Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note in OP 9/4

PhiloCypher

This video really puts the lie to that ol' chestnut that he only ever passes sideways and backwards. I mean this was against the league champions so he is hardly more conservative against the cannon fodder. People see what they want to see I guess.

*Edit* Youtube embed fail *Edit*:(

Suffice to say said youtube showed him passing forward alot. You'll just have to take my word for it :pac:

Talisman

The powers that may see Emre Can as the in place replacement for Lucas - it would explain why they accepted an offer for Lucas last summer. We favor versatility in players over specialists, and youth over experience when it comes to signing players. We're more likely to sign Will Hughes from Derby and make him into the player we want than sign an established international player.

The following players have the right age profile and some of them have been linked with the club in the past but I'm not sure we would spend the money on any of them when Can is already in place.

Carvalho (Sporting)
Gundogan (Dortmund)
Illarramendi (Real Madrid)
Nainggolan (Roma)
Pjanic (Roma)
Verratti (PSG)
Xhaka (Borussia Monchengladbach)

Last week there was a media story of Xabi Alonso telling Real Madrid's Asier Illarramendi to consider joining Liverpool. I'm not sure the story is worth anything but he could certainly have a role in our team.

This summer's transfer targets will inform us as to whether the club is content to once again challenge for the top four or are we aiming to push on from there.

Nerdlingr

Lucas hasnt been crucial to our upturn in form. The fact thats he's out and we're still performing to a high standard is proof of that. The mobility and tenacity Allen provided for the 90mins against City Lucas just would not have been able to do, he does not have the legs any more.
The upturn in form is down to the change in formation. Having two midfielders in front of a central back three instead of last year where we had one (at the base of a diamond) in front of a central back two. We needed to make the team more stable. The parts may change but the structure stays the same...and everyone knows their roles inside out. Its a great bit of management by Rodgers.

whatawaster

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Lucas hasnt been crucial to our upturn in form. The fact thats he's out and we're still performing to a high standard is proof of that. The mobility and tenacity Allen provided for the 90mins against City Lucas just would not have been able to do, he does not have the legs any more.
The upturn in form is down to the change in formation. Having two midfielders in front of a central back three instead of last year where we had one (at the base of a diamond) in front of a central back two. We needed to make the team more stable. The parts may change but the structure stays the same...and everyone knows their roles inside out. Its a great bit of management by Rodgers.

He was certainly an important part of our upturn in form.

The switch to a back 3
Wing backs providing more of a threat
Mignolet's upturn in form
Sakho's return to the team
Lucas coming back to near his best
Sterling's switch to striker
Coutinho's form

All important factors, and there are others too.

Pyjamarama

Bandana boy wrote: »

If you do not think Lucas has been crucial to our uptick in form ,then I do not know what games you have been watching.

Allen ,good game against City aside, is nowhere near as effective a player.

And for those who think we should just replace him in the summer ,we have tried for 5 years to replace/upgrade him without success and you could state that UTD and Arsenal have been trying to do the same in that period without success.

Recent events changing people’s perspectives should include more than 1 game !

Lucas has played well this season but that shouldn't hide his limitations. We are at our best when playing with a high tempo pressing game, Lucas can do that but only inside our third. He hasn't the engine to drive forward on the counter and his passing range is limiyed. We 100% should keep him around but if we got a real powerhouse in there I think it would be a huge leap forward for us.

rob316

The turning point was moving to a back 3 and playing a DM. Lucas or Allen, I prefer Lucas I think he reads the game better but Allen really gets himself about.

Playing a back 4 with 2 fullbacks who cant really defend left the centre backs badly exposed and then Gerrard as the DM or "quarterback" was absolute poison to the balance of the team.

We now have 3 CB's who just defend, nothing fancy just the basics. Wingbacks like Moreno concentrate on attacking from deep which is what they are really good at. If Moreno could improve his crossing/delivery we would have a serious player on our hands.

Let's not kid ourselves regarding Lucas/Allen neither are good enough to start consistently if we want to challenge for the league season after season. A top replacement should be a priority if we are going to continue in this system.

