Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I think with Rooney, people expect a lot. When we play against a packed defence, you want him to to be doing more than trying to get on the end of a parry or receiving the ball with his back to goal and laying it off again. Loads of strikers can do that, not least one that is paid 300k a week. I personally want more from Rooney in these types of games. It's not just yesterday, but generally in games like this Rooney should be far more selfish and aggressive around the box and leave the tippy tappy stuff to everybody else, because right now, teams know that if they can stop us from scoring in the first 20, we're in for a tough match.

Then you want Rooney to be something that he's not.

What he is is a world class goal poacher, who is also excellent at holding the ball up, creating space for others and good at passing. Loads of strikers can't do those things as well as Rooney and that's enough to make him one of the best strikers the PL has seen.

So it's pointless complaining about Rooney not being something different. It wasn't him being the world class striker that he is that made the team unable to break down Everton.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

wouldn't blame him for any of the goals there on sunday though. 3rd goal was a terrible linesman error. Ball was passed to lukaku, he should have been called offside

That's not how the law works. The new law is dumb, but Vaencia didn't need to go so completely asleep when he thought Lukaku was going to be flagged. He was also at fault for Hazard's goal last week.

The_Kew_Tour

Any word on Rooney injury?

KH25

The third goal wasn't down to the linesman. You play to the whistle always. Sure linesmen get it wrong every once in a while so you have to play as if nothing happened. The fact that there was no effort to chase back is a joke.

PhlegmyMoses

Pro. F wrote: »

Then you want Rooney to be something that he's not.

What he is is a world class goal poacher, who is also excellent at holding the ball up, creating space for others and good at passing. Loads of strikers can't do those things as well as Rooney and that's enough to make him one of the best strikers the PL has seen.

So it's pointless complaining about Rooney not being something different. It wasn't him being the world class striker that he is that made the team unable to break down Everton.

But Rooney has that in his locker. He can hit from distance, he can beat a man and he can make things happen for himself. He needs to adapt in games like this and a more aggressive playstyle is needed against the bus parkers. The nuanced passing game won't work in those situations with these particular players and Rooney is the most capable of changing it up.

Maybe LVG is limiting him and he is performing his tasks, but to reduce Rooney to a goal poacher and good passer is doing him a disservice

keeponhurling

OctavarIan wrote: »

So long as Young and Valencia are on the wings we'll struggle to break down teams that park the bus. Valencia offers nothing going forward since all he can do is a hard low cross

In fairness Valencia doesn't play on the wing anymore.

He probably creates a reasonable amount if you compare him to other full backs in the division.

Mata played right midfield yesterday although you'd be forgiven for not noticing.

Special mention also for Herrera, a good 10-20 meters behind McCarthy and Barkley for the first goal

Generally the team has been good this season, but you need leaders for when the team finds itself 2-0 down such as yesterday.
2-0 at half time was maybe somewhat against the run of play, but the second half performance was pathetic really.
When Smalling is the main leader in defence you've got problems.
Even the subs when they came on looked disinterested

Mantis Toboggan

Any word on when our saviour is back?

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

That's not how the law works. The new law is dumb, but Vaencia didn't need to go so completely asleep when he thought Lukaku was going to be flagged. He was also at fault for Hazard's goal last week.

no he wasn't, it was a great goal, you could blame Herrera if you wanted to blame someone, or blame the ref for not giving a foul on Falcao, but Hazard was 2 yards off Herrera and sprinted past him, so it was herreras fault for not tracking him but in fairness Hazard is lightning quick so wouldn't blame anyone, it was a great goal.

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

But Rooney has that in his locker. He can hit from distance, he can beat a man and he can make things happen for himself. He needs to adapt in games like this and a more aggressive playstyle is needed against the bus parkers. The nuanced passing game won't work in those situations with these particular players and Rooney is the most capable of changing it up.

