Dublin West General Election - SEE MOD NOTE POST 19.

ciaran76

ThisRegard wrote: »

I like how since the rebranding the Carlton has not only changed name, it has also moved to Blanchardstown from Tyrrelstown.

Will be easier to get to if it's in Blanch!
Lol

smallerthanyou

Not mad on that format. Too much audience stories, not enough candidates talking. No winners but Mcguinness and tj and o gorman did themselves no harm. Ruth and donnelly failed to impress. But noone and Jack were poor. To be fair to noone she handled it well enough but was hung out as only rep of outgoing parties.

Canadel

ThisRegard wrote: »

Ruth with more lies, only a small select few of Tesco employees have been asked to change their contracts.

And why isn't she allowed to sit with the rest of them?

She's at the table for sitting members of Government. The other two didn't show up remember.

Vincent crushed Chambers' poor heart there and possibly his political campaign, at least amongst a lot of undecided voters. Makes it even more ludicrous when posters here say that Joan and Leo didn't turn up because of "hecklers, Sinners & Anti-water chargers" in the audience. They didn't show because they know Vincent would have been equally as vociferous towards them. He's twice the intellectual they are on their best day.

You can argue all day about how it was politically shrewd of them not to appear there tonight, but surely somewhere there is still the idea of a sense of duty in Irish politics, a duty to appear before those constituents you serve as an elected representative, and the entire country, on national television in a prime time debate with your fellow candidates. They failed in this duty tonight. And I hope it's remembered by people. I'm a Labour supporter, not that it matters what my allegiance is.

Irish Raven

My old constituency.....just watched debate....scraping the end of the barrel....most were bluffing. ...except donnelly; he actually doesn't have a clue what's going on!!

Kiwi_knock

The show was a bit of a mess, far too much general statements from the audience that had no relevance. It was one big long soapbox session. Impressed with TJ Clare and O'Gorman. Thought McGuinness coped well and Coppinger came across well in parts. Donnelly was far too cautious, he knows he has a seat so was nervous of saying anything to jeopardise it. Chambers mixed the good with the bad, but the bad moments were quite bad. It was a tough ask for Noone but she certainly didn't help herself at times, she looked furious that she was being hung out to dry by Leo.

Zaph

Canadel wrote: »

She's at the table for sitting members of Government. The other two didn't show up remember.

Vincent crushed Chambers' poor heart there and possibly his political campaign, at least amongst a lot of undecided voters. Makes it even more ludicrous when posters here say that Joan and Leo didn't turn up because of "hecklers, Sinners & Anti-water chargers" in the audience. They didn't show because they know Vincent would have been equally as vociferous towards them. He's twice the intellectual they are on their best day.

You can argue all day about how it was politically shrewd of them not to appear there tonight, but surely somewhere there is still the idea of a sense of duty in Irish politics, a duty to appear before those constituents you serve as an elected representative, and the entire country, on national television in a prime time debate with your fellow candidates. They failed in this duty tonight. And I hope it's remembered by people. I'm a Labour supporter, not that it matters what my allegiance is.

I can see where you're coming from, but it's not like either of them are short of airtime, and they would most likely have been the subject of a lot of abuse from the audience as well as whatever Vincent had to throw at them. This would have detracted from the amount of time the smaller candidates would have had to make their points, and for most this would be their one and only big chance. So I think from a local perspective it's good that neither of them were there as it gives people in the constituency a better chance to see what the others are all about.

Kiwi_knock

'Jack Chambers' is trending on Twitter, all related to his views on not holding a referendum. So while not many people might have watched the show, it will get around that he is pro-life and opposed to holding a referendum.

Zaph

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

'Jack Chambers' is trending on Twitter, all related to his views on not holding a referendum. So while not many people might have watched the show, it will get around that he is pro-life and opposed to holding a referendum.

I still don't think it's going to hurt his vote that much. I wouldn't expect too many of his supporters are regulars on Twitter.

smallerthanyou

Did it changes anyone's preferences? Didn't for me.

Canadel

Zaph wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from, but it's not like either of them are short of airtime, and they would most likely have been the subject of a lot of abuse from the audience as well as whatever Vincent had to throw at them. This would have detracted from the amount of time the smaller candidates would have had to make their points, and for most this would be their one and only big chance. So I think from a local perspective it's good that neither of them were there as it gives people in the constituency a better chance to see what the others are all about.

