Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

someone on reddit

Probably the most perfect, brief analogy that I've seen to describe the difference between United now and this time last year....

someone on reddit wrote:

...It is amazing where we're at now. It's like last year we were overweight and struggling to get off the couch, eating pizzas and chips and all that goes with it. While now we hit the gym - still not doing the reps in a perfect form, but we're fúcking doing them. And results are happening.

Sand

keith16 wrote: »

I hate that image. A really shitty thing to do.

Yep, Moyes wasn't cut out for United, but when you get past the bull**** he was basically just a human being who didn't have the X factor to get extremely well paid professional footballers to perform to extraordinary levels. He must have been under incredible levels of stress through the last few months of his reign, and being the butt of various Paddy Power publicity campaigns cant have helped. I've never met the man but by all accounts he is a genuinely nice and decent person. I was in the "Huh, Moyes? Well, I guess Fergie knows what he's doing -> Moyes out" camp, but he got rough treatment.

Vic Vinegar

glued wrote: »

According to the usual United ITK Depay is as good as done. Fee agreed, personal terms pretty much sorted out.

Wouldn't be surprised to see all of our transfer activity done in the next few weeks.

Who is saying this? Anyone reliable or agent Edward?

Liam O

Sand wrote: »

Yep, Moyes wasn't cut out for United, but when you get past the bull**** he was basically just a human being who didn't have the X factor to get extremely well paid professional footballers to perform to extraordinary levels. He must have been under incredible levels of stress through the last few months of his reign, and being the butt of various Paddy Power publicity campaigns cant have helped. I've never met the man but by all accounts he is a genuinely nice and decent person. I was in the "Huh, Moyes? Well, I guess Fergie knows what he's doing -> Moyes out" camp, but he got rough treatment.

Is the x factor what they call £150m these days?

Headshot

No the X factor consist of actually ****ing knowing what your actually are doing. Having the right tactics. A history of winning trophies. Knowing your that damn good. Taking no ****e from the media. Know how to handle yourself at one of biggest clubs in the world. Having the respect of the players. Getting your team to play the best soccer in years. The list goes on and I'm tired

Sand

Liam O wrote: »

Is the x factor what they call £150m these days?

I don't think anyone can argue Moyes wasn't backed in the transfer market - he spent 65 million plus on two players in, what, 6 months? Neither of which were successful under Moyes reign. Any time he wanted to get a player, money was made available. The same is true for LVG except he has been more decisive and he has tended to get more out of the players he had and the players he brought in. Even when United were playing badly, you could always point to LVGs experience, titles and medals and know he would get it right. With Moyes...not the same.

The days of United being plucky underdogs operating on a shoestring but somehow outwitting the lumbering financial titans of the footballing world are over, if they ever existed. United are a top club, and the ambitions are rightly aimed at titles and European cups. In an era of TV deals so outrageous even those negotiating them are mildly shocked they were agreed, money is there to be spent.

I feel sorry for Moyes, but lets not kid ourselves - that he didn't leave Rio Ferdinand where he found him after that snide remark Rio made about teaching Moyes about management indicates to me that he was far to nice/patient/weak. That's a cancer in the dressing room. Fergie would have never stood for it, and LVG found no need for Ferdinands "experience" in the squad. At the end of the day, the United players neither feared nor respected Moyes. They respect LVG.

Liam O

Sand wrote: »

I don't think anyone can argue Moyes wasn't backed in the transfer market - he spent 65 million plus on two players in, what, 6 months? Neither of which were successful under Moyes reign. Any time he wanted to get a player, money was made available. The same is true for LVG except he has been more decisive and he has tended to get more out of the players he had and the players he brought in. Even when United were playing badly, you could always point to LVGs experience, titles and medals and know he would get it right. With Moyes...not the same.

The days of United being plucky underdogs operating on a shoestring but somehow outwitting the lumbering financial titans of the footballing world are over, if they ever existed. United are a top club, and the ambitions are rightly aimed at titles and European cups. In an era of TV deals so outrageous even those negotiating them are mildly shocked they were agreed, money is there to be spent.

I feel sorry for Moyes, but lets not kid ourselves - that he didn't leave Rio Ferdinand where he found him after that snide remark Rio made about teaching Moyes about management indicates to me that he was far to nice/patient/weak. That's a cancer in the dressing room. Fergie would have never stood for it, and LVG found no need for Ferdinands "experience" in the squad. At the end of the day, the United players neither feared nor respected Moyes. They respect LVG.

