Qatar 2022 Mayhem

Magico Gonzalez

LaGlisse wrote: »

The 1994 world cup was held in the only country to drop an atomic bomb on a civilian city.They had a bid in for 2022 while at the same time spying on everyone on the planet
The 2006 world cup was held in a country who exterminated 6 million jews.
Whataboutery

No. It's simple. Even for you it should be simple...

• In the USA and other countries names gay football fans can legally enter the country. In 2013 Qatar announced a plan to keep gay foreigners out of the country. You can be openly gay and go to the games

• Female fans can wear what they want, go where they want and travel with who they want in all the other countries.

• In no other country will the stadiums and national infrastructure be built be indentured slaves, whose passports have been with held.

Outside of Qatar, can Russia guarantee they can control right wing gangs of homophobic and xenophobic bullies?

It's about the fans, if you can't guarantee a safe environment for ALL fans then you shouldn't be awarded a world cup.

Simple. You, would think...

LaGlisse

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Apart from when it was in Asia and North America in recent memory you mean?

And what of Africa? Have they not got a richer football history than Qatar?

LOL you highlighted the bit of my post directly after where i addressed this. Good man cherrypicking quotes out of context
my original post they will also say thank God Fifa had a forward thinking president who did not not fear change And who put the world into world cup by bringing it to many new continents instead of cycling it between south American and Europe for eternity.
Whats with the russia hate,did your grandfather get thrown in a gulag or something?

LaGlisse

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You realise this was a discussion specifically about Russia , answering a post that said having it there was convenient to the Russians? The Falklands, the US or anywhere else wasn't involved in the conversation and aren't relevant.

It is relevant, you are casting aspersions on russia as a host because of its size yet the USA hosted a very successful WC in 94 with huge disances between venues

Guy:Incognito

LaGlisse wrote: »

LOL you highlighted the bit of my post directly after where i addressed this. Good man cherrypicking quotes out of context
my original post they will also say thank God Fifa had a forward thinking president who did not not fear change And who put the world into world cup by bringing it to many new continents instead of cycling it between south American and Europe for eternity.
Whats with the russia hate,did your grandfather get thrown in a gulag or something?

And are you Cherry picking replies? Blatter wasn't president till after USA and after Japan/Korea was given the WC.

You've been given plenty of reasons why Russia shouldn't have been awarded the WC.

Cookiemunster

LaGlisse wrote: »

LOL you highlighted the bit of my post directly after where i addressed this. Good man cherrypicking quotes out of context
my original post they will also say thank God Fifa had a forward thinking president who did not not fear change And who put the world into world cup by bringing it to many new continents instead of cycling it between south American and Europe for eternity.
Whats with the russia hate,did your grandfather get thrown in a gulag or something?

As I already pointed out to you, Sepp Blatter became president in 1998. The USA staged the world cup 4 years before that. And Japan/Korea were awarded the 2002 world cup in 1996, 2 years before he became president. So Sepp wasn't that forward looking.

None of the 2022 candidates were from Europe or South America and the only reason Qatar got it is corruption.

Guy:Incognito

LaGlisse wrote: »

It is relevant, you are casting aspersions on russia as a host because of its size yet the USA hosted a very successful WC in 94 with huge disances between venues

Huge distances between the venue is one thing, Huge distances between much of the country and the closest venue is entirely different.

Heres the discussion:

rarnes1 wrote: »

Next two world cups are a mess for fans

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, for fans that don't live near where are to be held.

For the millions of people that live in those countries I would hazard a guess that they are going to be a lot simplier than having them elsewhere!

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Russia is big enough to be a bloody continent. For quite a lot of Russians it would probably be better if it were in one smaller country nearby.

The fans that don't live near where they are to be held are quite a few Russians. Irish fans are closer to the venues that a lot of Russians.

thebaz

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well, for fans that don't live near where are to be held.

For the millions of people that live in those countries I would hazard a guess that they are going to be a lot simplier than having them elsewhere!

