Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Lord TSC

Julez wrote: »

Partick Roberts*

I only know because I had him for a few years in football manager!

No, no. I stick by what I said. We're trying to buy the actor who played Terminator in T2.

:P

You are of course right. My bad. I actually have him in the Soccer Manager game I play so should know his name....

Backstreet Moyes

Yesterday just highlighted what i thought about the midfield. Daley Blind is a nice character but he hasn't a patch on Carrick and is not good enough to start cm for United. The team as a whole yesterday was poor but it was evident how open we were without Carrick.

How many times did Everton stroll through the center and the defence exposed. We badly need Carrick back and we need somebody brought in next season to battle with Carrick.

This season has just highlighted the importance of Carrick for the last few years. Vastly underrated by most and another mess up by England for not having him in the side the last few years.

DARK-KNIGHT

if its a leader on the pitch or an orchestrator do you think pogba is the man for thew job? as much as i would love pogba playing for us if its carricks role a player like strootman is a hell of a lot more suited as more experienced...

although pogba is a beast...

Backstreet Moyes

I can't say i have seen enough of Gundogan but for me Scneiderlen has everything i think he would be perfect.

homerjay2005

Nuts102 wrote: »

Yesterday just highlighted what i thought about the midfield. Daley Blind is a nice character but he hasn't a patch on Carrick and is not good enough to start cm for United. The team as a whole yesterday was poor but it was evident how open we were without Carrick.

How many times did Everton stroll through the center and the defence exposed. We badly need Carrick back and we need somebody brought in next season to battle with Carrick.

This season has just highlighted the importance of Carrick for the last few years. Vastly underrated by most and another mess up by England for not having him in the side the last few years.

while of course Carrick is important to us, i dont think the problem yesterday was midfield.
we had 65% of possession yesterday, i think the real issue lay in the final 3rd. mata, Young, Fellaini, Rooney, then Falcao and Di Maria all played absolutely awful when it came to actually creating top class chances.

Everton having 11 behind the ball and brain-farts from Mcnair, the ref and Valencia (plus Shaw going awol for the first 2 counter attacks with led to goals 1 and 2) also contributed.

Polo_Mint

Happy Birthday Paddy. The Big 20 today

irishfeen

Mallagio wrote: »

Rarely watch that but I use to love it when it was Premiere.

They have a Sky Thrones HD channel running at the minute - I'm flat out watching it

Backstreet Moyes

homerjay2005 wrote: »

while of course Carrick is important to us, i dont think the problem yesterday was midfield.
we had 65% of possession yesterday, i think the real issue lay in the final 3rd. mata, Young, Fellaini, Rooney, then Falcao and Di Maria all played absolutely awful when it came to actually creating top class chances.

Everton having 11 behind the ball and brain-farts from Mcnair, the ref and Valencia (plus Shaw going awol for the first 2 counter attacks with led to goals 1 and 2) also contributed.

You make some valid points but what was evident from yesterday for me was how exposed the defence was from Everton attacks. Carrick protects the back four so well that it's easy to take him for granted because you only notice it when he is gone.

I read some where yesterday something like we have won 70% of the games Carrick has played and 30% of games without him. It could be wrong think i seen it on Facebook.

kstand

We conceded 2 goals down to mistakes from Valencia (lost his man for the corner and then did a Mikael Silvestre on it by being caught 10 yards out of position for the third goal). And Paddy McNair was more or less at fault for the first goal - not going to the ball quick enough then a wild swing at the ball instead of going in hard and winning it. Thats what cost us - it was the same the last day against Chelsea - opened up because Valencia was out of position and Herrara never tracked the run of Hazard. Essentially it is down to 2 simple facts - Valencia is not and never was a full back and Paddy McNair is a rookie and is nowhere near good enough for the top level yet. Compare that back 4 yesterday with Neville-Ferdinand-Vidic-Evra. It says it all.

We had the same problem then with the ball as we had with Chelsea - they both defended identically sitting deep and inviting us on - but we had our chances. There was no way Everton were 3 goals the better team.

Backstreet Moyes

kstand wrote: »

We conceded 2 goals down to mistakes from Valencia (lost his man for the corner and then did a Mikael Silvestre on it by being caught 10 yards out of position for the third goal). And Paddy McNair was more or less at fault for the first goal - not going to the ball quick enough then a wild swing at the ball instead of going in hard and winning it. Thats what cost us - it was the same the last day against Chelsea - opened up because Valencia was out of position and Herrara never tracked the run of Hazard. Essentially it is down to 2 simple facts - Valencia is not and never was a full back and Paddy McNair is a rookie and is nowhere near good enough for the top level yet. Compare that back 4 yesterday with Neville-Ferdinand-Vidic-Evra. It says it all.

