Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note in OP 9/4

murpho999

Talisman wrote: »

We lost 50 goals, but we didn't need to replace them - another 10 goals could have us comfortably in the top 4. The team selections and tactics of the manager have been responsible for a large part of our undoing this season. We have players that could play up front in a partnership but the manager insisted in shoehorning them into a lone forward role or not bother including them in the squad - a brave/foolish decision.

I don't agree with this. We don't have the players to play up front and make the difference required.

Mario has the ability but not application so will go in the summer.

Borini is beyond useless and not of the level required.

Lambert not suited to our system at all.

Top 4 was blown in the summer with the signings made, simple as that. A couple of good goalscorers that would worry defenders would have created spaces elsewhere and would have made all the difference.

Utopia Parkway

At least Everton have played with a bit of urgency and intensity today. Compared to how we sleepwalked into the United game and allowed them to dictate from the first minute.

Jon Stark

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Looks like a missed op a tune titty

Looks like they've lost motivation because they know their target finish is sewn up. So infuriating to watch this knowing that it means fcuk all for us.

monkey9

Ardent wrote: »

Doesn't matter what happens today. Blew any hope of top 4 yesterday and we're not good enough to do what's needed in our remaining fixtures.

I concur. I haven't even looked at our position in the league table since the Arsenal debacle. This doesn't bother me at all, as usual I'm enjoying watching Man U get hammered.

MD1990

Get a win midweek & we have an outside chance still.

ricero

Were not good enough for top 4. Its as simple as that.

Osmosis Jones

MD1990 wrote: »

Get a win midweek & we have an outside chance still.

we dont, its over

JohnDaniels

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ok, ignore fees altogether.

The correct players weren't brought in, simple as that.

The problem then becomes, what top level players do you go after at those wage levels? Markovic is probably on 40k, where do you look for a winger on those kind of wages? Balo took a 50% pay cut to join us and is on around 80k. No top level striker is on those kind of wages. Again the club puts value and wage savings over bringing in the right player. We should be getting better from Lallana/Lovren for the wages/fee but again the kind of wages they are on isn't really top level in the era of the new PL TV deal. Falcao or Di Maria are both individually on more each than all of those players combined which shows you what we are competing against.

We have entered a new dawn of wages within the PL for top players. We haven't just not starting paying those wages to players but have instead reign in spending on wages. FSG hide behind the smoke of mirrors of transfer fees, news stories of trying but always failing for the real top shelf players and letters to fans about how we will compete with any club on wages. It is all horsehit. FSG need to sanction the ability to pay a couple of players big money in wages to inject real quality into this squad over the summer.

the kelt

MD1990 wrote: »

Get a win midweek & we have an outside chance still.

It's the optimism that will kill you mate, the what if!

We don't have enough goals in the team to scrape a one nil win at the moment, Utd or city won't lose enough and even if they did the goal difference is like an extra point.

To have a slim chance we would need to win every remaining game, we just don't have the goals in our team.

Jon Stark

ricero wrote: »

Were not good enough for top 4. Its as simple as that.

Not to beat a dead horse but yeah the team is good enough to challenge with 5 games to go, on paper at least. The team getting its stuff together in January demonstrates this. Something has gone wrong unfortunately in the last few weeks.

ricero

Jon Stark wrote: »

Not to beat a dead horse but yeah the team is good enough to challenge with 5 games to go, on paper at least. The team getting its stuff together in January demonstrates this. Something has gone wrong unfortunately in the last few weeks.

As it's being already alluded to we just don't have enough goals in the side. Story of our season really.

marklazarcovic

there is no other team i like seeing getting stuffed more than utd,because we deeply dislike each others clubs,its the same for them im certain of it ,despite what a few will say just to counteract what i just said.

dont ever want that rivalry to lessen,it wont for me anyway.

rob316

MD1990 wrote: »

Get a win midweek & we have an outside chance still.

