Ireland vs England, Sunday 1st March 3pm; RTE/BBC

Kankan14

bilston wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks the Cole/Healy incident is worth revisiting? IMO Cole's head makes an unnatural move towards Healy's face as they come together. I admit slow motion replays make these things look a lot worse.

Would be silly to cite him for that. As you said slow motion multiplies the severity of it tenfold. If you start picking up things like that there would be 8-10 citings every game imo.

ThisRegard

Just watching the BBC post match analysis now and they highlighted something I never noticed in real time. When Murray was coming into the ruck he immediately signaled to Henshaw as to where he was putting the ball. His decision making was really good today.

And Woodward is full of praise for Ireland.

keith16

keith16 wrote: »

Our winning streak will inevitably come to an end but please make it anyone other than Wales.

i think something like 3 of our next 5 matches are agains them and the other two we are unlikely to lose so if we are going to lose before the world cup its likely to wales

Swiwi.

bilston wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks the Cole/Healy incident is worth revisiting? IMO Cole's head makes an unnatural move towards Healy's face as they come together. I admit slow motion replays make these things look a lot worse.

If you look carefully you can see him closing his eyes a split second beforehand thus a watertight case of a deliberate and heinous act.

Nah, I think you are the only one there Bilston. And the lad who gave you a thanks.

English Lurker

On slightly more sober reflection, I think the most impressive thing about today's Irish performance is that it was the same things as happened the game before... and before that... and the autumn... I can't think there's any coaches love more than consistency, being able to know what players will do, and Schmidt's really got that. Feel the try was a good example of that - its the sort of opportunism and quick thinking you get from Murray every match.

Bit of chat before the game about the Irish tight five being a little out of sorts, won't be before the next one. Feel Rory Best in particular deserves singling out for industry and just being bloody difficult to play again but they all did well.

Henshaw I think came of age today - not just due to the try (although everyone will say it) or the support run and toe poke that led to Alex Goode's wonder escape - but the footwork, the physicality with which he met Vunipola. I know he's been doing that stuff, he just seemed to be doing it that little bit better.

Will be interesting to see you against Wales - think your biggest enemy that day will be the pressure, for all most of this Ireland team have plenty of final experience.

Deleted User wrote: »

We bossed that game, we bossed a bigger and more powerful team and they never really looked like scoring.

I apologise for being a bore on the subject but we're not bigger than you. The Ireland team that played Italy was heavier than the England team that played Wales, albeit by 5kg. I am, alas, too lazy to work out accurate figures for today but given the largely unchanged nature of the teams I doubt they were much more than 5kg off each other either way.

Peregrine

ThisRegard wrote: »

Just watching the BBC post match analysis now and they highlighted something I never noticed in real time. When Murray was coming into the ruck he immediately signaled to Henshaw as to where he was putting the ball. His decision making was really good today.

Yeah, you can see it here at 1:18.

Ardillaun

Stheno wrote: »

He has. Did you see the state of his shirt at half time? It's ripped to pieces

Magical powers. He just seems to materialize to make the tackle when a runner gets through.

Borders no.2

For me there were a couple of key moments. England showing unbelievable arrogance in going for the corner at 6-3 and Devin Toner robbing the subsequent lineout was a massive moment and the scrum penalty Ireland won early in the 2nd half.

Again we were hanging on a bit near the end but had enough of a cushion. Wales in Cardiff will be a big one. Was hoping France would rule them out of contention yesterday but they performed well up front. Was surprised how well Samson Lee did.

The key for Ireland really is Sexton being fit for next weekend.

JoeTheMuss

England

Superb performance from the Irish players and management, you couldn,t criticize any of the players today.Thought the English were lucky not to get a yellow card for constant cynical infringing in the mauls and rucks. Wales will be tough to beat in Cardiff but I feel this team can push on and improve even more.

aimee1

Nim wrote: »

Yeah, you can see it here at 1:18.

POM on the far side was excellent in this. Picked his moment then secured the ball then a small carry to allow the rest of the lads to get back to position. Zebo made two big plays here too.

JJ lucky to escape yellow for the tackle on RK, hint of swinging arm around the neck. If Henshaw doesnt score he might have got binned.

Bridge93

England

I feel we will need every bit of this two week break to recover. A lot of casualties and tired bodies it seems

aimee1

JoeTheMuss wrote: »

Superb performance from the Irish players and management, you couldn,t criticize any of the players today.Thought the English were lucky not to get a yellow card for constant cynical infringing in the mauls and rucks. Wales will be tough to beat in Cardiff but I feel this team can push on and improve even more.

