Labour are 7% in the polls - So who here is voting for them &why

bpb101

Nearly 1 in every 10 people are saying they are support labour. (going by the polls)

So , Why would you vote for labour. What have they accomplished in the last 4 years that wants you to say hey, I want them for the next 6.

Just what to hear people thoughts on the matter

conorh91

bpb101 wrote: »

Nearly 1 in every 10 people are saying they are support labour. (going by the polls)

It's closer to 1 in 15.

Labour have one-third of the Dáil majority, one-third of the seats at Cabinet, and surely it follows that they only bear one-third of the responsibility for Government decisions: both positive and negative.

The overwhelming control of the country lies in the hands of Fine Gael.

I'm not going to list any virtues of the Labour party and of high welfare-rates because I disagree with Labour policy.

But at the same time, the traditional Labour voters (state dependents) who see Labour as sell-outs, would clearly have been worse-off (in the short term) under a Fine Gael majority

BoJack Horseman

- They kept welfare rates largely intact.
- The elderly are insulated from cuts like never before.
- No CR in the public service, stymieing reform.
- Allowing the restoration of previously unsustainable PS pay levels when gov borrowing drops back to a paltry €7bn per annum.
- bringing in a tax on property.

So, not bad.

Possibly more achievements than FG got.

doomzzod

Themselves and their families..

bpb101

conorh91 wrote: »

It's closer to 1 in 15.

Labour have one-third of the Dáil majority, one-third of the seats at Cabinet, and surely it follows that they only bear one-third of the responsibility for Government decisions: both positive and negative.

The overwhelming control of the country lies in the hands of Fine Gael.

I'm not going to list any virtues of the Labour party and of high welfare-rates because I disagree with Labour policy.

But at the same time, the traditional Labour voters (state dependents) who see Labour as sell-outs, would clearly have been worse-off (in the short term) under a Fine Gael majority

i know it does , i dont support fg or any party. fg are doing wellish in the polls while labour arent. just looking to hear people views on the matter

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

- They kept welfare rates largely intact.
- The elderly are insulated from cuts like never before.

pensioners still will have to pay 100 on water (at least) and around 200 plus on property tax = 300 , thats 2 weeks pension on the lowest threshold
If You are on a pension there is very limited things you can do ,to increase your income.

- No CR in the public service, stymieing reform.

CR??

- Allowing the restoration of previously unsustainable PS pay levels when gov borrowing drops back to a paltry €7bn per annum.

ps havent got any futher increase in pay only cuts since fg/lab came in
(with the exception of the slightly lower usc decrease at Christmas,which was for everybody)
but are still on a less pay than since before 2011.

- bringing in a tax on property.

trying to avoid this topics a bit , but ... The money raised from the property tax has gone to setting up irish water. In the lightly case Irish water fails , This was just a money flushed down the toilet.

titan18

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

- They kept welfare rates largely intact.
- The elderly are insulated from cuts like never before.
- No CR in the public service, stymieing reform.
- Allowing the restoration of previously unsustainable PS pay levels when gov borrowing drops back to a paltry €7bn per annum.
- bringing in a tax on property.

So, not bad.

Possibly more achievements than FG got.

Other than the tax on property, how are anyone of those good? Apologies, if I missed the sarcasm though.

BoJack Horseman

titan18 wrote: »

Other than the tax on property, how are anyone of those good? Apologies, if I missed the sarcasm though.

Good for Labour, an achievement on their part.

I don't draw opinion on them being good or ill for Ireland in general.

washman3

Hopefully, after the next G.E. the Labour party will be where they belong, consigned to the dustbin of history, joining the Greens and the PDs.
Their behaviour over the last 20 years has been shameful to say the least. Wait for the flight of the 'elder lemons' of the party coming up to election time, similar to FF before the last one when the cute rats left the sinking ship when the writing was on the wall.
Anything more than 2 seats will be considered a huge bonus.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a total wipeout similar to the Greens.

BoJack Horseman

bpb101 wrote: »

pensioners still will have to pay 100 on water (at least) and around 200 plus on property tax = 300 , thats 2 weeks pension on the lowest threshold

Which amounts to about 1-2% reduction on the cost of keeping a pensioner to the state.

With circa €120,000,000,000 accumulated by the state in the last decade in fresh debt, a 1-2% reduction is unmatched by any other welfare segment.

