PS4 Megathread 3.0

J Mysterio

PSnow reads a bit like P Snow.

DeSelby83

I have a base ps4 and will be using a 4k tv with HDR on a few weeks. Does the HDR really make a massive difference? I was thinking of holding off finishing some games like Doom, ratchet and AC origins and holding off on GoW. From others experience it is worth waiting or will I not really notice a difference?

CastorTroy

So seems amazon UK aren't taking preorders for first party PS4 games for some reason. God of War, Detroit and Spider-Man are all saying "Currently unavailable".

TitianGerm

DeSelby83 wrote: »

I have a base ps4 and will be using a 4k tv with HDR on a few weeks. Does the HDR really make a massive difference? I was thinking of holding off finishing some games like Doom, ratchet and AC origins and holding off on GoW. From others experience it is worth waiting or will I not really notice a difference?

But the base PS4 can't output in HDR?

DeSelby83

TitianGerm wrote: »

DeSelby83 wrote: »

I have a base ps4 and will be using a 4k tv with HDR on a few weeks. Does the HDR really make a massive difference? I was thinking of holding off finishing some games like Doom, ratchet and AC origins and holding off on GoW. From others experience it is worth waiting or will I not really notice a difference?

But the base PS4 can't output in HDR?

I think it does. I thought it was added in a patch last year sometime. Could be wrong though. Can anyone confirm?

DeSelby83

DeSelby83 wrote: »

I have a base ps4 and will be using a 4k tv with HDR on a few weeks. Does the HDR really make a massive difference? I was thinking of holding off finishing some games like Doom, ratchet and AC origins and holding off on GoW. From others experience it is worth waiting or will I not really notice a difference?

It depends on the TV.

Affordable HDR sets don't really have a good enough panel to fully convey HDR...which is why you often hear people underwhelmed or not sure exactly what they are supposed to be seeing. You really need an OLED set to get the legit effect.

Varik

DeSelby83 wrote: »

I think it does. I thought it was added in a patch last year sometime. Could be wrong though. Can anyone confirm?

That's true.

jonerkinsella

Deleted User wrote: »

It depends on the TV.

Affordable HDR sets don't really have a good enough panel to fully convey HDR...which is why you often hear people underwhelmed or not sure exactly what they are supposed to be seeing. You really need an OLED set to get the legit effect.

You do not require an OLED tv to get HDR. A tv requires a 10bit panel that can reach the 1000 lumen range to output true HDR.
OLED tv's are not recommended for gaming because of the real possibility of image burn and colour fade of the actual organic led pixels.
Buy a Sony 9 series or Samsung 7 series for true HDR and no image retention, degradation or screen burn issues.

Lots of stuff about the web about this subject,
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled

jonerkinsella

jonerkinsella wrote: »

You do not require an OLED tv to get HDR. A tv requires a 10bit panel that can reach the 1000 lumen range to output true HDR.
OLED tv's are not recommended for gaming because of the real possibility of image burn and colour fade of the actual organic led pixels.
Buy a Sony 9 series or Samsung 7 series for true HDR and no image retention, degradation or screen burn issues.

Lots of stuff about the web about this subject,
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled

You are quoting the guidelines of manufacturers who sell LCD sets. I am talking about the actual display characteristics necessary to convey a HDR image.

To convey the intended effect of HDR you need a TV capable of displaying something very bright and something very dark, on screen, at the same time, and on a per-pixel level.

Current LCD panels cannot do this to the degree necessary to get a true HDR effect. They can accept the signal, process it and attempt to display it, but the panel itself physically cannot display the image satisfactorily. So you are not experiencing the intended effect.

A simple example is a fireworks display against a night sky. The idea of HDR is to have the fireworks intensely bright while the night sky remains pure black. An LCD panel cannot do this. Raising the backlight level to make the fireworks intsensely bright has the knock-on effect of raising the entire black level of a large portion of the panel. The night sky becomes gray, or worse.

Even with a high-end local dimming set, each dimming zone corresponds to tens of thousands of pixels. This is not sufficient granularity for real world HDR images where highlights and shadows can be mere pixels apart.

I understand why you don't like to hear this. It's the truth. You can still enjoy an LCD set on many levels. I am simply answering the question asked ("does HDR make a massive difference"). On most common TV sets, it does not.

jonerkinsella

Deleted User wrote: »

You are quoting the guidelines of manufacturers who sell LCD sets. I am talking about the actual display characteristics necessary to convey a HDR image.

To convey the intended effect of HDR you need a TV capable of displaying something very bright and something very dark, on screen, at the same time, and on a per-pixel level.

Current LCD panels cannot do this to the degree necessary to get a true HDR effect. They can accept the signal, process it and attempt to display it, but the panel itself physically cannot display the image satisfactorily. So you are not experiencing the intended effect.

A simple example is a fireworks display against a night sky. The idea of HDR is to have the fireworks intensely bright while the night sky remains pure black. An LCD panel cannot do this. Raising the backlight level to make the fireworks intsensely bright has the knock-on effect of raising the entire black level of a large portion of the panel. The night sky becomes gray, or worse.