Our discipline today was excellent, with halfpenny on the pitch it needs to be again in 2 weeks.

Tim Robbins

aimee1 wrote: »

POM on the far side was excellent in this. Picked his moment then secured the ball then a small carry to allow the rest of the lads to get back to position. Zebo made two big plays here too.

JJ lucky to escape yellow for the tackle on RK, hint of swinging arm around the neck. If Henshaw doesnt score he might have got binned.

Anyone else think Murray plays the ball on the ground at 1.01?

Note: At the same ruck. Ireland No 20 comes in from the side. England No 8. comes in from the side. Your man who comes in the middle of ruck hits the scrummie who hasn't got the ball.

bilston

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Wales won't be a tougher game than England, Australia or SA. I'm extremely confident.

The game being away from home is what will make it more of a challenge IMO.

S12b

2 thoughts after today:

1) How good has our defence been? 23 points conceded in 3 games for an average of only 8 points per game. England have conceded 52 and Wales 57.

2) Has Robbie Henshaw already become one of our most important players? We have good depth in lots of positions - prop, backrow, wing - but if we lost Robbie, I think the replacement would be quite a step down, be it D'Arcy, Madigan or Marshall....our defence would certainly lose some intensity. Henshaw topped the tackle count again today.

Tim Robbins

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Wales won't be a tougher game than England, Australia or SA. I'm extremely confident.

It won't be as physical. If anything we're the stronger pack. Will be interesting to see how the kicking game works with North et al.

Baggy Trousers

S12b wrote: »

2 thoughts after today:

1) How good has our defence been? 23 points conceded in 3 games for an average of only 8 points per game. England have conceded 52 and Wales 57.

2) Has Robbie Henshaw already become one of our most important players? We have good depth in lots of positions - prop, backrow, wing - but if we lost Robbie, I think the replacement would be quite a step down, be it D'Arcy, Madigan or Marshall....our defence would certainly lose some intensity. Henshaw topped the tackle count again today.

As a Connacht man, I thought Robbie was everywhere and immense. His display today was legendary.

Baggy Trousers

ThisRegard wrote: »

Just watching the BBC post match analysis now and they highlighted something I never noticed in real time. When Murray was coming into the ruck he immediately signaled to Henshaw as to where he was putting the ball. His decision making was really good today.

And Woodward is full of praise for Ireland.

Murray was class and is the best 9 in world rugby.

BoardsMember

Best game I have seen Zebo play, fair play to him.

Best's best game in some time, great to see him step up, particularly required having lost SOB. Was always there in defense and attack, class performance.

Back row, and in fairness all 15, were immense at the breakdown, we continually blew England away. Amazing to see Haskell, in such domineering form, compeletely neutralised. Same with Rodber and Vunipola.

All 4 props were awesome. Now very excited about Henshaw, its taken me a while to catch up I'll admit, his physicality is very impressive.

Murray continues to improve, another world class performance, we are so lucky to have those two half backs. Sexton was Sexton, he is a legend, no other word for it, a winner through and through.

Very very proud to be able to call myself Irish today.

Baggy Trousers

Whats the story with Sexton and O'Brien, does anyone know?

thomond2006

England

There was a millisecond, a millisecond, when I thought POC was going to gather the blocked box kick and run down the wing to score.

Think about it people. Our lives would be complete.

TheCitizen

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Wales won't be a tougher game than England, Australia or SA. I'm extremely confident.

It's an away match and we've been picking up injuries. Ireland are in pole position for the Grand Slam but it will be a tough one in Cardiff.

Stheno

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Whats the story with Sexton and O'Brien, does anyone know?

Sexton had a hamstring twinge so they took him off SOB is going through the concussion protocols

thomond2006 wrote: »

There was a millisecond, a millisecond, when I thought POC was going to gather the blocked box kick and run down the wing to score.

Think about it people. Our lives would be complete.

I hoped and hoped, and urged him on
That would have been the icing on the icing

Dangerous Man

I don't usually post in the Rugby forum but had to drop by and share my thoughts on today.

It was an interesting game - I think a neutral wouldn't have found it as entertaining as those of us emotionally involved. Ireland's kicking game, while effective, wasn't the prettiest (not that I care.)

I was surprised by England, I thought they'd be better than they were but Ireland were pretty clinical and applied their gameplan ruthlessly. Murray's kicking was on point today - he made breaks, didn't miss a pass - he was brilliant. I'd have given him MOTM but Henshaw was amazing too. For those interested, there are some interesting stats on the Six Nations page re: Henshaw. http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/home.php

The Grandslam is moving into sight at this point; I don't mean to disrespect Scotland, but if we can get past Wales, we should be okay. I don't know what the hell is going on with the Scots but they need to get their act together.