Na yesterday finished it.

ynwa_17

The worst thing is, even though there's the prospect of the gap being down to a point before United play next Saturday, I still wouldn't be slightly confident of it happening. If being a Liverpool fan has taught me anything, I won't let any bit of hope kick in, Liverpool have a habit of kicking you square in the bo11ix when there's a prospect of anything.

Hollister11

We missed out on the top 4, because if out shocking start.
I mean there was a stage where in 9 games we lost 5 and won 1!
That's unacceptable!

murpho999

marklazarcovic wrote: »

there is no other team i like seeing getting stuffed more than utd,because we deeply dislike each others clubs,its the same for them im certain of it ,despite what a few will say just to counteract what i just said.

dont ever want that rivalry to lessen,it wont for me anyway.

Agree totally.

I'm also impressed at how few Liverpool fans are entering the match thread and 'baiting' as they are always accused of when Utd lose.

5starpool

MD1990 wrote: »

Get a win midweek & we have an outside chance still.

Technically yes, actually, no.

I expect Hull to get something from that game anyhow.

Iused2likebusts

Felt a few weeks ago utd would drop enough points to let us back into it as they have struggled away from home this year and 4 of their lat 6 game were away. The problem was could we win the games to capitalise which we haven't and won't .

5starpool

murpho999 wrote: »

Agree totally.

I'm also impressed at how few Liverpool fans are entering the match thread and 'baiting' as they are always accused of when Utd lose.

If it meant anything there would be loads, but we (almost) all know the gig is up.

murpho999

5starpool wrote: »

If it meant anything there would be loads, but we (almost) all know the gig is up.

Yes, but if it was the other way round I'd say it would be different.

Hollister11

Hollister11 wrote: »

We missed out on the top 4, because if out shocking start.
I mean there was a stage where in 9 games we lost 5 and won 1!
That's unacceptable!

Yeah we were always playing catch up.

Devilman40k

JohnDaniels wrote: »

We have entered a new dawn of wages within the PL for top players. We haven't just not starting paying those wages to players but have instead reign in spending on wages. FSG hide behind the smoke of mirrors of transfer fees, news stories of trying but always failing for the real top shelf players and letters to fans about how we will compete with any club on wages. It is all horsehit. FSG need to sanction the ability to pay a couple of players big money in wages to inject real quality into this squad over the summer.

And bankrupt the club? We currently spend over half of everything we make on player waged the problem is we take in half what Utd do in revenue....THAT is the problem.

We can't spend what we don't have and we currently don't generate the revenues to compete. That's not just down to FSG that goes back to Moores and Robinson when they didn't expand/leave Anfield when Utd were doubling the size of Old Trafford.

We have 20+ years of off the pitch mismanagement to sort first

the kelt

JohnDaniels wrote: »

The problem then becomes, what top level players do you go after at those wage levels? Markovic is probably on 40k, where do you look for a winger on those kind of wages? Balo took a 50% pay cut to join us and is on around 80k. No top level striker is on those kind of wages. Again the club puts value and wage savings over bringing in the right player. We should be getting better from Lallana/Lovren for the wages/fee but again the kind of wages they are on isn't really top level in the era of the new PL TV deal. Falcao or Di Maria are both individually on more each than all of those players combined which shows you what we are competing against.

We have entered a new dawn of wages within the PL for top players. We haven't just not starting paying those wages to players but have instead reign in spending on wages. FSG hide behind the smoke of mirrors of transfer fees, news stories of trying but always failing for the real top shelf players and letters to fans about how we will compete with any club on wages. It is all horsehit. FSG need to sanction the ability to pay a couple of players big money in wages to inject real quality into this squad over the summer.

That's it in a nutshell, FSG love quoting transfer fees knowing full well that's only half the picture.

