Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note in OP 9/4

Francie Barrett · 26-04-2015 8:59pm

The reason we have failed to finish in the top 4 is quite simple. It's not the goalkeeper, the defenders, or the midfielders. The problem is clearly our lack of a top class striker. When you strip out Sturridge, who has been crocked for most of the season, here's what our other three strikers have contributed.

Lambert - 2 goals
Balotelli - 1 goal
Borini - 1 goal

There are no if's and but's about it. If we do not lay down the cash and buy a proven striker, then we might as well forget about next season too.

MightyMandarin · 26-04-2015 9:00pm

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Would it have been OK if we'd lost to Arsenal in January and United in February? Is it just that they were one after the other that bothers you?

No, but all I'm saying is if we beat Arsenal and United a few weeks back, then we'd sit in the top4 right now and would've achieved the primary goal of this season. Instead we f*cked it up (as always under BR's reign it seems) and now we're back in the same situation we were 2 years ago.

We also lost a semi-final to a relegation-threatened Villa which, even without top4, would've added a bit of happiness to the season with a cup final. But we f*cked that up too.

shamrock55 · 26-04-2015 9:00pm

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

We've lost 2 league games in 4 months. Against 2 superior teams.

So utd are superier now are they, villa are too i suppose:rolleyes:

Agent Coulson · 26-04-2015 9:03pm

This thread in the last few days feels like I have crossed into..

NukaCola · 26-04-2015 9:04pm

MightyMandarin wrote: »

We also lost a semi-final to a relegation-threatened Villa which, even without top4, would've added a bit of happiness to the season with a cup final. But we f*cked that up too.

We lost to Villa in a one off cup game, its not the first or last time the "favourite" team will lose a cup game. It's no excuse but thats what the FA cup is all about. Poor teams can raise their game to win important matches.

MightyMandarin · 26-04-2015 9:05pm

NukaCola wrote: »

The point is, when you have 22 points from your first 17 games you leave yourself too much to do.

What your saying is if we went unbeaten and won every game since the 3-0 loss to Utd we'll be 4th now, yet its unreasonable to expect that to happen. We'd also need to continue to win our remaining games to make sure of top 4.

A loss to Utd and being beaten by Arsenal is no disgrace, the first half of our season done us, not losing to Utd and Arsenal.

Fair enough.

But all I'm saying is, what's done is done and we had the chance to somewhat rectify the disaster at the start, but failed.

A loss to Arsenal away isn't bad, but if we had any hope of getting 4th we should've beaten our main rivals for it, at home; United. A draw away to Arsenal would've done us brilliantly, and had we won yesterday, those results would still get us 4th spot.

Kerrigooney · 26-04-2015 9:06pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The reason we have failed to finish in the top 4 is quite simple. It's not the goalkeeper, the defenders, or the midfielders. The problem is clearly our lack of a top class striker. When you strip out Sturridge, who has been crocked for most of the season, here's what our other three strikers have contributed.

Lambert - 2 goals
Balotelli - 1 goal
Borini - 1 goal

There are no if's and but's about it. If we do not lay down the cash and buy a proven striker, then we might as well forget about next season too.

Couldn't agree more.

NukaCola · 26-04-2015 9:06pm

MightyMandarin wrote: »

But all I'm saying is, what's done is done and we had the chance to somewhat rectify the disaster at the start, but failed.

I agree.

Kerrigooney · 26-04-2015 9:08pm

People agreeing with each other???

What fresh madness is this?

26-04-2015 9:08pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The reason we have failed to finish in the top 4 is quite simple. It's not the goalkeeper, the defenders, or the midfielders. The problem is clearly our lack of a top class striker. When you strip out Sturridge, who has been crocked for most of the season, here's what our other three strikers have contributed.

Lambert - 2 goals
Balotelli - 1 goal
Borini - 1 goal

There are no if's and but's about it. If we do not lay down the cash and buy a proven striker, then we might as well forget about next season too.

Jaysus, when you see it written down like that :eek:

MightyMandarin · 26-04-2015 9:08pm

NukaCola wrote: »

We lost to Villa in a one off cup game, its not the first or last time the "favourite" team will lose a cup game. It's no excuse but thats what the FA cup is all about. Poor teams can raise their game to win important matches.

F*ck that. We played absolutely awful and even then we only lost 2-1. Had we played any way decently we would've won. This is Aston Villa who are still in a relegation battle. It was a task and we failed.

Arsenal played terrible against an over-performing Reading, yet they won. That's the difference.

NukaCola · 26-04-2015 9:09pm

Kerrigooney wrote: »

People agreeing with each other???

What fresh madness is this?

+1

NukaCola · 26-04-2015 9:11pm

MightyMandarin wrote: »

F*ck that. We played absolutely awful and even then we only lost 2-1. Had we played any way decently we would've won. This is Aston Villa who are still in a relegation battle. It was a task and we failed.