Pyjamarama

rob316 wrote: »

We now have 3 CB's who just defend, nothing fancy just the basics.

Have you seen Can play?!? Box to box centrehalf.

brevity

Ruben Neves is the guy I'm thinking of...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/meet-ruben-neves-liverpool-target-4657205

brevity

Very surprised at people still underestimating the effect Lucas has on the team.

rob316

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Have you seen Can play?!? Box to box centrehalf.

Ya forgot about Can. His calmness and ball distribution has taken a lot of the jitters out the defence too.

Skrtel for me is playing at a real high level again. I always maintained he was a good defender, let him concentrate on defending in the box and he excels.

Further proof that its the formation change and dropping Gerrard that has seen the upturn is Lovren has started to look much better the last couple of games. He's still got a long way to go but I'm convinced there is a quality CB there.

Gbear

While Allen has shown in the last couple of games that he has the capacity to keep the ball moving as well, he's a long way off having the bite in midfield.

Despite not being punished for it much, our defence has looked a fair bit ropier with Lucas and Sakho out and Can looking a bit less assured.

rob316

brevity wrote: »

Very surprised at people still underestimating the effect Lucas has on the team.

No one is we are merely pointing to the fact its the formation change has been the main factor in our revival. Lucas has been sensational a player I long written off but Allen has filled in while he's been out and the results have continued to be good.

Lucas > allen for me but both offer something different, they aren't like for like.

Francie Barrett

Talisman wrote: »

The powers that may see Emre Can as the in place replacement for Lucas - it would explain why they accepted an offer for Lucas last summer. We favor versatility in players over specialists, and youth over experience when it comes to signing players. We're more likely to sign Will Hughes from Derby and make him into the player we want than sign an established international player.

The following players have the right age profile and some of them have been linked with the club in the past but I'm not sure we would spend the money on any of them when Can is already in place.

Carvalho (Sporting)
Gundogan (Dortmund)
Illarramendi (Real Madrid)
Nainggolan (Roma)
Pjanic (Roma)
Verratti (PSG)
Xhaka (Borussia Monchengladbach)

Last week there was a media story of Xabi Alonso telling Real Madrid's Asier Illarramendi to consider joining Liverpool. I'm not sure the story is worth anything but he could certainly have a role in our team.

This summer's transfer targets will inform us as to whether the club is content to once again challenge for the top four or are we aiming to push on from there.

We're not going to be signing any of those players.

rob316

He's even got Xabi's beard going on, sign him

gafferino

LFC TV free for 24 hours

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video

gafferino

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/15117/9740277/the-making-of-philippe-coutinho-how-liverpool8217s-brazilian-magician-blossomed-into-a-premier-league-star

“Philippe is a Brazilian player and, as it happens with most Brazilians, he has a special magic in his feet,” said Pochettino. “Aside from the magic that he has, he also has an amazing work rate and that makes us doubt whether he fits the mould of a typical Brazilian player or a European one, because his work ethic is outstanding.

"When he has the ball at his feet, he can make things happen for himself and he can make things happen for other players. He is a very special player."
Neymar on Coutinho

“What is important about him is he is a good lad, a good kid - a great, humble person. I do think Coutinho has that same quality that Ronaldinho and Messi have, but he has much to prove yet. What is really clear to me is that Coutinho is a really responsible player - really dedicated and responsible to his own players.”

brevity

brevity wrote: »

Very surprised at people still underestimating the effect Lucas has on the team.

His consistency level is much better than Allen.

Allen was great the other day. He's been fairly inconsistent in his time here imo.

I'd like to see him put in the same shift the next few weeks.

Pyjamarama

Francie Barrett wrote: »

We're not going to be signing any of those players.

pjanic is a player I'd love and is 100% someone we could land. He's more similar to hendo than Lucas tho. But I'd like to have two Hendos.

J Mysterio

I too find the term 'worldy' to be ****.

gafferino

Coutinhos goal from 11 angles

Check out 1.17. He doesnt look up. Knows where everyone is already and goes for it. Class.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video/collections/home-lfc-v-man-city#21074

Nerdlingr

brevity wrote: »

Very surprised at people still underestimating the effect Lucas has on the team.

