Qatar 2022 Mayhem

COYVB

Did a bit of looking into it. UEFA isn't actually part of FIFA, FIFA just recognises UEFA as the European organizational body. Each national FA is a member of FIFA, and to be a member of FIFA you must be a member of a continental confederation.

So, UEFA could in fact tell FIFA they want nothing to do with them any more. FIFA, however, govern the individual football associations that make up UEFA, so those FAs would need to align themselves with UEFA as the overall power, not FIFA.

In short: nothing stopping FAs from leaving FIFA

COYVB

Dempsey wrote: »

FIFA are the parent company

They are not. Read the above post.

syngindub

COYVB wrote: »

Did a bit of looking into it. UEFA isn't actually part of FIFA, FIFA just recognises UEFA as the European organizational body. Each national FA is a member of FIFA, and to be a member of FIFA you must be a member of a continental confederation.

So, UEFA could in fact tell FIFA they want nothing to do with them any more. FIFA, however, govern the individual football associations that make up UEFA, so those FAs would need to align themselves with UEFA as the overall power, not FIFA.

In short: nothing stopping FAs from leaving FIFA

Are you suggesting FA exclude themselves from International football for the foreseeable future? cant see it

COYVB

syngindub wrote: »

Are you suggesting FA exclude themselves from International football for the foreseeable future? cant see it

They would only be excluding themselves from FIFA tournaments. They'd be perfectly able to play in a UEFA organised tournament. Player registrations would be a fiddly one though. Would FIFA even make it possible for a player to play in UEFA at club level but still in a FIFA international tournament? Would they allow players back in from UEFA FAs to FIFA FAs?

Dempsey

COYVB wrote: »

They are not. Read the above post.

FIFA is the parent company of Uefa.

All player registrations are legally held by FIFA. UEFA cannot split

COYVB

Dempsey wrote: »

FIFA is the parent company of Uefa.

Like I said. It is not.

FatherTed

UEFA could come out and say to hell with FIFA, we'll have our own WC and we govern ourselves. UEFA would be fine without FIFA but FIFA need UEFA to realistically exist.

COYVB

FatherTed wrote: »

UEFA could come out and say to hell with FIFA, we'll have our own WC

They do. It's the European Championship

FatherTed

COYVB wrote: »

They do. It's the European Championship

Yes that's what I mean. In terms of quality, the EC>>>WC anyway.

I just think the clubs from the big leagues who've haven't said anything so far will object as it will affect their bottom line in terms on sponsorship contracts, TV contracts, scheduling changes etc. I know it is some years out but I really think there will be some sort of rebellion by the Man Utds/Real/Bayern/Barca/Liverpool etc

UnitedIrishman

The interesting part for me is whether players decide to play or not. November and December are still pretty hot months. You're talking about players who will start in mid-July, be pushed by their clubs to have a good start to the season, be pushed by their countries for a month in Qatar, have to return and play almost straight away and then finish the season in June. Then return for pre-season around a month later. We already see how hard it is for players to put in a major season with their club and then struggle to play decent for the country at the WC, and the next season really struggle to get back into it.

bucketybuck

syngindub wrote: »

Where does that leave the tournament?
almost 45% of the players in the last world cup played their football in Europe !!

Was it not more like 75%?

Lovely Bloke

Dempsey wrote: »

Splitting can't happen.

absolute crock of poo.

Of course a split can happen.

The FAI could tomorrow withdraw from FIFA, it means Ireland wouldn't be able to field a team in FIFA WC Qualifications (but that's not really an issue, as withdrawing from FIFA likely means they don't want to play in the WC anyway), and likely UEFA comps too.

A split CAN happen, it will take massive balls for it to though, and no-one in football has particularly gigantic bollox.

bucketybuck

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

A split CAN happen, it will take massive balls for it to though, and no-one in football has particularly gigantic bollox.

Don't know about that, it took some massive balls to announce such an obviously corrupt and farcical decision as a summer world cup in Qatar.