Arsenal played terrible against an over-performing Reading, yet they won. That's the difference.

That was kinda my point.....

BenEadir · 26-04-2015 9:15pm

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Charlie Austin has 17 goals playing in an abysmal QPR side, but not in million years would I want us to start Austin unless he proved himself in the PL over a number of years. Even then, Austin is a much better player than Fabio.

Just as well that sort of thinking didn't prevail when we signed and started playing Sturridge, or Sterling, or Owen or Fowler etc etc!!

shamrock55 · 26-04-2015 9:16pm

NukaCola wrote: »

We lost to Villa in a one off cup game, its not the first or last time the "favourite" team will lose a cup game. It's no excuse but thats what the FA cup is all about. Poor teams can raise their game to win important matches.

No problem in loseing a cup game to the underdog if your dominating them or hitting posts and crossbars or their keeper is having a worldy and they score a poxy goal, or a pen or a free kick from their only shot on goal, this happens in sport, but to dish out that clueless half hearted pile of garbage against villa is unforgivable at best

Jon Stark · 26-04-2015 9:16pm

Kirby wrote: »

Rafa's facts presser was cringey. You are right. But it happened once. Rodgers embarrasses himself with his waffle every game. I'd take a good old fashioned "Thats a fact!" lecture over Rodgers insisting that everything is excellent and everyone is outstanding.

I didn't find it cringey tbh, what I find more cringey is a media under the thumb.

MightyMandarin · 26-04-2015 9:23pm

BenEadir wrote: »

Just as well that sort of thinking didn't prevail when we signed and started playing Sturridge, or Sterling, or Owen or Fowler etc etc!!

Well we paid 35m for Andy Caroll who had about 6 months of decent performances in the PL. We paid 10m for Charlie Adam, 20m for Downing, 18m for Johnson, and we put Joe Cole on 90k a week when he came here.

It's fair to say we have signed some amount of utter garbage over the years, a lot of it being players who showed glimpses of brilliance at their own clubs, yet we thought they were good enough to command such transfer fees and wages.

Damien360 · 26-04-2015 9:24pm

Augeo wrote: »

20 points from the last 10 games is f***ing awful?
Please get real.

All is lost. Even Augeo has thrown in the towel

NukaCola · 26-04-2015 9:28pm

shamrock55 wrote: »

No problem in loseing a cup game to the underdog if your dominating them or hitting posts and crossbars or their keeper is having a worldy and they score a poxy goal, or a pen or a free kick from their only shot on goal, this happens in sport, but to dish out that clueless half hearted pile of garbage against villa is unforgivable at best

Yep, as I said it was no excuse, but it does happen. Villa are awful but they did play well, however we were poor on the day. These things happen though, but again, its not an excuse.

SlickRic · 26-04-2015 9:29pm

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

We've lost 2 league games since the middle of December, cop yourself on.

lol.

I said 'recent', not 'since December', and I stand by it, thank you. If you're happy with the recent form, more power to you.

Also, calm the aggression down. No need at all.

Knex* · 26-04-2015 9:31pm

the kelt wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell, FSG love quoting transfer fees knowing full well that's only half the picture.

Take the lalanna deal compared to say Sanchez at Arsenal:
Obviously, there is the £23m we paid for the player, but there is also his wages. According to LFCHistory.net, he is on a 4 year deal of (estimated) £80,000 a week, this will equate to a total outlay of just under £40m if he fulfils his entire contract with the Reds. People have mentioned ‘Why didn’t we just spend more and get someone like Sanchez?’. Well, if you look at hismove to Arsenal for £30m and wages of £150,000, the entire deal will cost them over £61m for 4 years. Over 50% more than Lallana will cost the Reds. In reality Sanchez was ruled out on wages.

The same with Fabregas, in transfer fee criteria didn't cost an awful lot more than Lalann but is on £200k so do the maths and that's another player we haven't a chance to get.

Wages are king these days, we don't compete at the top level wages wise, we won't compete at the top level football wise, very simple.

Probably why we shouldn't be paying Sterling 150k a week until he can actually perform and contribute at the same level of Sanchez, etc.

Talisman · 26-04-2015 9:32pm

shamrock55 wrote: »

So utd are superier now are they, villa are too i suppose:rolleyes:

The results would seem to confirm it - we're actually at West Brom's level.

West Brom 0-0 Liverpool

Aston Villa 2-1 Liverpool
Aston Villa 2-1 West Brom

West Brom 1-0 Southampton
Southampton 0-2 Liverpool

West Brom 2-0 Swansea
Swansea 0-1 Liverpool

Crystal Palace 0-2 Liverpool
Crystal Palace 1-2 West Brom

Any further proof required? The good news is that based upon this proof we can predict with a great degree of accuracy how the rest of our results for this season are going to turn out. Think of the killings we'll make in the bookies!