Qatar poplulation is 2 million - never heard much about ther rich football tradition - but of that 2 million many are very well wealthy , now that what WC 2022 is all about , Mr. Blatter likes dealing with rich clientele, especially those who may be inclined to the odd sweetener

Hyzepher

If Blatter wants to spread soccer throughout the world and share the hosting with countries outside Europe and S. America, why was Qatar chosen above many other countries that have a larger soccer playing population and would benefit more to having the tournament in the country?

What soccer benefit comes out of having the tournament in Qatar?

LaGlisse

Hyzepher wrote: »

If Blatter wants to spread soccer throughout the world and share the hosting with countries outside Europe and S. America, why was Qatar chosen above many other countries that have a larger soccer playing population and would benefit more to having the tournament in the country

What soccer benefit comes out of having the tournament in Qatar?

Well obv the bribes had a part to play, Australia/usa/Korea should have upped their hoors budget, it's part of the process, like it or not.

Benefits, a feast of real football in the middle of winter and some nice stadiums for poor countries
What soccer benefit came out of hosting it in South Africa?

Hyzepher

LaGlisse wrote: »

Well obv the bribes had a part to play, Australia/usa/Korea should have upped their hoors budget, it's part of the process, like it or not.

Benefits, a feast of real football in the middle of winter and some nice stadiums for poor countries
What soccer benefit came out of hosting it in South Africa?

Hardly poor.

Benefits of S. Africa are that more people are likely to take up soccer - isn't that one of FIFA's reasoning behind spreading the tournament around? Qatar doesn't have the population to make a difference.

The size of Quatar is going to be an issue. 32 teams & supporters in such a confined area - looks like an issue to me

Cookiemunster

Well the LFP have joined the Premier League in denouncing the decision. They say that it has to be played in May 2022.
Also Karl Heinze Rumminegge (head of the Eruopean Clubs Association) has said that if it happens the clubs have to be compensated.


"Today's recommendation of the Task Force regarding the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar [not to stage the finals in the summer of 2022] does not come as a surprise; it was rather expected.

For the football family the rescheduling of the 2022 FIFA World Cup presents a difficult and challenging task. All match calendars across the world will have to accommodate such a tournament in 2022/23, which requires everyone's willingness to compromise.

However, the European clubs and leagues cannot be expected to bear the costs for such a rescheduling. We expect the clubs to be compensated for the damage that a final decision would cause."

LaGlisse

Also it's funny how none of these ethical object objections are brought up by fans of certain clubs when some Russian or Arab scumbag decides to pump silly money into their club. Don't see people boycotting games etc then do we? I'd have thought people on an Irish soccer forum would be able to think for themselves and not take their lead from a butthurt British media who will never get over the fact that Fifa overlooked them in favor of a proper country.
Should have sent some better looking whores instead of Sir becks lads

Hyzepher

LaGlisse wrote: »

Also it's funny how none of these ethical object objections are brought up by fans of certain clubs when some Russian or Arab scumbag decides to pump silly money into their club. Don't see people boycotting games etc then do we? I'd have thought people on an Irish soccer forum would be able to think for themselves and not take their lead from a butthurt British media who will never get over the fact that Fifa overlooked them in favor of a proper country.
Should have sent some better looking wheres instead of Sir becks lads

Ahh, I'm beginning to see the root of your opposition now.

LaGlisse

Hyzepher wrote: »

Ahh, I'm beginning to see the root of your opposition now.

Opposition to what? I'm in favour of the Russia and Qatar World cups!