Take the lalanna deal compared to say Sanchez at Arsenal:
Obviously, there is the £23m we paid for the player, but there is also his wages. According to LFCHistory.net, he is on a 4 year deal of (estimated) £80,000 a week, this will equate to a total outlay of just under £40m if he fulfils his entire contract with the Reds. People have mentioned ‘Why didn’t we just spend more and get someone like Sanchez?’. Well, if you look at hismove to Arsenal for £30m and wages of £150,000, the entire deal will cost them over £61m for 4 years. Over 50% more than Lallana will cost the Reds. In reality Sanchez was ruled out on wages.

The same with Fabregas, in transfer fee criteria didn't cost an awful lot more than Lalann but is on £200k so do the maths and that's another player we haven't a chance to get.

Wages are king these days, we don't compete at the top level wages wise, we won't compete at the top level football wise, very simple.

Jon Stark

Hollister11 wrote: »

We missed out on the top 4, because if out shocking start.
I mean there was a stage where in 9 games we lost 5 and won 1!
That's unacceptable!

You know I could live with this being a transitional season with the squad being beefed up, if IF I could be happy in the knowledge that we'll go out in the summer and go all out for the 2 or 3 players in their peak that we need.

But we won't do it. Depay is an illustration of what I don't want; paying hefty money for a player in vogue in a poor league. It worked out with Luis but we all know he's a one in a million.

djPSB

Hollister11 wrote: »

We missed out on the top 4, because if out shocking start.
I mean there was a stage where in 9 games we lost 5 and won 1!
That's unacceptable!

Losing to United at home was the gamechanger.

viper006

The result yesterday looks to have being an amazing opportunity to chance United wasted. Win yesterday and it's 4 behind united with a game in hand.

Gutted now how we are literally throwing 4th away without a decent fight.

niallo27

viper006 wrote: »

The result yesterday looks to have being an amazing opportunity to chance United wasted. Win yesterday and it's 4 behind united with a game in hand.

Gutted now how we are literally throwing 4th away without a decent fight.

5 points

Iused2likebusts

djPSB wrote: »

Losing to United at home was the gamechanger.

Losing twice to utd is pretty much the difference.

Gbear

Despite everything, if we had even had Sturridge fit and on form for half the games in the 2nd half of the season it probably would've been enough to get top 4.

Consistent noises inside and outside the club would suggest that he's nowhere near committed enough. There's looking after yourself and there's stealing a living.

At times it feels like Sturridge does more of the latter than the former.

He can **** off if he thinks his record for us earns him the right to be thought of as our main man.

He needs to be replaced and treated as a bonus when fit. We can't build our attack around someone like that.

I sincerely hope his suppose 150k a week contract is heavily incentive based because if he's getting that every week it's just dumping money down the jacks.

Mr Alan

We really should have gotten top 4 this year. Huge chance blown.

MightyMandarin

the kelt wrote: »

Wages are king these days, we don't compete at the top level wages wise, we won't compete at the top level football wise, very simple.

This. Hopefully FSG will have some balls and start offering competitive wages this summer. Now that Johnson (90k/week), Gerrard (150k/week) are leaving, this means they have some room. Balotelli will hopefully go, so that's another 80k/week, plus if (hopefully) he gets rid of other deadwood like Aspas, Enrique, Alberto etc. then FSG will have plenty room to buy less quantity, but a higher quality of player.

If we have any hope of going after Depay, Lacazette, Milner, Pjanic etc. we will have to offer as much, and possibly more than United, Chelsea, Arsenal and City in order to get them. The only reason United got Di Maria and Falcao was because they offered them >200k/week.

Players will still come to you if you don't have CL football, so long as you pay them enough.

5starpool

I just noticed some videos on my laptop and opened them to see what they were. They were the videos of the team coach on approach to Anfield last year on April 27th just before the game vs Chelsea. THe atmosphere and belief that we were in deed going to win the league was amazing. It's gutting how things have changed in the last 365 days.

marklazarcovic

id be surprised if we got rid of mario without subsidising his wages wherever he ends up,he's a busted flush now

Talisman

Some people don't get/choose to ignore the implications of Financial Fair Play. There is no quick fix, the club has to be self sustaining. It's no longer possible to do a Leeds Utd on it and bet the club's future success on a massive splurge.