Labour, having the S/W brief made sure the burden of cuts was not evenly spread.

CR??

Compulsory redundancy.

ps havent got any futher increase in pay only cuts since fg/lab came in

Pay cuts are reversed when overall government deficit drops below 3% of GDP.

All going to plan this will be so by year end.
So despite 3% of GDP requiring about €5bn in borrowing, pay restoration all round....
Labour were pleased to get this as a bone to throw to PS workers & unions.

This was just a money flushed down the toilet.

People say all taxes are flushed down the toilet.

Either way, taxes of property are something any person with a lefy-leaning bone in their body should support, Labour is no different.

BoJack Horseman

washman3 wrote: »

Hopefully, after the next G.E. the Labour party will be where they belong, consigned to the dustbin of history, joining the Greens and the PDs.
Their behaviour over the last 20 years has been shameful to say the least. Wait for the flight of the 'elder lemons' of the party coming up to election time, similar to FF before the last one when the cute rats left the sinking ship when the writing was on the wall.
Anything more than 2 seats will be considered a huge bonus.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a total wipeout similar to the Greens.

Considering the fact that labour, at their very very lowest ebb still out-poll the entire range of far-left parties by 2:1, predicting their elimination entirely looks stupid.

Labour out polls the socialist party alone by about 10:1.
If labour are finished, what does that make the SP mob?

tayto lover

Labour are finished.
They turned their backs on their own voters and what Labour stood for.

I used to always vote Labour. Never again.

titan18

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Good for Labour, an achievement on their part.

I don't draw opinion on them being good or ill for Ireland in general.

Ah,I get you

Cookie_Monster

titan18 wrote: »

Other than the tax on property, how are anyone of those good? Apologies, if I missed the sarcasm though.

They're good for the group affected and help garner votes in return for favouring those groups.

Brussels Sprout

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

- They kept welfare rates largely intact.
- The elderly are insulated from cuts like never before.
- No CR in the public service, stymieing reform.
- Allowing the restoration of previously unsustainable PS pay levels when gov borrowing drops back to a paltry €7bn per annum.
- bringing in a tax on property.

So, not bad.

Possibly more achievements than FG got.

Yes they thought that they had feathered their bed quite well with the above. However, they have been blind-sided by the property tax and Irish water sagas so aren't getting any thanks for anything else.

Brussels Sprout

tayto lover wrote: »

Labour are finished.
They turned their backs on their own voters and what Labour stood for.

I used to always vote Labour. Never again.

Are their own voters not middle class public sector workers?

The poor deserted them long ago for the likes of Sinn Fein, the Socialists, People Before Profit and left leaning independents.

FreudianSlippers

If my choice was between SF and Labour I'm not sure what I'd do.

On one hand you have a party (SF) with no viable economic policy and a slightly too left for me social policy;
On the other you have a party (Lab) with an economic policy that is viable but I fundamentally disagree with it and a social policy that is far too left for me.

I don't think either get a preference from me in the next GE, but on the basis that SF has no viable economic policy, I'd choose Labour out of the 2.

Idbatterim

Labour have one-third of the Dáil majority, one-third of the seats at Cabinet, and surely it follows that they only bear one-third of the responsibility for Government decisions: both positive and negative.

The overwhelming control of the country lies in the hands of Fine Gael.

I'm not going to list any virtues of the Labour party and of high welfare-rates because I disagree with Labour policy.

But at the same time, the traditional Labour voters (state dependents) who see Labour as sell-outs, would clearly have been worse-off (in the short term) under a Fine Gael majority

Labour being on 7% long story short, is because the people that voted for them have the critical analysis of a school child for the most part, it was all the bankers fault, the politicians etc. I am delighted I will have reboot to vote for instead of FG, as I feel FG gave Labour way too much leeway, they played a blinder (to the detriment of the country and everyone ultimately) although as Bojack mentioned in the short term, some that voted for them MAY have gained.

IMO FG nearly had the numbers to go it alone, they went in with Labour who were charged with welfare and public sector reform, the two biggest problem areas and areas of expenditure, Labour ensured the reform and cuts were kept at an absolute minimum.

And then we have those shouting the loudest who voted for Labour in their droves I imagine, you voted for an anti enterprise, anti work party, that wanted to extend the austerity budgets, you then wonder where the jobs are? try connecting the dots the next time...


