Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

MythicalMadMan

Liam O wrote: »

I'd like to see one game where LVG just tries to win and not merely negate the opposition. People seem to be far more accepting of that this season than last, I guess LVG's propaganda is working on that regard.

Last season we got beat home and away by liverpool, wont happen this season.
City made very light work of us in our two games wont happen this season.
Chelseas could still beat us easily in stmaford bridge but I doubt it will compare to last.
Beat Arsenal away and still have to play them at home where despite last nights result we will still have a good record against them.

We are also 5 or 6 points better off than this time last season.

But sure its all LVG proaganda and them dam Pamhlets messing with peoples minds

TheDoc

As you say that does seem to make some sense as to what has gone on this year, and I find it re-assuring, as long as it's not taking someone who is just "Dutch" as a matter expert (I'm taking the post at face value as someone to knows Van Gaal well)

At the same time it's somewhat confusing, considering we have argueably two elite level 10's in Rooney and Mata, although I'll always prefer Mata over Rooney in 10, with Rooney leading the line.

So can we read into this that maybe Mata isn't adapting/struggling with what is being required of him?

MagicIRL

Pro. F wrote: »

LVG's Brain of Text

Great post. Also shows why Jones is ****ed, because that lad is dumber than a bag of wet mice.

loyatemu

MagicIRL wrote: »

De Gea

OK

RB - CB - Rojo - LB

Rojo was crap last night, I've no confidence in any of the defenders.

Blind - Herrera

I didn't see either of these quys make an incisive forward pass last night

Di Maria - Mata - LW

DM is becoming the new Nani - world class one week, anonymous/wasteful the next

Rooney

no arguments about Shrek, but who else is there up front - Falcao will be gone at the end of the season, RvP is shot, Wilson is young and hasn't really done much to convince that he can lead the line.

United have spent an astonishing amount of money to end up with a squad this weak - or is it better than I think and its just the manager that is the problem?

bucketybuck

He shows respect, always defends his players in front of the media and will never speak badly of a player in public. He's a real gentleman, he rather speaks about the team and not the individual. This might be annoying for us fans, but I'm sure the players appreciate it as they aren't getting burned after bad performances.

Really?

Luke Shaw

Van Gaal said. “He needs to be fit and is not very fit or fit enough to do what I want.

Chris Smalling

‘In a derby you have to be careful — the second yellow card is a stupid yellow card,’ said Van Gaal. ‘You cannot do what he has done. He said (sorry) and is very humble. You can only accept it. Nevertheless it is, in my opinion, not so smart.’

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

For anybody who missed it last night, this post from Red Cafe is a good read on LVG's tactics and player requirements, his philosophy. We can't be sure that it's exactly what LVG is thinking this season, but as a model for understanding his decisions it fits perfectly.

The guy who wrote it thinks we should be reassured by it that LVG has a plan and will buy accordingly. I'm worried, not reassured, by this philosophy and how Louis is going about enacting it.

---

Here's the post:

"This is my first thread here, I've been reading the Cafe for quite some time now and I've noticed alot of people still don't know how van Gaal likes to play the game. I'm not an expert by any means, but I do know some things van Gaal always has in his teams. Louis van Gaal is a teacher and as a Dutchy who knows him I see that he has pretty much tried to explain everything he did at Manchester United so far. He isn't fluent in English though so many don't get this, I hope I can explain this a bit better. Excuse the language, I'm Dutch aswell and might make some mistakes. I'll happily edit any errors.

There will be no TL;DR because van Gaal's ways are difficult. Please don't turn this into a thread about what you think of him, as there are enough threads to discuss that. I'd like to keep this thread purely about the tactical side and his team selections. You might disagree with his vision, but he's NOT changing so I'm just stating the facts. If you're not interested in reading all of this, please go and read another thread.

First of all: his philosophy isn't his playstyle. It's much more than this. It's essentially how he does his job: how he treats the players and staff, how he trains, which orders he gives to players and what his gameplan is. Louis van Gaal isn't fluent in English so 'philosophy' just about covers everything which he can't explain fully (he doesn't give out all his secrets either).

Louis van Gaal is a strong character. Players have to do what he says or you're not getting a spot in the team. If you're not pleasing him, he can be a nasty man. We've seen this with many players in the past, they collide with his personality or just can't get to grips with the way he wants to play the game no matter how hard they try. If you give everything and try to do as he says though he really is a nice man. He shows respect, always defends his players in front of the media and will never speak badly of a player in public. He's a real gentleman, he rather speaks about the team and not the individual. This might be annoying for us fans, but I'm sure the players appreciate it as they aren't getting burned after bad performances.