We had the same problem then with the ball as we had with Chelsea - they both defended identically sitting deep and inviting us on - but we had our chances. There was no way Everton were 3 goals the better team.

Probably seems like im being over critical on Blind today but i actually like the guy think he can do a squad role. But i don't think he covered himself in glory for the first goal same as McNair he made such a weak attempt of a tackle.

bangkok

rooney could be gone for rest of season?

MagicIRL

James Wilson, here to save the day! (Sung to the tune of Transformers)

Donnielighto

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

You said he wasnt the problem so you thought we only had one problem was it?
Hardly bollox mate but you keep blaming rooney over a 3-0 loss I'll blame someone at fault for the goals.

I really thought the bad language added to your point you should keep that up.

Still think Falcao wouldnt make it in league 2.

Fancy a wager on weather he ends up in a top league next season or the goals he will score I'll do it not knowing where he will end up. You should have no trouble as he wouldt mahe it in league 2 mate

I don't know anything about you other than your posting style.

I find your posting style is aggressive and annoyingly and intentionally antagonistic.

ericzeking

The thing about Carrick is that stuff doesn't even get to the stage where someone (eg Valencia or Herrera or Shaw) is evidently out of position when he is on the pitch because his positioning and reading of the game are so good that he has the gaps filled before we, as fans, even see them.

You almost never see that frantic chase back of a counter attack that we saw yesterday when he is on the pitch...I only saw the highlights yesterday but the first thing that popped into my head last night watching them was the Leicester 5-3 game.

bucketybuck

kstand wrote: »

Paddy McNair is a rookie and is nowhere near good enough for the top level yet.

Paddy McNair concerns me, even for a rookie he has such massive swings in performance level and you just cannot afford that at this level.

kstand

Nuts102 wrote: »

Probably seems like im being over critical on Blind today but i actually like the guy think he can do a squad role. But i don't think he covered himself in glory for the first goal same as McNair he made such a weak attempt of a tackle.

I have question marks over his pace. He's a good option top have though and was good value for the price he came at.

kstand

bucketybuck wrote: »

Paddy McNair concerns me, even for a rookie he has such massive swings in performance level and you just cannot afford that at this level.

In his first few games he had time on the ball as it came to him and just hacked it away first time rather than take a touch and look up. I think he needs a season on loan somewhere.

Liam O

Nuts102 wrote: »

Probably seems like im being over critical on Blind today but i actually like the guy think he can do a squad role. But i don't think he covered himself in glory for the first goal same as McNair he made such a weak attempt of a tackle.

I think Blind left it because McNair had the angle on the ball but he completely fluffed his swing at the ball. I think people are being harsh on Blind and a bit easy on McNair for yesterday. Blind got beaten high up the pitch a few times but was playing quite positively for at least the first half which was good to see. McNair I thought was awful, felt beforehand it could have been one of those days for him. A few panicky clearances and generally not as comfortable as you'd like to see.

Still no news about Evans which is a bit annoying as I think him and Smalling would have been a solid pairing yesterday. Definitely a day for more experienced heads. Mata and Fellaini going off while Young remained on was also a big factor imo. I thought Mata did well enough and Fellaini has done well on a yellow recently. I feel like LVG was just waiting for an excuse to drop Fellaini and may have gotten his wish.

bangkok

Liam O wrote: »

I think Blind left it because McNair had the angle on the ball but he completely fluffed his swing at the ball. I think people are being harsh on Blind and a bit easy on McNair for yesterday. Blind got beaten high up the pitch a few times but was playing quite positively for at least the first half which was good to see. McNair I thought was awful, felt beforehand it could have been one of those days for him. A few panicky clearances and generally not as comfortable as you'd like to see.

Still no news about Evans which is a bit annoying as I think him and Smalling would have been a solid pairing yesterday. Definitely a day for more experienced heads. Mata and Fellaini going off while Young remained on was also a big factor imo. I thought Mata did well enough and Fellaini has done well on a yellow recently. I feel like LVG was just waiting for an excuse to drop Fellaini and may have gotten his wish.

I gave LVG a call there on Sunday around 2.15....

The Moldy Gowl

kstand wrote: »

I have question marks over his pace. He's a good option top have though and was good value for the price he came at.

He is quick enough. Watched run back to his box when they were attacking down the wing.
By no means slow

Pro. F

McNair made a few mistakes, but he still looked very promising to me.