Maybe LVG is limiting him and he is performing his tasks, but to reduce Rooney to a goal poacher and good passer is doing him a disservice

I didn't reduce him to a goal poacher who can pass. I said he's a world class goal poacher, who is also excellent at holding the ball up, creating space for others and good at passing. And I said that makes him one of the best strikers the PL has seen. That isn't doing anybody a disservice.

He can hit the odd long range shot, but he's not amazing at it. He's never been consistently good at dribbling past players either.

But all this is getting away from the point. People are saying that Rooney actually played poorly as the striker yesterday, when in fact he was excellent.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

no he wasn't, it was a great goal, you could blame Herrera if you wanted to blame someone, or blame the ref for not giving a foul on Falcao, but Hazard was 2 yards off Herrera and sprinted past him, so it was herreras fault for not tracking him but in fairness Hazard is lightning quick so wouldn't blame anyone, it was a great goal.

Valencia should have been getting back to cover behind Smalling's right shoulder when the ball went to Oscar, but he didn't start sprinting until Oscar played the ball to Hazard. It was too late at that stage. Valencia didn't see the danger until too late.

Herrera was also at fault.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Valencia should have been getting back to cover behind Smalling's right shoulder when the ball went to Oscar, but he didn't start sprinting until Oscar played the ball to Hazard. It was too late at that stage. Valencia didn't see the danger until too late.

Herrera was also at fault.

you can over analyse a goal, sometimes you just have to say it was a great goal.

The back heel from Oscar into the player of the years feet and a cool finish past the goalkeeper of the year. just a great goal in my eyes

Manutd_4life

utdreport.com ‏@UtdReport

United agree deal with Real Madrid http://utdreport.com/2015/04/27/united-agree-deal-with-real-madrid/ …

I don't believe it but if the money of 20 million is what we would get that would be great bsuiness

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

you can over analyse a goal, sometimes you just have to say it was a great goal.

The back heel from Oscar into the player of the years feet and a cool finish past the goalkeeper of the year. just a great goal in my eyes

You can over analyse a goal indeed, but Valencia was out of position on this one, regardless of the finish.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

You can over analyse a goal indeed, but Valencia was out of position on this one, regardless of the finish.

you are wrong, fabregas was running directly at Valencia, he went to him, Fabregas passed to Oscar, Oscar back heeled and hazard ran away from Herrera. How you could pin blame on Valencia for that goal is beyond me

Cantona's Collars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAx4ABqEK1A

Donnielighto

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

You got that from one post fair play to you. I hope you dont make all your judgemenrs as rashly in life, have a good day buddy.

I made it after all that guff you've been pumping in here over the last while. Why you think it's from one post I'm not sure, it should be obvious enough I'm not going to multiquote all the crap from the last few pages.

Lord TSC

Manutd_4life wrote: »

utdreport.com ‏@UtdReport

United agree deal with Real Madrid http://utdreport.com/2015/04/27/united-agree-deal-with-real-madrid/ …

I don't believe it but if the money of 20 million is what we would get that would be great bsuiness

Considering the reports only a few days ago was the buy clause was €10, I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

€20m would be amazing imo.

Cantona's Collars

Never copped until I saw it now that Rooney has scored just once in his last 17 away games,15 out of 17 scored at home.

No wonder our away form is so poor if even Rooney isn't scoring.

The Moldy Gowl

No chance he will go for 20.

Just clickbait after scoring 3 in 2 and one being a tap in.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

you are wrong, fabregas was running directly at Valencia, he went to him, Fabregas passed to Oscar, Oscar back heeled and hazard ran away from Herrera. How you could pin blame on Valencia for that goal is beyond me

I know Val went to Fabregas. And after Fabregas passed to Oscar Valencia jogged back towards the play, rather than sprinting to get into a covering position like he should have. If he had been more alert to the danger Valencia would have been in the right place to make a challenge on Hazard.

