Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Wrong usage in the lease

Options
  • 25-02-2015 5:55pm
    #1
    lipssa
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭


    Hi
    I found an unit to lease with a planning permission for take away/ restaurant, which I wanted to do! When my solicitor received the lease he found out that the usage in the lease was for a completely different type of business. We can not get the usage changed in the lease (the building is in receivership and nobody is willing to make the change). How risky is it for me to sign a lease with a wrong usage but a correct planning permission? I need to invest a certain amount of money to get the unit fit for use as it has never been used before so I am worried and receive conflicting information... I would love so much to open that business and I really think it would be successful but I am worried someone could ask for the closure. Any thoughts?
    Thanks a lot


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    AndyJB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭AndyJB


    lipssa wrote: »
    Hi
    I found an unit to lease with a planning permission for take away/ restaurant, which I wanted to do! When my solicitor received the lease he found out that the usage in the lease was for a completely different type of business. We can not get the usage changed in the lease (the building is in receivership and nobody is willing to make the change). How risky is it for me to sign a lease with a wrong usage but a correct planning permission? I need to invest a certain amount of money to get the unit fit for use as it has never been used before so I am worried and receive conflicting information... I would love so much to open that business and I really think it would be successful but I am worried someone could ask for the closure. Any thoughts?
    Thanks a lot

    Hi,
    Stay away from it unless you can get the lease changed!

    If the building is in receivership and you're confident that the business will work, would you be in a position to put in a bid to purchase it? How much would the monthly rental be vs a monthly mortgage? If you're in a position to purchase have a pal put the bids in. Call me cynical, but you don't want the auctioneer seeing you as being overly eager to buy!!!!

    The key to a profitable take away is location location location. Use this lease issue to take a step back and review all factors.... (lease v purchase) (location & potential foot fall) or is there any other properties worth looking at in the area?

    Best of luck.


  • Options
    #3
    lipssa
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭lipssa


    Hi
    Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately I can not purchase the unit...
    The guy I found to do the work and the estate agent are saying that the risk is extremely limited to open the unit with a wrong usage in the lease as nobody raised a complain when there was the notice for the planning permission... However I dont want to invest all my money and then be requested to close...
    There is no other unit in the area; take away are harder and harder to find...


  • Options
    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Pay a visit to the planning office for that locality and talk to the person in charge of change of use for premises.
    That person will be able to tell you if there is any risk that it won't get approved.

    Im not sure exactly how the process is working today in Ireland, but from my experience building houses when I have to do changes in planning permission etc the local office will send out letters to the neighbours notifying them of the proposal to change and if theres any objections. If you get some uncooperative neighbours this is where the risk lies. They might not necessarily be able to stop the change but they may put you to extra cost fighting their appeals and putting in place things that will satisfy their appeals and reach a compromise.


  • Options
    #5
    lipssa
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭lipssa


    Thanks. I got the planning permission approved but this did not result in a change of the use of the unit in the lease...


  • Options
    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lipssa wrote: »
    Thanks. I got the planning permission approved but this did not result in a change of the use of the unit in the lease...

    Yeah so go and talk to the planning authority and the person responsible for change of use permits. Its a different department then planning permission and a separate process.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    lipssa
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭lipssa


    all right, i did not know about it!!!! I ll go today to see what can be done then, thanks a lot


  • Options
    #8
    lipssa
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭lipssa


    So basically the planning office said that they can not do anything... They said that they have no issue with me running a take away as the permission was granted and they can not interfere in the legal documents between me and the landlord...
    Back to the question: Is this risky to sign if the usage is incorrect???


  • Options
    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Oh I see sorry I thought it was change of usage with the planning. That seems like a strange situation. Have you talked to the company handling the receivership? They would have the power to fix that problem for you I'd imagine, it sounds like its a simple amendment to a contract. If they weren't willing to do that for you, I'd say its too risky, a new owner could come in and pull the rug out from under your business.


