Dublin West General Election - SEE MOD NOTE POST 19.

conor-mr2

Ive also been told that leo was asking people on navan road to vote burton #2.
Labour were so effective at being the lackies in this govt term that i sure fg would just love to have them bending over again as "partners" next time around.

Peter Anthony

I don't think theres anything scary about being Pro Life. At least shes honest and is sticking to her principles, which is more than can be said for certain Politicians/Parties who won't come out with their true feelings for fear of losing votes. AFAIK Renua have a free vote on the matter anyway and not all the candidates are Pro Life. Have no knowledge of the local candidate in Dublin West though, judging by polls they have no chance

Renua had some good ideas, the Flat Tax Rate is interesting and something different. But they didn't get the standard of candidate needed.

Zaph

Peter Anthony wrote: »

Renua had some good ideas, the Flat Tax Rate is interesting and something different.

Different? Yes. Fair? Not in a million years. The Irish Times had a look at how pay packets would be affected if all the parties actually enacted their election promises. I'd love to know who'd be paying for this:

But Renua’s flat tax of 23 per cent appears to considerably benefit higher earners. On an income of € 120,000 for example, it is promising € 25,709 more than the Anti Austerity Alliance & People Before Profit.

Peter Anthony

Zaph wrote: »

Different? Yes. Fair? Not in a million years. The Irish Times had a look at how pay packets would be affected if all the parties actually enacted their election promises. I'd love to know who'd be paying for this:

But it depends how you look at that; AAA/PBP would love nothing more than to tax high earners out of existence, Renuas is probably more realistic and less damaging. I mean if we taxed people like AAA wanted they would all upsticks and move abroad, taking their jobs and money with them. High earners are already taxed very high here vs other countries.

I've seen certain high earners say on Boards even that they left the country due to the high taxes we currently have.

Grudaire

Peter Anthony wrote:

I've seen certain high earners say on Boards even that they left the country due to the high taxes we currently have.

I would benefit from Renuas proposals, but I wouldn't like to live in an Ireland that had such an unfair tax regime..

Zaph

Peter Anthony wrote: »

But it depends how you look at that; AAA/PBP would love nothing more than to tax high earners out of existence, Renuas is probably more realistic and less damaging. I mean if we taxed people like AAA wanted they would all upsticks and move abroad, taking their jobs and money with them. High earners are already taxed very high here vs other countries.

I've seen certain high earners say on Boards even that they left the country due to the high taxes we currently have.

High earners are not taxed very highly compared to other countries. The top rate in Austria and Belgium is 50%, it's 52% in the Netherlands, 55.5% in Denmark, 56% in Finland and Sweden. When you factor in PRSI and USC our rate is broadly similar. The problem here is that people go onto the top rate far too early. It's ridiculous that just under €34k will put someone on the top rate of tax as it does here.

I don't agree with the AAA/PBP approach either, they'd destroy the country in no time if they were let run it because their only solution for everything is tax the rich or big companies. But as you say, the rich will all bugger off somewhere that the weather is better and the tax isn't as high, and the companies will suddenly remember that our highly educated young workforce isn't really why they came here in the first place. There needs to be a middle ground, perhaps adding a third tax band between the current two rates and greatly increasing the threshold at which people hit the higher rate, with an increase in that rate to offset some of the cost of the middle rate.

conor-mr2

What Id say about them is at least I have an understanding as to what they want to do.
I'm not any clearer on who to vote for come tomorrow.
It's been such a dull election campaign altogether.

Im against Coppinger largely due to her occupying a house literally a stones throw away from where I live surrounded by cronies who were there "for the buzz".

Either way its pretty obvious we'll be having a FG majority. Who comes along for the ride is anyone's guess.

ThisRegard

Peter Anthony wrote: »

Coppinger is nuts.

She had a go at me during the last set of local elections, it was both bizarre and funny at the same time. There's no way she could be trusted to make any sort of decision at council level, never mind something that could affect the state.

hardCopy

I have chosen my #1 and #2 at this stage, which has changed since the election began.

Not sure where my preferences will go after that.

ArmaniJeanss

Peter Anthony wrote: »

I don't think theres anything scary about being Pro Life. At least shes honest and is sticking to her principles, which is more than can be said for certain Politicians/Parties who won't come out with their true feelings for fear of losing votes. AFAIK Renua have a free vote on the matter anyway and not all the candidates are Pro Life.

The 'we have a free vote/vote with your conscience' thing is a nonsense really. Renua as a junior partner in government with Creighton/Timmins in Cabinet would lessen the chances of an 8thAmendment repeal referendum or legislation being brought before the people/Dail in the first place - effectively they would have a blocker in place long before it gets to a conscience vote in the Dail.

AlanG

athtrasna wrote: »

Has anyone actually had any Renua canvassers?

JO O'Brian was outside the schools in Balanchardstown a few weeks ago. Seems like a nice and well intentioned person.

AlanG

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The 'we have a free vote/vote with your conscience' thing is a nonsense really. Renua as a junior partner in government with Creighton/Timmins in Cabinet would lessen the chances of an 8thAmendment repeal referendum or legislation being brought before the people/Dail in the first place - effectively they would have a blocker in place long before it gets to a conscience vote in the Dail.

In fairness to Renua they are the only party I have seen where the candidates have openly stated their position on the 8th. I believe most of them were in favour of repealing it and they have been promised a free vote. This is actually more than most other parties have been offering.

Also a lot of politicians who are in favour of repealing the 8th have not said what, if anything, they will replace it with. In the absence of that information a promise to repeal the 8th is empty.