Fair point. But the benefit of the smaller candidates gaining more coverage does not outweigh the loss of Leo and Joan from proceedings imo. Nor the benefit to them of not turning up. The people's debate takes place in a particular constituency but I've always viewed it as a people's debate for the people of the country given they are aired on prime time national television. They're candidates in a constituency but they're also The Tainiste and Minister for Health respectively. They didn't just show disrespect to their constituents and fellow candidates in west Dublin tonight, they showed it to the people of the country also. As I said, very disappointing. And I'm sure we can expect more of the same in Mayo next week.

Grudaire

Grudaire wrote:

Also running are: Catherine Noone for Fine Gael to try to get a second seat (not confirmed) Roderic O'Gorman for the greens who hopes to build on a good bye election result

I now know who to give my second and third preferences to now :-)

These debates are carcrash, you can only lose face from blunders, but you're unlikely to stand out.

Rosser

That was a shambles, Browne is like Fr. Jack in his own spin off show. Zero editorial balance, zero control and frankly the time to bring the curtain down on him must be soon, RTÈ had the foresight to drop him only for TV3 to put him on tv?!?

Leo was obviously preparing for his show down with Michael McGrath over on RTE1. He's a national politician, Minister and probable future leader so for his party that was the best use plus don't we want our politicians dealing with national matters? By the way he took care of McGrath even though it was Health Minister vs FF Finance spokesman on a finance debate.

Catherine Noone was lynched but did well I think all things considered, took a lot of guts to go on there so credit due.

Chambers to a certain extent got the same treatment and was found badly wanting. If he's the future of FF they're in deep trouble, he's being pushed by his party and he's just not ready (won't say able because he's a clever guy).

Joan Burton was right not to go on, she'd have been abused and Browne would have stirred it up all night long.

Roderic O'Gorman was good and works hard in the constituency but the rest were spoofers, Donnelly citing cancer statistic was like a trip in a taxi with an opinionated driver.

All in all I wish I'd watched 'Don't tell the bride' over on RTÈ 2.

Rosser

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I don't think so either, if you want a pro-life candidate you can vote for Varadkar

Not the case, he's in favour of a partial repeal of the 8th particularly for fatal fetal & rape / incest but not abortion on demand.

Canadel

Rosser wrote: »

That was a shambles, Browne is like Fr. Jack in his own spin off show. Zero editorial balance, zero control and frankly the time to bring the curtain down on him must be soon, RTÈ had the foresight to drop him only for TV3 to put him on tv?!?

Leo was obviously preparing for his show down with Michael McGrath over on RTE1. He's a national politician, Minister and probable future leader so for his party that was the best use plus don't we want our politicians dealing with national matters? By the way he took care of McGrath even though it was Health Minister vs FF Finance spokesman on a finance debate.

Vincent would eat every single political presenter RTE have for breakfast. Same goes for any of the candidates.

Of course we want our politicians dealing with national matters. But both Leo and Joan would have known about this national debate well in advance of tonight and could have been well prepared to discuss national matters. It's a prime time national debate. I was watching it in Mayo. And the majority of the matters discussed tonight were national matters. They have no excuse. They're absence tonight was nothing to do with dealing with national matters. It was a political ploy. And it was pathetic imo.

ThisRegard

Vincent is no great shakes, as I said previously, and as evident by various social media outlets including boards, he's a caricature of the outraged man with no form or structure to any of his 'debates', they're generally just sounding boards for various interests and a form of entertainment.

A simple contrast and comparison with the professionalism show by Clare Byrne on RTE the other night will shown you how poor he has become.

What did we learn about any candidate that we didn't already know, apart from Chambers not wanting a referendum?

Rosser

Canadel wrote: »

Vincent would eat every single political presenter RTE have for breakfast. Same goes for any of the candidates.

Of course we want our politicians dealing with national matters. But both Leo and Joan would have known about this national debate well in advance of tonight and could have been well prepared to discuss national matters. It's a prime time national debate. I was watching it in Mayo. And the majority of the matters discussed tonight were national matters. They have no excuse. They're absence tonight was nothing to do with dealing with national matters. It was a political ploy. And it was pathetic imo.

Vincent does angry at his own reflection, he doesn't do reasoned analysis, impartiality or basic courtesy. He should have been sedated after his performance on George Hook last Wednesday.

Seán O'Rourke for one did an excellent interview with Gerry Adams this morning without the pantomime.

Primetime in name, nature and viewership was over on RTÈ where Leo was, he's never been known to avoid debate and put Browne back in his box many times before.

I don't think tonight's bear pit did anything for anyone.

votecounts

January wrote: »

Who was the other pro life candidate I missed it in my anger at jack

I'd say it was the FG Candidate Noone

athtrasna

Where was tennis barbie O'Brien?

chucknorris

No matter if you're pro life or pro choice, you cannot be anti-democracy.