No-one's underestimating him but saying he's been 'crucial' in our return to form is a bit of an over-estimation in my opinion. Yes he's been good, but the switch in formation was the 'crucial' part.
We've shown in the time since he's been injured that we can cope without Lucas in the team..Allen has stepped up the last few games.
He played 120 mins on Thursday night v Besiktas and was still able to put in a serious shift again on Sunday morning.

J Mysterio

Pyjamarama wrote: »

pjanic is a player I'd love and is 100% someone we could land. He's more similar to hendo than Lucas tho. But I'd like to have two Hendos.

He's great but he's different to both. I see him more like a less mobile Lallana.

Luckycharms_74

gafferino wrote: »

Coutinhos goal from 11 angles

Check out 1.17. He doesnt look up. Knows where everyone is already and goes for it. Class.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video/collections/home-lfc-v-man-city#21074

I'll see your Coutinho & raise you Henderson

The curl on the shot @ 0.57


http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video/collections/home-lfc-v-man-city#21078

brevity

gafferino wrote: »

Coutinhos goal from 11 angles

Check out 1.17. He doesnt look up. Knows where everyone is already and goes for it. Class.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video/collections/home-lfc-v-man-city#21074

Love looking at the crowd reaction in those videos.

Talisman

Nerdlingr wrote: »

The upturn in form is down to the change in formation. Having two midfielders in front of a central back three instead of last year where we had one (at the base of a diamond) in front of a central back two. We needed to make the team more stable. The parts may change but the structure stays the same...and everyone knows their roles inside out. Its a great bit of management by Rodgers.

To insist that it is the system and not the personnel that influenced the form is wrong. The results against Man Utd and Arsenal would suggest it's not just the change of system, it's also the change in personnel that provided the stability.

Lucas wasn't available for the Man Utd game and Gerrard started alongside Allen in the new formation - we lost 3-0 and Allen was heavily criticised for being pulled out of position. If Gerrard hadn't been the player in the centre with Allen there would have been more stability and I doubt very much that we would have conceded 3 goals in the game.

Lucas was back for the Arsenal match and his reading of the game provided stability. Arsenal equalised from a free kick in first half injury time, that was conceded by Gerrard. Once again his presence in the centre had a negative influence on proceedings.

Lucas and Henderson were very effective against Swansea and we got a great result. Gerrard was back in the centre for the home game against Leicester, and once again we gave away a result.

Lucas and Allen each have their own merits and deserve a midfield place ahead of Gerrard. Removing him from the central midfield has brought the stability you spoke of.

Charlie19

PhiloCypher wrote: »

This video really puts the lie to that ol' chestnut that he only ever passes sideways and backwards. I mean this was against the league champions so he is hardly more conservative against the cannon fodder. People see what they want to see I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6BOBe__D4k

Talisman wrote: »

Carvalho (Sporting)
Gundogan (Dortmund)
Illarramendi (Real Madrid)
Nainggolan (Roma)
Pjanic (Roma)
Verratti (PSG)
Xhaka (Borussia Monchengladbach)

Francie Barrett wrote: »

We're not going to be signing any of those players.

Fact!

While I've only seen two of those players actually play, I'd love to know why you think that Liverpool wouldnt be signing any of them.

Nerdlingr

Talisman wrote: »

To insist that it is the system and not the personnel that influenced the form is wrong. The results against Man Utd and Arsenal would suggest it's not just the change of system, it's also the change in personnel that provided the stability.

Lucas wasn't available for the Man Utd game and Gerrard started alongside Allen in the new formation - we lost 3-0 and Allen was heavily criticised for being pulled out of position. If Gerrard hadn't been the player in the centre with Allen there would have been more stability and I doubt very much that we would have conceded 3 goals in the game.

Lucas was back for the Arsenal match and his reading of the game provided stability. Arsenal equalised from a free kick in first half injury time, that was conceded by Gerrard. Once again his presence in the centre had a negative influence on proceedings.