He could hardly stand up to them and risk open revolt when half the players were going to be leaving in the Summer. It was a joke how the team started the season, especially with regards defense. Would have been far better under Moyes. LVG stumbled into the current tactics and there's a chance that United could be in a title race if he'd not ignored Herrera and Mata for long periods of the season and not played silly tactics for a long time. It's a bit revisionist to say he's done well this season. A lot of it is to do with luck imo. There have been some bright sparks but he'll need to do a lot better for me next season .

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

Is the x factor what they call £150m these days?

The team that played against City, Spurs, Liverpool was same as last season except Blind.

Liam O

Giggsy11 wrote: »

The team that played against City, Spurs, Liverpool was same as last season except Blind.

Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Cleverley, Anderson, Nani etc. all not there anymore. The older players had packed it in and bar Nani and Kagawa, none of the players who left had any business still being in the squad. Mata was only signed in January and Fellaini was injured most of the season. Anyone who came in would have struggled. Moyes didn't make it easy for himself and played into the hands of his detractors but I'm unsure if even Mourinho could have gotten top 4 with that group last season. The idea of dropping RVP for Fellaini would have been laughed at towards the end of last season, now most would be the opposite opinion which shows just how much some have declined in the time since Fergie left.

LVG was given big money and out of the 4 signings that he has made (not including Herrera and Shaw because they'd have been coming regardless), the 2 that have looked the best have been the 2 that were the cheapest. He's failed to get the best out of 2 of the best attacking players in the league and his poor If he completely misjudges the situation again this Summer it could be a mess. He has found what works but I have a feeling that he is going to go completely against it in the window. With big money I'd want some players who can do it beyond LVG's time here and I was a bit thrown by some of the short-termist thinking last season. Shaw is being stunted in development and players are unseen from for weeks for no reason. He has turned it around in recent weeks but it took an injury to RVP to luck into the current tactics and team selections. I'm obviously happy with how it is going now but am very wary of this summer and beyond.

dahat

Giggsy11 wrote: »

The team that played against City, Spurs, Liverpool was same as last season except Blind.

And Moyes.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Cleverley, Anderson, Nani etc. all not there anymore. The older players had packed it in and bar Nani and Kagawa, none of the players who left had any business still being in the squad. Mata was only signed in January and Fellaini was injured most of the season. Anyone who came in would have struggled. Moyes didn't make it easy for himself and played into the hands of his detractors but I'm unsure if even Mourinho could have gotten top 4 with that group last season. The idea of dropping RVP for Fellaini would have been laughed at towards the end of last season, now most would be the opposite opinion which shows just how much some have declined in the time since Fergie left.

End of the day Van Gaal has the balls to drop any player and he proved it by dropping Falcao, RVP and also Di Maria. All the players left, Moyes had the chance to drop them if he thought they were not up to the mark. The group that won league title at canter won't even finish top 4 with Jose? He knows how to work with experienced players. Just because Moyes failed to bring best out of players doesn't mean everyone would. Some managers like players are comfortable at midtable clubs.

[LVG was given big money and out of the 4 signings that he has made (not including Herrera and Shaw because they'd have been coming regardless), the 2 that have looked the best have been the 2 that were the cheapest.

Why it matters how much they cost? He is not involved in the negotiations. Its for Woodward to negotiate that. It doesn't matter the cheapest signings are the best, at least they are playing well.

He's failed to get the best out of 2 of the best attacking players in the league and his poor If he completely misjudges the situation again this Summer it could be a mess.

Falcao is done so rightly dropped and now Di Maria won't be back to his best next season? How is that misjudging situation? Any team would be mad to turn down player like Di Maria. He had issues on and off the field but he contributes a lot in the final third when he plays. Next season with proper pre season and a year in the league, he will be back to his best.

He has found what works but I have a feeling that he is going to go completely against it in the window. With big money I'd want some players who can do it beyond LVG's time here and I was a bit thrown by some of the short-termist thinking last season

First part is pure assumption with nothing to back it up.

Shot team thinking? Players like Shaw, Herrera, Blind, Rojo, Di Maria are not short term thinking. Except Di Maria others have at least 8-10 years left at top level.

Shaw is being stunted in development and players are unseen from for weeks for no reason

.

Reason being lack of games, thanks to David Moyes. Shaw stunted in development? That's such a melodramatic post, he was injured for most part and when he was back Blind was playing supebly in that position.

He has turned it around in recent weeks but it took an injury to RVP to luck into the current tactics and team selections. I'm obviously happy with how it is going now but am very wary of this summer and beyond.

Luck? If anything he was unlucky with players unavailability to play his preferred formation. You don't just stumble upon a tactic in football. You need a proper work behind the scenes to make it work and the way we are playing is plain fully obvious for everyone how much work is done.

