Ireland vs England, Sunday 1st March 3pm; RTE/BBC

twinytwo

Neil3030 wrote: »

Just watching the game again - we are a bloody good team, people.

But yet if sexton gets injured we are stuffed

SaveOurLyric

LorMal wrote: »

We do tend to get a tad over excited about our players:). Suddenly every Irish player is 'the best in the Northern hemisphere' in their respective positions.
We love a good gloat. The Indo runs a big article today about how the English papers praised us and slated their own team. We don't make good winners.
Of course the same players will be castigated if we get thumped by the Welsh.
A bit of humility and less chest thumping would seem wise at this juncture.

Didnt make my point well then. It wasnt that Bowe and RK are the best out there. Its that they are the best for the game we are playing. Hogg is a lovely runner, with a guile that would have made him a huge star back in the amateur era of lower fitness and less sophisticated defences. Brown and Halfpenney are very rounded and fine players.
But with chasing kicks being the greatly dominant gameplan, Thomas and Robert are the guys you want jumping for the catches.

Gits_bone wrote: »

Not sure if serious?

If you are Tommy Bowe has been ineffective and I think if you had Dave Kearney in there he'd have done the same job.

Most certainly serious. See above. Agree though that Dave on form would probably not have changed matters so far to any great extent. Thats the beauty of the current system - it is far less reliant on particular players and their talents or strenghts, and so much more about the collective : each player acting as a cog in the machine. Witness the back row disruption both last year, in the AIs, and this 6N : who would have though Murphy, O'Donnell, O'Mahony (you could argue that with O'Donnell, we are playing a 7th choice backrow) being a back row that would not only not let us down, but seriously gain the upper hand over the English pack?

Baggy Trousers

Gits_bone wrote: »

When you think about it, I'd have RK 4th choice in the 6 nations.

Hogg/Halfpenny/Brown all would be ahead of him for me. He's reliable and steady.

Hogg was rubbish against Italy.

Gits_bone

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Most certainly serious. See above. Agree though that Dave on form would probably not have changed matters so far to any great extent. Thats the beauty of the current system - it is far less reliant on particular players and their talents or strenghts, and so much more about the collective : each player acting as a cog in the machine. Witness the back row disruption both last year, in the AIs, and this 6N : who would have though Murphy, O'Donnell, O'Mahony (you could argue that with O'Donnell, we are playing a 7th choice backrow) being a back row that would not only not let us down, but seriously gain the upper hand over the English pack?

So why did you say the dream back line is 2 Tommys?

SaveOurLyric

Gits_bone wrote: »

So why did you say the dream back line is 2 Tommys?

Tommy is quicker. Play him on the wings, better at chasing kicks to the corner or in open field.
Two Robs in the centre, and one at full back. Safe under any high balls, fearless and great at leaping and plucking balls in a crowded midfield.

Anyway, until the availability of human cloning, we have strayed a long way on my effort to make a point !

Gits_bone

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Tommy is quicker. Play him on the wings, better at chasing kicks to the corner or in open field.
Two Robs in the centre, and one at full back. Safe under any high balls, fearless and great at leaping and plucking balls in a crowded midfield.

Anyway, until the availability of human cloning, we have strayed a long way on my effort to make a point !

But you said the players don't matter?

SaveOurLyric

Gits_bone wrote: »

But you said the players don't matter?

Within reason. Thats why we're still doing OK even though we dont have three Robs.

Neil3030

England

twinytwo wrote: »

But yet if sexton gets injured we are stuffed

When will Jackson be back does anyone know?

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

When will Jackson be back does anyone know?

I think he's back in training shortly, probably won't be up to speed for this 6N.

Baggy Trousers

I wonder at this stage will Darcy ever play for Ireland again.

jspuds

Neil3030 wrote: »

When will Jackson be back does anyone know?

April
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/paddy-jackson-returns-to-training-and-will-be-back-before-april-1.2123440

total former

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I wonder at this stage will Darcy ever play for Ireland again.