MythicalMadMan

Donnielighto wrote: »

I made it after all that guff you've been pumping in here over the last while. Why you think it's from one post I'm not sure, it should be obvious enough I'm not going to multiquote all the crap from the last few pages.

Guff, pumping, last while and crap well that clears all that up for me thank you for being so insightfull

I'd 6 posts yesterday here and nothing from the previous week, I'll admit one was a pretty bad joke so I do apologise if that is what upset you.

So 6 posts out of 500+ posts in the football forum all from the 1 day is enough for you to clearly define someone's posting style and to label it negatively. I can tell you thats a pretty poor sample size to make judgements from and again would urge you not to be so rash when judging people in real life.

Not to derail the thread anymore but if you still want to discuss my posting style and your over reaction to it you can PM me, you can also put me on ignore or if my posting style is so offensive to you, you can always report me.

Good day to you sir I hope you havent taken all Uniteds defeats as badly the past 2 years or you friends and family must have had it tough.

MythicalMadMan

Lord TSC wrote: »

Considering the reports only a few days ago was the buy clause was €10, I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

€20m would be amazing imo.

Commentators on Rte said the buy out clause was 20 mil during the week, not really sure if that adds to or takes away from truthfullness of the story mind.

adox

I thought Valencia was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday.

Donnielighto

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Guff, pumping, last while and crap well that clears all that up for me thank you for being so insightfull

I'd 6 posts yesterday here and nothing from the previous week, I'll admit one was a pretty bad joke so I do apologise if that is what upset you.

So 6 posts out of 500+ posts in the football forum all from the 1 day is enough for you to clearly define someone's posting style and to label it negatively. I can tell you thats a pretty poor sample size to make judgements from and again would urge you not to be so rash when judging people in real life.

Not to derail the thread anymore but if you still want to discuss my posting style and your over reaction to it you can PM me, you can also put me on ignore or if my posting style is so offensive to you, you can always report me.

Good day to you sir I hope you havent taken all Uniteds defeats as badly the past 2 years or you friends and family must have had it tough.

Im not responding to a bad result, I'm responding to a bad poster. I will clarify pages to days, some posts may have been in the match thread rather than here. But plenty had personal snipes that had zero to do with the point at hand.

MythicalMadMan

adox wrote: »

I thought Valencia was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday.

I would also echo that point, even in more recent games he has given up chances by playing people onside when the other 3 have moved up or being caught out of position.

Teams dont even press him that much cause he is so poor on the ball the only time when he is an attacking threat is when the opposition have closed down all his simples passes so he has to run with the ball and usually has space to do so.

Or when Mata or Herrea play the ball so far forward he has to sprint to get to it, even then its either a mis hit cross or ball is slowed down and passed back to centre half.

Shaw got to the opposition by line 4 times yesterday and created a few chances Valencia couldnt get pass thier 18 yard line once

He is a libability at the back and offers nothing in an attacking sense

Lucas Hood

Valencia does better attacking when he has someone to overlap on the wing. Mata was pulling into the centre so Valencias options were limited.
Improved a tiny bit in 2nd half when Mata stayed a bit wider.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

I thought Valencia was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday.

how, first goal Valencia's fault?

fellaini was marking no one for the 2nd goal and he is meant to be our best player in the air?

3rd goal was a great line, lukaku offside but that rule is terrible, punishes good defending

Lukekul

Must say, I really enjoy the runs Shaw has made into the box in the last two games.
With a bit more experience there's no reason that type of play couldn't result in 6 or 7 assists a season.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

I know Val went to Fabregas. And after Fabregas passed to Oscar Valencia jogged back towards the play, rather than sprinting to get into a covering position like he should have. If he had been more alert to the danger Valencia would have been in the right place to make a challenge on Hazard.

IF the ref gave the foul on Falcao

IF Herrera tracked Hazard

IF de gea was quicker off his line

MythicalMadMan

Donnielighto wrote: »

Im not responding to a bad result, I'm responding to a bad poster.