I see a lot of complaints about how Rooney did up front yesterday. Can anybody point out what he was doing wrong or what he wasn't doing enough of, or are these complaints more of an emotional reaction to a poor result?

UnitedIrishman

Pro. F wrote: »

McNair made a few mistakes, but he still looked very promising to me.

I see a lot of complaints about how Rooney did up front yesterday. Can anybody point out what he was doing wrong or what he wasn't doing enough of, or are these complaints more of an emotional reaction to a poor result?

Only issue I had with Rooney yesterday was his first touch in or around the box. It was very poor at times when we were trying to do something else other than just whip balls into the box. When Mata and Herrera were trying to play short balls in or around the middle to to him, there were a few times it went astray and allowed Everton clear/counter.

Don't think people realise how hard it is to try play against sides who setup like Everton did. You can't play balls in behind because the gap between defenders and keeper is so narrow. You can't play through the middle because they've filtered everyone back to that area and have given up the wings. Their midfield and defence is on top of each other so there's not even space for the front man to drop off in between the lines all the time. So then they're just loving our wide players whip balls in because Jagielka and Stones are excellent in the air. When the ball went wide too, the defenders dropped right back toward goal so it also brought Howard into play in terms of coming for crosses. Stoke used to do the same thing regularly with the likes of Huth and Shawcross.

All that said, we were poor - there's no getting away from that.

RobertKK

There were no killer passes for Rooney or Falcao to work with.

The wingers and the full backs were not putting the balls into the strikers to score.

Everton should get credit for the top defending they did, but the team lacked ideas to how to change the game.

When the team did get shots on goal, they were directly at the goalkeeper.

Everton at Goodison have been our bogey team for the last while.

kstand

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

He is quick enough. Watched run back to his box when they were attacking down the wing.
By no means slow

He's very slow on the turn - not so slow when into his stride but when he's turned he's caught for a yard.

A Brad Maddox Guy

Pro. F wrote: »

McNair made a few mistakes, but he still looked very promising to me.

I see a lot of complaints about how Rooney did up front yesterday. Can anybody point out what he was doing wrong or what he wasn't doing enough of, or are these complaints more of an emotional reaction to a poor result?

I thought he was quite slow to react a number of times in the first half hour. His anticipation was a bit off and it led to normally good passes looking poor because Rooney wasn't getting there ahead of the defenders. Everton still defended quite well but Rooney wasn't the toughest striker to deal with.

Once it went 2-0 though performance levels dropped all round and we were very easy to defend against.

irishfeen

Liam O wrote: »

I think Blind left it because McNair had the angle on the ball but he completely fluffed his swing at the ball. I think people are being harsh on Blind and a bit easy on McNair for yesterday. Blind got beaten high up the pitch a few times but was playing quite positively for at least the first half which was good to see. McNair I thought was awful, felt beforehand it could have been one of those days for him. A few panicky clearances and generally not as comfortable as you'd like to see.

Still no news about Evans which is a bit annoying as I think him and Smalling would have been a solid pairing yesterday. Definitely a day for more experienced heads. Mata and Fellaini going off while Young remained on was also a big factor imo. I thought Mata did well enough and Fellaini has done well on a yellow recently. I feel like LVG was just waiting for an excuse to drop Fellaini and may have gotten his wish.

The only reason he took Fellani off at HT was because the ref was giving him nothing and he was one tackle away from a second yellow IMO ... I think we actually played a lot worse without him but LVG rightly IMO thought its best to keep him for the next match.

Pro. F

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Only issue I had with Rooney yesterday was his first touch in or around the box. It was very poor at times when we were trying to do something else other than just whip balls into the box. When Mata and Herrera were trying to play short balls in or around the middle to to him, there were a few times it went astray and allowed Everton clear/counter.

I don't remember his touch being poor. I thought his hold up play was excellent yesterday and I don't remember him giving the ball away cheaply.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Don't think people realise how hard it is to try play against sides who setup like Everton did. You can't play balls in behind because the gap between defenders and keeper is so narrow. You can't play through the middle because they've filtered everyone back to that area and have given up the wings. Their midfield and defence is on top of each other so there's not even space for the front man to drop off in between the lines all the time. So then they're just loving our wide players whip balls in because Jagielka and Stones are excellent in the air. When the ball went wide too, the defenders dropped right back toward goal so it also brought Howard into play in terms of coming for crosses. Stoke used to do the same thing regularly with the likes of Huth and Shawcross.