Rules:
His formations don't really matter too much as he generally plays the same and he still follows his own set rules. Some of his rules which his teams MUST have (he will not play without this, unless he has no choice because of injury):

-Left/right foot combinations. With the exception of inverted wingers(or wingsbacks), you're not getting a spot on the left side if you're not extremely good with your left. Ditto for the right side.
-4 defensive minded players. He categorizes his players (I'll come back to this) and doesn't play without 4 of these.
-3/4 creative players. These are the only players who can take risks in the team and lose the ball, the rest has to follow orders and keep possesion. These usually are the wingers, number 10 and the striker.
-In a midfield 3 he wants: a CDM, a box-to-box midfielder who's good defensively and a creative midfielder as his number 10.

Team selections:
He NEEDS 4 defensive minded players, this is the balance he keeps mentioning. We lack this. He bought players for a 352 but changed formation because it wasn't working and this left him in a spot of bother. With 352 he had 3 centrebacks+1 CDM, which is enough to please him.
With 4231 (his preferred 433) we got 2 centrebacks + Blind or Carrick. This isn't enough. He needs another midfielder, a box-to-box midfielder, who can bring him defensive balance. He tried Rooney, Fellaini, Mata and now Herrera but he isn't happy about them for this role. He will strenghten there in the mould of Strootman. The reason Fellaini is still playing is because Herrera is a creative player playing in his box-to-box role. We will never see Blind-Mata-Herrera as this would mean he doesn't have 4 defensive minded players. Having a defensive minded player at 10 isn't what he wants though so we won't see this next season.
This is why he doesn't fancy a 442 with wingers. He'd have 2 defensive midfielders, 2 wingers and 2 strikers and lack the most important player for him: his creative number 10.
The reason why he has fiddled around so much with players/formations is because he lacks the players for his own set rules, this won't be solved without transfers.

How he generally plays:
Apart from his creative players, Louis van Gaal plays every single position. He tells each player what they can and can't do. They must know these tasks from each and every teammate on the pitch aswell. Each player got their own do's and do not's which are based on their strenghts and position in the starting 11. Rooney/Blackett can give a long ball, Mata can give trough balls and Di Maria can do whatever he wants. They need to perform these instructions to perfection or they're getting dropped.

In a perfect van Gaal match everything is about the number 10. The team plays in service of getting the number 10 in an ideal position to set up a goal for one of his teammates. He wants to achieve this by keeping the ball (frustrating & tiring the opposition) and dragging the opponent around to find space. If this space isn't found then they shouldn't panic but stick to the plan and recycle possesion. Only when van Gaal sees it isn't working he switches to his plan B (which he always has). In our case that is Fellaini and a more direct style of play.

He analyses the opponent in extreme detail and comes up with a specific plan for each and every match. It doesn't matter if it's Cambridge, Swansea or Chelsea. We will set up in a way to counter their strenghts and exploit their weakness: we will adapt to all opponents whilst playing his possesion based style.

Fullbacks/defensive midfielders for example can't dribble because of the risk of losing the ball. Passing to one of them who is marked is pointless because they've got the instruction to pass it back. The players must analyse the situation: the player who can't beat a man is marked, the winger who can make an action is there, the creative midfielder is standing in a position where he can't lose the ball so I can't pass it to him, the weak spot we're targetting is there etcetera etcetera are all things a player needs to think about in a split second when he's got the ball. The whole team is thinking of attacking when a non-creative player is on the ball because of the gameplan, they aren't prepared to defend. The team is also set to attack when a creative player has the ball in a dangerous position where they can't lose the ball (close to de Gea). When a creative player has the ball in a position where they can take risks though, the team is ready to defend and it doesn't matter if say Di Maria loses the ball. That's why he doesn't like Herrera as a CDM/BTB, he has too much risks in his game. If he loses the ball when he's not 'creative' this disturbs all instructions given to the other players because they're all in the wrong places and we're extremely vulnerable to the counter.

This is why van Gaal always struggles at first because most players aren't used to his ways and some will never learn this. It's always a project for the long term though, so we won't see results immediately. It's a very hard learning curve to play how van Gaal wants as he's extremely demanding. Limitted players like Fellaini (no offense) who only got only a few strenghts blossom under him because they don't get tasks which they can't perform. They don't need to think and only do as they've been told.

