Ireland vs England, Sunday 1st March 3pm; RTE/BBC

walshb

aimee1 wrote: »

Two away games, neither will be easy, but both are certainly winnable for this irish team.

Absolutely we can win. I always have confidence that on our day we can hang with the best, but let's be real here. There are 15 other men hell bent on winning from the opposing team. That is far often forgotten, and we have this entitlement attitude to beat X/Y and Z attitude.

Wales on a bit of form will always be world class. It's their DNA. Scotland have upset us before, and with home advantage and them maybe wanting to avoid a wooden spoon, well, there you have it. Win/lose or draw I know our lads will make me proud.

metrosity

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but that is just it. England may have looked disjointed because we didn't let them play. We did what we had to do. They came here and tried and they could not beat us. Fore some rugby fans and pundits it's not enough that we beat a nation that has so much more resources and so much more Rugby history than us. We can't enjoy it, and we look for reasons and excuses for us winning. It's pathetic.

I mentioned that Wales may well start favorites in two weeks and it was like I had said that Ireland should start favorites against Germany in Berlin in soccer. The official betting is a slight favorite to Ireland. Massive massive game for us to go there and beat the Welsh.

One of the panelists today had zero credit to give to those lads on the pitch. Not a smige of praise. Couldn't even think of something positive to say for Henshaw's try. Lads that not only put their bodies on the line, but their lives.

Ahh, don't be so dramatic - that might be your insecurity. This Ireland team knows they're better than England because they are , by some way I might add. They worked very hard today. People like Hook will always be complaining but the fact is, Ireland need to be better than that against the 2 teams still ranked ahead of us. That's the facts.

Kearney- needs to stop running with no gamble, he's aimless, and cuts inside or misjudges plays, knocks on. Bowe knocked on too and had a pretty average day. Murray kicked away possession too much. I'm just saying. England were sub par, and they're really for the taking at this stage.

SA and NZ would have capitaised on our mistakes today, big time. We need to keep things in perspective.

BoardsMember

English line speed was immense all day, formidable calm heads all round to handle/clear/recycle as well as we did. The breakdown really was something special today. And all our players played a part, some immense clear outs.

aimee1

walshb wrote: »

One of the panelists today had zero credit to give to those lads on the pitch. Not a smige of praise. Couldn't even think of something positive to say for Henshaw's try. Lads that not only put their bodies on the line, but their lives.

Pope and COS made the best point of all today. JS is getting the best out of the TEAM and when players come in [TOD] at the last minute before kick off or 20 minutes into the game and fit in seamlessly.

Gits_bone

We won and I am delighted.

However, the kicking is rancid. It's like Jose Mourinhos Inter Milan v Barcelona in the Champions League semi a few years ago. Very defensive but effective, ugly to watch unless you only care about the result.

Last 20 mins of the game v France and now England have caused serious problems. We can't keep getting away with it like Pope said. We looked out on our feet as the commentators mentioned about Payne & Henshaw, so why does Murray give the ball to the opposition? It was the same v France when we were down to 14. Kicked it at every opportunity.

It's an ugly spectacle, intense but ugly. Wales v England was the best match of the championship so far. Great tries scored. I doubt Bowe will add many more to his Ireland tally unless he's playing against minnows which is a shame.

S12b

I'll just leave this here......did Joseph even touch the ball????

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/ireland-england-robbie-henshaw-jared-payne/15159

metrosity

BoardsMember wrote: »

English line speed was immense all day, formidable calm heads all round to handle/clear/recycle as well as we did. The breakdown really was something special today. And all our players played a part, some immense clear outs.

Yep, they were very good in defence, but indisciplined in broken play, coming in at the side etc. We killed them in the breakdown. We would have beaten them on a penalty count without tries.

Kearney at full tilt, would have passed out to the right wing and we would have gone over. As it was, he cut inside, hit a wall of white and that allowed Murray to dink one over the top for Henshaw. It was a bit greasy with the rain, so that might have been a factor.

Whosthis

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but that is just it. England may have looked disjointed because we didn't let them play. We did what we had to do. They came here and tried and they could not beat us. Fore some rugby fans and pundits it's not enough that we beat a nation that has so much more resources and so much more Rugby history than us. We can't enjoy it, and we look for reasons and excuses for us winning. It's pathetic.