When what we should have been doing is getting our heads down and working to get out of this mess as quickly as possible, look at where that baster case Greece is at, anyone here fancy another decade minimum of nothing but recession talk, the blame game, infighting etc?

For Reals

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Are their own voters not middle class public sector workers?

The poor deserted them long ago for the likes of Sinn Fein, the Socialists, People Before Profit and left leaning independents.

I know academics who vote Sinn Fein, I know blue collar too. The same for every party. It's a little disingenuous to state the poor base their political beliefs purely on their pocket, that's more FG and FF supporters, no? I would suggest those who feel disenfranchised, politically or otherwise, be they poor or not are shifting away from parties who perpetuate this broken system, such as FG or FF despite any populism driven by the media of the day.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Labour being on 7% long story short, is because the people that voted for them have the critical analysis of a school child for the most part, it was all the bankers fault, the politicians etc. I am delighted I will have reboot to vote for instead of FG, ...

Ignorance aside, what's missing here is some people vote for the greater good. Maybe you are not a pensioner, but would want them to be comfortable. Maybe you are fortunate enough to be employed but would hate for children to go to bed hungry just so you can have a lower level motor tax?

Labour needs a reboot. It's run by a little group on middle class third level graduates, non-elected, with an idea of what their members should want, rather than may actually want. These people shape policy and feed it down to those in the trenches as it were. All the Joan's and Eamon's have a pool of these people colouring policy and party direction.
That seems to work for Fine Gael, but if you're a party supposedly representing everyone and giving a leg up to the working poor, you just can't operate that way.

El_Duderino 09

This is what happens if you go into coalition as the minority party. They might be a third of the government but I'd say their influence is less than a third overall. Their job is to get as much of their own policy through and then sign off on whatever the main government party wants regardless of what they think of it. That's how it works.

What happened to the PDs and the greens isn't fair. I think labour have done a decent job so I would vote for them again.

With a few notable exceptions I think this whole government has done a great job of polishing that turd for the last few years so maybe I'm not representative of the general population.

Manach

On OP's Q. While my stance is conservative, I had previously voted for Labour with a PR #2 vote in elections. This was because of the TD representative had a genunine connection to the working types and the party did seem try and ensure they had a voice. Now the present party has morphed into pro-establishment entity, whose
economic aims seems to be maximising extraction of money while paying a part of it back to special interests to purchase elections.
They lost their way and working votes.

Icepick

They were always going to lose the loony left votes.
Social democrats still vote for them and for a good reason. They - to my anguish - actually managed to keep Ireland's economy still too socialist. That the loony left don't see that speaks more about their sense of entitlement and unrealistic expectations than about Labour's successes:
unions are still too strong
public service only saw cosmetic reforms
minimum wage was increased
welfare was not reformed or significantly cut
mortgage defaults not tackled

sarumite

tayto lover wrote: »

Labour are finished.
They turned their backs on their own voters and what Labour stood for.

I used to always vote Labour. Never again.

Their own voters expected them to be absolute miracle workers. When they failed to achieve the impossible, their voters turned their backs on labour in favour of a bunch populist marxists promising them jelly and ice cream for life in exchange for a vote. Its pathetic how fickle some voters are!

Galwayguy35

No, never voted for them.

Labour were never that popular outside urban areas anyway, Lorainne Higgins found that out last time around and Keaveney saw the writing on the wall as well when he jumped ship.

Chances are Labour will be down to single figures in the next Dáil.

tayto lover

sarumite wrote: »

Their own voters expected them to be absolute miracle workers. When they failed to achieve the impossible, their voters turned their backs on labour in favour of a bunch populist marxists promising them jelly and ice cream for life in exchange for a vote. Its pathetic how fickle some voters are!

I and many others voted Fine Gael the last time.
When did they turn Marxist?

Icepick

tayto lover wrote: »

I used to always vote Labour. Never again.

tayto lover wrote: »

I and many others voted Fine Gael the last time.

:rolleyes:

tayto lover

Icepick wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You need to go back to previous posts.
I used to vote Labour but not lately i.e 90's as they lost their identity.
Not so hard to understand if you try.

sarumite

tayto lover wrote: »

I and many others voted Fine Gael the last time.
When did they turn Marxist?