I think if Henshaw got injured, I'd be surprised to see anyone else playing 12 in Cardiff or Edinburgh.

Looking forward though, the form Henshaw is in and D'Arcy's inability to play anywhere other than 12 mean the World Cup is probably a long shot for him. He'll probably play in the August warm ups and that could be his last caps.

Whosthis

LorMal wrote: »

We do tend to get a tad over excited about our players:). Suddenly every Irish player is 'the best in the Northern hemisphere' in their respective positions.
We love a good gloat. The Indo runs a big article today about how the English papers praised us and slated their own team. We don't make good winners.
Of course the same players will be castigated if we get thumped by the Welsh.
A bit of humility and less chest thumping would seem wise at this juncture.

That has nothing to do with us being good or bad winners, it has everything to do with the Indo being a ****e newspaper.

LorMal

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Speak for yourself. Most rugby folk I know are quite humble boarding on pessimistic when it comes to the national team, even now. I think most are wary about our trip to Cardiff.

Ah now, I know you are the epitome of deprecation, Micky, the very essence of grace and dignity in victory. I am not referring to your good self or your fellow humble rugby folk at all - indeed I have never had the pleasure of your company.
I am referring to those in the Meeja and on discussion forums (e.g. the Journal) who lose all sense of balance or reason when we are playing well. Indeed, many go onto the Guardian Rugby Forum to have a good old gloat.
Have a look at the Player Ratings in the Indo for the match - Jebus, we would beat the ABs by 50 points in a canter by that reckoning.

LorMal

Neil3030 wrote: »

When will Jackson be back does anyone know?

I prefer Madigan

wp_rathead

TommyOM wrote: »

Anyone know what position he played at for Leinster schools??

Robbie played center in schools I believe (and, as been pointed out, played in Connacht Schools)

Zzippy

England

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Tommy is quicker. Play him on the wings, better at chasing kicks to the corner or in open field.
Two Robs in the centre, and one at full back. Safe under any high balls, fearless and great at leaping and plucking balls in a crowded midfield.

Anyway, until the availability of human cloning, we have strayed a long way on my effort to make a point !

Jaysus, centre is the last place I'd want Kearney. Centres require a decent ability to tackle. Kearney's a decent fullback, and that's about it. In that position he's rarely exposed in a 1-on-1, which is just as well. I shudder to think what he'd be like at 12 or 13...

phog

Lots and lots of photos from the game

Gits_bone

Jared Payne looks like Juan Mata

bilston

LorMal wrote: »

I prefer Madigan

That wasn't the question...

efb

Gits_bone wrote: »

Jared Payne looks like Juan Mata

Not as useless

LorMal

bilston wrote: »

That wasn't the question...

Very sorry.

bilston

LorMal wrote: »

Very sorry.

What for?:)

mfceiling

Gits_bone wrote: »

Jared Payne looks like Juan Mata

Too late...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92228078&postcount=377

Diabhal Beag

Warren Gatland

I know some harsh things have been posted on here before but there's no need to compare Payne to such a waste of space. Think a formal apology is in order :pac:

Swiwi.

The scrum-half remains a poor box kicker

More wisdom from George Hook :rolleyes:

I think he's world class. One of us is wrong...

Also, always fun to read the pre-match team assessments with the benefit of hindsight

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11441868/Ireland-v-England-player-head-to-head-who-comes-out-on-top.html

As you'd expect the England tight 5 is more highly rated than the Irish one. It's one area I think English journalistis are consistently myopic. They always believe they have some sort of amazing front-row, they tend to put a huge emphasis on the scrum when assessing their players. Some of the backline assessments are also interesting. Sexton a 9 but Ford an 8. Joseph a 9. They scored it evens before the match anyways...

davegrohl48

Interesting to read some of the analysis of how Ireland have such great teamwork, detail n discipline at the breakdown, rucks n mauls. I think the mobility of OMahoney/OBrien/Murphy Best/OConnell is a huge help. We're not the biggest or fastest up front but our forwards do a pretty decent 3/4 pace for the duration of the match. Bigger more powerful forwards wouldn't be able to get around the pitch to the same degree. Twill be interesting to follow how refined and efficient we can get and what little extra advantages we can come up with.
The breakdown is often messy n uncoordinated for some teams, our players seem to be working in pairs n threes better than other teams.