So I'm very pleased with the win but I think it's fair to say that Ireland's game will have to change if we're to compete at the world cup. That game we saw today will not beat New Zealand.

awec

Ireland are amazing. Joe Schmidt is amazing.


Amazing.

aimee1

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Whats the story with Sexton and O'Brien, does anyone know?

JS said sexton was just a twinge, and was precautionary.

SOB they arent sure what happened but starts RTP tomorrow or tuesday. They thing it was clash of heads but nothing clear in video

TheCitizen

thomond2006 wrote: »

There was a millisecond, a millisecond, when I thought POC was going to gather the blocked box kick and run down the wing to score.

Think about it people. Our lives would be complete.

He almost had it in his grasp, was too close to the touchline and it rolled out.

BoardsMember

There was a second when I thought Jonny was done again, them exiting their 22 with Vinpola I think, Jonny took one to the head. Still not convinced he wasn't a bit dazed.

aimee1

Dangerous Man wrote: »

The Grandslam is moving into sight at this point; I don't mean to disrespect Scotland, but if we can get past Wales, we should be okay. I don't know what the hell is going on with the Scots but they need to get their act together.

Scotland are just clueless. No leadership on the field.

Dwarf.Shortage

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The skill level in U12 GAA is way higher than U12 Rugby (from what I have seen). Where Rugby really gets going is at schools level. By U12, a decent GAA player can kick off both feet and a do range of stuff to a pretty high standard.

I'm sure he was playing a bit over the summer etc. maybe at a lower level.

I'm an avid GAA man and I would agree wholeheartedly that the prevalence of a GAA background in our back line is conducive to to said back line being strong in the air but your particular point is straw clutching of the highest order.

BoardsMember

aimee1 wrote: »

Scotland are just clueless. No leadership on the field.

Absolutely, that's it in a nutshell.

Not sure I have ever seen a team in such dire need of a win as them.

Teferi

I thought Healy was fairly mixed today tbh. He mixed some excellent, key game moments in with a good few sloppy ones. In his first few minutes he was overeager to hit something and it made him a little headless.

aimee1

BoardsMember wrote: »

There was a second when I thought Jonny was done again, them exiting their 22 with Vinpola I think, Jonny took one to the head. Still not convinced he wasn't a bit dazed.

i think he copped an accidental finger to the eye

metrosity

Ireland are as tough as nails now, the way they need to be. That was a much harder win than it looked.

Only 2 things: Murray is a bit too trigger happy with the boot. It worked great for the try as it often does, but sometimes he kicks away possession. I'm just saying. England aren't great and in my opinion simply can't win a world cup, not fairly at least. But if you kick that much possession away against the AB's, you're going to be punished. I appreciate that they were tired.

Kearney is a shadow of his former self. I read online from another poster that used to be a fan of Kearney before he bulked up a bit more and lost his edge and I agree. His drop goal attempt from long distance today was poorly judged and obviously didn't work. Sure, we got away with it today but against a better team, you pay for that. I think he needs to focus more on his fitness and less on power to get back to being the 15 he once was.
For the Henshaw try, he cut inside and hit a brick wall (as he often does these days). There were numbers out wide and there was no need to complicate things. It's like he's over thinking, and not being his more natural instinctive self. Just run. If it's a 1:1 situation I can understand the need to weigh up the situation a bit, but in open play just run if you're a 15!

Wales next, and arguably the hardest test. But if Ireland play their best they can and will beat anyone this year - and what a year to be capable of that!!

Peregrine

S12b wrote: »

1) How good has our defence been? 23 points conceded in 3 games for an average of only 8 points per game. England have conceded 52 and Wales 57.

Very similar to the 22 points conceded this time last year, albeit against different opposition in different venues. After round 3, we had conceeded 6 to Scotland, 3 to Wales and 13 to England. We went on to concede a total of 49 points in the championship.

Edit: Apologies if that sounded like I was saying our defence is the same as last year. That wasn't what I meant.

aimee1

Teferi wrote: »

I thought Healy was fairly mixed today tbh. He mixed some excellent, key game moments in with a good few sloppy ones. In his first few minutes he was overeager to hit something and it made him a little headless.