Lovely Bloke

bucketybuck wrote: »

Don't know about that, it took some massive balls to announce such an obviously corrupt and farcical decision as a summer world cup in Qatar.

Well apart from Blatter and his Cronies, but no-one will challenge them, and Dear Leader John Delaney certainly won't pull out of FIFA

ArmaniJeanss

FatherTed wrote: »

What if the leagues like EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga/Serie A/Ligue 1/etc tell FIFA, no thanks, F-U with your winter world cup? They could say that it's not worth the disruption and probable financial loss.

Too many top players would still want to play in the World Cup for this to be a worthwhile action by the leagues. No point going ahead with your leagues without your best players, and next to impossible to stop them going.

Dempsey

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

absolute crock of poo.

Of course a split can happen.

The FAI could tomorrow withdraw from FIFA, it means Ireland wouldn't be able to field a team in FIFA WC Qualifications (but that's not really an issue, as withdrawing from FIFA likely means they don't want to play in the WC anyway), and likely UEFA comps too.

A split CAN happen, it will take massive balls for it to though, and no-one in football has particularly gigantic bollox.

UEFA cannot split from FIFA. Don't take what I said out of context.

If the FAI do that, none of the current players can represent Ireland as they are legally tied to fifa through their club contracts.

FIFA' legal framework means they run the show, simple as. Heavy losses in court pulling the stunts described in this thread so far

Zebra3

Dempsey wrote: »

UEFA cannot split from FIFA. Don't take what I said out of context.

If the FAI do that, none of the current players can represent Ireland as they are legally tied to fifa through their club contracts.

FIFA' legal framework means they run the show, simple as. Heavy losses in court pulling the stunts described in this thread so far

Money talks and therefore the real power resides with UEFA (so long as it keeps Europe's top clubs happy).

If UEFA wanted to say slán to FIFA, all FIFA can do is ban UEFA and its members.

What is FIFA left with then?

jmayo

titan18 wrote: »

Would love if the clubs just refused to release their players. I'd imagine FIFA will still want their Confederations Cup on aswell, and want that in November/December the year before, so it ****s up two seasons straight off without considering the impact it has on seasons before and after. Confederations Cup would then clash with the African Nations Cup for whoever are the African Champions

You can't just resolve this in one or two years because if you start season early in 2022, it means less time off after 2021 season.
If you extend 2022/2023 season into 2023 it has knock on affect on 2023/2024.

We are talking about best part of 3 months and no league has that amount of time off in Europe, bar maybe Russia and their break only starts in December.
Most countries with sizable breaks are off in December to February.
This would mean they stop their leagues in October and don't resume until February/March.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

That would be a major owngoal as imo around 75% of players would just upsticks and go to the world cup anyway. They can't all be sacked/sued. Would cause a major clusterfcuk.

Absolutely no way that Brazilians or Argentinians in particular are going to refuse to put on their teams jerseys in a World Cup and a chance at national immortaility. And plenty of top Europeans and Asians would doubtless feel the same pride.

Just remember where they earn their bread.
Have you noticed the amount of players who give up their international careers to further their club careers.

LaGlisse wrote: »

The only way this isn't happening is if ISIS make it to Qatar by 2022. I know all the haters would just like the tournament to rotate between Germany and England for infinity but it's the WORLD cup

England ha had one World Cup.
You do know that ?

ISIS have already been there, to pick up some dosh.

LaGlisse wrote: »

It would be winter in Australia too if it was held there in June/July

You just keep delivering those gems. :rolleyes:

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yea they would, but as I said everything is negotiable.

This is going to be a disaster, not because of the winter\summer argument but because there are no enough people in Qatar and there will not be enough visitors to make this a viable event.

And for a lot of people a world cup is a holiday with football and a bit of exotic travel thrown in.
Nice ladies get to show their booty, guys get to hang out, have beers and chill watching the nice ladies and the football.

Can anyone imagine the boards thread for the WC 2022 hotties ?

