Killincarrig roundabouts

Gall chno

Would anyone have a final costing for the Killincarrig Roundabouts and also the cost of maintaining the flowerbeds at this junction?

Langerland

Guess you could try Wicklow CoCo?

Why? I think they have done a pretty good job. It's a much safer junction for pedestrians now.

Jimjay

Langerland wrote: »

Guess you could try Wicklow CoCo?

Why? I think they have done a pretty good job. It's a much safer junction for pedestrians now.

It looks much nicer. Not sure how safe it is to have a zebra crossing a few yards from a roundabout on a blind bend. I have already witnessed two near misses (drivers faults obviously but the layout doesnt help)

Langerland

Jimjay wrote: »

It looks much nicer. Not sure how safe it is to have a zebra crossing a few yards from a roundabout on a blind bend. I have already witnessed two near misses (drivers faults obviously but the layout doesnt help)

People will cross there anyway. Not much can be done about the layout of the two junctions. I like the way the crossings are very clearly marked and at night, the lighting is angled in a way that makes everything very clearly visible to a driver. I wish all crossings in the town were done in this way.

zanador

I think Tidy Towns maintain the flowerbed there, I have seen them on occasion.

poldebruin

Jimjay wrote: »

It looks much nicer. Not sure how safe it is to have a zebra crossing a few yards from a roundabout on a blind bend. I have already witnessed two near misses (drivers faults obviously but the layout doesnt help)

I agree, it's a terrible spot for a pedestrian crossing - don't forget, it's also quite a steep hill, and the car is frequently starting from a full stop (if that makes sense). Knowing it's the drivers fault is a small comfort to the poor sod that gets hit. Could they not have moved it just a bit further back to encourage people to cross at a safer spot?

Overall I like it though.

Shazerina

I agree that the crossing could have been put back a little from the exit off the roundabout. I have had to stop suddenly a couple of times coming off the roundabout and going up the hill for that pedestrian crossing. One day, it was pouring down. Visibility was awful. But a man walking a dog stepped out at the crossing - as was his right. I had to stop abruptly, on the hill, having just come around the roundabout from a stopped position. I wasn't going fast and had just made it into 2nd gear but I'm really lucky the guy behind me was paying attention and didn't go into the back of me.
Also, the number of people who are just driving over the roundabout rather than around it is crazy too.

Charlie-Bravo

What do you mean drive around it? Mini-roundabouts don't lend themselves much to driving around, it's more just for a right of way set-up i.e. give way to traffic from the right and then proceed to your desired exit.

Mitch Connor

astrofluff wrote: »

What do you mean drive around it? Mini-roundabouts don't lend themselves much to driving around, it's more just for a right of way set-up i.e. give way to traffic from the right and then proceed to your desired exit.

I see no reason why you could not go around the circle, rather than over it, other than you are going too fast. I don't think the angles are so tight to mean you need to go over the circle.

I also think the position of the crossings is dangerous, and will lead to a few tips at least.

loyatemu

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I see no reason why you could not go around the circle, rather than over it, other than you are going too fast. I don't think the angles are so tight to mean you need to go over the circle.

I also think the position of the crossings is dangerous, and will lead to a few tips at least.

They're mini-roundabouts, you're not supposed to go around the circle, they're just there to indicate right of way as Astrofluff has said. If they wanted you to go around, they would've built a proper roundabout.

zanador

loyatemu wrote: »

They're mini-roundabouts, you're not supposed to go around the circle, they're just there to indicate right of way as Astrofluff has said. If they wanted you to go around, they would've built a proper roundabout.

I don't think so - they put mini ones in places where they can't fit a big one, but you still need to treat them like a standard roundabout and go round rather than over.

Mitch Connor

loyatemu wrote: »

They're mini-roundabouts, you're not supposed to go around the circle, they're just there to indicate right of way as Astrofluff has said. If they wanted you to go around, they would've built a proper roundabout.

They don't have the room to build a bigger round about, and I see no reason to drive over them when there is ample road space around them. Why build a large enough road way around the circles if it is not intended that you use the road?

mrbrianj

I think you can now get penalty points for driving over mini roundabouts!

The pedestrian crossing is in a really bad place. Its dangerous for both drivers and pedestrians.

Jimjay

loyatemu wrote: »

They're mini-roundabouts, you're not supposed to go around the circle, they're just there to indicate right of way as Astrofluff has said. If they wanted you to go around, they would've built a proper roundabout.