Lucas and Henderson were very effective against Swansea and we got a great result. Gerrard was back in the centre for the home game against Leicester, and once again we gave away a result.

Lucas and Allen each have their own merits and deserve a midfield place ahead of Gerrard. Removing him from the central midfield has brought the stability you spoke of.

You're half correct. Its not about taking one player out, it's tweaking it to put two players in.
I wouldnt take much out of looking and pinpointing individual mistakes either. We had 3 chances to clear that ball against Arsenal (Lucas got beaten for the second header!!). Saying we conceded because of Gerarrd's foul is a stretch. We also played United off the pitch despite losing to them.
And I never said that the personnel didnt influence our form as you posted in your first sentence, of course they do. What I'm saying Lucas is not crucial to it, as we've seen from our last few games.

Liam O

Charlie19 wrote: »

Fact!

While I've only seen two of those players actually play, I'd love to know why you think that Liverpool wouldnt be signing any of them.

Probably because of the competition if any of them decided to leave. Wouldn't be just the Uniteds, Chelseas Citys and Arsenals, but the Barca and Reals and the teams below them. Stranger things have happened but you'd have to pay superclub wages for them, something Liverpool don't really do.

Charlie19

Liam O wrote: »

Probably because of the competition if any of them decided to leave. Wouldn't be just the Uniteds, Chelseas Citys and Arsenals, but the Barca and Reals and the teams below them. Stranger things have happened but you'd have to pay superclub wages for them, something Liverpool don't really do.

Would they be all established first teamers? Ive seen Veratti a few times for PSG and he seems to be a regular and of course Gundogan but the rest I wouldnt be familiar with apart from reading the od link here on boards.

LuckyLloyd

brevity wrote: »

Very surprised at people still underestimating the effect Lucas has on the team.

I'm not!

Pyjamarama

Liam O wrote: »

Probably because of the competition if any of them decided to leave. Wouldn't be just the Uniteds, Chelseas Citys and Arsenals, but the Barca and Reals and the teams below them. Stranger things have happened but you'd have to pay superclub wages for them, something Liverpool don't really do.

I don't think the two Roma boys are going to be demanding anything we couldn't pay. Highly unlikely real or barca would be in for any of those bar maybe carvalho.

Agent Coulson

Charlie19 wrote: »

Would they be all established first teamers? Ive seen Veratti a few times for PSG and he seems to be a regular and of course Gundogan but the rest I wouldnt be familiar with apart from reading the od link here on boards.

The 2 Roma players could be close to £30m each.

Illarramendi could be anywhere between £15m to £25m.

Dickerty

While yiz are watching videos of the Offal, check out Sinclair's goal from the U21 v Chelsea last night.
Cracking finish, he has about 24 for the season now between U18, U21 and UEFA Youth Cup (6 in 7 matches).

At only 18, he's likely to begin to feature in first team squads next season IMO..

NukaCola

brevity wrote: »

Very surprised at people still underestimating the effect Lucas has on the team.

This is the norm for Lucas sadly, totally under valued.

Charlie19

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Illarramendi could be anywhere between £15m to £25m.

That's crazy money for guy that is 24 years of age and only has two first team league appeaances.

Agent Coulson

Charlie19 wrote: »

That's crazy money for guy that is 24 years of age and only has two first team league appeaances.

Madrid paid €33m/£25m for him and they don't like to lose money on players.

Nerdlingr

Fair play to Lucas, he has single-handedly turned our season around :D

Osmosis Jones

Lucas came into the team when we were awful defensively, he helped the team tighten up at the back, we had to grind out a few results and had a few draws, but the defence was brilliant. Without that period we wouldn't be playing the expansive football we're starting to play now, while Lucas isn't currently in the team, his impact this season was vital.

Charlie19

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Madrid paid €33m/£25m for him and they don't like to lose money on players.

I was reading his stats all wrong,;)don't know what I was thinking. Anyways carry on.

x43r0

Dickerty wrote: »

While yiz are watching videos of the Offal, check out Sinclair's goal from the U21 v Chelsea last night.
Cracking finish, he has about 24 for the season now between U18, U21 and UEFA Youth Cup (6 in 7 matches).