Nailz

Giggsy11 wrote: »

The team that played against City, Spurs, Liverpool was same as last season except Blind.

Has everyone forgotten about Herrera or something?

Giggsy11

Nailz wrote: »

Has everyone forgotten about Herrera or something?

Yeah forgot about him.

So except Blind and Herrera it was the same team as last season.

Liam McPoyle

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yeah forgot about him.

So except Blind and Herrera it was the same team as last season.

Same players amigo, not the same team.

Polo_Mint

I would think there is going to be big changes again in the summer with a very new look united starting the PL and CL next season.

exciting times ahead.

Backstreet Moyes

One thing about Moyes he signed Fellaini, Mata, more or less Herrera and Shaw but he wasn't up to the job. He tried his best anyone that has any dislike for the man needs a long look at themselves, he was a good manager out of his depth who since leaving has done nothing but praise the club.

Polo_Mint

Nuts102 wrote: »

One thing about Moyes he signed Fellaini, Mata, more or less Herrera and Shaw but he wasn't up to the job. He tried his best anyone that has any dislike for the man needs a long look at themselves, he was a good manager out of his depth who since leaving has done nothing but praise the club.

Absolutely hes a good manager, He was just the wrong manager for us

MagicIRL

Moyes' only fault was not being a big team manager. A gent and a great manager in his own right- what he did with Everton is spectacular (lol@Wigan), and he's reaping rewards in Spain now too.

Perhaps, in time, he'll progress in his own career and we'll once again see him managing at the top level in European football.

Giggsy11

Nuts102 wrote: »

One thing about Moyes he signed Fellaini, Mata, more or less Herrera and Shaw but he wasn't up to the job. He tried his best anyone that has any dislike for the man needs a long look at themselves, he was a good manager out of his depth who since leaving has done nothing but praise the club.

I don't think anyone 'hates or dislike' Moyes but they don't like the job he did at ManUtd.

It was best for all parties that he was sacked.

bangkok

I don't think it mattered who followed Alex Ferguson as manager, they were on a hiding to nothing. I also don't think moyes was backed 100% in the transfer market.

He wanted Fabregas, the club bid 26m and then 28m instead of going all out and bidding 30-35m. it ended up with Fellaini rushing over from Liverpool to sign a deal at 2.30am or something like that and costing 27m, 1m more than the original bid for fabregas. He also made it clear he wanted Baines as well and the club bid 20m for both. ridiculous offer.

when you think we spent 60m on di maria and could have signed both Fabregas and Kroos for less that that, 2 players moyes wanted

Polo_Mint

FYI

Sand

Liam O wrote: »

He could hardly stand up to them and risk open revolt when half the players were going to be leaving in the Summer.

That's exactly why he could have. Ferdinand in particular had hugely declined and would have been the perfect target for Moyes to establish his authority in the squad.

It was a joke how the team started the season, especially with regards defense. Would have been far better under Moyes.

You're assuming that based on no evidence whatsoever - Moyes had clearly lost the dressing room, and there was never any performances that indicated any trend of improvement.

LVG stumbled into the current tactics and there's a chance that United could be in a title race if he'd not ignored Herrera and Mata for long periods of the season and not played silly tactics for a long time. It's a bit revisionist to say he's done well this season. A lot of it is to do with luck imo. There have been some bright sparks but he'll need to do a lot better for me next season .

LVG has won 7 league titles,3 domestic cups, and 2 European trophies including the Champions League and managed a very average Dutch side to a 3rd place finish in the 2014 world cup. Describing him as having "stumbled" onto 4-3-3 by "luck" when it's been his default formation for almost his entire career isn't correct imo.

The 3-5-2 formation he played and the player selections he made were perfectly understandable given he didn't believe he had the players to play 4-3-3, and for many weeks barely had 3 defenders to select from, Carrick has been unavailable as often as he has been playing, and he hoped to find a way to unleash RVP and Falcao as a front two. It didn't work, and you could disagree with some of the decisions but he was trying to make the best of the squad he had. Some of the early performances were incredibly poor, to a level so low that it went far beyond players struggling with a formation. There is a basic level of performance a player has to take responsibility for themselves. The answer wasn't simply to get Mata and Herrera on the pitch. Mata was a starter back in August, playing full games against Swansea, Sunderland and Burnley. Herrera started against Swansea and played most of the game and then had several injuries in August and October. And United were playing muck, with shocking results, even with them on the pitch.

