Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Caovyn Lineah

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Samuel Eto'o voted Yaya Toure as the best player in the world last year.

The driving force behind the team who won the premier league? Where's the problem?

Mikeyt086

I studied Film in college and I think Coutinho is class.

Caovyn Lineah

RobertKK wrote: »

Fact is Coutinho will win nothing, he is a list filler.

I agree he won't win it, I've already said that if anyone but DeGea wins it it's even more of a joke award than it already is.

Will I Amnt

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

The driving force behind the team who won the premier league? Where's the problem?

The problem is he's not Ronaldo or Messi.

Caovyn Lineah

Will I Amnt wrote: »

The problem is he's not Ronaldo or Messi.

Aren't opinions mad things all the same?

RobertKK

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I agree he won't win it, I've already said that if anyone but DeGea wins it it's even more of a joke award than it already is.

Agree, De Gea has been the stand out player this season. We can wait and see how the votes go, then give an opinion on the people who voted.

Will I Amnt

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Aren't opinions mad things all the same?

It's often the people that hold the opinion that can be mad.

Caovyn Lineah

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It's often the people that hold the opinion that can be mad.

Like saying Giggs deserved to win the award in 2009?

RobertKK

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Aren't opinions mad things all the same?

Etoo must have been disappointed with the final three players for the Ballon Dor.

Will I Amnt

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Like saying Giggs deserved to win the award in 2009?

Exactly like that.

bucketybuck

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Could you point out where I said this? I said a professional footballer knows more about football than an average joe soap sitting at home on a laptop or phone talking about it.

Not once did I mention the level of their footballing ability had anything to do with their knowledge of the game.

Why don't you read your words again, let me know when you figure this out...

Caovyn Lineah

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why don't you read your words again, let me know when you figure this out...

Professional footballers know more than people who don't play football professionally. What is confusing you exactly?

RobertKK

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Professional footballers know more than people who don't play football professionally. What is confusing you exactly?

They say they do be like the fans wondering about new signings.

Would one have needed to be a professional footballer to know the 3-5-2 formation was not working?

Trigger

The last page I've been like :

bangkok

Just because a player played professional football doesn't mean he knows more about football than someone who didn't.

Look at Andre villa boas and the teams he has managed and he never played football in his life.

Brendan Rogers never played football past 20

Caovyn Lineah

astradave wrote: »

The last page I've been like :

We moved the film forum here for a while.

Liam McPoyle

/reads last 40 odd posts


Fcuk sake.


So United, are we confident of getting a result this weekend?

Anyone take a draw now?

I reckon it will be a howler of a game, bore draw or a flukey winner.

I've no fear whatsoever though.

Hulk Hands

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Professional footballers know more than people who don't play football professionally. What is confusing you exactly?

There's a lad in the local in Galway who used to play for a number of teams in the league of Ireland. Absolute clown he is, usually roaring nonsensical stuff at the telly. Are you telling me his opinion on the game holds more weight than Andre Villas Boas?

MagicIRL

I think a draw is most likely, purely because José will close up shop and play the counter attacking game.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Just because a player played professional football doesn't mean he knows more about football than someone who didn't.

Look at Andre villa boas and the teams he has managed and he never played football in his life.

Brendan Rogers never played football past 20

While I agree in principle, those two are pretty much an exception rather than the rule with Managers. In saying that, there is so many Pro footballers that haven't a notion about the ins and outs of the game.

Down thru the leagues there would be so many that wouldn't have the mental capacity to make it at a bigger club with regards to everything from Diet, nutrition and tactical nous. To say that all pro footballers have more knowledge than anyone outside the game is just plain wrong. It seems the word professional is being used as describing the top tier of footballers and having no disregard for any players that are in the lower leagues or even a pro in LOI.

bangkok

In other news Man Utd are installing floodlights at the training ground to have afternoon and evening training

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32336458

Mars Bar

astradave wrote: »

The last page I've been like :

A David Mitchell gif?! You're now my new favourite poster!

Donnielighto

Pro. F wrote: »

If you don't have an opinion on what does and does not represent good value on a player then you really should not be arguing about it.