Hyzepher

Opposition to the moving of the tournament

Cookiemunster

LaGlisse wrote: »

Also it's funny how none of these ethical object objections are brought up by fans of certain clubs when some Russian or Arab scumbag decides to pump silly money into their club. Don't see people boycotting games etc then do we? I'd have thought people on an Irish soccer forum would be able to think for themselves and not take their lead from a button hurt British media who will never get over the fact that Fifa overlooked them in favor of a proper country.
Should have sent some better looking wheres instead of Sir becks lads

Seriously? Russia is a proper country, but the UK isn't? Russia is a country where it's illegal to be openly gay, the UK isn't. Russia is a county that has sham elections and is run by a dictator, the UK isn't. Russia is a country where bribery is a way of life, the UK isn't. Russia is a country where the media is run by the state, the UK has a free press. There are many, many other issues too.

Hyzepher

LaGlisse wrote: »

I'm in favour of the Russia and Qatar World cups!

Why are you in favour of the Qatar tournament? What benefits does Qatar bring?

Vanolder

LaGlisse wrote: »

Also it's funny how none of these ethical object objections are brought up by fans of certain clubs when some Russian or Arab scumbag decides to pump silly money into their club. Don't see people boycotting games etc then do we? I'd have thought people on an Irish soccer forum would be able to think for themselves and not take their lead from a butthurt British media who will never get over the fact that Fifa overlooked them in favor of a proper country.
Should have sent some better looking whores instead of Sir becks lads

+1

Most of the lads on here are skysports die hards tho.

Muff_Daddy

The arguements made by Blatter and Platini, that the World Cup should be spread around the globe, don't even apply to Qatar. They apply best to Australia. Asia have had a World Cup, and essentially Russia is Asia as well so that would make it 2. Australasia hasn't, which would make it the sixth continent to host the tournament, spreading the tournament across the globe right there.

And they are a suitable country to host a World Cup, many different cities and stadia. It's a growing football nation, and a huge sporting nation, so at the very least, any new stadia will be put to use. I always thought a host nation had to have 8 different cities to host a World Cup? Was that rule never in place, or conveniently forgotten about?

And that's not even mentioning the ethical issues Qatar has.......



But yeah, I reall only want the World Cup in Western Europe for all eternity..........

iDave

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Seriously? Russia is a proper country, but the UK isn't? Russia is a country where it's illegal to be openly gay, the UK isn't. Russia is a county that has sham elections and is run by a dictator, the UK isn't. Russia is a country where bribery is a way of life, the UK isn't. Russia is a country where the media is run by the state, the UK has a free press. There are many, many other issues too.

Ye but 800 years etc etc

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Having just come back from a week in Qatar, this is going to be disaster and not just becaue of the weather. Other points to note:

• There is no rail service in the country, just busses. Hundreds of thousands of fans are going to have to get from city to city with buses, taxis are hiring cars. And there's aren't that many busses or taxis.
• Trafic in Doha is chaotic unless it's Friday. Rush hour runs from about 3pm to about 11pm - and that's before the fans get there.
• Outside of Doha, the capital, the other host cities are quiet small. One of them - Ash Shamal - has a population of about 8000 (and they're building a 45,000 all seater stadium there!) and has no hotel listings on booking.com
• The only place you can buy alcohol is in posh hotels, and even then you have to prove you;re not a muslim. They say they'll have "fanzones" but these fanzones would need to be the size of Bray to accomodate all the fans - can you imagine how hard it's going to be to get served in one of them?
• There's only one hostel in the entire country and the hotels start at about 60 euro a night.
  

irelandrover wrote: »

I actually think a late November/December world cup would be brilliant. Will be great to come home on the dark winter days and have a few matches to watch.

Bearing in mind the time difference - An 8pm kickoff there is 5pm in Ireland.

jack presley wrote: »

How strict are they on religion in Qatar? Surely that'll be an issue for games every Friday during the tournament then.

They're talking of shortening the timetable but keeping the same 64 games so they'll have to play Fridays to fit it all in.

Not very strict if you're not a muslim. Friday noon is the only mass-public prayer time. Beyond that, it'll be much like playing a game on Sunday here.