And its revisionist to talk about title races now - at the start of the season the agreed target by the club, and practically all fans, was to rebuild the squad, get a top 4 finish and to start playing good football. United look to have top 4 secured, the squad is far stronger now than the one Moyes left behind and the team are playing good football. Installing new targets with hindsight isn't right. 8 more points from the last 5 games and LVG will have accomplished exactly what was set out for him at the start of the year.

During the summer I expect LVG to further strengthen the team, and I think we can talk about a title challenge next season.

v3ttel

Headshot wrote: »

Knowing your that damn good. Taking no ****e from the media.

I would definitely pay to see a lot of those rag journalists get pedigreed.

adox

Moyes got too long at the club. Should have been gone by Christmas at the latest and Van Gaal might have taken over a team competing in the CL. Certainly not the mess of a club he did take charge of in the summer.

Moyes wasnt the only guilty party but his head was the only solution.
That the board didnt have the balls to do what was right at the right time set the club back at least a couple of seasons.

andyman

adox wrote: »

Moyes got too long at the club. Should have been gone by Christmas at the latest and Van Gaal might have taken over a team competing in the CL. Certainly not the mess of a club he did take charge of in the summer.

Moyes wasnt the only guilty party but his head was the only solution.
That the board didnt have the balls to do what was right at the right time set the club back at least a couple of seasons.

That I disagree with. Every manager should be given a fair chance when going to a new club. If that was your logic then LVG should have been gone by Christmas too.

I have a lot of respect for Moyes. He's been nothing but grateful for the opportunity and when you compare him to the sour grapes of Sherwood when he didn't get the Spurs job it speaks volumes.

adox

andyman wrote: »

That I disagree with. Every manager should be given a fair chance when going to a new club. If that was your logic then LVG should have been gone by Christmas too.

I have a lot of respect for Moyes. He's been nothing but grateful for the opportunity and when you compare him to the sour grapes of Sherwood when he didn't get the Spurs job it speaks volumes.

Read my post again. its not a blue print for hiring and firing managers, it was addressed specifically to the appointment and dismissal of Moyes.

Mitch Connor

the talk at the time is that the people behind the scenes were not happy with the direction the club was going in terms of training and youth development under Moyes - which was a factor in his firing.

At the point Fergie could have been sacked, or LVG earlier in this seasons - their was faith that the club were moving in the right direction and things would eventually turn for us.

Of course they could be the whispers of hindsight trying to justify decisions by making up reasonings that didn't occur for any of the three.

Unearthly

Moyes was never going to work. Even though the league had just been won, hearing that SAF had retired, AND then replaced by Moyes were 2 hammer blows for me.

I don't hate him, I just don't want him as a manager at my club

v3ttel

Nuts102 wrote: »

He tried his best anyone that has any dislike for the man needs a long look at themselves, he was a good manager out of his depth who since leaving has done nothing but praise the club.

Absolutely agree with this.

He has a reputation for being a hard-working and honest guy. The public ridiculing of him by PP and others was disgraceful. He was doing everything he could to turn his fortunes around. He is not a top level manager, but clearly not the clueless idiot that people were trying to portrait him as.

I was happy when he got job at a good club like Real Sociedad and I'd be very happy to see him be successful there. Always kept an eye out for their results since he joined them.

andyman

adox wrote: »

Read my post again. its not a blue print for hiring and firing managers, it was addressed specifically to the appointment and dismissal of Moyes.

I've read it a few times but that's the first time you've said it's not a blueprint for hiring and firing managers.

Moyes quite rightly in my opinion got the opportunity to redeem himself, he didn't and was sacked.

You're talking in complete hindsight here, but to give a manager 6 months to try and emulate the greatest ever isn't time enough. Nowhere near.

It wouldn't have been a fair crack of the whip at all.

adox

andyman wrote: »

I've read it a few times but that's the first time you've said it's not a blueprint for hiring and firing managers.

Moyes quite rightly in my opinion got the opportunity to redeem himself, he didn't and was sacked.

You're talking in complete hindsight here, but to give a manager 6 months to try and emulate the greatest ever isn't time enough. Nowhere near.

It wouldn't have been a fair crack of the whip at all.

I`m not speaking in hindsight though. I`m repeating what I posted on here at the time.

TheDoc

v3ttel wrote: »

Absolutely agree with this.

He has a reputation for being a hard-working and honest guy. The public ridiculing of him by PP and others was disgraceful. He was doing everything he could to turn his fortunes around. He is not a top level manager, but clearly not the clueless idiot that people were trying to portrait him as.

I was happy when he got job at a good club like Real Sociedad and I'd be very happy to see him be successful there. Always kept an eye out for their results since he joined them.