Like I mentioned each and every player has a specific task for their position in the gameplan, which changes each game. That's why he sometimes decides to drop a player because he thinks he needs somebody else in his place with a different strenght for a specific match.

All 11 players doing exactly what he wants in every single situation is hard to learn, but if it's performed well it's a great style of playing the game. It's attractive, attacking football which the fans will enjoy. It's nothing like Fergie's style though so people will have to get used to it, we're not seeing the way van Gaal would like us to play though so don't worry just yet. This year is all about top 4 and laying the foundations for next year."

a lot of talk above about his no10 and his most important player being the no10. We have Juan Mata, one of the best in the world in the position and he is not getting played. Just doesn't add up

homerjay2005

taking everything into account (and not just final position in the sense that we finished 7th last year), if we were to finish 6th this season, which i think at the moment is where we are heading, would people consider that a better or worse season, than the Moyes era?

Maximus Alexander

Right so, having had some time to let the rawness subside - I must say that despite being bitterly disappointed, I really enjoyed the match last night. It had a bit of everything, plenty of action, and really felt like an FA Cup tie the way I remember them from my childhood.

It's painful that the match was so much within United's grasp, having been the better team for the majority of the game, only to be thrown away by a moment of madness from Valencia followed by absolute foolishness from Di Maria, who was finally having a decent game. Say what you like about the ref, but Di Maria really should know better.

Anyway, six weeks ago the prospect of facing other top teams was frightening to me. With the way United looked at the time, I was sure there would be maulings and that's not what we saw last night. Provided morale doesn't take a massive hit after last night, it's quite conceivable that United will come away from the horrid run in the next few weeks with enough points to hold on to top four. And that's good enough for me, for this year - just as I said it would be in August.

I'm f*cking nervous though. No CL two years running really could be a disaster.

Whatsisname

Did I just see someone call Rooney Shrek? Have we gone back to 2005?

Harry Palmr

Pro. F wrote: »

For anybody who missed it last night, this post from Red Cafe is a good read on LVG's tactics and player requirements, his philosophy. We can't be sure that it's exactly what LVG is thinking this season, but as a model for understanding his decisions it fits perfectly.

The guy who wrote it thinks we should be reassured by it that LVG has a plan and will buy accordingly. I'm worried, not reassured, by this philosophy and how Louis is going about enacting it.

---

TL;DR

The way this fella set out Van Gaals approach reminds me strongly of Rafa Benitez (though not in all regards), a lot of time spend watching the opposition and setting up a team to react to nullify same rather than say Rodgers who sets the team up to be pro-active and take the fight to the other team and hopefully gain an early advantage. Micro-management of players postions again sounds very familiar.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

As you say that does seem to make some sense as to what has gone on this year, and I find it re-assuring, as long as it's not taking someone who is just "Dutch" as a matter expert (I'm taking the post at face value as someone to knows Van Gaal well)

At the same time it's somewhat confusing, considering we have argueably two elite level 10's in Rooney and Mata, although I'll always prefer Mata over Rooney in 10, with Rooney leading the line.

So can we read into this that maybe Mata isn't adapting/struggling with what is being required of him?

No, Mata could exactly fit the mould of the creative 10 that LVG likes, but because of the tactical requirements of LVG's system he won't play a creative 10 ahead of a CM with Herrera or Fellaini in it. So going by that model LVG will next look to bring in a tactically disciplined box-to-box CM over the summer. Mata could then be given a chance to play, just like he was when the tactically disciplined Rooney played alongside the tactically disciplined Blind or Carrick earlier in the season.

Imo the trouble with this is that in LVG's desire to get very disciplined CM's he overlooks important skills. So you end up with cloggers like Van Bommel and Gustavo in there. If it hadn't been for injury we'd probably have Strootman playing alongside Carrick/Blind by now, which would not be a good balance in terms of controlling possession. If we get lucky we'll end up with a Vidal type of tactically disciplined, but also skilled at controlling possession, box-to-box CM. But those players are rarer and there isn't much sign LVG particularly appreciates those skills. Even then, in the lucky scenario, we still have substandard players like Blind or Carrick in there alongside them and we still would have wasted the £30-40m spent on Herrera by benching him.

Pro. F

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The way this fella set out Van Gaals approach reminds me strongly of Rafa Benitez (though not in all regards), a lot of time spend watching the opposition and setting up a team to react to nullify same rather than say Rodgers who sets the team up to be pro-active and take the fight to the other team and hopefully gain an early advantage. Micro-management of players postions again sounds very familiar.