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

In the USA and other countries names gay football fans can legally enter the country. In 2013 Qatar announced a plan to keep gay foreigners out of the country. You can be openly gay and go to the games

Female fans can wear what they want, go where they want and travel with who they want in all the other countries.

They've stated that they will allo gay fans in for the world cup, as long as there are no public (or technically private) displays. Good luck buying codoms.

Women are free to wear what they want (within reason - there were plenty of women walking around in western clothes - but they'd object to mini-shirts and tube-tops) and go where they want, but they will have to pur up with a lot of unwanted attention unless with a guy.

Zebra3

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Seriously? Russia is a proper country, but the UK isn't? Russia is a country where it's illegal to be openly gay, the UK isn't. Russia is a county that has sham elections and is run by a dictator, the UK isn't. Russia is a country where bribery is a way of life, the UK isn't. Russia is a country where the media is run by the state, the UK has a free press. There are many, many other issues too.

Britain has been involved in slaughtering huge number of Iraqis after illegally invading their country. Britain has an unelected, billionaire head of state who is also head of the state church.

Britain has refused to investigate its military murdering civilians and political activists as well as its military arming terrorist groups to carry out the same crimes.

Hyzepher

But does the Queen play soccer? Thats the real question

LaGlisse

Zebra3 wrote: »

Britain has been involved in slaughtering huge number of Iraqis after illegally invading their country. Britain has an unelected, billionaire head of state who is also head of the state church.

Britain has refused to investigate its military murdering civilians and political activists as well as its military arming terrorist groups to carry out the same crimes.

Don't forget the secret courts, And GCHQ phone tapping and email snooping.
You won't get far here challenging these lads sky news view of the world

Hyzepher

What has any of this got to do with Qatar and the world cup.

It's too hot in Qatar in the Summer!
The World Cup is a Summer tournament.
FIFA are causing mayhem by allowing it to be run in winter.
Qatar is not a suitable place to hold the tournament.

What Britain gets up to is irrelevant

LuckyLloyd

Don't like it? Boycott 2018 qualification matches. Boycott the 2017 Confederations Cup and boycott the World Club Cups. Most importantly, a Boycott the **** out of the 2018 finals.

This is going to happen because we're all going to watch.

Hyzepher

I think it will go ahead and i also think it will be a defining moment in world soccer - a tournament that will change how FIFA do things.

Zebra3

Hyzepher wrote: »

But does the Queen play soccer? Thats the real question

She's not into which is unusual for a German.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Hyzepher wrote: »

But does the Queen play soccer? Thats the real question

We've already addressde the question of homosexuals in Qatar....

:pac:

thelad95

Hyzepher wrote: »

I think it will go ahead and i also think it will be a defining moment in world soccer - a tournament that will change how FIFA do things.

Yes it will. And strangely enough the earth won't explode from a tweaking of the football calendar either. What's all the more worrying is how they're bending over backwards to corrupt countries like Qatar and Russia. People were calling for years for the World Cup to be taken away from the European and South American duopoly but perhaps it was better that way. Look at 2002 for example. Japan and South Korea were barely able to cobble it together and even then most of the stadia were crap. In 2010, many fans were put at risk by travelling to crime-ridden cities and loads of white elephant stadia were built. 2022 is just farcical. There will be no lasting legacy. Do you think the children of oligarchs are going to start playing football in the streets and rushing to the local market to buy football jerseys? Billions of pounds will be spent on building, from scratch 10 or 11 ridiculously Utopian stadia that are all going to be disassembled again afterwards. The only WC outside of the duopoly that's been a success was the USA.

LaGlisse

Since when has getting new people interested in the game in the host nation been a big factor? You really think there was a whole load of new converts in Brazil last year. Would have thought the market was pretty saturated there.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

thelad95 wrote: »

Look at 2002 for example. Japan and South Korea were barely able to cobble it together and even then most of the stadia were crap.