I mentioned that Wales may well start favorites in two weeks and it was like I had said that Ireland should start favorites against Germany in Berlin in soccer. The official betting is a slight favorite to Ireland. Massive massive game for us to go there and beat the Welsh.

One of the panelists today had zero credit to give to those lads on the pitch. Not a smige of praise. Couldn't even think of something positive to say for Henshaw's try. Lads that not only put their bodies on the line, but their lives.

walshb

metrosity wrote: »

Ahh, don't be so dramatic - that might be your insecurity. This Ireland team knows they're better than England because they are , by some way I might add. They worked very hard today. People like Hook will always be complaining but the fact is, Ireland need to be better than that against the 2 teams still ranked ahead of us. That's the facts.

Kearney- needs to stop running with no gamble, he's aimless, and cuts inside or misjudges plays, knocks on. Bowe knocked on too and had a pretty average day. Murray kicked away possession too much. I'm just saying. England were sub par, and they're really for the taking at this stage.

SA and NZ would have capitaised on our mistakes today, big time. We need to keep things in perspective.

Insecurity? No. Being realistic, yes. Knowing that at the top level in world sport you are bound to have very competitive matches. Ireland have never been firm favorites to beat the likes of France and England and Wales. Yes, Italy and Scotland we have had the consistent measure of, but look that the win/loss record vs. the other three since 6 N began. Very tight.

SA and NZ are irrelevant. I am peaking about 6N. Since when have we ever been really expected to beat NZ and SA? Are we not allowed make rugby mistakes? Sure every team makes them. There has to be mistakes in sport for winners and losers.

England were sub par, why exactly? Because we beat them? Is that why we beat them? Ok, let us imagine them on "top form," who wins? Why can't we juts celebrate a fantastic win over England, the home of rugby with 50 million people in their country. Sub par or not it's a fantastic achievement.

metrosity

Gits_bone wrote: »

We won and I am delighted.

However, the kicking is rancid. It's like Jose Mourinhos Inter Milan v Barcelona in the Champions League semi a few years ago. Very defensive but effective, ugly to watch unless you only care about the result.

Last 20 mins of the game v France and now England have caused serious problems. We can't keep getting away with it like Pope said. We looked out on our feet as the commentators mentioned about Payne & Henshaw, so why does Murray give the ball to the opposition? It was the same v France when we were down to 14. Kicked it at every opportunity.

It's an ugly spectacle, intense but ugly. Wales v England was the best match of the championship so far. Great tries scored. I doubt Bowe will add many more to his Ireland tally unless he's playing against minnows which is a shame.

And it's not just Murray. Good 'ol Rob Keanrey has got too fond of garry owens. He's lost some if his mojo for sure.

Today, Ireland: Brilliant in defense and the breakdown. A bit fortunate in attack and could do better, but then again it was greasy out there.

efb

Was at a confirmation in London so was checking the score every 5 min on my iPhone - data roaming ftw! Funny rather than tug-of-war everyone was asking me what the score was!

Watching it now- recorded it- some performance from Ireland

walshb

Whosthis wrote: »

That it? It is a very tough and dangerous sport, and yes, it does involve a huge risk. Didn't Hook himself allude to this when he said he would be against his grandson playing the sport.

walshb

efb wrote: »

some performance from Ireland

Not at all. England were crap. They let us win!:pac:

KingBrian2

Great performance from Ireland. The English are always great to play against. Their matches are the most memorable. They are a worthy adversary and beating them is just so good.

efb

walshb wrote: »

Not at all. England were crap. They let us win!:pac:

Negative nelly!!! I've too much Jameson in me and far too happy to bite!

Lol!

Whosthis

walshb wrote: »

That it? It is a very tough and dangerous sport, and yes, it does involve a huge risk. Didn't Hook himself allude to this when he said he would be against his grandson playing the sport.

Thought it was an embarrassing comment and complete over exaggeration. That's all.

metrosity

walshb wrote: »

Insecurity? No. Being realistic, yes. Knowing that at the top level in world sport you are bound to have very competitive matches. Ireland have never been firm favorites to beat the likes of France and England and Wales. Yes, Italy and Scotland we have had the consistent measure of, but look that the win/loss record vs. the other three since 6 N began. Very tight.