It will be a world cup devoid of colour, women and life.

thelad95 wrote: »

You could also argue the following were unfeasible:

Brazil: Woeful poverty in most cities, crumbling stadia, incredibly high potential of riots during tournament as happened in the previous years Confed Cup

South Africa: High crime rate in most host cities putting fans at risk, stadiums chosen at ridiculous altitudes.

Japan/South Korea: Woeful stadia, two countries that had been teetering close to war for decades and a massive shortage of infrastructure.

Isn't it interesting that two bidding countries (England and Australia) which pretty much had all the infrastructure in place already were overlooked?

Afterhours is missing two now.

Do you know the difference between North and South Korea ?
I can't believe someone is lamenting the infrastructure of South Korea and Japan. :rolleyes:

Ps you really forgot the glaring one.
Argentina 78.

COYVB

Dempsey wrote: »

UEFA cannot split from FIFA. Don't take what I said out of context.

If the FAI do that, none of the current players can represent Ireland as they are legally tied to fifa through their club contracts.

FIFA' legal framework means they run the show, simple as. Heavy losses in court pulling the stunts described in this thread so far

You're ignoring the bit where uefa are not part of FIFA but rather a completely separate body recognised by FIFA

bucketybuck

Qatar's construction frenzy ahead of the 2022 World Cup is on course to cost the lives of at least 4,000 migrant workers before a ball is kicked, the International Trade Union Confederation (ITUC) has claimed.

More spurious reasons for thinking Qatar is a poor choice to host the World cup.

Fr Tod Umptious

If you there were to be a split between UEFA/FIFA etc then that would be the end of international football as we know it for a long time.

Any split would be messy, some countries would stick with FIFA, others would not, you would have rival world and European championships all over the place etc.

greendom

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

If you there were to be a split between UEFA/FIFA etc then that would be the end of international football as we know it for a long time.

Any split would be messy, some countries would stick with FIFA, others would not, you would have rival world and European championships all over the place etc.

The sport would become like boxing or darts! Sky would absolutely love it, unification bouts the lot

Maximus Alexander

What an absolute farce.

I'm sure there's a rather complex legal minefield around this, but I wonder if UEFA clubs could come together and do something like write into all player contracts that span 2022 that the player cannot be released for a World Cup during the domestic season.

titan18

If you're asking a player to choose between his 100,000 a week contract and not playing at a WC. They'll choose the money. If the major European leagues refused to release their players, FIFA would be ****ed. There's no WC (or at least one that people care about) without the players. I'm sure FIFA can run a WC of minnow nations, but who'd watch it.

Guy:Incognito

bucketybuck wrote: »

More spurious reasons for thinking Qatar is a poor choice to host the World cup.

They're only Indians, sure they've loads more.

Stop being so racist towards the qatari's sure aren't they giving those dead people jobs they wouldnt have otherwise.

Mickeroo

titan18 wrote: »

If you're asking a player to choose between his 100,000 a week contract and not playing at a WC. They'll choose the money. If the major European leagues refused to release their players, FIFA would be ****ed. There's no WC (or at least one that people care about) without the players. I'm sure FIFA can run a WC of minnow nations, but who'd watch it.

I'd be on board with that, we could actually win it then.

COYVB

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

What an absolute farce.

I'm sure there's a rather complex legal minefield around this, but I wonder if UEFA clubs could come together and do something like write into all player contracts that span 2022 that the player cannot be released for a World Cup during the domestic season.

AFAIK contracts have to go through FIFA. So you'd need each country's native FA to stop recognising FIFA as the supreme power and instead hand that power over UEFA, who would then have all the contracts passing through them, and they could allow it.

But what do you do when a player is being signed from a FIFA governed FA to a UEFA governed FA. Would FIFA release the contract? They'd sure as hell make it as difficult as possible.

Would an international for a FIFA recognising nation be allowed to play for them if he played under UEFA?