Making two countries that hate each other co-hosts isn't a great idea.

syngindub

Has Qatar ever qualified for a world cup in it's history?

gosplan

Hyzepher wrote: »

I think it will go ahead and i also think it will be a defining moment in world soccer - a tournament that will change how FIFA do things.

Yes they used to at least pretend that the finals weren't just given to whoever hands in the fattest brown envelopes.

Now they don't have to worry about that anymore.

Can wait to see Qatar make the semi's on the back of a few questionable decisions.

thelad95

LaGlisse wrote: »

Since when has getting new people interested in the game in the host nation been a big factor? You really think there was a whole load of new converts in Brazil last year. Would have thought the market was pretty saturated there.

It's pretty much THE reason why it was given to the United States.

Richard Hillman

Hyzepher wrote: »

But does the Queen play soccer? Thats the real question

They have been known to dabble

Dempsey

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Having just come back from a week in Qatar, this is going to be disaster and not just becaue of the weather. Other points to note:

• There is no rail service in the country, just busses. Hundreds of thousands of fans are going to have to get from city to city with buses, taxis are hiring cars. And there's aren't that many busses or taxis.
• Trafic in Doha is chaotic unless it's Friday. Rush hour runs from about 3pm to about 11pm - and that's before the fans get there.
• Outside of Doha, the capital, the other host cities are quiet small. One of them - Ash Shamal - has a population of about 8000 (and they're building a 45,000 all seater stadium there!) and has no hotel listings on booking.com
• The only place you can buy alcohol is in posh hotels, and even then you have to prove you;re not a muslim. They say they'll have "fanzones" but these fanzones would need to be the size of Bray to accomodate all the fans - can you imagine how hard it's going to be to get served in one of them?

They have 7 years to build the infrastructure and they will because they want to be the new UAE

Richard Hillman

Is the confederations cup going to be in November or December too?

Fr Tod Umptious

It may have been said before here but can people please cut Blatter a bit of slack on this one.

He did not vote for Qatar.

He may be going with the majority now, but it was not his choice

thelad95

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Is the confederations cup going to be in November or December too?

Probably December 2021. Either that or it will be Summer 2021 in a different venue. Having the Confed cup in the same place as the World Cup is a relatively new phenomenon.

Fr Tod Umptious

willowthewisp wrote: »

They should actually continue the domestic leagues like they do in Rugby when the 6 nations etc is on.
Won't happen but it should.

Quit with the rugby comparisons.

The likes of the Celtic league or whatever they have in England are tiny compared to the top world soccer competitions.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dempsey wrote: »

They have 7 years to build the infrastructure and they will because they want to be the new UAE

There's a lot of building going on at the moment, but Doha is pretty much already running at capacity in terms of traffic.

There's also the issue of getting from city to city: it's not far, but they're simply not able to deal with mass amounts of people traveling from city to city.

And that's before you build accomodation for an influx of people that may double the population of some of the smaller cities.

Dempsey

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

There's a lot of building going on at the moment, but Doha is pretty much already running at capacity in terms of traffic.

There's also the issue of getting from city to city: it's not far, but they're simply not able to deal with mass amounts of people traveling from city to city.

And that's before you build accomodation for an influx of people that may double the population of some of the smaller cities.

If you do abit of googling, you'll see that they are starting massive infrastructure projects to address those issues.

They are building a 3 line Metro system (200km of rail)
A light rail system between cities
A Tunnel under Doha Bay
8 Lane Expressway covering 3 interchanges

They'll be building hotels aswell.

Barlett

One thing you can be guaranteed is that they will be more than ready for the World Cup. They'll keep throwing money at things until it's ready, from a fans point of view it's not an ideal time for a tournament, but from a football point of view...at least the majority of players will be fit and sharp!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dempsey wrote: »

If you do abit of googling, you'll see that they are starting massive infrastructure projects to address those issues.

They are building a 3 line Metro system (200km of rail)
A light rail system between cities
A Tunnel under Doha Bay
8 Lane Expressway covering 3 interchanges

They'll be building hotels aswell.