PS: Jack's legal background worked wonders for him. :cool:

angryIreGamer

Canadel wrote: »

Didn't see it but apparently Chambers just announced he is pro life and does not favour a referendum on the 8th.

well at least now he has picked a stance, instead of the bumbling non committal answer he gave at our door.

chucknorris

angryIreGamer wrote: »

well at least now he has picked a stance, instead of the bumbling non committal answer he gave at our door.

He has made a calculated decision.

His supporters told him last night that he was the 'Star of the show'.

He calculation is that he will now pull the entire conservative vote from Leo Varadkar in his patch.

Straight question - will he?

angryIreGamer

chucknorris wrote: »

He has made a calculated decision.

His supporters told him last night that he was the 'Star of the show'.

He calculation is that he will now pull the entire conservative vote from Leo Varadkar in his patch.

Straight question - will he?

in my house, where were an odd mismatch couple, he will have lost the only chance at a vote he had.

Also in a few of the rest of my familys houses, he will have lost their usually conservative vote.

chucknorris

angryIreGamer wrote: »

in my house, where were an odd mismatch couple, he will have lost the only chance at a vote he had.

Also in a few of the rest of my familys houses, he will have lost their usually conservative vote.

I think his constitutional point on education was very damaging to him. If you watched a bit of VB and wen to bed after a half hour, that one bit would have been eye opening.

I thought Catherine Noone did well considering.

I might get abused by feminists if there are any on here for saying this (I don't know), but she's a good looking woman.

Past30Now

Rosser wrote: »

That was a shambles, Browne is like Fr. Jack in his own spin off show. Zero editorial balance, zero control and frankly the time to bring the curtain down on him must be soon, RTÈ had the foresight to drop him only for TV3 to put him on tv?!?

Leo was obviously preparing for his show down with Michael McGrath over on RTE1. He's a national politician, Minister and probable future leader so for his party that was the best use plus don't we want our politicians dealing with national matters? By the way he took care of McGrath even though it was Health Minister vs FF Finance spokesman on a finance debate.

Catherine Noone was lynched but did well I think all things considered, took a lot of guts to go on there so credit due.

Chambers to a certain extent got the same treatment and was found badly wanting. If he's the future of FF they're in deep trouble, he's being pushed by his party and he's just not ready (won't say able because he's a clever guy).

Joan Burton was right not to go on, she'd have been abused and Browne would have stirred it up all night long.

Roderic O'Gorman was good and works hard in the constituency but the rest were spoofers, Donnelly citing cancer statistic was like a trip in a taxi with an opinionated driver.

All in all I wish I'd watched 'Don't tell the bride' over on RTÈ 2.

Bar the line about Don't tell the bride (I watched that once - dear god!), and including David McGuinness amongst the spoofers, this post reflects my thoughts on last nights debate. It was an abysmal performance by VB. There was no control, production was a shambles, VB despite his clear intellect, is becoming a bit of a clown. Joan and Leo were right to give it a miss. I've seen both of them handle VB relatively well from the comfort of a closed studio, but they would have been slaughtered on live TV if they'd turned up.

I thought Catherine Noone handled herself well, despite being the dartboard for the evening. The number of AAA members in the audience and asking questions was surprising. They now have a very vocal active group around the constituency. They offer nothing, but they are active.

Jack Chambers concerns me deeply. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Every opinion, every action, every breath seems designed purely to win one more vote. He's clearly a bright guy, but he's out of his depth at this level. His views on the 8th amendment smack of something he was told to say, whether he believes them or not. His faux anger at Joan and Leo not turning up wouldn't have survived scrutiny in a school debate. But VB lives for faux anger, so he survived.

David McG got in a nice little kick at Ruth C about her non attendance at a function earlier that day, but in terms of performance on the stage, there was very little to choose from between him, TJ Clare, and Roderic O'Gorman.

Donnelly did ok. I like to hear a politician saying I don't know. This idea that all these local politicians should have well thought out rounded positions on every topic imaginable is bs of the highest order. His job last night was to survive. Of the politicians in attendance last night, he's in pole position, and they have to try to catch up with him.

From a personal viewpoint, the only difference last night made was that I'd consider giving Noone a preference vote. It's highly unlikely to make a difference.

Past30Now

chucknorris wrote: »

He has made a calculated decision.

His supporters told him last night that he was the 'Star of the show'.

He calculation is that he will now pull the entire conservative vote from Leo Varadkar in his patch.

Straight question - will he?

