Raw 2/3/15

CSF

To be honest, this is gonna be the first time where I sympathise with Wyatt when his feud flops.

It's 3 Raws from Wrestlemania and there is no feud. People saying Bray is carrying the feud. He isnt. There is no feud. No story to it. What we are seeing now is essentially where it should have been before Fastlane, with Undertaker long introduced and a feud begun. If this was a Brock Lesnar feud the Internet would have exploded in outrage by now.

What's worse is they're pretty much taking away what would have been the selling point of this feud in the first place. I don't think anybody is expecting either guy here to be capable of an 8/10 + match at this stage. The selling point of this feud was surely to see the 2 characters work against each other, and try get Bray over as a heel. Even if they'd had Kane or someone around to represent the Undertaker side.

I honestly don't get the reasoning behind this one.

Tugboats

CSF wrote: »

To be honest, this is gonna be the first time where I sympathise with Wyatt when his feud flops.

It's 3 Raws from Wrestlemania and there is no feud. People saying Bray is carrying the feud. He isnt. There is no feud. No story to it. What we are seeing now is essentially where it should have been before Fastlane, with Undertaker long introduced and a feud begun. If this was a Brock Lesnar feud the Internet would have exploded in outrage by now.

What's worse is they're pretty much taking away what would have been the selling point of this feud in the first place. I don't think anybody is expecting either guy here to be capable of an 8/10 + match at this stage. The selling point of this feud was surely to see the 2 characters work against each other, and try get Bray over as a heel. Even if they'd had Kane or someone around to represent the Undertaker side.

I honestly don't get the reasoning behind this one.

If the plan really is no Taker until Mania then I thinks its a good plan. Undertaker at Mania this year is already a diluted event because the streak is gone. The best way to get people interested is to keep Taker off TV until the match which may build excitement when he is seen at Mania for the first time in a year. This excitement will carry the match

If Taker was on Raw on the road to Wrestlemania I think most would lose interest by the time the match came about. WWE are being clever here. All we need on Raw is a sign that Taker has accepted the challenge and we're good to go

CSF

Tugboats wrote: »

If the plan really is no Taker until Mania then I thinks its a good plan. Undertaker at Mania this year is already a diluted event because the streak is gone. The best way to get people interested is to keep Taker off TV until the match which may build excitement when he is seen at Mania for the first time in a year. This excitement will carry the match

If Taker was on Raw on the road to Wrestlemania I think most would lose interest by the time the match came about. WWE are being clever here. All we need on Raw is a sign that Taker has accepted the challenge and we're good to go

I really don't think so. You need either a great feud or a great match for an upper card Wrestlemania match. This is likely to have neither. Literally the only thing that's going to be a selling point is the Undertaker's presence.

Tugboats

CSF wrote: »

I really don't think so. You need either a great feud or a great match for an upper card Wrestlemania match. This is likely to have neither. Literally the only thing that's going to be a selling point is the Undertaker's presence.

I dont think they could have a good match or feud. Undertakers presence is the whole selling point and this is the best way of doing it. This doesnt really have anything to do with Bray. The week or two after mania he will be randomly feuding with someone else

ERG89

drugstore cowboy wrote: »

Jon has been a huge fan of wrestling for a long time and to his credit he sometimes mentions a wwe storyline on his show to complete silence from his audience!

Jon thanked the wwe on his show for giving him and his son such a good time.

Again to the crowds silence!

It makes such a difference when a celebrity turns up and actually wants to be there. Hugh Jackman actually enjoyed himself for instance whereas do you remember the 3 Stooges who behaved like they were Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Benedict Cumberbatch.
I ain't a huge fan of Jon Stewart but he played his role perfectly and I liked how he brought up that he was at the MITB PPV which it was relevant to Rollins.

CSF

Tugboats wrote: »

I dont think they could have a good match or feud. Undertakers presence is the whole selling point and this is the best way of doing it. This doesnt really have anything to do with Bray. The week or two after mania he will be randomly feuding with someone else

Id have thought this was an attempt at having Bray follow in the Undertaker's footsteps.

I mean Id be very surprised if Wyatt wasn't winning this.