As I said if you basing it on one day its laughable, if you basing it on months of posting strange it came after a heavy defeat.
TBH you posted nothing coherent or concrete to back up your assertions about my posting style, again your latest reply over simplistic and negative for seemingly no reason. Its like your typing now just for the sake of it or an unwillingness to admit you were wrong.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

IF the ref gave the foul on Falcao

IF Herrera tracked Hazard

IF de gea was quicker off his line

Is the concept of the word "if" new to you or something? What point are you trying to make?

Pyjamarama

bangkok wrote: »

how, first goal Valencia's fault?

fellaini was marking no one for the 2nd goal and he is meant to be our best player in the air?

3rd goal was a great line, lukaku offside but that rule is terrible, punishes good defending

Even if its a great line there is no reason that Valencia should not go with his runner... that won't change the fact that of Lukaku being offside or not (assuming he times his run correctly, and uses the pace that is his main asset.)

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Is the concept of the word "if" new to you or something? What point are you trying to make?

you are trying to blame Valencia for a goal that was clearly not his fault.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

you are trying to blame Valencia for a goal that was clearly not his fault.

What point were you trying to make with the three if sentences?

Never mind. I'll just point out to you that Falcao being fouled, Herrera not tracking the run and DDG not being off his line quick enough (wrong anyway) are all irrelevant to the question of whether or not Valencia did his defending correctly. He did not.

MythicalMadMan

bangkok wrote: »

how, first goal Valencia's fault?

fellaini was marking no one for the 2nd goal and he is meant to be our best player in the air?

3rd goal was a great line, lukaku offside but that rule is terrible, punishes good defending

Valencia is our quickest player who covers when we are taking corners, he is meant to slow down the oppositions counter attacks.

He gets himself caught high up the pitch and out of the game, leaving the defence exposed and outnumbered and slower players trying to catch up to the counter.

Fellaini was obviously instructed to gaurd the front post area from Evertons corners as thats where they put most of them, It was obviously a tactic by Van Gall. Stones was also the 3rd different man everton tried to hit from a corner Fellaini cant mark everyone you know.

Valencia was caught flat footed, his man got away from him his man scored how in the world it could be anyone elses fault is beyond my comprehension

Kerrydude1981

Yesterday was a huge disappointment,never showed the same pace in the build up play as there as has been in the last month,it was like the players have gone on holidays early.

Hopefully LVG will give a few lads a wake up call call this week before the WBA game,if the Utd we saw yesterday shows up then its going to be a a struggle.

Really hope Carrick will be back for the weekend.

A Brad Maddox Guy

Pro. F wrote: »

I watched the first half hour there again now. There were only two mistakes from Rooney as far as I could see.

One time Rooney was receiving a square pass from Valencia, but he let Jagielka nick it off his toes. Another time he was receiving the ball on the edge of the box while holding off a defender, the defender got a foot on the ball, but it fell to Mata. Two other times Mata played the ball behind Rooney while he was running, they were misplaced passes, nothing Rooney could have done better.

He received the ball a lot in that half hour, and other than those two mistakes he passed it on or laid it off successfully each time. He also threatened the area between the CBs and goalie every time the ball was played in there, ready to pick up any chances they gave up.

I think you are misremembering it, because I'd describe his play in that opening half hour as excellent, not anything to criticise him for.

Maybe I am just remembering those moments because it was in my head at the time whereas when the simple things were done right I didn't really pass comment on it. One thing I'll say though about those Mata passes, I felt Rooney made the wrong run for the through ball that went to Howard. It was a good pass had Rooney made the correct move/move you would have expected; he didn't & the pass looked bad. I'd have to watch it again though.

Anywho I was only giving a possible reason since you asked for one, I didn't actually think Rooney was particularly poor or that his performance can be questioned more than anyone else on the day.

