Dublin West General Election - SEE MOD NOTE POST 19.

ThisRegard

I'm not sure what was your point was then, you could equally have said that many who are successful in their careers have got there with little or no support from their parents.

AGC

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'm not sure what was your point was then, you could equally have said that many who are successful in their careers have got there with little or no support from their parents.

No, I would say more get support than not.

chucknorris

You would have to wonder if Jack's position on not having a referendum on repeal the 8th only gives him short term advantage?

Long term as people my age get older, he may be cutting off his nose with the stance he took. It may catch up with him.

I'm pro life but I'm also pro-democratic. After 33 years people must be allowed to have their say on the issue.

Zaph

chucknorris wrote: »

I'm pro life but I'm also pro-democratic. After 33 years people must be allowed to have their say on the issue.

I agree. I'm 48 and it's not an issue that I've ever voted on because I was too young the last time. That's the best part of two whole generations who have never had their say on it, which isn't right.

Canadel

ThisRegard wrote: »

I don't agree. Many people who are successful in their careers, I'm not necessarily talking about CEOs of Fortune 500 countries, haven't all had financial or creative support from their parents.

Sure, you'll find many that have, but it's not a prerequisite in any way, an advantage at most.

Some of the richest and most successful people in the world never finished college. But the majority of the relatively richest and most successful people in the world finished college and many would also have done further study.

The majority of successful people receive both financial and academic support from their parents as kids. I would post a study but there's no need as all of the studies would give the same conclusion.

chucknorris

Zaph wrote: »

I agree. I'm 48 and it's not an issue that I've ever voted on because I was too young the last time. That's the best part of two whole generations who have never had their say on it, which isn't right.

I'd be open to allowing abortion for specific reasons such as rape, ffa and incest.

I just don't agree with abortion on demand, but, if the majority of people want it, then that's the way it has to go. I've no issues with what the majority want.

Long term Jack will need to deal with that as the old fogies won't be around for ever, and church goers are less and less but I'd believe many young people voted for Jack without knowing anything about him. That's been rectified in the last two days.

ThisRegard

Canadel wrote: »

The majority of successful people receive both financial and academic support from their parents as kids. I would post a study but there's no need as all of the studies would give the same conclusion.

Kids, we're talking about adults here, not kids. If we restrict the sample to within Ireland, which is where we're talking about considering the subject is an Irish guy, there has been little need for any major form of financial support from parents to progress through third level education and have a successful career, it's what makes our third level education system pretty fair. Maybe less so these days with the increase in 'registration' fees but we're a world apart from the UK and American for example.

Anyway, we're verging way off topic.

Canadel

ThisRegard wrote: »

Kids, we're talking about adults here, not kids. If we restrict the sample to within Ireland, which is where we're talking about considering the subject is an Irish guy, there has been little need for any major form of financial support from parents to progress through third level education and have a successful career, it's what makes our third level education system pretty fair. Maybe less so these days with the increase in 'registration' fees but we're a world apart from the UK and American for example.

Anyway, we're verging way off topic.

The difference between Ireland and the US is the access to higher education. Ireland has high income inequality too but third level education is accessible. The constant, is the increased value parents with higher income place on their kids education and careers, as is the case with Jack Chambers and his frequently mentioned family. So while access to higher education is better in Ireland than the US, the resulting number of those most successful both academically and financially will come from mostly higher income families where they receive both financial and academic support as kids. We're verging off topic because you're simply wrong.

Zaph

chucknorris wrote: »

I'd be open to allowing abortion for specific reasons such as rape, ffa and incest.

I just don't agree with abortion on demand, but, if the majority of people want it, then that's the way it has to go. I've no issues with what the majority want.

Long term Jack will need to deal with that as the old fogies won't be around for ever, and church goers are less and less but I'd believe many young people voted for Jack without knowing anything about him. That's been rectified in the last two days.

I was amazed yesterday when I was discussing this with my mother. She's 73 and would be quite religious, but she said she voted in favour in 1983 because even though it's not something she'd ever have considered herself she recognised the reality of women going to the UK and then coming home with no proper support services in place. I was actually very proud of her because she'd be quite conservative about a lot of things (she was against marriage equality for example) but when women's lives are at stake she's prepared to set aside her personal feelings for the greater good.