Also, the price we are talking about is £25m, not £20-25m and not 20m. Stop edging it down to bolster your argument.

Regarding the price of top level young players what are you thinking is value? Assuming no issue within the selling club and the player being widely recognised as a talent?

25M seems fair enough for Depay to me btw when the profile of the player will affect the price.

Caovyn Lineah

Hulk Hands wrote: »

There's a lad in the local in Galway who used to play for a number of teams in the league of Ireland. Absolute clown he is, usually roaring nonsensical stuff at the telly. Are you telling me his opinion on the game holds more weight than Andre Villas Boas?

Was he a professional footballer?

Quick edit here, it was already pointed out that AVB is very much a rarity in the football world.

Donnielighto

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Obviously big clubs bought all of these players - because only big clubs could have afforded them.

But doesnt that feed into the value issue? If the player isnt going for below that price then you wont get that player below that price.

I think an issue here is that some players move for relatively small amounts that then seem like a bargain but the profile and interest in the player hugely affects that. Chico was seen as a very good deal for utd after his first season but if he had been playing in europe before that he would probably have cost more.

MagicMarker

bangkok wrote: »

In other news Man Utd are installing floodlights at the training ground to have afternoon and evening training

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32336458

Wasn't this one of the first things LVG insisted on when he took over?

Donnielighto

bangkok wrote: »

if Depay was linked with a move to spurs or Liverpool for example no way would his asking price be 25m.

Its like when Juventus hear we were interested in Vidal last summer and the chairman comes out and says Vidal is worth 60m. He is worth no where near that, but he knows united have the money.

Its not even an argument its a fact of life.

While I agree about some issue you side on your posts make it hard to justify, other clubs have money, vidal was a top cm and you think juve valued him at below 60M but wouldnt cash in because UTD have money? If vidal was worth 30M why wouldnt juve have accepted less and replaced him?


In general btw lads, if the selling club doesnt want to sell the price is pretty much always going to be above "value," (which is transient anyway since it is based on opinions and not metrics fully) since the club have a player that you would assume is working in their system so replacing a 20M that works within the club stucture with a 20M player that you dont know will fit in doesnt make sense.

bangkok

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Was he a professional footballer?

Quick edit here, it was already pointed out that AVB is very much a rarity in the football world.

Brian Kerr and avram grant another 2 I can think of that never played professional football.

Caovyn Lineah

bangkok wrote: »

Brian Kerr and avram grant another 2 I can think of that never played professional football.

If you're going to use Google then Arrigo Sachi is a much better example than those 2.

Mars Bar

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

If you're going to use Google then Arrigo Sachi is a much better example than those 2.

I don't think Mourinho ever played professionally in the full sense of the word. His dad was a pro though so he would have been immersed in it since he was very young.

Rayne Wooney

Who really cares about Coutinho unless we're look for a 4th choice attacking midfield player he's pretty irrelevant

Maximus Alexander

Donnielighto wrote: »

But doesnt that feed into the value issue? If the player isnt going for below that price then you wont get that player below that price.

I think an issue here is that some players move for relatively small amounts that then seem like a bargain but the profile and interest in the player hugely affects that. Chico was seen as a very good deal for utd after his first season but if he had been playing in europe before that he would probably have cost more.

Yep, I agree. Transfers work just like 'normal' market forces. Players in demand cost more and as such end up at bigger clubs who can afford spend more. It's not a case of the seller looking at the buyer and saying "You're rich, the price goes up", because that would never work.

I'm sure someone could find examples of where that has happened, but that would be due to a massive failure on the part of the buying club, rather than it being a normal, sense-making practice.

If you imagine a world where United were the only team with any money for transfers, regardless of how rich United are they'd be picking up players for next to nothing because players want to play for United and there would be nothing to drive the price up. It's other clubs in the market that push the prices up, not United's wealth.

That's why it remains possible (if difficult) to unearth an unknown wunderkind in the back arse of Columbia and sign him for peanuts, because value is tied to demand, not talent.

Wealth just means United are one of the fortunate clubs that can afford to buy the outrageously expensive players.

