"Get your head out of your f$%*#ng a$#@"

BrookieD

OK so i was at a kids game this past weekend and the ref i kid you not shouted at his own players all aged 11/12 yrs "get your fu*&ing head out of your fuc*ing ar$e and show some f%$#ing pride" fill in the letters - full on shouting. As an adult would you take this from a manager/ref? Kids are down from losing anyway so way to pick up there spirits.

Some people need to cup on these are kids playing on a weekend, win lose or its a game ffs :mad:

Is this the state of the kids game...? jesus wept

Liam O

They shouldn't play with their heads up their asses so.

Boskowski

Probably not terribly nice but it's a team sport and its physical. And the last thing someone who gives his spare time to run a soccer team needs is parents telling him how this that and the other thing should be done.

Not sure I'd use that language but I don't know what happened in the build up either. I'm pretty sure though if I had parents coming to me telling me what's appropriate or not I'd ask them why they don't do it themselves then if they know so much about it.

BrookieD

Boskowski wrote: »

Probably not terribly nice but it's a team sport and its physical. And the last thing someone who gives his spare time to run a soccer team needs is parents telling him how this that and the other thing should be done.

Yeah its a team sport but no manager or coach or is asked to ref a half of football should ever shout at kids in his care in this manner.......

I know about managing kids teams also and would never conduct myself in this manner in front of my teams... disgrace

Captain Havoc

I don't know why the ref was getting involved. The language is inappropriate but I agree with the sentiment. Throughout life you will get a bollocking for not putting the effort, whether at sport, school or work. I am a sports coach and a child protection officer (in cycling, not football), my approach would be to encourage better performance, failure should be accepted so long as there is honesty of effort and you are improving.

Soups123

BrookieD wrote: »

OK so i was at a kids game this past weekend and the ref i kid you not shouted at his own players all aged 11/12 yrs "get your fu*&ing head out of your fuc*ing ar$e and show some f%$#ing pride" fill in the letters - full on shouting. As an adult would you take this from a manager/ref? Kids are down from losing anyway so way to pick up there spirits.

Some people need to cup on these are kids playing on a weekend, win lose or its a game ffs :mad:

Is this the state of the kids game...? jesus wept

I see this as a bigger problem, the ref shouldnt have his own players on the pitch

BrookieD

The ref we had pulled out for some reason... game was played with a manager from each side reffin one half each so as to be fair

BrookieD

Soups123 wrote: »

I see this as a bigger problem, the ref shouldnt have his own players on the pitch

Aside from this i have seen this coach before and he acts the same on the sidelines.....

Mars Bar

Ugh. He shouldn't be allowed coach with that attitude but coaches can be like gold dust too.

CSF

Boskowski wrote: »

Probably not terribly nice but it's a team sport and its physical. And the last thing someone who gives his spare time to run a soccer team needs is parents telling him how this that and the other thing should be done.

Not sure I'd use that language but I don't know what happened in the build up either. I'm pretty sure though if I had parents coming to me telling me what's appropriate or not I'd ask them why they don't do it themselves then if they know so much about it.

Nah man, volunteers or not, people like this shouldn't be coaching kids. Get themselves a senior team and live out their dreams of absolute power there instead.

wandatowell

Does the FAI run a course for coaches/volunteers on the do's and do not's of working with kids?

Soups123

Agree with the above, its not suitable for the age group. The aim at this level is coaching not winning and for a coach that can get as frustrated in this way the focus must be more on the win.

As a parent I wouldnt be precious enough to raise it if it was a once off but I would expect him/her to communicate with my kids in an appriopriate manner

anncoates

That's tame compared to some of the stuff that goes on. All it does is contribute to win at all costs, intimidating, low-skill environments which has implications for the whole game here

Any parent or any adult that is disgracing themselves at games like that should be banned from attending.

Mars Bar

wandatowell wrote: »

Does the FAI run a course for coaches/volunteers on the do's and do not's of working with kids?