Dobbit

chucknorris wrote: »

Long term Jack will need to deal with that as the old fogies won't be around for ever, and church goers are less and less but I'd believe many young people voted for Jack without knowing anything about him. That's been rectified in the last two days.

But sure then he can just flip his stance to stay popular. If I'm going to be very cynical about it he saw a niche among a liberal line up in Dublin West and went for it. It appears to have paid off. Cleverly done, as much as I disagree with his anti abortion stance (as Ruth said on Saturday, everyone is pro life )

Gaspode

AlanG wrote: »

Having worked several times as a Poll clerk the most amazing thing is the amount of well educated middle class people in their late 20's and 30's who do not know how to vote. The do not know how the STV works, they mark an X or very often they think you have to stop after number 3.

How did you know who voted??

Grudaire

Canadel wrote:

It's absolutely true. Take a sample size of the most successful people and top earners in their profession anywhere in the world and you fill find the vast majority will have been financially and academically supported by their parents. It just so happens Jack Chambers' parents supported him in achieving a career in politics. And they've done it pretty expertly in terms of what success obviously means to them.

It would worry me greatly if his parents didn't do their best to support him through college and in his political endeavors.

However support is one thing, but I think people have a concern where the financial assistance here is easily in the six figures. Additionally would he have gotten the nomination without the family connections?

Most people want some form of meritocracy, I think you would find it hard to show that his achievements to date justify his position.

He is however now playing in the big league, and hopefully he can exceed expectations.. If not them the electorate can only blame themselves.

A Shaved Duck?

Grudaire wrote: »

It would worry me greatly if his parents didn't do their best to support him through college and in his political endeavors.

However support is one thing, but I think people have a concern where the financial assistance here is easily in the six figures. Additionally would he have gotten the nomination without the family connections?

Most people want some form of meritocracy, I think you would find it hard to show that his achievements to date justify his position.

He is however now playing in the big league, and hopefully he can exceed expectations.. If not them the electorate can only blame themselves.

Exactly this comparing a high profile election campaign to parents helping their children through college ... ???

The guy is part of a FF dynasty and as such represents another generation of the same policies and attitudes of the past, Zero original thought of any kind and local politics were used to get this guy onto the national stage iand imo chambers getting in represents everything that is wrong with the irish electoral system.

Kiwi_knock

The letter has surfaced on twitter. Can find it under #dubw . It was posted by an account that was only set up today, so make of that what you will.

oblivious

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

The letter has surfaced on twitter. Can find it under #dubw . It was posted by an account that was only set up today, so make of that what you will.

I hope who ever took the pictures of the letters, didn't have their location switched on. As it will be part of the pictures meta data.

ThisRegard

Only one tweet showing for me from today under the DubW hashtag.

January

ThisRegard wrote: »

Only one tweet showing for me from today under the DubW hashtag.

It's under an account named Patrick H. Deering.

KGLady

Its really really ****ty that I have no trouble at all believing much of the unsavoury allegations in the letter. Reads like same old FF in many ways and for all the back and forth here about the letter, Chuck was right, the detail content in it is quite likely to have come from someone inside their own camp.

I guess its little things to keep an awareness of in the future, esp the green space and car park development etc and what happens to his vacated seat on the CoCo.

athtrasna

And now another new twitter account throwing this back at the McGuinness camp.

I have no problem believing the contents of the letter, I hope the Gardai and SIPO don't either.

oblivious

athtrasna wrote: »

And now another new twitter account throwing this back at the McGuinness camp.

I have no problem believing the contents of the letter, I hope the Gardai and SIPO don't either.

The name and address are on it, surly it can't be that hard to confirm

January

oblivious wrote: »

The name and address are on it, surly it can't be that hard to confirm

The signature on the letter has been claimed as forged.

eire1

Kiwi_knock

Is anyone watching Claire Byrne, McGuinness was talking but only heard the end, does anyone know what he was talking about.

Rosser

Canadel wrote: »

That's neither fair to him, nor the point. .

No that is the point, he did not create a career for himself he leveraged extraordinary advantage (financially and within FF) that was not available to others. To liken him to some college kid having their bedsit paid for by their parents is disingenuous.

It's a well worn path on this forum about how he got where he got and who was shafted to get him there.

However my opinion is formed on the four times he has canvassed my house with his Father - he's not up to it, yes in time he might but he's in the big league now.