Also highly doubt that Hernandez figure.

homerjay2005

adox wrote: »

I thought Valencia was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday.

missed the header for the first, though another ref may have given the foul.

missed the runner for the second.

defo at fault for the 3rd though they all stopped. in fairness, the goal shouldnt have stood.


id put Shaw and Mcnair at fault for the first though, Shaw went Awol and Mcnair should have cleared it....

added all together, it was a horrific defensive display.

adox

homerjay2005 wrote: »

missed the header for the first, though another ref may have given the foul.

missed the runner for the second.

defo at fault for the 3rd though they all stopped. in fairness, the goal shouldnt have stood.


id put Shaw and Mcnair at fault for the first though, Shaw went Awol and Mcnair should have cleared it....

added all together, it was a horrific defensive display.

Yeah not the only one at fault for the first but his rashness left the back line exposed and caused the mayhem that ensued.

adox

bangkok wrote: »

how, first goal Valencia's fault?

fellaini was marking no one for the 2nd goal and he is meant to be our best player in the air?

3rd goal was a great line, lukaku offside but that rule is terrible, punishes good defending

First one explained above.

Second one Valencia was marking Stone, not Fellaini. Was wrong side when the corner was taken, reacted too slowly to Stones run and lost him completely. Fellaini was more or less the man on the post, saw the free man(Stone) and tried to get his head to it to no avail. In no way Fellainis fault.

3rd one I agree the rule is stupid but Valencia stopped completely and let the player run by him. Could easily have held the line without being so static for so long.

The Moldy Gowl

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/34117x/rant_im_going_to_hate_de_gea_with_passion_if_he/

What do ye guys think of this? It got a load of upvotes and so did the top comment. I know we have had a few in here saying badish things about him but nothing on this scale and kinda surprises me to be honest.
At first I read the title and was expecting reddit jokes or the top comment to be cop on you gowl.

I know its probably just young american and asians but are fans that nasty? We look reasonably sane compared.

Pro. F

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

Maybe I am just remembering those moments because it was in my head at the time whereas when the simple things were done right I didn't really pass comment on it. One thing I'll say though about those Mata passes, I felt Rooney made the wrong run for the through ball that went to Howard. It was a good pass had Rooney made the correct move/move you would have expected; he didn't & the pass looked bad. I'd have to watch it again though.

Anywho I was only giving a possible reason since you asked for one, I didn't actually think Rooney was particularly poor or that his performance can be questioned more than anyone else on the day.

I didn't see anything wrong with the run Rooney made tbh, but it's no biggie.

uncleoswald

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I know its probably just young american and asians but are fans that nasty? We look reasonably sane compared.

Yeah, must have been Asian and American Arsenal fans booing Fabregas yesterday too?

Some people care far too much about been "disrespected", these people should be ignored.

Gowlasauras Rex

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/34117x/rant_im_going_to_hate_de_gea_with_passion_if_he/

What do ye guys think of this? It got a load of upvotes and so did the top comment. I know we have had a few in here saying badish things about him but nothing on this scale and kinda surprises me to be honest.
At first I read the title and was expecting reddit jokes or the top comment to be cop on you gowl.

I know its probably just young american and asians but are fans that nasty? We look reasonably sane compared.

It might be just a bit too early to release the hounds on DDG, but I will say as someone who was until very recently sure that he wouldn't leave; While the OP of that thread is offensive towards a star player for us, some of the reasoning as to why a United fan would react negatively to DDG if he were to leave this Summer is spot on IMO.

Yes, I was ignoring all talk of him leaving because it seemed to be media-driven, lead by the narrative of "Spanish player, world-class, Real Madrid will come looking eventually" with no comments from the player himself or his agent. However, the longer it goes on without a new contract signed or DDG's camp making comment, the more I think that there's something in these rumours. For me, he hasn't been the same GK the last few games and his mind is not 100% settled.

It might be true to say that these multi-millionaires owe us fans nothing, so surely that means it works the other way around also. There are players who have moved on who I wished well and am still fond of. If DDG leaves this Summer, as a United fan I won't help but feel slightly cheated.

irishfeen

Journalist Andy Mitten writing for ESPN tonight...