All that said, we were poor - there's no getting away from that.

I agree. I think we're lacking somebody to dribble past a few defenders and open them up that way. Also, we could do with a long range shooter imo, we don't really have anybody who's particularly good at that.

Like everybody is saying, we also need somebody better than Blind to cover or compete with Carrick.

Pro. F

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

I thought he was quite slow to react a number of times in the first half hour. His anticipation was a bit off and it led to normally good passes looking poor because Rooney wasn't getting there ahead of the defenders. Everton still defended quite well but Rooney wasn't the toughest striker to deal with.

Once it went 2-0 though performance levels dropped all round and we were very easy to defend against.

I don't remember that myself. I'll have a watch of the first half hour again.

Trond

The McNair thing is just going around in circles at this stage. Last week he was excellent this week hes "not good enough". The answer is obviously somewhere in between.

He's clearly a promising young player who the manager has seen something in. Plus the fact hes only playing as a defender for 18 months or so has to stand for something.

Mistakes are part of the course when starting a 19 year old at this level. Its the same for everyone. Theres no teenage centre backs who play consistently. Varane has had some nightmares for Madrid as well.

The Moldy Gowl

Utd are missing a dribbler, someone like hazard or Ronaldo.

You can have all the silky passers in the world but when there is 11 players behind the ball, the isn't going anywhere, no matter how many 'killer passes' goes on, the ball isn't going very far.

Pro. F

Trond wrote: »

The McNair thing is just going around in circles at this stage. Last week he was excellent this week hes "not good enough". The answer is obviously somewhere in between.

He's clearly a promising young player who the manager has seen something in. Plus the fact hes only playing as a defender for 18 months or so has to stand for something.

Mistakes are part of the course when starting a 19 year old at this level. Its the same for everyone. Theres no teenage centre backs who play consistently. Varane has had some nightmares for Madrid as well.

I'd say you also have to wait until the back four have played a run of games together before you can really judge them. CBs of all ages take time to settle into a defence.

superfurry1

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Utd are missing a dribbler, someone like hazard or Ronaldo.

You can have all the silky passers in the world but when there is 11 players behind the ball, the isn't going anywhere, no matter how many 'killer passes' goes on, the ball isn't going very far.

Di Maria? :P

The Moldy Gowl

RobertKK wrote: »

There were no killer passes for Rooney or Falcao to work with.

The wingers and the full backs were not putting the balls into the strikers to score.

Everton should get credit for the top defending they did, but the team lacked ideas to how to change the game.

When the team did get shots on goal, they were directly at the goalkeeper.

Everton at Goodison have been our bogey team for the last while.

What do you mean by killer passes?? Through balls?
Everton were sitting on their box so any through ball would had to go past 2 banks of players, then not to mention Howard would be on that ball fast.

Chip over the top? Wasnt going to work.

Everton played very well yesterday and the early goal made it easy for them to sit back and counter knowing utd would need to commit their full backs so being left with Smalling and an inexperienced 19 year old chasing a game.
This utd team needs space to play.

Liam O

I'd prefer to see McNair moulded into a DM rather than a CB. Don't think he really has the aerial presence to become a consistent option at the back.

The Moldy Gowl

superfurry1 wrote: »

Di Maria? :P

Which is why I imagine he was signed. I was hoping he would come on after 30 minutes yesterday. Everton's plan was clear after 20 minutes

RedemptionZ

Nani is still an option isn't he?

v3ttel

I'd really like McNair to make it. However, he is NOT a CB.

He looked like a young talented U21 attacking midfielder playing at CB at the top level, yesterday. Comfortable with the ball at his feet and can pick out a pass and run with it, but unsure positionally, unable to dominate physically and very nervous when defending knowing that if he makes a mistake, it'll likely cost a goal.

I thought his performance yesterday (defensively), was very poor. He looks very good when stepping into midfield though. I think he has a future at United, but not as a CB. I would see him turning into a good RB working with a good defensive coach in a well drilled team. He is very comfortable running with the ball and can use it intelligently.

OctavarIan

So long as Young and Valencia are on the wings we'll struggle to break down teams that park the bus. Valencia offers nothing going forward since all he can do is a hard low cross (not much cop in a packed box) or a diagonal back pass (exactly where the other team wants the ball). Defensively his positioning isn't good enough to be a dependable solution at right-back either.

Young is a bit better at crossing but like Valencia he's very limited. Would much rather see Di Maria in for Young against teams that park the bus. People can argue defensive contribution but neither player is going to contribute much defensively when chasing back down the field during an opposition counter attack.