Rosser

chucknorris wrote: »

Edward McManus joined them from FF a few years ago and he is a Castleknock based person. He was Brian Lenihan's director of elections. He may be that person although the age profile is similar to PD.

An Accountant & Barrister too, he's a member of the Castleknock parish council and ran for council in Castleknock ward at the last locals.

Presumably part of the FF shafting that took out David McGuinness and elevated the boy Chambers. He wouldn't be what you'd call charismatic.

Now how he's got himself involved with the Shinners.....frying pan to fire stuff!

ThisRegard

Paul Donnelly and AAA and their supporters taking pot shots at each other all day about who said what. I've never seen such childish crap from people looking to be involved in running a country. Actually, scratch that, neither want to be in a position in which they have to make decisions, probably just as well.

The Chamber's thing is getting legs too. And here's me thinking the excitement would be over come Saturday night.

rockatansky

ThisRegard wrote: »

Paul Donnelly and AAA and their supporters taking pot shots at each other all day about who said what. I've never seen such childish crap from people looking to be involved in running a country.

That sort of behaviour isnt exclusive to Sinn Fein and AAA. It goes on in every constituency with every party, including ones who are in government.

I'll admit Donnelly is doing himself no favours though. There's definitely a seat here for them if they put someone in on the same level as Eoin o'Broin in Dublin South West.

chucknorris

Rosser wrote: »

An Accountant & Barrister too, he's a member of the Castleknock parish council and ran for council in Castleknock ward at the last locals.

Presumably part of the FF shafting that took out David McGuinness and elevated the boy Chambers. He wouldn't be what you'd call charismatic.

Now how he's got himself involved with the Shinners.....frying pan to fire stuff!

Edward was not part of the shafting in fairness to the man and he's a decent man. He left about 6 months before February 2015s shafting and then we knew the game was up as Edward took many people with him that would have almost certainly voted for David.

Edward could have and should have been pulled across the line had the Chambers crew used vote management. All Edward needed was 200 or 300 votes from Chambers to get three across the line but the goal for Chambers was to get himself topping the poll and that's politics and that's the way it goes.

During the LEA of 2014, there was of course also a presidential election and the 2014 by-election. Jack Chambers election campaign involved more posters and billboards than any of the by-election candidates by quite some distance.

I think in the end, Jack got as many votes from the LEA of Castleknock as David got from the same area in the by-election on the same day. 2600 on average and that was taking in to account that more people could vote in the LEA than could in a by-election.

Same outcome on Saturday gone. Jack got the 17% in the GE that David got in the by-election, which was 17%, but my understanding is that jacks vote came in 1000 or so less (Of course bigger guns running).

Just on the letter. We have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. NOTHING.
I personally know only some of the items on that letter - I genuinely did not know many of them.
If the folks in FF went to the gardai, That's the right decision and that's the right thing to do if the details on the letter are incorrect.

Maybe Jack's supporters on here can PM me the Garda they are dealing with? I'll be happy to make a statement but anyone who knows the law and with Jack having a legal background will know - this is a civil matter.

I was part of the FF organisation for about a year or so. I know a lot of people who were and who left. They are decent people and we have all spoken about this letter. We all agreed that the man in question who's signature is on the letter, never, ever wrote a letter within the organisation so how anyone would have his signature to forge it is a complete mystery.

From a personal opinion, I know some of the points to be true, but i don't know about others because I was never aware of them so I cannot know if they are true or false.

Larbre34

That letter is extraordinary. Why would ordinary folk want to involve themselves in local political groups if this is the nonsense that goes on - i refer to both the writing of the letter as well as the allegations within it.

Where is Sean Dorgan in all this? Shouldnt head office be out turning the FF Dublin West records inside out....? Its like House of Cards meets Dallas

As an aside, the more i consider the look in Jack Chambers' eyes, the more i think its reluctance. What other kid his age would want to be caught up in this farce

ThisRegard

rockatansky wrote: »

That sort of behaviour isnt exclusive to Sinn Fein and AAA. It goes on in every constituency with every party, including ones who are in government.

I'll admit Donnelly is doing himself no favours though. There's definitely a seat here for them if they put someone in on the same level as Eoin o'Broin in Dublin South West.

I'm well aware of it, but they're at the forefront of this crap in our constituency and what others are doing elsewhere is irrelevant here.