I probably shouldn't be at this stage, but I'm surprised this even came up as an argument.

Caovyn Lineah

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Who really cares about Coutinho unless we're look for a 4th choice attacking midfield player he's pretty irrelevant

4th choice behind Mata and.................

Donnielighto

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I need to substantiate that professional footballers know more about their sport than you? You certainly have a very high opinion of yourself and your knowledge, sorry to ruin that for you.

A lot of the more talented players in sports dont actually know as much about it as lower players. Saying that someone who works in an area automatically knows more is pointless you have idiots and savants in all areas.

newballsplease

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

4th choice behind Mata and.................

DiMaria and Herrara id say....

Donnielighto

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Could you point out where I said this? I said a professional footballer knows more about football than an average joe soap sitting at home on a laptop or phone talking about it.

Not once did I mention the level of their footballing ability had anything to do with their knowledge of the game.

Did Marcus Horan know more about rugby than Warren Gatland?

Caovyn Lineah

Donnielighto wrote: »

Did Marcus Horan know more about rugby than Warren Gatland?

I'm not a rugby fan.

Caovyn Lineah

newballsplease wrote: »

DiMaria and Herrara id say....

Herrera is not an attacking midfielder.

Caovyn Lineah

bangkok wrote: »

No he is a goalkeeper

I don't get it.
Herrera is not an attacking midfielder in the Mata / Coutinho mould.

Oh you deleted your post, strange.

Sand

Only thing that surprised me is the idea that Dybala would cost significantly more than Depay - Dybala's contract expires in the summer of 2016 afaik and hes apparently refusing to sign a new one. Depay is contracted to 2018. Demand is clearly a factor, but a club with a long term contract is under much less pressure to supply unless the player forces the move.

Dybala will attract interest of course, but he'll be in the final year of his contract and has scored a total of 13 goals in what is a second rank league these days. Close to half of those were scored in a 5 week golden spell in November 2014. He scored 5 the season before, and 3 the season before that. If Real wants to spent 40 million+ on him in his final contract year and take all the inherent risks, I'd say let them. United's interest should be limited to bidding up so our rivals splurge more of their transfer budget on him. I don't see how he is significantly better than what Wilson could be with 50+ games under his belt.

Donnielighto

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

The driving force behind the team who won the premier league? Where's the problem?

I dont trust you.

yabadabado

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Herrera is not an attacking midfielder.

You never saw him playing for Bilbao so.

Backstreet Moyes

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Herrera is not an attacking midfielder.

Yet he has still had more key passes, goals and assists in ten less games from a deeper position.

Donnielighto

Mars Bar wrote: »

A David Mitchell gif?! You're now my new favourite poster!

I came in here yesterday to post that cat, saw it on imgur and then pow, you stole my thunder Mars.... I would forget easily

Caovyn Lineah

Nuts102 wrote: »

Yet he has still had more key passes, goals and assists in ten less games from a deeper position.

I'm fairly sure(without checking) that Gerrard has more goals than both from a deeper position, would you have him ahead of Herrera?

Donnielighto

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I'm fairly sure(without checking) that Gerrard has more goals than both from a deeper position, would you have him ahead of Herrera?

Are you counting penalties in that?


Caovyn, I think you might be mixing your own experiences of not playing pro football and your knowledge of the game with the rest of the people on here.

bangkok

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I don't get it.
Herrera is not an attacking midfielder in the Mata / Coutinho mould.

Oh you deleted your post, strange.

What position would you say Herrera plays because he is certainly not a defensive midfielder

Polo_Mint

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I'm fairly sure(without checking) that Gerrard has more goals than both from a deeper position, would you have him ahead of Herrera?

Isn't he a penalty taker

Caovyn Lineah

bangkok wrote: »

What position would you say Herrera plays because he is certainly not a defensive midfielder

Central midfield. How is that even in doubt?

Donnielighto

bangkok wrote: »

What position would you say Herrera plays because he is certainly not a defensive midfielder

He was left back on the bench for a good bit of the season :pac::D:pac:

#dadjokes