ElChe32

The thing with Valencia that annoys me most is he's so shockingly one footed. Even for the simplest of movements with the ball it's only on the right foot. Truly limits passing and slows our tempo no end.

KH25

I personally can't see what Fergie, Moyes and LVG see in Valencia. He hasn't looked anything beyond alright for years at this stage. Defensively he's too suspect to be a RB and he appears to be scared of taking his man on when attacking so he just smashes the ball and hopes for the best.

He needs to be at best a backup at this point.

bangkok

KH25 wrote: »

I personally can't see what Fergie, Moyes and LVG see in Valencia. He hasn't looked anything beyond alright for years at this stage. Defensively he's too suspect to be a RB and he appears to be scared of taking his man on when attacking so he just smashes the ball and hopes for the best.

He needs to be at best a backup at this point.

in fairness to Valencia, he was excellent until he broke his leg.

Never came back the same although he is doing an ok job a the moment, just not good enough offensively

3hn2givr7mx1sc

bangkok wrote: »

in fairness to Valencia, he was excellent until he broke his leg.

Never came back the same although he is doing an ok job a the moment, just not good enough offensively

That's a common misconception. He broke it in 2011. In 2012 he won Man United's Fan's Player of the Year, Player's Player of the Year and Goal of the Year.

MythicalMadMan

Donnielighto wrote: »

I don't know anything about you other than your posting style.

I find your posting style is aggressive and annoyingly and intentionally antagonistic.

You got that from one post fair play to you. I hope you dont make all your judgemenrs as rashly in life, have a good day buddy.

Pro. F

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

I thought he was quite slow to react a number of times in the first half hour. His anticipation was a bit off and it led to normally good passes looking poor because Rooney wasn't getting there ahead of the defenders. Everton still defended quite well but Rooney wasn't the toughest striker to deal with.

Once it went 2-0 though performance levels dropped all round and we were very easy to defend against.

I watched the first half hour there again now. There were only two mistakes from Rooney as far as I could see.

One time Rooney was receiving a square pass from Valencia, but he let Jagielka nick it off his toes. Another time he was receiving the ball on the edge of the box while holding off a defender, the defender got a foot on the ball, but it fell to Mata. Two other times Mata played the ball behind Rooney while he was running, they were misplaced passes, nothing Rooney could have done better.

He received the ball a lot in that half hour, and other than those two mistakes he passed it on or laid it off successfully each time. He also threatened the area between the CBs and goalie every time the ball was played in there, ready to pick up any chances they gave up.

I think you are misremembering it, because I'd describe his play in that opening half hour as excellent, not anything to criticise him for.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

...Valencia...just not good enough offensively

or defensively.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

or defensively.

wouldn't blame him for any of the goals there on sunday though. 3rd goal was a terrible linesman error. Ball was passed to lukaku, he should have been called offside

PhlegmyMoses

I think with Rooney, people expect a lot. When we play against a packed defence, you want him to to be doing more than trying to get on the end of a parry or receiving the ball with his back to goal and laying it off again. Loads of strikers can do that, not least one that is paid 300k a week. I personally want more from Rooney in these types of games. It's not just yesterday, but generally in games like this Rooney should be far more selfish and aggressive around the box and leave the tippy tappy stuff to everybody else, because right now, teams know that if they can stop us from scoring in the first 20, we're in for a tough match.

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

wouldn't blame him for any of the goals there on sunday though. 3rd goal was a terrible linesman error. Ball was passed to lukaku, he should have been called offside

Maybe, but a kid being taught to play football knows to play to the whistle. Even if he thought/knew Lukaku was offside, especially when we're losing, he should still be getting after the ball to get play going again.

Leroy42

Ball was played in the direction of Lukaku, but since he didn'ty touch it the pass was actually to Miralles. No offside. It was down to our defenders turning off.

I think the law is an ass in this type of case, as it clearly has an effect on the defenders, but that is the rules

PhlegmyMoses

bangkok wrote: »

wouldn't blame him for any of the goals there on sunday though. 3rd goal was a terrible linesman error. Ball was passed to lukaku, he should have been called offside

I'm almost 100% sure that the goal should have stood according to the laws of the game. Linesmen regularly wait for a player to chase the ball down and then blow when he touches it.

The fact is though, that the law is stupid. The offside player causes the defence to be out of shape because they are told to play to the whistle and not to blindly trust the lino to make the right call.

The ref should be allowed to apply more common s3nse and say that Lukaku, and Rooney earlier in the season when he hurdled a goalbound strike, is offside.