  • Options
    #10
    lipssa
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭lipssa


    the management company said that they are not opposed to my project but dont feel they have the power to do a letter. The receivers does not reply to emails and according to the sollicitor they do not bother for very small units like that one. There is a new landlord and he agreed on me doing take away, he is the one who did the take away planning permission but he said he can not change the lease because it depends on the head lease...


  • Options
    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lipssa wrote: »
    the management company said that they are not opposed to my project but dont feel they have the power to do a letter. The receivers does not reply to emails and according to the sollicitor they do not bother for very small units like that one. There is a new landlord and he agreed on me doing take away, he is the one who did the take away planning permission but he said he can not change the lease because it depends on the head lease...

    So the building is in receivership, and the company managing that has given out a sub lease to this new landlord? Wouldn't that contradict what your lawyer said? Id be giving the receiver a call and get to the bottom of it. I would say they are obligated to answer your questions.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,793 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Receivers are by and large not obligated to answer anybody's questions, other than the owner and the charge-holder (the bank).

    OK, I will put my view. I have been involved in something slightly similar recently. If the situation is as you describe, and there is planning as you have described, I don't think it is all that risky. The local authority isn't going to come after you if you have planning permission, and the landlord most likely isn't going to come after you if you pay rent. You have personal relationships with the management company and that gives you some comfort that everything will be ok.

    The basic problem you have is if you end up with a new landlord or new agent and he doesn't like what you are doing. One option is to try to get the landlord to change the lease after you get in.

    I think you are wondering whether a member of the public can object to your trading on the basis that the lease is wrong. This is a legal question. I think I know the answer, but you really need to ask your solicitor. That is the type of advice he gets the big bucks for.

    A related question you may or may not be thinking of is whether another nearby tenant of the landlord can object and to what extent they could block you. This is probably a more complicated question, but again, it is basically a legal question and you need your solicitor's advice.

    There is no point in saying that there is no risk to this, and it really depends on your own capacity and appetite for risk.


  • Options
    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Receivers are by and large not obligated to answer anybody's questions, other than the owner and the charge-holder (the bank).

    OK, I will put my view. I have been involved in something slightly similar recently. If the situation is as you describe, and there is planning as you have described, I don't think it is all that risky. The local authority isn't going to come after you if you have planning permission, and the landlord most likely isn't going to come after you if you pay rent. You have personal relationships with the management company and that gives you some comfort that everything will be ok.

    The basic problem you have is if you end up with a new landlord or new agent and he doesn't like what you are doing. One option is to try to get the landlord to change the lease after you get in.

    I think you are wondering whether a member of the public can object to your trading on the basis that the lease is wrong. This is a legal question. I think I know the answer, but you really need to ask your solicitor. That is the type of advice he gets the big bucks for.

    A related question you may or may not be thinking of is whether another nearby tenant of the landlord can object and to what extent they could block you. This is probably a more complicated question, but again, it is basically a legal question and you need your solicitor's advice.

    There is no point in saying that there is no risk to this, and it really depends on your own capacity and appetite for risk.

    My thinking is that whoever has the power to change the lease needs to be contacted, otherwise the risk of someone else coming in and turfing the OP out is too high. I would suggest getting to the bottom of the ownership at the current time and figuring out a way to get this master lease changed. Maybe your right and the receiver isn't obligated to say anything. Maybe the bank isn't obligated either - I would have thought there was some regulations for this kind of thing that make them obligated, that maybe wishful thinking.
    But the person with the power to make the change needs to be approached, and if necessary charmed into helping the OP.
    I would say it could be a pretty stressful thing to have hanging over your head if your making nice money in a business that the rug could be pulled out.

    Imagine the business was making a fortune and a clever unscrupulous landlord, said hold on a sec, I could have that money by enforcing the lease clause!


  • Options
    #14
    lipssa
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭lipssa


    Thank you for your comment. I went to the sollicitor and in his view the risk is if I want to sell the unit before the lease is finished as I would need to find a new tenant that would accept the wrong usage in the lease as well. I was a bit worried that a competitor could make a complain but in the same time they did not make a complain during the planning permission process. I think I am going to take the risk, hopefully I wont regret it!
    Thank you all again who took the time to reply to my query.


Advertisement