19543261

England

Gits_bone wrote: »

George North, 6'4'', 109kg

Robbie Henshaw, 6'3'', 102kg

Pfft. Almost.

scott1974

Swiwi. wrote: »

The scrum-half remains a poor box kicker

More wisdom from George Hook :rolleyes:

I think he's world class. One of us is wrong...

Also, always fun to read the pre-match team assessments with the benefit of hindsight

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11441868/Ireland-v-England-player-head-to-head-who-comes-out-on-top.html

As you'd expect the England tight 5 is more highly rated than the Irish one. It's one area I think English journalistis are consistently myopic. They always believe they have some sort of amazing front-row, they tend to put a huge emphasis on the scrum when assessing their players. Some of the backline assessments are also interesting. Sexton a 9 but Ford an 8. Joseph a 9. They scored it evens before the match anyways...

I read those rating too but I actually think they were actually done before the game as predictions...otherwise they are just ridiculous.
One comment from the author says "I wish I had your hindsight"..or something similar.

Podge_irl

scott1974 wrote: »

I read those rating too but I actually think they were actually done before the game as predictions...otherwise they are just ridiculous.
One comment from the author says "I wish I had your hindsight"..or something similar.

They were done before the match but they're stupid. They're generally far too high so they do nothing to distinguish between players properly. Joseph and Sexton getting the same rating is farcical for one. Neither Ireland or England are teams full of players who should be rated 9s and 8s out of 10.

Swiwi.

scott1974 wrote: »

I read those rating too but I actually think they were actually done before the game as predictions...otherwise they are just ridiculous.
One comment from the author says "I wish I had your hindsight"..or something similar.

Yeah before the game alright. But still loads of nonsense. Running amok against Italy doesn't suddenly make Joseph a 9/10 midfielder.

S12b

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah before the game alright. But still loads of nonsense. Running amok against Italy doesn't suddenly make Joseph a 9/10 midfielder.

+1 on this, the hype around Joseph annoyed me.....a few good performances in the Premiership, a try against Wales that your Granny would score and one nice run against a tired Italy.....and all of a sudden he's a superstar.

.ak

S12b wrote: »

+1 on this, the hype around Joseph annoyed me.....a few good performances in the Premiership, a try against Wales that your Granny would score and one nice run against a tired Italy.....and all of a sudden he's a superstar.

I actually think he is a very, very good 13 in the making. Could be a future Lion imo.

Gits_bone

S12b wrote: »

+1 on this, the hype around Joseph annoyed me.....a few good performances in the Premiership, a try against Wales that your Granny would score and one nice run against a tired Italy.....and all of a sudden he's a superstar.

2 noteworthy performances v France and Scotland with a few tries making him top try scorer and he'll be player of the championship imo.

Didn't see many people saying he was the next BOD but he definitely had the potential to do damage to us.

Baggy Trousers

.ak wrote: »

I actually think he is a very, very good 13 in the making. Could be a future Lion imo.

I agree, I think he has great awareness and speed and is teak tough. We did very well to shackle him on Sunday.

.ak

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I agree, I think he has great awareness and speed and is teak tough. We did very well to shackle him on Sunday.

Yeah, the only time we did give him half a yard of space and he looked dangerous. For the most part we shut down that space well, credit due to Sexton, Payne and Henshaw.

Bridge93

England

S12b wrote: »

+1 on this, the hype around Joseph annoyed me.....a few good performances in the Premiership, a try against Wales that your Granny would score and one nice run against a tired Italy.....and all of a sudden he's a superstar.

That's pretty harsh. The hype is well over the top but he is excellent. Welsh defence needs to look at itself but his footwork was excellent get away from Biggar. And his first try against Italy was brilliant too.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

I actually think he is a very, very good 13 in the making. Could be a future Lion imo.