Well the KickStart 1 and 2 cover it a bit and now a Child Welfare course is compulsory.
You'd think common sense would be enough though wouldn't you?

sky88

some of them coaches are disgraceful went to see the little brothers match whos ten and heard him being called a little c word by the opposing manager. Needless to say i went mad at this and took all my willpower not to hit him a smack

Soups123

anncoates wrote: »

That's tame compared to some of the stuff that goes on. All it does is contribute to win at all costs, intimidating, low-skill environments which has implications for the whole game here

Any parent or any adult that is disgracing themselves at games like that should be banned from attending.

Whilst I agree, I think parents and clubs are finding they have to consider if they will accept some levels of this (win at all cost coaching and undesired approach) or risk not having a coach at all.

Its extremely hard to get coaches

Soups123

Mars Bar wrote: »

Well the KickStart 1 and 2 cover it a bit and now a Child Welfare course is compulsory.
You'd think common sense would be enough though wouldn't you?

The word compulsory is very loose with a lot of clubs, a vast majority of those coaching have not completed these courses!

Mars Bar

Soups123 wrote: »

The word compulsory is very loose with a lot of clubs, a vast majority of those coaching have not completed these courses!

Compulsory won't be loosely used with the Child Welfare course as there are laws coming in for more protection for children. You'll have to be able to give evidence of having the course done.

WoollyRedHat

anncoates wrote: »

That's tame compared to some of the stuff that goes on. All it does is contribute to win at all costs, intimidating, low-skill environments which has implications for the whole game here

Any parent or any adult that is disgracing themselves at games like that should be banned from attending.

Was the same back when I played, grassroots was ****, as you say, the win at all costs mentality.

Soups123

Mars Bar wrote: »

Compulsory won't be loosely used with the Child Welfare course as there are laws coming in for more protection for children. You'll have to be able to give evidence of having the course done.

How long is the child welfare compulsory? If its current then I would say its still loosely applied by clubs.

rob316

I used to play Rugby, we had a coach from the ages 12-14 and he was an absolute nutter but the best coach I ever had in any sport. From the first whistle to the last what he didn't say to you, the team or the opposition was few and far between.

He once said to one of our lads (he was heavy and slow) " If I dangled a bag of chips in front of you would you run quicker you useless cnut!?":pac:

Mars Bar

Only recently. I did mine in October and it had only just been rolled out by the FAI then.

Boskowski

CSF wrote: »

Nah man, volunteers or not, people like this shouldn't be coaching kids. Get themselves a senior team and live out their dreams of absolute power there instead.

I agree with you on the language and if roaring shouting on that too, but at the same time at age 11/12 the years of just flopping the ball around for giggles are definitely over and its about time to start playing some ball. The language is inappropriate for that age I fully agree but a coach - even at that age - must be allowed to dish out some sort of tough love verbally.

TheDoc

OTT at that age group of 11/12 imo. But there is that dilemma really of coaches, parents, how to behave and act etc. around your children playing sport.

I had pretty much the same manager from 7 aside all the way to the end of schoolboy football. So the parents early on knew the score, knew he was good and that they never got involved. The shouting was normally encouragement and on a rare occasion it might be negative if something really stupid happened on the pitch.

In fairness our manager never really had to lash into us. He normally got annoyed if a training session was a bit slack of if a performance was WAY off, he swore so rarely that when he did it got a reaction. But we had some strong characters on the pitch who to be honest did all his roaring and shouting for him.

noodler

Soups123 wrote: »

I see this as a bigger problem, the ref shouldnt have his own players on the pitch

At that agegroup it was fairly regular when I was playing soccer or (especially) GAA at that age group.

Away manager would regularly ref in GAA.

BrookieD

Soups123 wrote: »

Whilst I agree, I think parents and clubs are finding they have to consider if they will accept some levels of this (win at all cost coaching and undesired approach) or risk not having a coach at all.