If you voted for FG before Labour even went into government, then you are not what I would consider Labours traditional voters....since labours traditional voters traditionally vote for labour.

sarumite

tayto lover wrote: »

You need to go back to previous posts.
I used to vote Labour but not lately i.e 90's as they lost their identity.
Not so hard to understand if you try.

So it is probably close to 20 years since you last voted for labour? As i suspected, not a traditional labour voter so.

tayto lover

sarumite wrote: »

If you voted for FG before Labour even went into government, then you are not what I would consider Labours traditional voters....since labours traditional voters traditionally vote for labour.

Labour changed so i changed too.

sarumite

tayto lover wrote: »

Labour changed so i changed too.

A generation of voters have grown up since you left labour. When I said labour voters have turned their back on labour in favour of marxist populists I was referring to people who actually voted for labour.

tayto lover

sarumite wrote: »

A generation of voters have grown up since you left labour. When I said labour voters have turned their back on labour in favour of marxist populists I was referring to people who actually voted for labour.

I left them after their stint in Govt with FF.
I think they only retained 16 of their 33 seats then.
I think that was in '93 and i had been voting for them for over 20 years.

washman3

After todays revelations in the Sunday Independent anyone who votes Labour in the next election will deserve everything they get.
Sickening in the extreme.

tayto lover

washman3 wrote: »

After todays revelations in the Sunday Independent anyone who votes Labour in the next election will deserve everything they get.
Sickening in the extreme.

Didn't see the papers today.
Could you give the gist please?

washman3

tayto lover wrote: »

Didn't see the papers today.
Could you give the gist please?

The retirement pensions of the current Labour cabinet ministers will cost €15 million.
That's a pension that they have never contributed to, unlike the ordinary Joe Soap whose pension was more than likely wiped out since 2008.

BANANA REPUBLIC.!!!
The 'party of work' my h##e

michael999999

washman3 wrote: »

The retirement pensions of the current Labour cabinet ministers will cost €15 million.
That's a pension that they have never contributed to, unlike the ordinary Joe Soap whose pension was more than likely wiped out since 2008.

BANANA REPUBLIC.!!!
The 'party of work' my h##e

Bloody leeches!

Larbre34

Alan Kelly is an appalling speaker. Ive heard transition year students debate with more gravitas and conviction.

nesf

Eh, the 7% don't have to like Labour, they just need to dislike the rest more. Which, to be fair, isn't that hard.

BoJack Horseman

tayto lover wrote: »

I and many others voted Fine Gael the last time.
When did they turn Marxist?

About 1/4 of those who voted FG at the last GE have switched allegiances to SF.

professore

washman3 wrote: »

The retirement pensions of the current Labour cabinet ministers will cost €15 duringmillion.
That's a pension that they have never contributed to, unlike the ordinary Joe Soap whose pension was more than likely wiped out since 2008.

BANANA REPUBLIC.!!!
The 'party of work' my h##e

Hardly revelations ... All the parties are like that. They asked Enda Kenny if he was worth his salary during the week, you could ask them all that. Labour is the political wing of the public sector.

professore

I think those on welfare and in the public sector should be voting for them. Considering the mess Ireland was and still is in, cuts of up to 50% in staff and payments should have been the order of the day. Nothing like that happened. So while I'd never vote for them, I think they did a good job for their core voters. Ironically they won't see it like that.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

In my opinion the vote that labour have lost since the last election had migrated to the "we don't want to pay for anything ever" brigades of sf, AAA and super lefty independents. Realistic labour supporters with a bit more cop on can see that the party, by and large, have protected the interests of the low paid and the elderly and are working on sweetening up the public sector with pending pay increases. I'd imagine their 7% comes from that cohort and, barring any major political blunders, I'd say they will either hold the 7 or potentially turn it into 12-15% depending on how generous the next budget is to the their electoral base.

Chips Lovell

I'd agree with the analysis that they have, so far at least, done fairly well in looking out for their core voters, guarding social welfare entitlements, protecting public sector workers, getting a property tax in. That still doesn't mean they won't lose seats the next time out because the protest vote will desert them and move to other parties. In fairness though, there's not much Labour can do about that. Gilmore could have turned water into wine and a lot of people wouldn't have been happy.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Alan Kelly is an appalling speaker. Ive heard transition year students debate with more gravitas and conviction.