I think we might see him start in cardiff. TOD and Jordi today were outstanding and with Ruddock also back in action we arent short in the backrow. Sextons hamstring is oh so important now though. The next in line are just so far off his level.

exgp

Before the match the pundits said that the English pack would be dominant; they weren't. Wales are a minor hurdle and Scotland should be a walk over and my €160 should mean that they're will be meat on my table on St Patrick's day.

Baggy Trousers

aimee1 wrote: »

JS said sexton was just a twinge, and was precautionary.

SOB they arent sure what happened but starts RTP tomorrow or tuesday. They thing it was clash of heads but nothing clear in video

Looked more than a twinge. Without Sexton, Wales will dominate.

Stheno

exgp wrote: »

Before the match the pundits said that the English pack would be dominant; they weren't. Wales are a minor hurdle and Scotland should be a walk over and my €160 should mean that they're will be meat on my table on St Patrick's day.

Imo we opened the door for Wales to challenge seriously today for the title.
They'll be well up for it.

I still think we'll win though

walshb

aimee1 wrote: »

Scotland are just clueless. No leadership on the field.

That doesn't mean that in Murrayfield they won't produce a game to really trouble us.They have upset us before. Folks seem to make out that we are somehow clearly superior to these teams.

A lot of the time it's the bounce of a ball that separates a win from a loss. This almost "entitlement" to win I hear from some grates me. We have two away games for a slam. A big ask, and nowhere near to a certainty.

Today we won because England stank, and were at 60 percent. That's the nonsense we have to listen to.

jacothelad

Larbre34 wrote: »

All Sexton. A genius....

Larbre34 wrote: »

He saw it, set it up and dropped it on a sixpence. Henshaw wonderful too of course

bilston wrote: »

Who'd have thought a back row consisting of O'Mahony, O'Donnell and Murphy would completely boss the English for 50 minutes?! I admit to being concerned about Murphy before the match but he was excellent and TOD was everywhere when he came on.

McGrath was very good as well, I would keep him in the starting team for Wales, although Samson Lee will be a tough opponent for him. That was one of Best's best games for Ireland, he was sub human at times and Ross had a strong game too and continues to justify his selection.

I thought Toner was very noticeable around the park and along with our legendary captain was part of a very strong lineout.

Murray and Sexton controlled things well, the odd iffy kick, but if you kick that much it's bound to happen, however we absolutely need Sexton to be fit for Wales.

Henshaw was rightly named man of the match, he was terrific. All the talk was of Joseph (was he even playing today!?) being the best centre in the championship to date, I think that debate has been put to bed now by Henshaw. His try was a great moment and I'll remember that for a long time. Hopefully the first of many for the young lad. Payne played very well, defensively solid but he ran bloody hard all day and while there were no line breaks he made yards every time he got the ball. People need to stop comparing these two to D'Arcy and BOD, they are completely different animals and are doing what they do very well.

Bowe has had better days but still worked tirelessly, Kearney and particularly Zebo were excellent.

The replacements all made their contributions.

Our game definitely moved up a gear today, there were definitely a few more "Schmidt" set plays on show. The move off the scrum on their line when Murphy switched with Kearney and the little pop to Henshaw by McGrath being prime examples. I was staggered by some of the negativity on this thread during the game and can only assume it was WUMs on a mission. We can still get better, our accuracy can improve a bit, but it is closer now that it has been for a while. We are getting better all the time, is Joe going to have this side peaking in six months time. Can you imagine?

Lads 10 wins in a row now. That is a great stat, however I feel the 11th will be the hardest. We may start praying that Sexton, SOB, Henshaw and Payne are fit. That said we have players who can come in for most of them. However Sexton is key! Neither Madigan nor Keatley are at his level, Jonny has to be fit.

There was a very cruel but very,very funny comment about him by a poster in the Guardian report on today's game. He reckoned that the BBC should have to pixelate Samson every time the camera picked him up.

metrosity

exgp wrote: »

Before the match the pundits said that the English pack would be dominant; they weren't. Wales are a minor hurdle and Scotland should be a walk over and my €160 should mean that they're will be meat on my table on St Patrick's day.

"Wales are a minor hurdle"

Sure they are ... whatever you say .. Kearney is over-thinking and is not the speedy 15 he once was. He keeps doing the same thing right now - running into a brick wall. Murray kicks away possession to much.

Great performance but could be better. England weren't and aren't anything special. As ever, they will win by cheating, kicking or muscle. That's about it... Let's not get too excited by beating them

If Ireland kicked possession away that much against the AB's, or another SH team for that matter, they would be punished.

finatron

walshb wrote: »

That doesn't mean that in Murrayfield they won't produce a game to really trouble us.They have upset us before. Folks seem to make out that we are somehow clearly superior to these teams.