SA and NZ are irrelevant. I am peaking about 6N. Since when have we ever been really expected to beat NZ and SA? Are we not allowed make rugby mistakes? Sure every team makes them. There has to be mistakes in sport for winners and losers.

England were sub par, why exactly? Because we beat them? Is that why we beat them? Ok, let us imagine them on "top form," who wins? Why can't we juts celebrate a fantastic win over England, the home of rugby with 50 million people in their country. Sub par or not it's a fantastic achievement.

Sorry, but I think you're living in the past. Ireland are #3 in the world and belong there - permanently in my opinion. 1-2 might still be a stretch.

Sexton's departure might well be the only reason Ireland dropped off the way they did. We could do with another leader on the park.

England are overrated, and will only win this world cup by being allowed to come in at the side. They were penalized for it today because Joubert put a stop to them but another ref - could be trouble..

duckysauce

England

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Have you had a look at the England bench?


Anyway,
Ireland 45% win chance.
England 55% win chance.

Even if Ireland are deserved winners and generally control the game they will only win by less than a score.
If England win with similar control they will win by 8-12. Ireland will be unable to chase them once England get more than a score ahead and the contest will be over.

By playing an ostensibly low risk game: of minimal/no off loads, no risky 3/4 moves, and kick everything in their own half, in a sense, Ireland are taking risks by gambling on making very few or no score conceding mistakes. But England will likely shade us in forward posession, particularly in the scoring zone, and letting in one or two tries will leave us unable to catch up. Our policy of winning turnover/pressure penalties, or kick recoveries to either score tries directly or by pulling the English defence short of men, will no yield enough points in that scenario. Joe, of course, being Mr. Preparation N Detail, will have plan B in situ to handle that, but the players are picked to maximise Plan-A, and not optimal for a change of tactic. And England are unlikely to concede a useful lead to a team trying to play a game that is not their preferred one.

Ireland 9 - 18 England.

I will still not give up on the championship though - take Wales by a reasonable margin, and on todays evidence, our pack could crush the Ecossais and we could run up enough of a score to have a shout at it.

yep they were class weren't they :P:P

walshb

efb wrote: »

Negative nelly!!! I've too much Jameson in me and far too happy to bite!

Lol!

I hope you know I am messing. Listening to some you would think we only won because England were crap.

walshb

metrosity wrote: »

Sorry, but I think you're living in the past. Ireland are #3 in the world and belong there - permanently in my opinion. 1-2 might still be a stretch.

Sexton's departure might well be the only reason Ireland dropped off the way they did. We could do with another leader on the park.

England are overrated, and will only win this world cup by being allowed to come in at the side. They were penalized for it today because Joubert put a stop to them but another ref - could be trouble..

Not living in the past, but not arrogant/naive enough to have the view that we deserve to beat and should beat the likes of France and England and Wales. And if we don't we should get slagged and criticised. Beating them doesn't shock me, but nor does losing to them. It's nip and tuck at the highest level. It was our 47th win vs. England today. Lost 74. The last loss was last year. I am not living in the past days when they used to regularly paste us.

efb

I just block out negative people - of I could do it as easily in real life I'd be sorted! Lol

ThisRegard

Stheno wrote: »

Imo we opened the door for Wales to challenge seriously today for the title.

We didn't, they opened it themselves by beating France yesterday.

walshb

efb wrote: »

I just block out negative people - of I could do it as easily in real life I'd be sorted! Lol

Time to out me on ignore then?:p

walshb

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Great performance from Ireland. The English are always great to play against. Their matches are the most memorable. They are a worthy adversary and beating them is just so good.

That's the spirit....

errlloyd

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I remember playing Rugby with a few lads who went to Rugby schools and only played rugby and their kicking was poor. Whereas most GAA / Soccer heads find it easy to kick a Rugby ball.

Undoubtedly the guys who play a sport which involves kicking balls all day will be better at kicking and catching balls, regardless of the shape of the ball. My initial point was that it was probably at the expense of other skills. Indeed anecdotally whenever I played rugby with guys who played other sports in PE they were fairly useless and passing, tackling, rucking etc etc.

hadoken13 wrote: »

Nonsense? So having a GAA background adds nothing to a backs development in rugby?

It adds the ability to catch the ball in specific situations, and potentially to kick the ball in specific situations, and nothing else. People say Kearney is an example of a player benefiting from his GAA background, and sure he's great in the air, and he can kick. But Kearney is often bemoaned for his passing and tackling?