At only 18, he's likely to begin to feature in first team squads next season IMO..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6Lvea9LFE0

Dickerty

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Madrid paid €33m/£25m for him and they don't like to lose money on players.

They did on Alonso, Ronaldo, Kaka, Gago...

J Mysterio

Brilliant finish. Apalling defending though.

Dickerty

NukaCola wrote: »

This is the norm for Lucas sadly, totally under valued.

I think if you did a poll, most would agree that he was crucial to the beginning of our good run, it was being mentioned constantly in here at the time...

Agent Coulson

Dickerty wrote: »

They did on Alonso, Ronaldo, Kaka, Gago...

Alonso at 32 leaving for an undisclosed some isn't really a financial loss.

Ronaldo 30 the original one I'm guessing your talking about was a broken player past his prime when they sold him to Milan and got good money for him.

Kaka 30 another broken player past his prime.

They paid big money for the above players and if you consider losing money on players 30+ something then fair enough.

All 3 were played in there prime before FFP was a thing.

Kerrigooney

gafferino wrote: »

LFC TV free for 24 hours

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video

Had it free for the last couple of years until they started charging for it this year and barely turned it on cos it's awful. How anyone is paying for it this year is beyond me.

noodler

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Fair play to Lucas, he has single-handedly turned our season around :D

Things are definitely starting to go the other way now alright!

My thoughts would probably be summed that he is a good man when a team is struggling and needs a bit of steel.

I don't think he has a huge future as a starter in a functioning Rodgers team (the implication there being that he was only called in when it became clear the team wasn't functioning).

Thats a very simplistic summary judgement but I don't see him being able to put in a performance like Allen and Hendo did on Sunday.

Thats not to say Allen and Hendo are perfect, its not to say Lucas is useless, I just don't think he works if we are looking to be on the front foot in games.

mormank

Talisman wrote: »

To insist that it is the system and not the personnel that influenced the form is wrong. The results against Man Utd and Arsenal would suggest it's not just the change of system, it's also the change in personnel that provided the stability.

Lucas wasn't available for the Man Utd game and Gerrard started alongside Allen in the new formation - we lost 3-0 and Allen was heavily criticised for being pulled out of position. If Gerrard hadn't been the player in the centre with Allen there would have been more stability and I doubt very much that we would have conceded 3 goals in the game.

Lucas was back for the Arsenal match and his reading of the game provided stability. Arsenal equalised from a free kick in first half injury time, that was conceded by Gerrard. Once again his presence in the centre had a negative influence on proceedings.

Lucas and Henderson were very effective against Swansea and we got a great result. Gerrard was back in the centre for the home game against Leicester, and once again we gave away a result.

Lucas and Allen each have their own merits and deserve a midfield place ahead of Gerrard. Removing him from the central midfield has brought the stability you spoke of.

Whoa is this the same Utd game you are talking about that we had Brad Jones in goal for. Iirc Jones was at fault for at least two of the goals that day so saying it was all Gerrard's fault is a bit rich to say the least.

DVDM93

Sky Sports Ballon D'Or 2015 odds as of 2/3/2015:

Lucas Leiva 1/2
Lionel Messi 11/10
Cristiano Ronaldo 5/4

kingshankly

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Lucas came into the team when we were awful defensively, he helped the team tighten up at the back, we had to grind out a few results and had a few draws, but the defence was brilliant. Without that period we wouldn't be playing the expansive football we're starting to play now, while Lucas isn't currently in the team, his impact this season was vital.

The change of system has more to do with our improvement than the introduction of Lucas
A defensive midfielder isn't as paramount with three centre halves Allen starts before Lucas every time

Pyjamarama

DVDM93 wrote: »

Sky Sports Ballon D'Or 2015 odds as of 2/3/2015:

Lucas Leiva 1/2
Lionel Messi 11/10
Cristiano Ronaldo 5/4

Juan mata 1/19