than Balotelli & Lambert... Musa, Alcacer, Martial, Icardi & Morata

I asked for someone who would have almost certainly improved us like a Sanchez. Those players dont exsist at a 20m pound level with any degree of certainty.

niallo27

5starpool wrote: »

Do you think we'd get the 16/18 points from our remaining fixtures we'd need to have a sporting chance even? It's possible one of the teams above us drops enough points for us to theoretically catch, but I can't see that happening as well as us getting enough points to take advantage.

Possible, but very much an outside shot.

I know but have to have a little hope our else what's the point. Utd do have hull away last day and it looks like Hull will need a result to stay up.

Potential Underachiever

Agent Coulson wrote: »

That post is just creepy really do you stalk the post history of everyone who posts here.

How is it creepy? I observed that you seem to mention Lacazette on a regular basis, I searched using your name and key word Lacazette (took less than a second) and my observation was correct.

googled eyes

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Searching for lacazette in posts by Agent Coulson

26 Results (0.00056 seconds)

I think it's safe to say you like the lad, could be handier if you had 'sign Lacazette' as your signature!

Potential Underachiever

googled eyes wrote: »

MD1990

https://twitter.com/GFN_France/status/589895110843858944

Have my doubts about Lacazette. Not been impressed with his general play the last few months either. Not sure he would be worth 30-40m. I would prefer Vietto.

Knex*

+1 with regards to Vietto.

Think he'd fit in fantastically with us too.