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The skill level in U12 GAA is way higher than U12 Rugby (from what I have seen). Where Rugby really gets going is at schools level. By U12, a decent GAA player can kick off both feet and a do range of stuff to a pretty high standard.

Like I'd just disagree with this based on what I have seen and we'd get nowhere. Whenever I watch u12 gaa I just see the ball on the ground all the time.

ThisRegard wrote: »

I think he played up to U21 hurling in a county semi or final or something like that. He was a relatively late starter to rugby.

I think you're probably mixing him up with Tomas O Leary.

aimee1

walshb wrote: »

Insecurity? No. Being realistic, yes. Knowing that at the top level in world sport you are bound to have very competitive matches. Ireland have never been firm favorites to beat the likes of France and England and Wales. Yes, Italy and Scotland we have had the consistent measure of, but look that the win/loss record vs. the other three since 6 N began. Very tight.

SA and NZ are irrelevant. I am peaking about 6N. Since when have we ever been really expected to beat NZ and SA? Are we not allowed make rugby mistakes? Sure every team makes them. There has to be mistakes in sport for winners and losers.

England were sub par, why exactly? Because we beat them? Is that why we beat them? Ok, let us imagine them on "top form," who wins? Why can't we juts celebrate a fantastic win over England, the home of rugby with 50 million people in their country. Sub par or not it's a fantastic achievement.

england were sub par because ireland outplayed them.

Our scrum was supposed to get demolished by the monster england pack, it didnt.

Vunipola & co were going to run over the top of us, he didnt.

Our backrow was lightweight but it stood up and was dominant

Joseph was going to dance his way through our midfield, he didnt, he hardly got a touch of the ball, his biggest contribution was a clothesline on RK which gave us a free play which we scored a try from.

The past is irrelevant. This is all about the here and now. We have a very good team, some strength in depth, a top class coach and a team packed with leadership. We have had some of our best players [leaders] missing over the last few months but have beaten SA, Aus, France and England.

Most 6n games are competitive, no 6n game will ever be easy, even if we have to wait until 60 minutes to put scores on italy like last year. But this irish team has learnt how to close out games. We have beaten england at home by 10 points and the whistle goes, the players shake hands and hit the showers. No laps of honour, no milking it. This team is about winning.

Ireland also have a decent record in cardiff and this current side will be confident but wont be complacent, they know they have a lot to do to win the next game but we also know they will do everything they can to win

efb

On to Cardiff have my ticket- I said I wouldn't go to Edinburgh but....

metrosity

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Great performance from Ireland. The English are always great to play against. Their matches are the most memorable. They are a worthy adversary and beating them is just so good.

Yeah, I'm happy with the win and I enjoy Ireland beating them too, but only really because they're sour, in the closet at least.

But also, I think it holds us back. I don't think the players care that much about beating England. They don't like to lose against them but winning the 6N is always good, no matter whether we beat the English or not. I'd rather win the 6N every time and lose against the English every time - but that's me. Who cares about them

philstar

Warren Gatland

bilston wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks the Cole/Healy incident is worth revisiting? IMO Cole's head makes an unnatural move towards Healy's face as they come together. I admit slow motion replays make these things look a lot worse.

comeuppance for what healy did to cole i suppose

ThisRegard

Gits_bone wrote: »

ugly to watch unless you only care about the result.

Crazy thought I know, but that's the point of the competition.

Gits_bone

ThisRegard wrote: »

Crazy thought I know, but that's the point of the competition.

Your comment has nothing to do with what I said?

phog

Hagz wrote: »

It's a load of crap to be honest. I wonder how much GAA these guys have actually player. Probably a couple of games at u13 level.

shuffol wrote: »

Tbh I wouldn't pay much heed to the handling aspect of things but timing your jump for when a ball is dropping is a big thing and I think GAA helps things in that regard. It is overstated though.

I read a presentation/report a few years back that was presented too GAA coaches and it mentioned the importance of getting kids jumping in their early years. It said that it's a skill that should be taught in early life as it's more difficult to train the leg muscles in a teen. It predicted that GAA could lose the art of jumping into the air for high balls if kids continue their current lifestyle of sitting in front of TVs, PCs, Games, etc


On the game itself, terrific win and a very enjoyable, top notch from all the lads, backrow were immense as were Best, Sexton & Murray. Ross had a great game was worth his weight in gold at scrum time.