Utopia Parkway

Had we won yesterday and won midweek we would have been 2 points behind United and them playing Arsenal next weekend. A chance we could have gone above them into 4th by next Sunday evening. Would have made it very interesting. That's why you have to keep winning. Always a chance others ahead of you will drop points. City very nearly did. United did. Unfortunately we couldn't keep the pressure on.

JohnDaniels

Devilman40k wrote: »

And bankrupt the club? We currently spend over half of everything we make on player waged the problem is we take in half what Utd do in revenue....THAT is the problem.

We can't spend what we don't have and we currently don't generate the revenues to compete. That's not just down to FSG that goes back to Moores and Robinson when they didn't expand/leave Anfield when Utd were doubling the size of Old Trafford.

We have 20+ years of off the pitch mismanagement to sort first

Our biggest wages earner by a distance Suarez left last season. He is being followed out the door by Johnson and Gerrard. That is a huge amount of wages. The new deal with Sky and BT producing a further 70% in PL TV revenue. It estimates clubs finishing towards the top of the table will receive around £150 million a season, which would represent an additional £50 million increase. £50 million is a ****ing whooping increase. Even without all that our wages to turner over ratio was just above a very healthy 56%, the lowest for five years. That is taking into account almost every bonus and pay related incentive was paid to the squad last season due to the 2nd place finish. That will drop dramatically this season. No one is asking the club to spend recklessly. It is well within our means to slap a couple of very big earners on our books.

Talisman

murpho999 wrote: »

Top 4 was blown in the summer with the signings made, simple as that. A couple of good goalscorers that would worry defenders would have created spaces elsewhere and would have made all the difference.

It's not as simple as sign more goal scorers - the system has to create the opportunities for them. Suarez created opportunities from nothing for both himself and those around him. The reality is last season's system was never going to work without Suarez, it was setup to get the most from him, yet the manager persisted with it until Markovic was sent off in the final Champions League game on December 9th.

Sturridge, Balotelli and Lambert all need a strike partner. Sterling has played up front on his own and offered less of a threat than he did last season - he's a provider, not a scorer.

Square pegs in round holes was never going to bring the desired results.

murpho999

5starpool wrote: »

I just noticed some videos on my laptop and opened them to see what they were. They were the videos of the team coach on approach to Anfield last year on April 27th just before the game vs Chelsea. THe atmosphere and belief that we were in deed going to win the league was amazing. It's gutting how things have changed in the last 365 days.

Yes, it's very frustrating.

That game was a sickener that I am still not over, how Gerrard slipped, how Chelsea contained us, how we didn't just play for the draw and finally that Aspas corner for Chelsea's second and Torres celebrating! Awful.

Vicxas

Everton really showed today how to play pacey counter attacking football.

Another sh1te weekend from a top 4 perspective.

5starpool

murpho999 wrote: »

Yes, but if it was the other way round I'd say it would be different.

I don't think so. Both sets are as bad as each other at that. If we had no chance of top 4 and it looked like utd were going to mis out too, or else they had blown their chance to win the title then there would have been plenty given I'd say, and the same the other way round, but in this instance it makes little difference. They are still only 2 points behind City anyhow so could still get 3rd. You'd think second is probably gone, but if they beat Arsenal next week who knows.

Carrick out of their team seems to be the big game changer for them really this season above all others, and given that he is 34 this summer that's good for us. Replacing him will be one of their biggest challenges in the next year.

Knex*

To be honest, I've never really thought top 4 was viable. Even more so since the United game.

Agent Coulson

We need to score more goals?

Then why always leave our fit strikers on the bench or out of the match day squad?

Borini, Balotelli & Lambert may not be the long term options but there are all proven PL goal scorers with other teams.

So maybe if we played strikers and maybe play two of them up front together and maybe we play to their strengths we might have scored goals.