Its extremely hard to get coaches

Sorry but any club who adopt this should be closed down.... Kids football should be development and coaching but fun... I always state the following

1) its the weekend and your playing football - enjoy it
2)What happens when you win? Home, shower/bath, ps4/xbox?
What happens when you lose? Exactly the same so dont worry about it....
3) ENJOY IT!

BrookieD

Boskowski wrote: »

I agree with you on the language and if roaring shouting on that too, but at the same time at age 11/12 the years of just flopping the ball around for giggles are definitely over and its about time to start playing some ball. The language is inappropriate for that age I fully agree but a coach - even at that age - must be allowed to dish out some sort of tough love verbally.

Thats ok but there is a line you do not cross - berating and verbal abuse is just not on.... One kid left crying - bottom line he was not happy at the way he was treated.....

if this continues the kids game will always be poor -

Call Me Jimmy

There's no dilemma about how to behave when your children are playing sport. Behave like an adult. Shouting from the sidelines achieves **** all but makes the person on the sideline feel like their involved in what is a game being played by children. If a kid is not giving his all, he can be subbed.

When we were younger our whole team was nervous on the ball because ye'd have the managers and parents shouting 'HOOF IT' 'YEEAAARGGH' as soon as it came anywhere near ye. The only thing that was respected was going in hard for tackles and outmuscling the opposition. Booting the ball up for forwards to sprint aimlessly after. The win was everything. While a winning mentality is obviously necessary, for us the football was almost irrelevant. How easily you could beat a player with a simple pass, how much simpler the game is with a bit of composure. From the actions on the sidelines, it was the farthest thing from everyone's mind.

The problem with aggression from coaches is it becomes a game of fear, not mortal fear granted, but ye would never risk anything that could actually be called decent football. 'Fannying about' our manager called it, if you lost the ball trying to link up with teammates rather than kicking it aimlessly up the pitch ye were in trouble.

I just don't think an atmosphere of aggression and fear is needed to motivate youngsters playing a game.

Soups123

BrookieD wrote: »

Sorry but any club who adopt this should be closed down.... Kids football should be development and coaching but fun... I always state the following

1) its the weekend and your playing football - enjoy it
2)What happens when you win? Home, shower/bath, ps4/xbox?
What happens when you lose? Exactly the same so dont worry about it....
3) ENJOY IT!

I'm not saying I agree with it but it's fact, getting someone to commit to running a team is hard and lots compromise more than they would like.

I'm in my second spell of coaching kids and what I see week in week out on the away line can be diabolical

CSF

Boskowski wrote: »

I agree with you on the language and if roaring shouting on that too, but at the same time at age 11/12 the years of just flopping the ball around for giggles are definitely over and its about time to start playing some ball. The language is inappropriate for that age I fully agree but a coach - even at that age - must be allowed to dish out some sort of tough love verbally.

I coached at that age group in DDSL Premier until very recently and it's really not. 11 and 12 year old kids are rarely emotionally developed to take 'tough love'. Sure if their attitude is wrong or they're misbehaving, you have to have a carefully chosen word, but when they're just not performing to your expectations, you need to approach it differently.

I've seen coaches at that age group who rant and rave and while maybe they're good coaches they need to coach older players.

BrookieD

Soups123 wrote: »

I'm not saying I agree with it but it's fact, getting someone to commit to running a team is hard and lots compromise more than they would like.

I'm in my second spell of coaching kids and what I see week in week out on the away line can be diabolical

Same as myself, in a second spell at the moment, and see it week in and week out but this was the extreme... Most times i try and laugh it off but jesus this was harsh beyond measure

anncoates

Roaring, swearing and 'tough love' just contributes to the kind of international teams we currently produce.

That said when the biggest junior clubs are only interested in shopping kids to a similar football environment, you can see why.

LuckyLloyd

anncoates wrote: »

Roaring, swearing and 'tough love' just contributes to the kind of international teams we currently produce.

That said when the biggest junior clubs are only interested in shopping kids to a similar football environment, you can see why.