This was a real step in our Grand Slam journey.

duckysauce

England

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

As a Connacht man, I thought Robbie was everywhere and immense. His display today was legendary.

second that was there and was the best Irish performance that i saw since Bod winning the English match on his TOd a few years back . Henshaw's tackling was unreal cut them down at the ankles all match long JJ who :pac::pac::D. His try was unreal too like Horgans in croker :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:.

WOW

JPCN1

Really enjoyed that!

I really couldn't care less about the manner of our win but, the result. JS sends teams out to win - which they do....

It's not so long since the 90's where we were everyones whipping boys.

Big credit to Joe.

metrosity

walshb wrote: »

Not living in the past, but not arrogant/naive enough to have the view that we deserve to beat and should beat the likes of France and England and Wales. And if we don't we should get slagged and criticised. Beating them doesn't shock me, but nor does losing to them. It's nip and tuck at the highest level. It was our 47th win vs. England today. Lost 74. The last loss was last year. I am not living in the past days when they used to regularly paste us.

"Not living in the past, but ..It was our 47th win vs. England today. Lost 74. "

I'm sorry but you are. In fact, you're living so far in the past as to include the the non professional era. Sorry you can't see that. And I'm sorry about your numeracy skills.

Luckily Joe Schmidt doesn't see it like you do. Ireland are better than England right now, and as long as we go for brains over brawn, we have a good chance of getting the better of them on into the future, Sure, obviously what comes up must come down.

..but rise again later

walshb

Gits_bone wrote: »

Your comment has nothing to do with what I said?

Was Henshaw's try ugly? Today was not ugly to everyone. Rugby is a very diverse game.

thomond2006

England

That was an awesome match. You don't need a match to be a Barbarians style for it to be riveting and this match was gripping. It was an arm wrestle from start to finish and Ireland fully deserved the scoreline. England made a crucial error in not taking the kickable penalty to make it 6-6 in the first half. It was absolutely the wrong call, in a tight match like this you have to take your points. Ireland took their points when they were camped on the England line earlier in the match. England's discipline let them down but Ireland forced many penalties from them. They were fortunate not to have a card for persistent infringement.

Not to have a go at Madigan, but the difference to Ireland when Sexton isn't on the pitch is very significant. Ireland lost a bit of direction after Henshaw's try (it wasn't helped with the surgery on the backline after JP went off) and (box) kicked the ball to England far too much. Now Ireland defended superbly but I think we could have kept the ball in hand a little more. I certainly think there is a place for Earls or Fitzgerald somewhere in the backline. I don't want to be negative after a great win but I'm concerned that when Ireland's backline need to manufacture a try that we could struggle. There's a lack of X Factor in the backs that Earls or Fitzgerald could deliver. Bowe and Zebo are excellent in the kickchase so they are un-movable for the moment but I think Payne needs to up his attacking game. We know he is a wonderful playmaker for Ulster but unfortunately he hasn't shown it yet for Ireland.

The semi-accurate ESPN stats: http://www.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2015/rugby/match/180687.html

Robbie Henshaw is our top tackler for a third game in a row. Take a bow son.

walshb

metrosity wrote: »

"Not living in the past, but ..It was our 47th win vs. England today. Lost 74. "

I'm sorry but you are. In fact, you're living so far in the past as to include the the non professional era. Sorry you can't see that. And I'm sorry about your numeracy skills.

Luckily Joe Schmidt doesn't see it like you do. Ireland are better than England right now, and as long as we go for brains over brawn, we have a good chance of getting the better of them on into the future, Sure, obviously what comes up must come down.

..but rise again later

No need to be such a smart arse. I was enjoying debating with you, but you seem more intent on ridiculing. I'll leave it there. Last year is technically the past, but up until today England had the last win versus Ireland. That's a fairly simple concept. The overall point is that NO way are ever firm favorites to beat the English.

Gits_bone

walshb wrote: »

Was Henshaw's try ugly? Today was not ugly to everyone. Rugby is a very diverse game.

Yes because i judge the match on a whole by one piece of play. :rolleyes:

metrosity

JPCN1 wrote: »

Really enjoyed that!