In the making
Could be

I like my players graded on how they are actually not what they might become.

He could well be a 9/10 player. I don't think he's that currently, and certainly didn't really shine on Saturday, if compared to 6/10 Payne or 8/10 Henshaw.

S12b

.ak wrote: »

I actually think he is a very, very good 13 in the making. Could be a future Lion imo.

Bridge93 wrote: »

That's pretty harsh. The hype is well over the top but he is excellent. Welsh defence needs to look at itself but his footwork was excellent get away from Biggar. And his first try against Italy was brilliant too.

Not denying for a second he could be excellent and go on to play for the Lions....my point is after 2 good matches, he's suddenly the next Conrad Smith/BOD....the hype was silly but that's the English media for you. My gripe is with them, not Joseph.

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

In the making
Could be

I like my players graded on how they are actually not what they might become.

He could well be a 9/10 player. I don't think he's that currently, and certainly didn't really shine on Saturday, if compared to 6/10 Payne or 8/10 Henshaw.

No you're absolutely right, I'm just responding to the post who thinks he's had an easy run into the hype... He's been brilliant all season, and imo, is deserving of a lot of the hype around him. To say he's a 9/10 player is a bit much, but he made that try in Wales look easier than it was. Just like BOD did in Australia.

Yeah_Right

S12b wrote: »

.my point is after 2 good matches, he's suddenly the next Conrad Smith/BOD....t

I love it that an Irishman would put these 2 together

scott1974

Bridge93 wrote: »

That's pretty harsh. The hype is well over the top but he is excellent. Welsh defence needs to look at itself but his footwork was excellent get away from Biggar. And his first try against Italy was brilliant too.

Biggar shot up out of the defensive line and made it a bit easier for Joseph, It would have been more difficult had the line stayed flat ...IMO

.ak

scott1974 wrote: »

Biggar shot up out of the defensive line and made it a bit easier for Joseph, It would have been more difficult had the line stayed flat ...IMO

True, but he still had two players on him and managed to worm his way out of the tackle. Great foot work and movement, very Shane Williams like infact.

Bridge93

England

It would have been more difficult to score the try but by shooting up Biggar made it more difficult for Joseph to get away from him in their 1v1. I don't think he thought Joseph could/would do what he did.

scott1974

Bridge93 wrote: »

It would have been more difficult to score the try but by shooting up Biggar made it more difficult for Joseph to get away from him in their 1v1. I don't think he thought Joseph could/would do what he did.

Joseph did well...but for me Biggar shot but didn't make the tackle, he just kinda stood in the way... he definitely made up Joseph's mind.. after that he showed good footwork.
For me, if you shoot up out of defense at least get a hand on the attacker.
I'm not doubting Joseph's ability, I just thought that Wales were actually defending quite well in that passage of play up to that point.

Micky Dolenz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPi7kmY3xQ8

Nice bit of skill but soft at the same time.

molloyjh

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I love it that an Irishman would put these 2 together

We're pretty graceful like that, and Smith is actually fairly decent so he's not that out of place there.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPi7kmY3xQ8

Nice bit of skill but soft at the same time.

Yeah exactly, it's a little bit from column A and a little bit from column B. Joseph has a lot of potential and seems to be the sort to be able to find that at international level so in time he could be great. But then he wouldn't be the first to fail to live up to initial promise if he didn't either.

BoardsMember

If there are grannies out there that could have scored that I think the ladies team needs to be looking at them, and maybe Fiona Coughlan retired too early??!!

Teferi

bilston

.ak wrote: »

I actually think he is a very, very good 13 in the making. Could be a future Lion imo.

Undoubtedly, however I forgot he was playing on Sunday such was his impact.

Talking of future Lions 13s there are some good young OCs around. JJ, Henshaw and Bennett could all be vying for the 13 jersey in a couple of years time, but right now it would be hard to look past Davies and Tuilagi.

Actually when Tuilagi returns where will JJ fit into Lancaster's plans?