It's more complex than that though. I wish fixing our conveyor belt to the senior team was as simple as enforcing small sided games all the way up to U16 and making everything about 'player development' in the DDSL.

Unfortunately though, until you sort some of the below out:

- linking elite youth and elite senior football clubs in the country;
- having the FAI establish some control over elite youth football competitions;
- establishing a center of excellence for elite schoolboy kids;
- providing a feed of funding to youth football that negates the need for them to get players across to the UK as a means to funding their clubs;
- taking the politics out of schoolboy International selections;
- providing more scouting resources so that the right players make it onto schoolboy International panels;

The first point is being worked on with the establishment of national U19 and U17 leagues, but it's only scratching the surface.

While we can all agree that roaring and shouting and win at all costs is ridiculous with U12 kids, we have to accept that once we get to U14, U15 and the remaining two years of elite schoolboy football parents and kids are playing for a dream that so few of so many can get a chance at. And winning is important at that stage, dominating your opponents is vital. At the end of the day people will do what is in their own self interest. The long term development of Irish football matters not a jot to a DDSL coach who can sniff an All Ireland or a DDSL kid who has interest from English clubs. And our current setup, for all its faults, arms many Irish kids with the mental and physical traits they require to grind out a low level pro career (and maybe better) in the UK.

On a final point, at some stage youth sport becomes important and winning has value. U12s? Yeah sure, let's quit the roaring and the shouting. U17? Well in that case we are talking about young men who have to sacrifice and commit a lot to live at an elite level. Winning an U17 All Ireland might be one of the better memories anyone could have. It has meaning and is worth fighting for.

Lucas Hood

Aren't coaches taught to offer encouragement with their words nowadays?
Instead of saying "don't give it away" it should be "keep hold of the ball " or "stay on your feet" instead of " don't dive in".

Soups123

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Aren't coaches taught to offer encouragement with their words nowadays?
Instead of saying "don't give it away" it should be "keep hold of the ball " or "stay on your feet" instead of " don't dive in".

Thats the problem a large % arent taught.

Green Giant

This is from a Welsh rugby club but the message can translate to any underage sport.

Diabhal Beag

Kids are too soft these days IMO. Bit of unwarranted abuse did me no harm.

Kirby

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Kids are too soft these days IMO. Bit of unwarranted abuse did me no harm.

The key word in your sentence there is "unwarranted". It's not needed, necessary or helpful.

Shouting at them achieves nothing. If a kid ignores instructions and just does what he wants, you absolutely take him off. But you tell him why. And he'll learn. Screaming abuse at him just makes him resent you and nobody learns anything.

The win at all costs mentality is alive and well at schoolboy football level. I've had opposition coaches leave their subs on the sidelines for the entire game just because they want to win. That adult goes home feeling smug and have his ego boosted because they won.....the child goes home and cries because he didn't get to play. It's not fair and I don't stand for it.

I had a parent come up to me last year all guns blazing because I took off our best player(not even his kid) to give one of the weaker kids 30 minutes on the pitch.....and I told the parent exactly what I always do. I'm not putting winning a game of football ahead of a kids chance to play.

Don't get me wrong, we play at a high level and even my weakest player is a good footballer. It's important there isnt a huge gap in quality in your squad. Im not advocating putting kids who cant kick snow off a rope onto a team with a bunch of kid Messi's. They have to play at their level. But ultimately if we lose games because the star player needs to make way I'll live with it.

Nobody is going to remember who won what underage championship a year from now. The kid who sits on the bench will remember it for the rest of his life. It's a poor trade off.

With regards managers reffing games, it's a lot less common than it was twenty years ago but it does happen occasionally. I find the best solution is for each side to ref one half.

Now the Kickstarter 1 and 2 requirement is a tricky one. The bottom line is, half the coaches out there at underage level haven't done it. The clubs aren't going to risk losing entire teams over it. They need the volunteers. That's the reality of the situation.