Lord TSC

I think we needed to see some mindgames from Taker and Bray being unaffected before Mania.

I fully believe this is a feeding to Taker...he's not going to appear, lose and disappear....

CSF

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think we needed to see some mindgames from Taker and Bray being unaffected before Mania.

I fully believe this is a feeding to Taker...he's not going to appear, lose and disappear....

Interesting. I had thought it was almost a general consensus that Bray was going to win.

Lord TSC

I can't see how, especially with how the "feud" is going.

Everything about this screams building Bray up to feed him to Taker. Bray gains nothing from beating Undertaker; not only did he lose the streak last year, Taker hasn't appeared since so all Bray would be doing is beating someone who lost badly and didn't do anything since then. If Undertaker doesn't show till Mania, gets beaten and then disappears again, it serves no real purpose.

To me, this will be more about Taker returning for one last hurray, beating Bray and showing he's still a force to be dealt with. Ideally, he'd stick round after Mania and the two would engage in some sort of, ya know, storyline. Realistically, I'd say this is probably Taker's final match, one last hurrah, one last feel good moment for the fans and an attempt to end on a high.

A Primal Nut

Tugboats wrote: »

If the plan really is no Taker until Mania then I thinks its a good plan. Undertaker at Mania this year is already a diluted event because the streak is gone. The best way to get people interested is to keep Taker off TV until the match which may build excitement when he is seen at Mania for the first time in a year. This excitement will carry the match

If Taker was on Raw on the road to Wrestlemania I think most would lose interest by the time the match came about. WWE are being clever here. All we need on Raw is a sign that Taker has accepted the challenge and we're good to go

For me, Wyatt and Taker is a natural feud; so it's a real shame we aren't getting it. As much as I like both guys, I have no interest in seeing then fight for no reason. It's not like this is a dream match that doesn't need a storyline.

CSF

Lord TSC wrote: »

I can't see how, especially with how the "feud" is going.

Everything about this screams building Bray up to feed him to Taker. Bray gains nothing from beating Undertaker; not only did he lose the streak last year, Taker hasn't appeared since so all Bray would be doing is beating someone who lost badly and didn't do anything since then. If Undertaker doesn't show till Mania, gets beaten and then disappears again, it serves no real purpose.

To me, this will be more about Taker returning for one last hurray, beating Bray and showing he's still a force to be dealt with. Ideally, he'd stick round after Mania and the two would engage in some sort of, ya know, storyline. Realistically, I'd say this is probably Taker's final match, one last hurrah, one last feel good moment for the fans and an attempt to end on a high.

I wouldn't have thought Undertaker would have been the sort who would have wanted to go out with a win rather than putting someone over.

Questionable ethics aside, I can't remember any signs of him being less than a valuable asset to the WWE.

Stereomaniac

Lexicious wrote: »

It would make sense...He's in his early 40's now. He still looks in brilliant shape though, and still has plenty of wit to give some good segments.

He is in great condition for the age that he is and he's been running for years now. It would be nice if they gave him some little nod and acknowledgement I think.

JP Liz V1

Maybe because the streak is broken but I am not excited for a Taker appearance at WM now let alone a match for him against Wyatt

CSF

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Maybe because he streak is broken but I am not excited for a Taker appearance at WM now let alone a match for him against Wyatt

IMO if they were going down this route with Undertaker they should have gone with Bryan because they'd have killed some of the negativity around him not having a meaningful match, while creating a match for Undertaker that people would still be excited to see.

They really aren't helping Wyatt here at all. His critics, like me, have regularly gone to the fact that he hasn't had one feud as a singles competitor that the crowd or general WWE universe have bought into at all.

That was hardly going to change here when the other guy isn't even bothered showing up.

Like really, Lesnar would be crucified for this.

Tugboats

CSF wrote: »

IMO if they were going down this route with Undertaker they should have gone with Bryan because they'd have killed some of the negativity around him not having a meaningful match, while creating a match for Undertaker that people would still be excited to see.

They really aren't helping Wyatt here at all. His critics, like me, have regularly gone to the fact that he hasn't had one feud as a singles competitor that the crowd or general WWE universe have bought into at all.

That was hardly going to change here when the other guy isn't even bothered showing up.