But I really think Rodgers would never play a striker if he could get away with it.

T-K-O

the kelt wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell, FSG love quoting transfer fees knowing full well that's only half the picture.

Take the lalanna deal compared to say Sanchez at Arsenal:
Obviously, there is the £23m we paid for the player, but there is also his wages. According to LFCHistory.net, he is on a 4 year deal of (estimated) £80,000 a week, this will equate to a total outlay of just under £40m if he fulfils his entire contract with the Reds. People have mentioned ‘Why didn’t we just spend more and get someone like Sanchez?’. Well, if you look at hismove to Arsenal for £30m and wages of £150,000, the entire deal will cost them over £61m for 4 years. Over 50% more than Lallana will cost the Reds. In reality Sanchez was ruled out on wages.

The same with Fabregas, in transfer fee criteria didn't cost an awful lot more than Lalann but is on £200k so do the maths and that's another player we haven't a chance to get.

Wages are king these days, we don't compete at the top level wages wise, we won't compete at the top level football wise, very simple.

Sánchez chose arsenal wages didn't come into it.

Jesus Wept

50% extra for a Sanchez over a Lallalllallana is a fooking bargain.

Frogdog

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We need to score more goals?

Then why always leave our fit strikers on the bench or out of the match day squad?

Borini, Balotelli & Lambert may not be the long term options but there are all proven PL goal scorers with other teams.

So maybe if we played strikers and maybe play two of them up front together and maybe we play to their strengths we might have scored goals.


But I really think Rodgers would never play a striker if he could get away with it.

This. All day long, this.

MightyMandarin

The Rodgers wrote: »

50% extra for a Sanchez over a Lallalllallana is a fooking bargain.

I highly doubt FSG would've offered him 150k a week like Arsenal did.

If we'd offered Alexis 200k/week I think he might've changed his mind.

the kelt

This summer will be interesting.

We are offloading two of our biggest earners in Gerrard and Johnson. We will no doubt offload others this summer, the wage outlay will be significantly reduced.

We have padded put the squad last summer so the situation should be that we have the scope to bring in a few top earners to suplmement the existing squad.

Yet according to Rodgers during the week it's going to be more of the same from the owners. The scope is there for more but I'm sure some form of spin will be put on why we can't.

Agent Coulson

the kelt wrote: »

This summer will be interesting.

We are offloading two of our biggest earners in Gerrard and Johnson. We will no doubt offload others this summer, the wage outlay will be significantly reduced.

We have padded put the squad last summer so the situation should be that we have the scope to bring in a few top earners to suplmement the existing squad.

Yet according to Rodgers during the week it's going to be more of the same from the owners. The scope is there for more but I'm sure some form of spin will be put on why we can't.

FSG have a "Yes" man then and won't get rid of him.

If he is the manager he must demand we get experienced players in now!

If he can't or won't do that we will be singing the same song next summer as well.

MightyMandarin

the kelt wrote: »

Yet according to Rodgers during the week it's going to be more of the same from the owners. The scope is there for more but I'm sure some form of spin will be put on why we can't.

It'll be another 'season of transition', with plenty of 'outstanding performances' but no trophies unless big changes happen off the field.

Gbear

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We need to score more goals?

Then why always leave our fit strikers on the bench or out of the match day squad?

I don't disagree completely. I think Balotelli in particular should have featured more.

They're so **** though that even in a best case scenario any improvement would've been marginal.

Borini is terrible at football, Lambert is a bad fit and possibly a year too far gone and Balotelli doesn't seem to care - he's unfit or sick too often, hasn't improved his game at all in terms of his work off the ball in the final third and has hardly had the impact in front of goal to justify his failings.

Rafa is more practical and frequently tried to make lemonade with the ****ty lemons he had at his disposal, and while having a string of poor "job-doers" often helped us in situations like CL knockout games, I don't think it gets you much over the course of a league season.