Even with a high-end local dimming set, each dimming zone corresponds to tens of thousands of pixels. This is not sufficient granularity for real world HDR images where highlights and shadows can be mere pixels apart.

I understand why you don't like to hear this. It's the truth. You can still enjoy an LCD set on many levels. I am simply answering the question asked ("does HDR make a massive difference"). On most common TV sets, it does not.

Me thinks you are quoting LG propaganda that is completely inaccurate.

Read the actual Vesa HDR specifications instead of LG literature,
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12144/vesa-announces-displayhdr-spec-and-tiers

And from another article
" What’s all this OLED vs LED talk and does it affect HDR?

The two big display technologies in the AV industry are OLED and LED LCD. For a full explanation of these two approaches check out our ‘OLED vs LED LCD’ feature. In short, LED TVs use lights to illuminate the pixels in a traditional LCD screen, while the pixels in OLED displays produce their own light.

LED TVs are capable of producing high peak brightness and as such, offer the best way for manufacturers to create HDR compatible TVs. Many argue that OLED technology isn’t a great option for HDR due to its difficulties in producing a very bright image versus LCD/LED.

So how can OLED, with its brightness issues, qualify for HDR compatibility? Well, the UHD Alliance has got around the problem by introducing two standards, either of which qualifies you for UHD Premium status:

STANDARD 1: More than 1,000 nits peak brightness and less than 0.05nits black level.

STANDARD 2: More than 540 nits brightness and less than 0.0005 nits black level.

While standard one demands higher brightness and tolerates a higher black level, standard two tolerates a lower brightness and demands a lower black level. This means manufacturers looking to make LED HDR TVs, which most are, will abide by standard one, while OLED TVs will be able to gain the Ultra HD Premium label by conforming to standard two. Ultimately, it’s not about how bright you get, but how much of a jump there is between light and dark.

And that’s it. In the grand scheme of things, it won’t matter which type of TV you have as to whether it will be HDR compatible or not. LED TVs will give you an HDR image with better peak brightness but less deep blacks, whiled OLED TVs will give you an HDR image with lower peak brightness but deeper blacks."
Source " http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinion/hdr-tv-high-dynamic-television-explained-2927035"

As I said before, you are quoting specs which TV manufacturers use to categorize and sell TVs.

I'm talking about what HDR actually is, what the intent of it is and what kind of display attributes you need perceive the full benefits.

The vast majority of manufacturers on the market have a vested interest in LCD. These manufacturers have disproportionate voting powers in the UHD alliance. Therefore the requirements to satisfy "HDR Premium" compliance and so forth were gimped in order that these manufacturers could sell compliant sets.

If you are simply interested in ticking a box, or the man in the showroom telling you the set you bought is HDR, that's fine, that's your prerogative. But if you want to perceive and enjoy the benefits of HDR you need an OLED set.

jonerkinsella

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said before, you are quoting specs which TV manufacturers use to categorize and sell TVs.

I'm talking about what HDR actually is, what the intent of it is and what kind of display attributes you need perceive the full benefits.

The vast majority of manufacturers on the market have a vested interest in LCD. These manufacturers have disproportionate voting powers in the UHD alliance. Therefore the requirements to satisfy "HDR Premium" compliance and so forth were gimped in order that these manufacturers could sell compliant sets.

If you are simply interested in ticking a box, or the man in the showroom telling you the set you bought is HDR, that's fine, that's your prerogative. But if you want to perceive and enjoy the benefits of HDR you need an OLED set.

Can you please supply a a reference to your information or is it just your opinion?
I've provided direct links about the industry standard specification of hdr and not an opinion. Thanks.

DeSelby83

This may have gone futher than expected. Regardless I'm looking forward to playing on my fancy new tv

Sephiroth_dude

CastorTroy wrote: »

So seems amazon UK aren't taking preorders for first party PS4 games for some reason. God of War, Detroit and Spider-Man are all saying "Currently unavailable".

Not enough stock to fill orders I guess.

jonerkinsella

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Can you please supply a a reference to your information or is it just your opinion?
I've provided direct links about the industry standard specification of hdr and not an opinion. Thanks.

What I have said are technical statements based on how display panels work. It's factual, not an opinion. I am speaking from a technical perspective, not a branding or marketing perspective.

I am trying to explain to you the difference between branding and reality. You are putting far too much stock in what the company selling you the TV is saying.

Feel free to quote something specific and refute it or ask me to explain it further. There's no point in just saying 'source or GTFO' because I have made multiple posts with a lot of separate points.

jonerkinsella

Deleted User wrote: »

What I have said are technical statements based on how display panels work. It's factual, not an opinion. I am speaking from a technical perspective, not a branding or marketing perspective.

I am trying to explain to you the difference between branding and reality. You are putting far too much stock in what the company selling you the TV is saying.

Feel free to quote something specific and refute it or ask me to explain it further. There's no point in just saying 'source or GTFO' because I have made multiple posts with a lot of separate points.