They are roundabouts. just because they are painted on doesn't mean you can drive over them, they have the same rules as any other roundabout. As someone said you can get points for doing that.

One of the near misses i saw.

A car driving up mill rd turned left on to the kilcoole road, the car behind him waited for a car coming from the right which also exited on to the kilcoole rd.
The first car that turned left stopped at the crossing, the next car coming from mill rd saw the other car leave the roundabout to the left and entered the roundabout as the road to the right was clear. now as there isn't enough room for two cars the second car that was waiting for the crossing was left with his back end still on the roundabout causing the driver entering the roundabout to have to swerve to avoid hitting him. I presume his eyes were on the right and didnt register that the car he saw leaving the roundabout to the left had stopped.

loyatemu

Jimjay wrote: »

They are roundabouts. just because they are painted on doesn't mean you can drive over them, they have the same rules as any other roundabout. As someone said you can get points for doing that.

yeah looks like I'm wrong on that one.

One of the near misses i saw.

A car driving up mill rd turned left on to the kilcoole road, the car behind him waited for a car coming from the right which also exited on to the kilcoole rd.
The first car that turned left stopped at the crossing, the next car coming from mill rd saw the other car leave the roundabout to the left and entered the roundabout as the road to the right was clear. now as there isn't enough room for two cars the second car that was waiting for the crossing was left with his back end still on the roundabout causing the driver entering the roundabout to have to swerve to avoid hitting him. I presume his eyes were on the right and didnt register that the car he saw leaving the roundabout to the left had stopped.

the 3rd car should've waited for the roundabout to be clear. If he proceeds because he's anticipating the way will be clear but it's not, then it's his fault if there's a prang.

If the crossings were further away from the junction people wouldn't use them and you'd have pedestrians crossing there anyway which would be more dangerous. The crossings are well marked, drivers have to be cautious and assume there might be pedestrians.

One additional measure they could take would be to add rumble strips coming down the hill from Killincarrig.

Alun

loyatemu wrote: »

yeah looks like I'm wrong on that one.

Well, yes and no. Normal roundabout rules apply, but the reason they're built like they are and not with a solid island is that large vehicles like buses or trucks cannot in many cases go around them and so are allowed to drive over them, they have no other choice really. There's no explicit mention of them in the RotR that I can find, but the UK Highway code says ..

188
Mini-roundabouts Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Beware of vehicles making U-turns. Beware of others doing this.

Jimjay

loyatemu wrote: »

yeah looks like I'm wrong on that one.



the 3rd car should've waited for the roundabout to be clear. If he proceeds because he's anticipating the way will be clear but it's not, then it's his fault if there's a prang.

If the crossings were further away from the junction people wouldn't use them and you'd have pedestrians crossing there anyway which would be more dangerous. The crossings are well marked, drivers have to be cautious and assume there might be pedestrians.

One additional measure they could take would be to add rumble strips coming down the hill from Killincarrig.

absolutely the drivers fault but most crashes are, good road design can help but cannot make up for drivers not concentrating.

Charlie-Bravo

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I see no reason why you could not go around the circle, rather than over it, other than you are going too fast. I don't think the angles are so tight to mean you need to go over the circle.

I also think the position of the crossings is dangerous, and will lead to a few tips at least.

How do you know what speed I am doing and what I am driving?! If one can save the tyres and wear on one's car by not completing the excessive turning circle, then one shall road the road but still in a proper manner.

Ok, so what have we established: it's still a roundabout and should be treated as one!

Most drivers know to treat the mini-rounabouts in the same fashion as normal ones - the worst thing you can do is drive the wrong way around a roundabout. In essence I don't mean bee-line for your exit on the opposite side of the painted circle (which I don't) - if you do, then you're breaking the law if you do!

jpd

Not too much noise about the roundabout, please or someone will suggest putting traffic lights on it!

Shazerina

When is a roundabout not a roundabout?! I didn't expect my comment to generate a lively discussion! And I have learned a lot from reading!
I genuinely assumed/presumed that the same rules applied to these 'mini' roundabouts as do to 'mega' (?!) roundabouts... Otherwise, why bother putting them in place?

ckeego

The real question is why so much money,time and disruption was spent on this roundabout when the road leading down from Barry's Bridge looks like some stray artillery from the Glen of Imaal hit it?

The speed bumps outside the school are disintegrating and any time it rains the bus stop at the church floods and the road breaks up at the Delgany Hills estate entrance..