Grudaire

I think some of the main parties are staying away from a clear position, but more than Renua have a clear stance.

eg Green position: https://greenparty.ie/policies/green-party-reproductive-rights-policy/

KGLady

conor-mr2 wrote: »

Ive also been told that leo was asking people on navan road to vote burton #2.

I get emails from Leo since I made contact with him some time ago, and the one today includes the following;

Dublin West is a very competitive constituency and I am not taking anything for granted just as I will never take your support for granted.

No. 1 votes make all the difference in elections and that's why I am asking for your No. 1 vote on Friday. In order to maximise support for the Government, I am asking that you give your No. 2 vote to my party colleague Catherine Noone and your No 3. to Joan Burton

Thank you,

Despite having voted for him everytime he's been on a ballot in the past, this time I won't as I'm pretty disgusted with the arrogance, condescension and outright lies from FG. But its pretty pathetic to see Burton needing to be thrown a bone from another party in terms of #3 leftovers.

I never felt we particularly benefited from having a Táinaiste from the constituency, and clearly the feeling is that she hasn't acquitted herself well given the collapse in Labour support. I do wonder though, how things will change after Fridays vote and will DubWest be less of an interesting, big hitter in terms of constituencies. Varadkar, Higgins, Burton & Lenihan were all large figures in politics and while it seems likely now Varadkar will continue onwards I would guess that the other candidates running are really less likely to have as much of an impact in the long run.

I suppose thats a whole other topic really! But are we going to see the end of the days of DuBWest being one to watch?

conor-mr2

Thanks for that clarification KGLady. So #3 to Joan!

Unreal.

ThisRegard

KGLady wrote: »

But its pretty pathetic to see Burton needing to be thrown a bone from another party in terms of #3 leftovers.

Just tactical voting I suppose.

Grudaire

KGLady wrote: »

I suppose thats a whole other topic really! But are we going to see the end of the days of DuBWest being one to watch?

Very interesting point, and I think you're right that the constituency will have less impact going forward.

All is not lost however;

• O'Gorman is Chairperson in the Green Party, and a potential future leader.
• Chambers is being trained and portrayed as Lenihan 3.0, expect to see him getting party airtime if he is elected
• Coppinger is central in the Socialist movement and won't be off the airwaves whether or not she is elected

Time will tell..

AlanG

conor-mr2 wrote: »

Thanks for that clarification KGLady. So #3 to Joan!

Unreal.

Transferring to Labour has been the FG official line all along, it is just unusual for them to put it on a flyer or mail.

KGLady

Grudaire wrote: »

• O'Gorman is Chairperson in the Green Party, and a potential future leader.
• Chambers is being trained and portrayed as Lenihan 3.0, expect to see him getting party airtime if he is elected
• Coppinger is central in the Socialist movement and won't be off the airwaves whether or not she is elected

Time will tell..

O'Gorman is really very solid, in other circumstances he might have really risen to the fore, but I think there's still a lot of folk that felt burned by Greens in Govt and its unfortunate really that its just not been long enough for them to have gotten over it yet. He'll be getting a high preference from me all the same

In time Chambers might live up to the grooming process in FF but he has a long way to go before he'll have that kind of reach and impact, if ever.

Coppinger, well my Grandmother taught me if you've nothing nice to say...

Time will tell and it will be interesting for sure.

conor-mr2

AlanG wrote: »

Transferring to Labour has been the FG official line all along, it is just unusual for them to put it on a flyer or mail.

Yea but as you say its actually putting the proverbial pen to paper that amazes me with that.

Zaph

I'm sure I've seen FG (and presumably Labour the other way round) do that before in previous elections.

ThisRegard

I got that flyer today from that hypocrite Coppinger saying it's down to either her or Burton for the last seat.

hardCopy

conor-mr2 wrote: »

Yea but as you say its actually putting the proverbial pen to paper that amazes me with that.

What's really amazing is that Leo wants people to put Joan ahead of Catherine Noone.

athtrasna

hardCopy wrote: »

What's really amazing is that Leo wants people to put Joan ahead of Catherine Noone.

Realistically Noone has no chance but Joan has some chance

Grudaire

Seems to me that if half the people who "used to vote Green" actually did give a first (or meaningful) preference to the Greens they would have been a major force!

It's almost like the number of people who didn't vote FF in 2011 - someone's not telling the truth! :pac:

KGLady

I am asking that you give your No. 2 vote to my party colleague Catherine Noone and your No 3. to Joan Burton

It would have been pretty disgraceful if, having been parachuted in to stand and left to face a horrendous night on VinB, Noone was thrown under the bus entirely and rejected as a no2 in favour of another party, but that doesn't seem to be the case based upon the email I received this morning.

But still though, we are a long way from Burton comfortably securing her seat in the last election (wasn't she the first count and poll topper then?), and Labour getting a second seat for Nulty in the by-election later that year (for his 6wk stint before he lost the party whip!) compared to where we are now that other party candidates are openly asking for transfers further down the list for her. Its night and day in the space of a few years, and very telling.

Kiwi_knock

hardCopy wrote: »

What's really amazing is that Leo wants people to put Joan ahead of Catherine Noone.

athtrasna wrote: »

Realistically Noone has no chance but Joan has some chance

Also it is not like we are going to see Noone run again in this constituency, so it is not damaging her in the future.

hardCopy

What's Dermot Casey's story? I can't find any official website or even a twitter account belonging to him.

chucknorris

Strange rumblings going on in Dublin west. Cannot quite explain it but something big.

January

chucknorris wrote: »

Strange rumblings going on in Dublin west. Cannot quite explain it but something big.

Ah give it a go.

What do we reckon of Paul Donnelly's crowd accusing Coppinger's crowd of pulling down his posters?