Abraham Lincoln was a poor public speaker, but it didn't stop him unifying his country against right-wing turnip munchers.

I come from the same area as Kelly and I can tell you he is positively venerated by many people in that place. Kelly was raised in a local authority house near Lough Derg, as Kelly himself as spoken about, and his family experienced financial hardship. But he and his brother pulled themselves up by their boot straps. One is now a Manhattan CEO with links to the Clintons, the other is a Government minister who's only in his 30s.

What I like about Kelly is his commitment to social justice, but not in the turgid, loquacious way which is the usual currency of Labour politicians. When Kelly talks about the Labour movement, he knows what he is talking about. I'm afraid many of his colleagues have much shorter memories, and a much more cynical view of politics.

Icepick

sarumite wrote: »

Their own voters expected them to be absolute miracle workers. When they failed to achieve the impossible, their voters turned their backs on labour in favour of a bunch populist marxists promising them jelly and ice cream for life in exchange for a vote. Its pathetic how fickle some voters are!

And the same will happen to SF if they are in the next government.
You just need to look at the North to see that there wouldn't be a socialist revolution.

nesf

Icepick wrote: »

And the same will happen to SF if they are in the next government.
You just need to look at the North to see that there wouldn't be a socialist revolution.

This the people seem to be rather thick about. Going into power as a minority partner will be very damaging for SF, expect them to delay and try and build up that core cohort as much as possible before going to avoid risking collapsing back to pre 2011 figures of single digit seats.

happy_knome

professore wrote: »

I think those on welfare and in the public sector should be voting for them. Considering the mess Ireland was and still is in, cuts of up to 50% in staff and payments should have been the order of the day. Nothing like that happened. So while I'd never vote for them, I think they did a good job for their core voters. Ironically they won't see it like that.

completely agree and i too would never vote for labour

labour have achieved a huge amount

they have largely protected public sector pay , pensions and social wellfare entitlements

they have ushered in major change in social policy , abortion policy was reformed significantly and we are about to make legal gay marriage in a few months

im truly perplexed at their current poll and can only put it down to the fickleness of liberal voters

happy_knome

Icepick wrote: »

And the same will happen to SF if they are in the next government.
You just need to look at the North to see that there wouldn't be a socialist revolution.

unionists have a lot more political principal and rigour than the political class down here , irish people are centre left in outlook , ulster protestants are very definately centre right

were SF as big down here , the country would be very different than northern ireland

professore

I wish there was a party half as good as Labour at protecting the interests of the working poor and struggling self employed. Those two groups in society literally pay for everything, aside from the working wealthy of course, who DO pay a big whack of taxes despite the propaganda from the Sindo. Ironically FG are the closest thing we have .... or the Troika !

Whatever about Labour, if SF get into a position that FG are in at the moment the country will well and truly go down the tubes. They seem to think they can magic up money from everywhere - even worse than Labour.

Idbatterim

I wish there was a party half as good as Labour at protecting the interests of the working poor and struggling self employed ... ironically FG are the closest thing we have .... or the Troika !

you echo my sentiments exactly. I can only hope Lucinda and reboot are a viable option for me come election time, I voted FG last time and will give them a begrudging vote if no alternative emerges...

Grab All Association

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

- They kept welfare rates largely intact.
- The elderly are insulated from cuts like never before.
- No CR in the public service, stymieing reform.
- Allowing the restoration of previously unsustainable PS pay levels when gov borrowing drops back to a paltry €7bn per annum.
- bringing in a tax on property.

So, not bad.

Possibly more achievements than FG got.

That's not exactly true.

JSA and SWA for ages 22-24 was cut from €144 to €100 in budget 2014 and from €188 to €144 for 25 year olds.

Budget 2013 they tried to cut disability allowance to €144/100 for under 25s and abolish it for under 18s.

BTEA 18-25 was cut from €188 to €160

nesf

professore wrote: »

I wish there was a party half as good as Labour at protecting the interests of the working poor and struggling self employed. Those two groups in society literally pay for everything, aside from the working wealthy of course, who DO pay a big whack of taxes despite the propaganda from the Sindo. Ironically FG are the closest thing we have .... or the Troika !

How do you define working poor? As in low waged or little left after debt etc?