A lot of the time it's the bounce of a ball that separates a win from a loss. This almost "entitlement" to win I hear from some grates me. We have two away games for a slam. A big ask, and nowhere near to a certainty.

Today we won because England stank, and were at 60 percent. That's the nonsense we have to listen to.

Ya very true Ireland keep on winning but struggling to score trys. Are half backs won the day Ireland played as a team England looked disjointed

Grandpa Hassan

Warren Gatland

Just back from the pub. Three thoughts. In increasing order of importance

Ireland's pack stood up and defied predictions of many

Ireland's backs has more imagination

But Ireland won, first and foremost, because of Schmidt. His interpretation of the refereeing was bang on. I have never seen a game with such a one sided penalty count in midfield. And that is down to Schmidts planning

Osborne

England fan here that was at the game.

A thoroughly disappointing game from us. I'm too annoyed to elaborate.

As for Ireland, I thought they wanted it more and were superior in all aspects of the game. I thought Murray was excellent and really stepped up. Henshaw was immense and I'm so glad he got his try as a Galway resident and Connacht fan.

I must also mention the crowd. I've been to many Eng vs Irl games both home and away but where I was sitting today were the most passionate, vocal and loyal fans I have ever encountered. I haven't seen the game on TV yet but the atmosphere was electric and I'm sure the team benefited from it.

So, all in all, the best team won and I don't feel the score reflects how much better Ireland were. I really hope you go onto win the GS and keep getting better before the WC.

As for England...back to the drawing board.

metrosity

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Just back from the pub. Three thoughts. In increasing order of importance

Ireland's pack stood up and defied predictions of many

Ireland's backs has more imagination

But Ireland won, first and foremost, because of Schmidt. His interpretation of the refereeing was bang on. I have never seen a game with such a one sided penalty count in midfield. And that is down to Schmidts planning

Ireland were imperious at the breakdown - nothing wrong there. In defense they were imperious. In attack, a bit blunt and not enough to beat SA or NZ on that display, but still very very good in defense.

shuffol

Hagz wrote: »

It's a load of crap to be honest. I wonder how much GAA these guys have actually player. Probably a couple of games at u13 level.

Tbh I wouldn't pay much heed to the handling aspect of things but timing your jump for when a ball is dropping is a big thing and I think GAA helps things in that regard. It is overstated though.

bilston

exgp wrote: »

Before the match the pundits said that the English pack would be dominant; they weren't. Wales are a minor hurdle and Scotland should be a walk over and my €160 should mean that they're will be meat on my table on St Patrick's day.

The pedant in me can't help but point out that St Patricks Day is four days before we play Scotland so don't be banking on that Irish stew just yet.

walshb

finatron wrote: »

Ya very true Ireland keep on winning but struggling to score trys. Are half backs won the day Ireland played as a team England looked disjointed

Yes, but that is just it. England may have looked disjointed because we didn't let them play. We did what we had to do. They came here and tried and they could not beat us. Fore some rugby fans and pundits it's not enough that we beat a nation that has so much more resources and so much more Rugby history than us. We can't enjoy it, and we look for reasons and excuses for us winning. It's pathetic.

I mentioned that Wales may well start favorites in two weeks and it was like I had said that Ireland should start favorites against Germany in Berlin in soccer. The official betting is a slight favorite to Ireland. Massive massive game for us to go there and beat the Welsh.

One of the panelists today had zero credit to give to those lads on the pitch. Not a smige of praise. Couldn't even think of something positive to say for Henshaw's try. Lads that not only put their bodies on the line, but their lives.

aimee1

walshb wrote: »

That doesn't mean that in Murrayfield they won't produce a game to really trouble us.They have upset us before. Folks seem to make out that we are somehow clearly superior to these teams.

A lot of the time it's the bounce of a ball that separates a win from a loss. This almost "entitlement" to win I hear from some grates me. We have two away games for a slam. A big ask, and nowhere near to a certainty.

Today we won because England stank, and were at 60 percent. That's the nonsense we have to listen to.

Scotland are lacking serious leadership. 1 minute to go yesterday they had a penalty and instead of going for safety of guaranteed lineout the 10 went for distance and missed touch. It just wouldnt happen with Ireland. Madigan today put in 2 great touchfinders but he made sure he found touch.

Then scotland gave away a needless penalty on halfway which gifted italy territory and a lineout, and the only way Italy would win the game was a lineout/maul/try

Two away games, neither will be easy, but both are certainly winnable for this irish team.