Ahh. So your quoting " alternative facts " . That makes sense, as you've not provided anything to back up any of the opinions that you have clamed as facts here.
Your advice about oled TV's is wrong. You obviously think that your alternative opinion is correct, and that's fine as everyone is entitled to an opinion, but your statements above are factually incorrect ( in this universe, not the alternative one you seem to think matters). You can disagree all you want wirh the industry standards thatare set by the industry that manufacture the actuall products, but the industry tells you what the standards are, you don't get to tell them, not in the universe most of us here inhabit anyway.
If you have any EVIDENCE to counter my statements, then please feel free to post it. Please, no more opinions.

The question was asked about whether HDR makes a 'massive' difference.

I answered the question - it depends on the TV and for the majority of TVs on the market currently, it does not.

I attempted to explain the reason why - on a technical level - but it's clear that you're not interested in discussing it objectively. You are suffering from what is known as choice-supportive bias. Some people can buy a product and have no problem pointing out its flaws; others can't and take it almost as an insult. That's fine, we can leave it there.

Next time someone is not sure if HDR on their €500 'UHD Premium' set is working... they are underwhelmed or not sure what they are supposed to be seeing, you can explain to them why they're wrong. The manufacturer says the TV has great HDR so it must be so. Someone selling something would never lie about it.

jonerkinsella

Deleted User wrote: »

The question was asked about whether HDR makes a 'massive' difference.

I answered the question - it depends on the TV and for the majority of TVs on the market currently, it does not.

I attempted to explain the reason why - on a technical level - but it's clear that you're not interested in discussing it objectively. You are suffering from what is known as choice-supportive bias. Some people can buy a product and have no problem pointing out its flaws; others can't and take it almost as an insult. That's fine, we can leave it there.

Next time someone is not sure if HDR on their €500 'UHD Premium' set is working... they are underwhelmed or not sure what they are supposed to be seeing, you can explain to them why they're wrong. The manufacturer says the TV has great HDR so it must be so. Someone selling something would never lie about it.

Can you please point to where anyone asked a question about a "Premium HDR" TV ?
I am well aware that a TV has to be certified as "Premium" and I have quoted directly to what makes a TV Premium HDR.
You are trying to move the goalposts here. You are now stating that you answered a very different question than the one you actually answered.
People come on here to get advice about different options and devices. You made a sweeping statement that only OLED TV's can output true HDR. I have posted direct evidence that you are incorrect in your advice.
Here is a link to the official HDR specs from the official HDR authority on what HDR is,
https://displayhdr.org/
HDR 1000 is "Premium HDR". A special classification was adopted for OLED screens as they can't reach the same brightness level as LCD displays. This classification is based on contrast ratio at the black level baseline.
I never stated that OLED is a bad technology, I stated that it is not preferable for gaming as there is a very real threat of image burn. This fact can be checked all over the net and the accounts are widely available for all to see.

Can you please provide any published data/information to back up your sweeping statements that you have made on this thread ?

HDR is not an opinion.

johnny_ultimate

Mod note Folks can you take this to PM please? Thanks a mill.

ziggyman17

Bought a 55inch Samsung Q7F the other day, hooked up the ps4 pro to it and my jaw hit the ground, the difference is huge when you turn on HDR, started playing Horizon Zero Dawn and Far Cry 5 and the difference between the new tv and my old 4k Samsung is huge.......... the colors are a joy to behold...

SolvableKnave

ziggyman17 wrote: »

Bought a 55inch Samsung Q7F the other day, hooked up the ps4 pro to it and my jaw hit the ground, the difference is huge when you turn on HDR, started playing Horizon Zero Dawn and Far Cry 5 and the difference between the new tv and my old 4k Samsung is huge.......... the colors are a joy to behold...

Jordan 199

Had my PS4 slim for about a year now. It's a fine console and has great exclusives, but the only downside to it for me is no USB port at the back.

bigphil2

H1Z1 coming to Ps4 May 22nd

https://wccftech.com/h1z1-coming-to-playstation-4-may-22/

Zero-Cool

bigphil2 wrote: »

H1Z1 coming to Ps4 May 22nd

https://wccftech.com/h1z1-coming-to-playstation-4-may-22/

I always wanted to play that, wasn't it a zombie survive em up dealing with other players also? That sounds more appealing than just a battle royale mode.

EoinMcLovin

There is a demo for Detroit:Become Human on the the store now

bigphil2

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I always wanted to play that, wasn't it a zombie survive em up dealing with other players also? That sounds more appealing than just a battle royale mode.

Id say they are working on getting the BR mode out first as its the Mode du Jour ..but id say they'll release the survival one in future,saying that apparantly its a mess on pc..

EoinMcLovin

EoinMcLovin wrote: »

There is a demo for Detroit:Become Human on the the store now

Clocks in around the 2.9gb mark for those interested.

F1ngers

bigphil2 wrote: »

H1Z1 coming to Ps4 May 22nd

https://wccftech.com/h1z1-coming-to-playstation-4-may-22/

€32 with PS+.

Varik

H1Z1 survive had base building and persistence.

if it ends up free it'd be a laugh get as many boardies as possible and build a big old fort.

Can't see if it's out right paid or paid just for early access and a few cosmetics.

Zero-Cool

F1ngers wrote: »

€32 with PS+.

Is there a free version as well?