Like really, Lesnar would be crucified for this.

Where are you getting all this Undertaker cant be bothered to show up to Raw stuff from?

At the moment this is how they are booking it

CSF

Tugboats wrote: »

Where are you getting all this Undertaker cant be bothered to show up to Raw stuff from?

At the moment this is how they are booking it

Id be surprised if this was a thing where WWE actively decided this would be a better feud if Taker wasn't around.

WWE are pretty bad with booking sometimes but this would still surprise me.

Taker was hardly a massive attendee last year for the Lesnar feud either if I remember correctly.

briany

CSF wrote: »

Id be surprised if this was a thing where WWE actively decided this would be a better feud if Taker wasn't around.

WWE are pretty bad with booking sometimes but this would still surprise me.

Taker was hardly a massive attendee last year for the Lesnar feud either if I remember correctly.

Putting Wyatt in a feud with 'Taker should have been a long-term plan. The only thing more baffling than the mishandling of the Undertaker is why they decide to start the feud one month before Wrestlemania like some sort of hard-headed tradition. Why not have it be a year-long build since Taker isn't going anywhere (being that he's off TV)? Have Wyatt come out, do the "funeral for the streak" angle, maybe a feud with Kane, and then leave it on a low simmer and do other things until Summerslam where an occurance would lose Bray a big match, then again at the RR. Then bring the thing to a boil in the last month and, presto, you have yourself a big WM match which a lot of people would care about.

Even if 'taker wasn't going to do another WM I'd still have had Wyatt do the streak funeral and build it from SS on if 'Taker gave a positive answer for 31.

CSF

briany wrote: »

Putting Wyatt in a feud with 'Taker should have been a long-term plan. The only thing more baffling than the mishandling of the Undertaker is why they decide to start the feud one month before Wrestlemania like some sort of hard-headed tradition. Why not have it be a year-long build since Taker isn't going anywhere (being that he's off TV)? Have Wyatt come out, do the "funeral for the streak" angle, maybe a feud with Kane, and then leave it on a low simmer and do other things until Summerslam where an occurance would lose Bray a big match, then again at the RR. Then bring the thing to a boil in the last month and, presto, you have yourself a big WM match which a lot of people would care about.

Even if 'taker wasn't going to do another WM I'd still have had Wyatt do the streak funeral and build it from SS on if 'Taker gave a positive answer for 31.

Agreed, as to the booking style. The only thing with it though is that WWE clearly weren't looking at Wyatt as anything until pretty much Hell In The Cell when they repackaged him with the Ambrose interference.

It wasn't that long before it when he got jobbed out to Cena in an almost burial kinda way on the Raw squash match after Summerslam to make Cena look strong after his own squash match v Lesnar.

But I agree with your main point, that WWE need to have plans for their big matches long in advance so that they can execute them throughout the year so that it all starts to fit into place come into Wrestlemania season.

To be fair to them, they actually did do this with Reigns and Lesnar, unfortunately for them it was the wrong pieces fitting into place.

briany

CSF wrote: »

To be fair to them, they actually did do this with Reigns and Lesnar, unfortunately for them it was the wrong pieces fitting into place.

You could say that this last year has been all about building Lesnar, which the WWE have done an absolute 5 star job of. That they stubbornly stick with Reigns is the bizarre part. Don't get me wrong, a lot of people like Reigns. Outside of the IWC bubble he's pretty popular but the hate he gets from the IWC and just a lot of more hardcore adult fans is bound to have a trickle down effect and I think it will make his push unsustainable. How is that any different from John Cena, though? Well I think Cena's rise to the top was at least somewhat organic and he was very over with everyone for about 3 years, right up until around 2006/7, and love him or hate him, you can't deny his work ethic and passion for what he does as a person (still NO fan of the character today, though).

The whole scenario smacks of the Yokozuna, Lex, Hogan & Bret tomfoolery of yesteryear. Yokozuna (Lesnar) was dominating all he faced, Luger (Reigns) was being groomed to beat him despite his build being totally inorganically built (heh), Hogan (Cena) was on his way down but was always a just out of the title picture if he wasn't in it, and everybody wanted Bret (Bryan) to be champ.