United are on course to achieve those aims. Potential signings have been identified to fill the positions manager Louis van Gaal needs to strengthen, and United want the deals done early. If target No. 1 isn't agreed by June 30, for instance, then United will move on to target No. 2.

The Moldy Gowl

stankratz wrote: »

It might be just a bit too early to release the hounds on DDG, but I will say as someone who was until very recently sure that he wouldn't leave; While the OP of that thread is offensive towards a star player for us, some of the reasoning as to why a United fan would react negatively to DDG if he were to leave this Summer is spot on IMO.

Yes, I was ignoring all talk of him leaving because it seemed to be media-driven, lead by the narrative of "Spanish player, world-class, Real Madrid will come looking eventually" with no comments from the player himself or his agent. However, the longer it goes on without a new contract signed or DDG's camp making comment, the more I think that there's something in these rumours. For me, he hasn't been the same GK the last few games and his mind is not 100% settled.

It might be true to say that these multi-millionaires owe us fans nothing, so surely that means it works the other way around also. There are players who have moved on who I wished well and am still fond of. If DDG leaves this Summer, as a United fan I won't help but feel slightly cheated.

Maybe I should feel different. Maybe im just getting older and mature and just recently moved jobs in the same area for more money kinda connects it in my mind. Why should I be angry at him for wanting to move after the club 'made' him, I can see corelations being himself and I. I would rather spend my energy not getting angry at someone I have never met and just look at boobs instead. The club will go on and still get in top class players. Ill always be in the if he wants to leave, he wants to leave.

Guess it depends on the person and what they get offended by, some people think its all just a game for their entertainment and are a bit selfish, they are humans doing a job at the end of the day.

Just my 2 cents, I know not everyone will think that, I just cringe at the outrage at him maybe wanting to leave even though nothing has been said. Nothing has come to fruition yet.

KH25

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Maybe I should feel different. Maybe im just getting older and mature and just recently moved jobs in the same area for more money kinda connects it in my mind. Why should I be angry at him for wanting to move after the club 'made' him, I can see corelations being himself and I. I would rather spend my energy not getting angry at someone I have never met and just look at boobs instead. The club will go on and still get in top class players. Ill always be in the if he wants to leave, he wants to leave.

Guess it depends on the person and what they get offended by, some people think its all just a game for their entertainment and are a bit selfish, they are humans doing a job at the end of the day.

Just my 2 cents, I know not everyone will think that, I just cringe at the outrage at him maybe wanting to leave even though nothing has been said. Nothing has come to fruition yet.

At the end of the day it's just a game and players are human just like the rest of us. Some want better pay, some want to leave for weather/partners/whatever and some are loyal to a fault.

If De Gea left Id be annoyed, but not personally at him. If he acted like an ass or something I might take a bit of a disliking to him but that's all.

Some fans take the game and the team FAR too seriously. Just look at any random post by the United facebook. Some of the things posted are crazy.

homerjay2005

anybody else think that De Geas performances have dropped considerably in recent weeks?


while i dont think he could have done much for the goals yesterday, he certainly didnt have a good game.

keeponhurling

Ok, lots of players individually had bad games.

Any theories as to why they got even worse in the second half, when they should have been busting a gut ?

duffman13

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody else think that De Geas performances have dropped considerably in recent weeks?


while i dont think he could have done much for the goals yesterday, he certainly didnt have a good game.

I don't agree it's recent weeks, wasn't amazing yesterday but still pulled of a cracker of a save. Against Chelsea the Hazard goal was one he has been saving all season but not one id expect any keeper to keep out regularly.

I do think he looked a bit sluggish yesterday, looking at his footwork yesterday he wasn't as bouncy/on his toes as in recent months. Hard to explain I'll try throw up a video to show what I mean when I get on the laptop.