I really couldn't care less about the manner of our win but, the result. JS sends teams out to win - which they do....

It's not so long since the 90's where we were everyones whipping boys.

Big credit to Joe.

He's not just a good tactician. He believes in the players, and ignores the ney sayers.

Ireland can always find a way to outsmart other teams. I believe that we will always prosper in periods as long as we keep that at the forefront. There will always be other golden generations of players here. It's not the number one game but it's still very popular and we have the players.

ThisRegard

errlloyd wrote: »

I think you're probably mixing him up with Tomas O Leary.

I had to check, De Examiner says he did http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/a-time-well-spent-for-murray-154611.html

walshb

Gits_bone wrote: »

Yes because i judge the match on a whole by one piece of play. :rolleyes:

Ok, so it was ugly. Thanks.

metrosity

walshb wrote: »

No need to be such a smart arse. I was enjoying debating with you, but you seem more intent on ridiculing. I'll leave it there. Last year is technically the past, but up until today England had the last win versus Ireland. That's a fairly simple concept. The overall point is that NO way are ever firm favorites to beat the English.

Ok, sorry if you think I'm being a smart arse. But I stand by what I said. Ireland are evolving. Rugby has never been in as good a place as it is now. Get over it.

Some day, Italy will be a force to be reckoned with and they're not going to care about your crappy irrelevant stats from a bygone era..

aimee1

thomond2006 wrote: »

That was an awesome match. You don't need a match to be a Barbarians style for it to be riveting and this match was gripping. It was an arm wrestle from start to finish and Ireland fully deserved the scoreline. England made a crucial error in not taking the kickable penalty to make it 6-6 in the first half. It was absolutely the wrong call, in a tight match like this you have to take your points. Ireland took their points when they were camped on the England line earlier in the match. England's discipline let them down but Ireland forced many penalties from them. They were fortunate not to have a card for persistent infringement.

Not to have a go at Madigan, but the difference to Ireland when Sexton isn't on the pitch is very significant. Ireland lost a bit of direction after Henshaw's try (it wasn't helped with the surgery on the backline after JP went off) and (box) kicked the ball to England far too much. Now Ireland defended superbly but I think we could have kept the ball in hand a little more. I certainly think there is a place for Earls or Fitzgerald somewhere in the backline. I don't want to be negative after a great win but I'm concerned that when Ireland's backline need to manufacture a try that we could struggle. There's a lack of X Factor in the backs that Earls or Fitzgerald could deliver. Bowe and Zebo are excellent in the kickchase so they are un-movable for the moment but I think Payne needs to up his attacking game. We know he is a wonderful playmaker for Ulster but unfortunately he hasn't shown it yet for Ireland.

The semi-accurate ESPN stats: http://www.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2015/rugby/match/180687.html

Robbie Henshaw is our top tackler for a third game in a row. Take a bow son.

POM 8/0, TOD 10/0, Jordi 11/0. That is impressive stuff for lightweights

philstar

Warren Gatland

Osborne wrote: »

As for England...back to the drawing board.

jeepers i wouldn't be so downbeat just yet...they were very much in it till the end

thebaz

I think the GAA thing does help our back 3 - the same was said about the Aussies - that the rules play helped ther fielding - Horgan, Kearney, Bowe, Henshaw early GAA training would definitely help - really helps the hand/eye co-ordination at development age

thomond2006

England

aimee1 wrote: »

POM 8/0, TOD 10/0, Jordi 11/0. That is impressive stuff for lightweights

walshb

metrosity wrote: »

Ok, sorry if you think I'm being a smart arse. But I stand by what I said. Ireland are evolving. Rugby has never been in as good a place as it is now. Get over it.

Some day, Italy will be a force to be reckoned with and they're not going to care about your crappy irrelevant stats from a bygone era..

Get over what? You think I don't now that we are a very good team? We have been for several years. But, guess what, so have some other teams been good and great since 6N began.

Buer

aimee1 wrote: »

POM 8/0, TOD 10/0, Jordi 11/0. That is impressive stuff for lightweights

Early stats, they'll be amended after the game is reviewed. It has SOB down as not making a tackle in his 25 minutes, for example.

ThisRegard

Gits_bone wrote: »

Your comment has nothing to do with what I said?

It does, ultimately why would you care for aesthetics over results?