There would be many, many questions that would need to be answered, and it sure as hell wouldn't be an easy process, BUT given that UEFA are not (despite what's being said in this thread) part of FIFA, but rather a governing body that FIFA chooses to recognise, it's possible

Hyzepher

Maybe someone has the answer to this

Traditionally the awarding of the world cup is announced about 6 years before the tournament - the 2022 world cup was announced 12 years before it will be held - why?

COYVB

Hyzepher wrote: »

Maybe someone has the answer to this

Traditionally the awarding of the world cup is announced about 6 years before the tournament - the 2022 world cup was announced 12 years before it will be held - why?

they do them in batches, with the next batch announced 6 years before the first tournament in the batch is set to take place, by the more recent system AFAIK

Dempsey

COYVB wrote: »

You're ignoring the bit where uefa are not part of FIFA but rather a completely separate body recognised by FIFA

They are. FIFA holds all player registrations, the hierarchy puts fifa in control of uefa

COYVB

Dempsey wrote: »

They are. FIFA holds all player registrations, the hierarchy puts fifa in control of uefa

You said, explicitly, that FIFA were the parent company of UEFA. They're not. The companies are wholly unrelated beyond the fact that FIFA chooses to recognise UEFA as the continental federation for Europe, and that makes for a completely different story than the one you were putting forward.

You're absolutely correct that registrations go through FIFA, though, but that could be changed relatively easily (at club level). It would just need the football associations to no longer recognise FIFA. Those player registrations, remember, are only registrations with FIFA to allow players to play in FIFA sanctioned tournaments. No registration = no FIFA compliance = no playing in FIFA competitions. None of that matters if FIFA is no longer recognised.

Again though that's ONLY applicable for club competition, and it becomes infinitely messier with the implications for international football, because the way it is right now, FIFA would undoubtedly refuse to allow players playing the game under non-FIFA affiliated governance to play within their international game. That means no world cup allowed, and most likely no inter-governance matches allowed, and players moving to non-FIFA governed leagues being banned from FIFA tournament play

syngindub

so this is wrong then

COYVB

Yup, FIFA does not own UEFA, it recognises it though. Have a read though the rest of the copy in that article and it should be explained

syngindub

COYVB wrote: »

Yup, FIFA does not own UEFA, it recognises it though. Have a read though the rest of the copy in that article and it should be explained

nobody is saying FIFA own UEFA, they are 1 of 6 confederations governed by FIFA.

COYVB

syngindub wrote: »

nobody is saying FIFA own UEFA, they are 1 of 6 confederations governed by FIFA.

Dempsey said FIFA was UEFA's parent company. They're not. UEFA is a separate entity that works within FIFA's guidelines for the game, and as such FIFA officially recognises FIFA as the governor for all European football that falls under FIFA's remit.

UEFA could therefore walk away from FIFA at any time, just as FIFA could decide to stop recognising UEFA

Fr Tod Umptious

COYVB wrote: »

they do them in batches, with the next batch announced 6 years before the first tournament in the batch is set to take place, by the more recent system AFAIK

No they don't.
Up to 2010 they only announced one bid winner at a time 6 or 7 years ahead.

But for 2018 and 2022 they announced both together in Dec 2010.

SantryRed

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No they don't.
Up to 2010 they only announced one bid winner at a time 6 or 7 years ahead.

But for 2018 and 2022 they announced both together in Dec 2010.

It's almost like they knew 2022 was gonna cause a storm....

Guy:Incognito

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No they don't.
Up to 2010 they only announced one bid winner at a time 6 or 7 years ahead.

But for 2018 and 2022 they announced both together in Dec 2010.

Few of the lads needed new houses so wanted double bribes.

Dempsey

COYVB wrote: »

Dempsey said FIFA was UEFA's parent company. They're not. UEFA is a separate entity that works within FIFA's guidelines for the game, and as such FIFA officially recognises FIFA as the governor for all European football that falls under FIFA's remit.

UEFA could therefore walk away from FIFA at any time, just as FIFA could decide to stop recognising UEFA

You do realise that subsidiaries are separate legal entities. Doesn't mean they can do what they like

The idea of these companies walking away from each other is laughable and only result multiple court cases

Technically, we could see flying pigs some day

COYVB

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No they don't.
Up to 2010 they only announced one bid winner at a time 6 or 7 years ahead.