It is but a matter of time before a serious accident occurs because of the lack of upkeep on that road. The official concerned (see below) has admitted that there are now no funds remaining to address this

I have talked with the Area Engineer about this, the complaint has been logged-don't waste 15 minutes of your life on this guy-you won't get it back-one of the most arrogant,difficult untruthful pedants I have ever had the misfortune to talk to.:mad:

Langerland

ckeego wrote: »

The real question is why so much money,time and disruption was spent on this roundabout when the road leading down from Barry's Bridge looks like some stray artillery from the Glen of Imaal hit it?

The speed bumps outside the school are disintegrating and any time it rains the bus stop at the church floods and the road breaks up at the Delgany Hills estate entrance..

It is but a matter of time before a serious accident occurs because of the lack of upkeep on that road. The official concerned (see below) has admitted that there are now no funds remaining to address this

I have talked with the Area Engineer about this, the complaint has been logged-don't waste 15 minutes of your life on this guy-you won't get it back-one of the most arrogant,difficult untruthful pedants I have ever had the misfortune to talk to.:mad:

One could be dubious about the whole thing and suggest that the junction/roundabout was done to help shift that little development plot on the corner faster!!!

It did have to be done though. Even though, I also agree with your other points.

Zoo4m8

ckeego wrote: »

The real question is why so much money,time and disruption was spent on this roundabout when the road leading down from Barry's Bridge looks like some stray artillery from the Glen of Imaal hit it?

The speed bumps outside the school are disintegrating and any time it rains the bus stop at the church floods and the road breaks up at the Delgany Hills estate entrance..

It is but a matter of time before a serious accident occurs because of the lack of upkeep on that road. The official concerned (see below) has admitted that there are now no funds remaining to address this

I have talked with the Area Engineer about this, the complaint has been logged-don't waste 15 minutes of your life on this guy-you won't get it back-one of the most arrogant,difficult untruthful pedants I have ever had the misfortune to talk to.:mad:

Would that be Mr H ? If so I endorse your sentiments 100% and would love to add mine but I'm afraid if I did I'd be looking at a ban..:)

ckeego

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Would that be Mr H ? If so I endorse your sentiments 100% and would love to add mine but I'm afraid if I did I'd be looking at a ban..:)

Correct..
I kept it as calm and to the point as I could but boy, did I leave that conversation agog that an official could be so dismissive of a report that concerned the safety of others.

Zoe zebra

<<snip>>

darklordsbane

I drive a van and sometimes would have a trailor hitched to it, that junction is a nightmare, I have lost count of the times I have almost caused a crash, the road to Kilcoole seems to be the worst as you are leaving the roundabout someone walks out onto the pedestrian crossing, you have to stop, not only is the back of the van close to the roundabout the trailor is still on it, at least on the uphill exit towards Bray you have a clear siteline of pedestrians coming towards the crossing

RosieJoe

Article in the Bray People, link

The NTA are not happy with the current layout of the Killincarrig Roundabouts.

They are of the opinion that it is not compliant with the National Cycle Manual, according to district engineer Ruairi O'Hanlon.

'They are of the opinion that the roundabouts should be raised in order to ensure vehicles go around them rather than over them, thereby reducing speeds and making them safer for cyclists,' he said.

A proposed alteration to the design so that the roundabouts are more in keeping with the NCM has been submitted to the NTA for approval.

Mr O'Hanlon said that he expects the NTA will pay for the work

Charlie-Bravo

So, more taxpayer money to be spent. I don't think there is enough space on the mini-roundabout (nearest Kilcoole) to even have a raised section - It makes no sense. The slightly larger mini-roundabout is going to be run over by most vehicles larger than a hatchback (longer wheelbase cars and trucks) too.

loyatemu

I assume it'll be some sort of "domed" section rather than actual kerbs - so you'll still be able to drive over it (slowly) but you'll be encouraged to go around.

Charlie-Bravo

I know what the intention is however I don't think it's going to make much of a difference on the smaller roundabout. If a driver bee-lines it, a slight dome is not going to make any difference.

ckeego

RosieJoe wrote: »

Article in the Bray People, link

Funny that..
It is the same Mr. O'Hanlon that comes in for the criticism above.

<mod edit: no personal attacks please>

Going for Local Council?
You'll go a long way, my son..

Surely he is ultimately responsible for the upkeep and compliance of that road/junctions?

I would be a lot more worried about cars travelling over the poor surface of the remainder of the Barry's Bridge-Killincarrig road rather than the roundabout.

Should it not be compulsory for say a housing developer to resurface the road if they dig it up as part of wiring/plumbing for a new development/heavy construction traffic?