Considering he never got the financial backing in the transfer market Van Gaal did, I don't see why its ground to keep going over. He flagged major issues in the squad, club were caught on the hop and hadn't got financials in place for expenditure, and eventually Van Gaal benefited.

when you look at the sort of targets and ideas Moyes had, entirely possible he could have worked out, as likely it would be he wouldn't.

All about timing for managers now in my view. There is no great managers, just great timing. (its a phrase, dont take it literally). Moyes time just wasn't right, could well have a second crack of the whip somewhere else to be honest.

Moving to Spain was a clever decision.

Manutd_4life

Yay or nay

Angel Di Maria has told Louis van Gaal that he wants to stay at Manchester United for the long term & doesn't want to leave. [Daily Mirror]


Despite the source i think it is true he wants to stay. Hopefully he can come good in the last few games and have an amazing one next season

Polo_Mint

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Yay or nay

Angel Di Maria has told Louis van Gaal that he wants to stay at Manchester United for the long term & doesn't want to leave. [Daily Mirror]


Despite the source i think it is true he wants to stay. Hopefully he can come good in the last few games and have an amazing one next season

Yep I hope he stays. He just needs to reset himself in pre-season

andyman

Not every player can adapt to the league right away.

His attitude has been outstanding. Hasn't moaned or whinged about being benched because he knows he hasn't been good enough.

The fact he wants to stay despite everything says a lot about him too. He's eager to prove everyone wrong and be a success.

bangkok

andyman wrote: »

Not every player can adapt to the league right away.

His attitude has been outstanding. Hasn't moaned or whinged about being benched because he knows he hasn't been good enough.

The fact he wants to stay despite everything says a lot about him too. He's eager to prove everyone wrong and be a success.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/215/d/1/the_million_dollar_man_by_bronyfanmlp-d59pyn3.jpg

Do you think he would go destitute elsewhere? He'd probably pick up the same coin at PSG. I would be surprised if money is his reason for staying.

The_Kew_Tour

On SSN now

Chris Smalling signs new contract till 2019

Cookiemunster

Well Smalling won't be going anywhere this summer. He's just signed a new 4 year contract.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/590515421507416065

ElChe32

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

On SSN now

Chris Smalling signs new contract till 2019

Since returning from suspension after the City away game Smalling has been our best defender. Happy that he's signed up.

jayo26

Smallin signs new contrct until summer 2019, hopefully he kicks on no wth his form and can stay clear of imjuries.

Cookiemunster

Now a new contract for Dave please Ed.

Mitch Connor

ElChe32 wrote: »

Since returning from suspension after the City away game Smalling has been our best defender. Happy that he's signed up.

h was our best defender leading up to that game too - real pity fe f'd up that City game.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do you think he would go destitute elsewhere? He'd probably pick up the same coin at PSG. I would be surprised if money is his reason for staying.

ah no he probably wants to prove himself, class player, big season next year although the copa America in the summer wont really help as he will miss most of the pre season

Always felt he could get to this level, very happy he's signed on for another 4 years. A combination of being tall, strong and really fast is pretty damn rare in a defender. He'll only improve.

Maximus Alexander

Deleted User wrote: »

Always felt he could get to this level, very happy he's signed on for another 4 years. A combination of being tall, strong and really fast is pretty damn rare in a defender. He'll only improve.

And if not, that contract and his Englishness means that if he gets sold later:

Mitch Connor

Jones, Evans, Young and De Gea the players left with a year on their contracts.

Would imagine Jones, Young and Evans would all be tied up easily enough should we want to keep them (Jones and Young will sign new deals very soon I reckon).

Can see Evans being allowed to run it down and leave, with a CB or two coming in during the summer window.

Just don't see De Gea staying - and I really worry who we are going to try to replace him with.

Manutd_4life

Out of Jones, Rojo, Evans, Smalling, Mcnair and Blackett, I would only keep Smalling and Rojo.


Maybe a bit harsh on mcnair and blackett as they haven't played much but evans and jones can hopefully f off this summer.

Happy Smalling is nailed down for the long term future.

Manutd_4life

Louis van Gaal: "Chris has improved and developed immensely during my time at the club, becoming an integral part of the first-team squad."

bangkok

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Out of Jones, Rojo, Evans, Smalling, Mcnair and Blackett, I would only keep Smalling and Rojo.


Maybe a bit harsh on mcnair and blackett as they haven't played much but evans and jones can hopefully f off this summer.

Happy Smalling is nailed down for the long term future.

we are short in that area already and you would like to see them go? not a chance either will be sold