But for 2018 and 2022 they announced both together in Dec 2010.

And is the last announcement not "the most recent system"?

COYVB

Dempsey wrote: »

You do realise that subsidiaries are separate legal entities. Doesn't mean they can do what they like

The idea of these companies walking away from each other is laughable and only result multiple court cases

Technically, we could see flying pigs some day

They're not a subsidiary either

I'm not for one second saying it would be an easy thing to do, but they could certainly do it. Wouldn't be the first time one organization stopped recognizing another

Lovely Bloke

It's the giraffes I feel sorry for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusail

It is planned to have marinas, residential areas, island resorts, commercial districts, luxury shopping and leisure facilities, including two golf courses, an all giraffe zoo and an entertainment district.

Leroy42

UEFA will not be walking away from FIFA. There is too much money in it and the UEFA players will never accept that they have to forfeit their chance to play in the WC, which like it our not is now the king.

Euro champs may be great, but ask any player, will anybody, and it the world cup that matters.

FIFA own that and as such they own football. UEFA will get some concessions out of this, money will basically make this work. Its not about the fans, not about the players not about 'spreading the game'. Its about maximising money. FIFA will do very well out of this, and UEFA will get their cut.

Just look at the EPL. That is not about making the English game better, not about developing grass roots football (unless it can delivery stars they can sell on) it is all about money maximisation for the clubs. Same with the CL.

So all this talk about slave labour, gay rights, corruption etc, although all valid play no part in the decisions that FIFA or UEFA take.

GLaDOS

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

It's the giraffes I feel sorry for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusail

Sounds like a bit of a tall tale to me.

thelad95

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

It's the giraffes I feel sorry for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusail

I can't believe they would have the neck to do something like that....

jmayo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Few of the lads needed new houses so wanted double bribes.

Ah come on, it was for training camps for the players in their country.
BTW the training camps were to be held in the new swimming pools and jacuzzis at the officals homes.

Dempsey wrote: »

...
Technically, we could see flying pigs some day

Ehh I don't think we will see many pigs, flying or otherwsie, at Qatar 2022.

No chance of a bacon butty in that part of the world.

Dempsey

COYVB wrote: »

They're not a subsidiary either

I'm not for one second saying it would be an easy thing to do, but they could certainly do it. Wouldn't be the first time one organization stopped recognizing another

If uefa leave with the FA 's , fifa still hold all player registrations. Penny dropping yet?

Hyzepher

Dempsey wrote: »

If uefa leave with the FA 's , fifa still hold all player registrations. Penny dropping yet?

Registrations to what? If UEFA planned a 2020 break-away I doubt there are any contracts in place that far ahead.

UEFA would just start taking registrations themselves

bucketybuck

Dempsey wrote: »

If uefa leave with the FA 's , fifa still hold all player registrations. Penny dropping yet?

And the clubs just register all their players with UEFA. It would perhaps be one of the easier sorted issues relating to a breakaway.

All FIFA could do is say those players can't play in FIFA competitions, but in a breakaway thats exactly what they want stop doing anyway.

Leroy42

bucketybuck wrote: »

And the clubs just register all their players with UEFA. It would perhaps be one of the easier sorted issues relating to a breakaway.

All FIFA could do is say those players can't play in FIFA competitions, but in a breakaway thats exactly what they want stop doing anyway.

The clubs may want it but what player is going to want to miss out on the chance of going to a WC?

And what about the South American and other non-European (in the sense of UEFA) born players. By signed for a UEFA club are they then no longer allowed play in FIFA comps? Or do they keep dual registration?

Will UEFA clubs, now no longer part of FIFA, allow FIFA reg players go to FIFA comps?

The only reason why FIFA remain in charge is the WC, they own the big ticket item and all the others need to stay in line.

Do you think for a second that FAI have any intention of ever stepping away from FIFA?