Hull 0-1 Liverpool
Liverpool 1-4 QPR
Chelsea 2-0 Liverpool
Liverpool 2-2 Crystal Palace
Stoke 2-0 Liverpool

The team obviously show character in the run-in and the outstanding 4/15 points return reflects that. Those 4 points will secure 7th place in the league and ensure we have an early Europa League campaign start next season.

SlickRic · 26-04-2015 9:39pm

The problem is goals, it's pretty simple.

The club didn't buy anyone (or group of players) that could replace the contributions of Suarez. Rodgers didn't realise it until around November, at which point we changed system to solidify ourselves so we didn't have to score loads to win games.

We've become decent, but we have never scored enough goals to properly compete.

The fault lies primarily with our recruitment policy. Until that changes, whoever the manager is is going to be up against it.

BenEadir · 26-04-2015 9:40pm

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Well we paid 35m for Andy Caroll who had about 6 months of decent performances in the PL. We paid 10m for Charlie Adam, 20m for Downing, 18m for Johnson, and we put Joe Cole on 90k a week when he came here.

Correct on all counts but most of those (Downing, Johnson and Cole) all had "years of PL experience" under their belts before we signed them.

Years of PL experience at less ambitious/pressurised clubs really counts for nothing.

Couthino, Can, Sterling, Ibe, Sakho. None of them have years of PL experience under their belts (or had before we signed them) but they are the future of the club.

Vicxas · 26-04-2015 9:42pm

I will be so happy to see the back of Johnson at the end of the season.

He has been toxic since the middle of last season.

Caovyn Lineah · 26-04-2015 9:45pm

SlickRic wrote: »

lol.

I said 'recent', not 'since December', and I stand by it, thank you. If you're happy with the recent form, more power to you.

Also, calm the aggression down. No need at all.

Aggression? No aggression here pal.

MightyMandarin · 26-04-2015 9:46pm

BenEadir wrote: »

Correct on all counts but most of those (Downing, Johnson and Cole) all had "years of PL experience" under their belts before we signed them.

Years of PL experience at less ambitious/pressurised clubs really counts for nothing.

Couthino, Can, Sterling, Ibe, Sakho. None of them have years of PL experience under their belts (or had before we signed them) but they are the future of the club.

I mean a high-level of performance for a consistent period. Grant Holt scored 16 goals in his debut season with Norwich in the PL, yet he was absolute sh*t after that.

Those players you mentioned either cost next to nothing, or had performed well in their own league for a few years (Sakho). Ok Can and Coutinho hadn't done much, but they were still cheap. I doubt QPR would let Austin go for 10m.

SlickRic · 26-04-2015 9:49pm

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Aggression? No aggression here pal.

Ok, I'll spell it out so...

Please refrain from telling people to cop on. It's unnecessarily confrontational.

This discussion ends now. Any problems, please take it to PM. Thanks.

Talisman · 26-04-2015 9:53pm

BenEadir wrote: »

Years of PL experience at less ambitious/pressurised clubs really counts for nothing.

Johnson and Cole both won the league at Chelsea under Mourinho. Downing was a crazy purchase, we went in to purchase Young, got mugged in the process and while still in a daze purchased the one season wonder that was Stewart Downing.

murpho999 · 26-04-2015 10:11pm

Scratching my head at people saying that Borini hasn't scored as he hasn't had a run in the team and they don't wonder why the manager has not given him a run in the team.

Super-Rush · 26-04-2015 10:14pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Scratching my head at people saying that Borini hasn't scored as he hasn't had a run in the team and they don't wonder why the manager has not given him a run in the team.

This is true.

Rodgers started Borini against Villa away, he played well and scored.

Then he drops him immediately.

murpho999 · 26-04-2015 10:19pm

Super-Rush wrote: »

This is true.

Rodgers started Borini against Villa away, he played well and scored.

Then he drops him immediately.

His only goal in 18 appearances, enough for me.

Ferris_Bueller · 26-04-2015 10:25pm

Why do some so many fans feel entitled to Champions League football? It's not a disaster missing out on it this year, in fact it's been the norm now for the past few years realistically. Of course it's disappointing after last season but last year was definitely a case of over achieving, it doesn't change the fact that our squad is still not one of the top four in England. I feel as if some fans have unrealistically high expectations for where the club is currently at.