Unless they do the whole thing underground, it's never goign to be ready in seven years.

Not doubting the hotels - it's the fact that they'll need more hotels than people live in the cities. There's also the cost of stayign at them versus the cost of building them, and what they're going to do after the finals finish.

Guy:Incognito

This is the problem with a small place like that too. They have no use for the stadiums and infrastructure, hotels etc once the tournament is over.

Other countries that already have the majority of that in place by having big leagues aren't left with such waste after.

It's a vanity project.

Dempsey

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Unless they do the whole thing underground, it's never goign to be ready in seven years.

Not doubting the hotels - it's the fact that they'll need more hotels than people live in the cities. There's also the cost of stayign at them versus the cost of building them, and what they're going to do after the finals finish.

Most of it will be underground but some will be overground and some will elevated. Scheduled to be finished by 2019.

The World Cup and World Championships are seen as events to showcase their Dubai-esque rise to a more modern country. I really couldnt care less what they do afterwards or whether they whole thing becomes a giant white elephant. They are being quite ambitious though.

Pity Ireland doesnt have Oil/Gas to bankroll these sort of projects. Oh wait, we gave it away for a song!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dempsey wrote: »

Most of it will be underground but some will be overground and some will elevated. Scheduled to be finished by 2019.

The World Cup and World Championships are seen as events to showcase their Dubai-esque rise to a more modern country. I really couldnt care less what they do afterwards or whether they whole thing becomes a giant white elephant. They are being quite ambitious though.

Pity Ireland doesnt have Oil/Gas to bankroll these sort of projects. Oh wait, we gave it away for a song!

We'd put the things to better use, I'll give you that! I seriously do not see the thing being ready in four years. In any case, that only helps Doha.

Fr Tod Umptious

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

There's a lot of building going on at the moment, but Doha is pretty much already running at capacity in terms of traffic.

There's also the issue of getting from city to city: it's not far, but they're simply not able to deal with mass amounts of people traveling from city to city.

And that's before you build accomodation for an influx of people that may double the population of some of the smaller cities.

The two bits in bold will not happen.

World Cups in far flung places are not very well attended by visiting fans, anecdotal evidence suggests that the biggest set of fans at WC 2002 ere English and Irish, with many of those being ex-pats based in other parts of the world.
There was feck all from elsewhere

A WC in Qatar will not attract a whole lot of visiting fans, very few from Africa or South America will travel and less from Europe than somewhere like the US or even Japan would attract.
You will not have thousands of drunk Paddys in the main square of Doha like you had in the main square of Poznan.

These events rely on local fans to fill the seats in the stadiums

There are not enough people in Qatar to fill those stadiums

And this is why the whole Qatar bid was a joke in the first place and should have been excluded at the first rejection phase.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The two bits in bold will not happen.

World Cups in far flung places are not very well attended by visiting fans, anecdotal evidence suggests that the biggest set of fans at WC 2002 ere English and Irish, with many of those being ex-pats based in other parts of the world.
There was feck all from elsewhere

A WC in Qatar will not attract a whole lot of visiting fans, very few from Africa or South America will travel and less from Europe than somewhere like the US or even Japan would attract.
You will not have thousands of drunk Paddys in the main square of Doha like you had in the main square of Poznan.

These events rely on local fans to fill the seats in the stadiums

There are not enough people in Qatar to fill those stadiums

And this is why the whole Qatar bid was a joke in the first place and should have been excluded at the first rejection phase.

I read somewhere that 300,000 went to South Africa and half a million to Brazil, so that's what I was basing the figure on.

By mass amounts of people, I'm talking 15-20,000 average per country - that's still 20-30 thousand foreign fans to each match and about 300-400 thousand in total. This is what's needed to make it work.

If they get it, they won;t be able to moe them all fast enough around the country eve nthought it;s relavtiely small.

If they don't - and you cuold well be right - then it's a moot point anyway.