He may well pick up a lot of votes for that position. A close relation was recently outlining their preference for him, how they were going to give Catherine Noone a second preference, and how Leo wouldn't get a preference due to his announcement last year on Miriam! Jacks stance last night will be manna for this type of older voter.

chucknorris

Past30Now wrote: »

Bar the line about Don't tell the bride (I watched that once - dear god!), and including David McGuinness amongst the spoofers, this post reflects my thoughts on last nights debate. It was an abysmal performance by VB. There was no control, production was a shambles, VB despite his clear intellect, is becoming a bit of a clown. Joan and Leo were right to give it a miss. I've seen both of them handle VB relatively well from the comfort of a closed studio, but they would have been slaughtered on live TV if they'd turned up.

I thought Catherine Noone handled herself well, despite being the dartboard for the evening. The number of AAA members in the audience and asking questions was surprising. They now have a very vocal active group around the constituency. They offer nothing, but they are active.

Jack Chambers concerns me deeply. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Every opinion, every action, every breath seems designed purely to win one more vote. He's clearly a bright guy, but he's out of his depth at this level. His views on the 8th amendment smack of something he was told to say, whether he believes them or not. His faux anger at Joan and Leo not turning up wouldn't have survived scrutiny in a school debate. But VB lives for faux anger, so he survived.

David McG got in a nice little kick at Ruth C about her non attendance at a function earlier that day, but in terms of performance on the stage, there was very little to choose from between him, TJ Clare, and Roderic O'Gorman.

Donnelly did ok. I like to hear a politician saying I don't know. This idea that all these local politicians should have well thought out rounded positions on every topic imaginable is bs of the highest order. His job last night was to survive. Of the politicians in attendance last night, he's in pole position, and they have to try to catch up with him.

From a personal viewpoint, the only difference last night made was that I'd consider giving Noone a preference vote. It's highly unlikely to make a difference.

- Catherine Noone did do well but no one knows who she is and most will not remember her name come election day.

- David, Rodric and TJ only had to get through without a cock-up. They did that and the Independent vote % should come through on that alone.

- Ruth did her outrage on mobility and elderly etc but didn't turn up to the event put on by the speaker in the wheelchair. Looked bad and as she admitted at the end of the show and as i said here yesterday based no a private poll, she is in trouble.

- Paul only had to play it safe as he is well ahead, as i said in the poll and he did that. You're correct. He is eating Coppinger alive in terms of vote commitments.


-

chucknorris

Past30Now wrote: »

He may well pick up a lot of votes for that position. A close relation was recently outlining their preference for him, how they were going to give Catherine Noone a second preference, and how Leo wouldn't get a preference due to his announcement last year on Miriam! Jacks stance last night will be manna for this type of older voter.

Very true but many so called old foggies have changed their views and are pro democracy and there is a lot more young people in this constituency.

Amazing how a minority try to hold a majority to ransom.

Essentially what Jack said was - 'My view is more important and no one will have a say on anything that will conflict with my view'

Past30Now

chucknorris wrote: »

Essentially what Jack said was - 'My view is more important and no one will have a say on anything that will conflict with my view'

That should bury him, but it won't.

Larsso30

Felt Noone deserves enormous credit for showing up, getting an awful time and not hiding. Still wouldnt get my vote but I know who she is now!

Too much being made about Leo, he was on RTE as another poster already discussed. Though glad Joan wasnt there, we had enough people embarrass this constituency with some of their questions, didnt need a candidate doing likewise.

Chambers god bless him is a child and not a very good candidate, give him credit for having balls to publically speak but can also see why hes not done so already!

McGuinness done well, for the life of me I cannot see why FF put chambers ahead of him (bar obvious nepotism).

Coppinger despite some well placed plants in the crowd was less impressive. Her comment at the end about if she loses her seat not being a reflection of the constituency was idiotic as thats exactly what an election reflects!

Roderic seems a decent skin and works hard in our community and to his credit always impresses when he speaks, but **** sake lad close your legs!

TJ spoke well too. Donnelly as another poster said had a lot to lose, however he did nothing to convince me he deserves my vote last night, played it too safe and if i was a voter who was undecided or he needed a vote, he wouldnt of done anything to get it. Also, his repsonse to Ted Leddy was laughable!

Vincent Brown is a shambles of a presenter, attacking the candidates for me should not be his role he is there to chair a debate instead he grandstanded and tried to steal the show himself. Id almost say we heard more from Brown than the candidates last night

Also, screening for the questions from the crowd should of been done. some of it was god awful.

Best speaker of the night was Ted Leddy to be honest, impressive young man who spoke brilliantly, unlike the rest of the FG supporters there

Larsso30

smallerthanyou wrote: »

Paul donnelly confusing the central bank policy with the government policy.

Dont think he confused it at all, clever ploy that he got away with, although he shouldnt have.

Many will believe that hook line and sinker.