For me the biggest disappointment of it all has been the signings, we squandered the Suarez money at a time where we had CL football and might have been more attractive to players after finishing second in the league. Now we're back to having no CL football and presumably won't have as big of a transfer kitty as last year, I can really see us struggling to attract players good enough if we're looking to break into the top 4 long term. We're going to be looking for players a level below what the likes of City, Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal are looking for. If we can't offer big wages, trophies, CL football why would great players want to come here? When you look at the past five seasons we've finished 2nd, 7th, 8th, 6th & 7th. Everton for example have finished 5th, 6th, 7th, 7th & 8th, while Spurs have finished 6th, 5th, 4th, 5th & 4th. That is more the level we've been at over the past few years when you look at it from an outsiders perspective, I know Liverpool are a bigger club than both of those but that won't be players main focus when they're thinking about who to sign for.

Rodgers signings have been his biggest downfall. I would give him another season but if we're in the same boat this time next year I think it's time to look elsewhere, there is a lot of pressure on him to sign the right players this summer but as I've said before I really don't have confidence in us to do so, last summer was the time to do that, this summer I think we will have a tougher battle on our hands trying to convince players to come here.

brevity · 26-04-2015 10:31pm

Borini isn't at our level at all but he hasn't been treated fairly either IMO. I think he should have played when we had no strikers and I also think he should play with another striker. To his credit he hasn't bitched or moaned in the press, just seemed to keep his head down about the whole thing.

Also, the "why didn't he **** off to Sunderland" comments are embarrassing IMO.

BeepBeep67 · 26-04-2015 10:36pm

NukaCola wrote: »

We lost to Villa in a one off cup game, its not the first or last time the "favourite" team will lose a cup game. It's no excuse but thats what the FA cup is all about. Poor teams can raise their game to win important matches.

Was talking to a few of the legends team that were on hospitality duty at Wembley.
They said it was a head scratching performance and the worst they can recall at Wembley.
Something must be going sour behind the scenes.

Agent Coulson · 26-04-2015 11:23pm

Pyjamarama · 27-04-2015 12:00am

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Was talking to a few of the legends team that were on hospitality duty at Wembley.
They said it was a head scratching performance and the worst they can recall at Wembley.
Something must be going sour behind the scenes.

Or we just played crap on the day...

dfx- · 27-04-2015 1:19am

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The reason we have failed to finish in the top 4 is quite simple. It's not the goalkeeper, the defenders, or the midfielders. The problem is clearly our lack of a top class striker. When you strip out Sturridge, who has been crocked for most of the season, here's what our other three strikers have contributed.

Lambert - 2 goals
Balotelli - 1 goal
Borini - 1 goal

There are no if's and but's about it. If we do not lay down the cash and buy a proven striker, then we might as well forget about next season too.

But the top scorer has only something like 8 goals, so nobody is producing...

From games I've seen like Swansea away, Leicester at home, Everton away, Southampton away, Villa away (two of those goals above) in the good run and then Arsenal, United, Villa and West Brom, there's no threat in play than perhaps long range shots from Coutinho. There's no chances created.

Away to Swansea was chronic and settled by a freak goal, despite Sturridge being on the pitch. He didn't make any difference.

Yakult · 27-04-2015 1:46am

5starpool wrote: »

Be less silly.

What? So this isn't our season? :O

Jesus Wept · 27-04-2015 2:39am

murpho999 wrote: »

His only goal in 18 appearances, enough for me.

Does 12 seconds of injury time count as an 'appearance'.

Vicxas · 27-04-2015 8:00am

The Rodgers wrote: »

Does 12 seconds of injury time count as an 'appearance'.

12 opportunities to score goals.....

#waste

the kelt · 27-04-2015 8:23am

Super-Rush wrote: »

This is true.

Rodgers started Borini against Villa away, he played well and scored.

Then he drops him immediately.

Yep dropped him immediately in the next game, which happened to coincide with arguably our best performance of the season against Chelsea in the league Cup where we dominated the champions elect only for Chelsea to do what they do and come out with a 1-1 draw.

Having watched Borini play im fairly confident, in fact im certain that level of performance was something Borini could have played no part in.

After that Sturridge returned which put Borini further down the pecking order.

Borini hasnt been treated badly, he has just been crap, end of.

Charlie19 · 27-04-2015 8:24am

Borini had four hours of league football spread over 3 starts and 9 from the bench, he managed 1 goal,1 assist, 1 yellow and 1 red.

I think he only bites on 1 finger too.

8-10 · 27-04-2015 8:46am

Borini was Rodgers first signing I believe. It should be clear now that he has fallen short of the expectation BR had for him and I wouldn't lose any sleep if he gets sold. I actually hope he'd go on and further his career elsewhere

Shanotheslayer · 27-04-2015 9:24am

shamrock55 wrote: »

So utd are superier now are they

For pretty much the last 20 odd years yeh

Vicxas · 27-04-2015 9:57am

Woooooo....

F365 Gossip

Monday's Daily Telegraph claims the Reds are plotting a £60m raid on three strikers this summer, with PSV's in-demand Memphis Depay, Aston Villa hot-shot Christian Benteke and Burnley's star striker Danny Ings the men in question.