Yeah I thought the exact same thing.

spiralism

Di Maria's red is a 3 match suspension so that's him out for Spurs, them @ Anfield and Villa. He'll have missed both games vs Liverpool and both games vs Spurs this season, and in his two games against Arsenal missed an open goal and got sent off. Great use of 60 ****ing million :rolleyes:

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

taking everything into account (and not just final position in the sense that we finished 7th last year), if we were to finish 6th this season, which i think at the moment is where we are heading, would people consider that a better or worse season, than the Moyes era?

The style of play is already more boring than the Moes era imo, not worse though. If we finish 6th after the money spent and this mis-use of players it would be just as bad as Moyes 7th.

If that happens, LVGs head should roll but it won't. He'll be given more time than Moyes due to his persona and CV.

sob1467

spiralism wrote: »

Di Maria's red is a 3 match suspension so that's him out for Spurs, them @ Anfield and Villa. He'll have missed both games vs Liverpool and both games vs Spurs this season, and in his two games against Arsenal missed an open goal and got sent off. Great use of 60 ****ing million :rolleyes:

That is incorrect, he is only going to get a one match ban, it was not deemed as violent conduct.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11460944/Angel-Di-Maria-escapes-with-one-match-ban-for-grabbing-referee.html

homerjay2005

he got two yellows, so its a one game ban.

straight red and it was a 3 game ban.

spiralism

sob1467 wrote: »

That is incorrect, he is only going to get a one match ban, it was not deemed as violent conduct.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11460944/Angel-Di-Maria-escapes-with-one-match-ban-for-grabbing-referee.html

I heard the exact opposite and in the game it was a straight red rather than a second yellow.

DrPhilG

homerjay2005 wrote: »

he got two yellows, so its a one game ban.

straight red and it was a 3 game ban.

I didn't think he got 2 yellows did he?

He got a yellow for diving, then a straight red for touching the ref.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Cantona's Collars

Valencia was under no immediate pressure when he got the ball from Jones last night but he is so one footed and one dimensional he didn't have the brains to just turn using his left and play the ball forward.It's as if with him these days that when he has a couple of options,he gets a brain freeze.

Cantona's Collars

homerjay2005 wrote: »

he got two yellows, so its a one game ban.

straight red and it was a 3 game ban.

"Earlier this season Norwich defender Martin Olsson was banned for three games for a similar offence.

But the FA have confirmed that Di Maria will have to serve just an automatic one-match suspension and will escape an additional ban.

Physical contact with a match official is not a straight red card offence unless the referee decides the force of the contact is violent conduct"
.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/429896/Man-Utd-Angel-Di-Maria-ESCAPES-extra-punishment-grabbing-Arsenal

spiralism

zerks wrote: »

"Earlier this season Norwich defender Martin Olsson was banned for three games for a similar offence.

But the FA have confirmed that Di Maria will have to serve just an automatic one-match suspension and will escape an additional ban.

Physical contact with a match official is not a straight red card offence unless the referee decides the force of the contact is violent conduct"
.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/429896/Man-Utd-Angel-Di-Maria-ESCAPES-extra-punishment-grabbing-Arsenal

I find that odd as it was a straight red that was given.

zerks wrote: »

Valencia was under no immediate pressure when he got the ball from Jones last night but he is so one footed and one dimensional he didn't have the brains to just turn using his left and play the ball forward.It's as if with him these days that when he has a couple of options,he gets a brain freeze.

He is just absolutely ****e. Worst united player since Kleberson or Djemba-Djemba. Has one foot, gets marked out of it by league one and league two fullbacks and is completely ****ing brainless. He's so bad on his left foot that he knew he didn't even have the ability to not **** up in that situation, panicked and gave Welbeck the best chance he's had since he completely made a balls of a 1v1 against Manuel Neuer a year ago.

5starpool

spiralism wrote: »

I find that odd as it was a straight red that was given.

No it wasn't, you could see him showing the yellow and then the red straight afterwards separate to the first yellow for the dive, so clearly a second booking.

grames_bond

spiralism wrote: »

I find that odd as it was a straight red that was given.

it wasn't, after the ref did his "woah woah woah" that the pundits loved, he showed Di Maria the yellow again THEN the red. The shirt tug was his second yellow.

Maximus Alexander

spiralism wrote: »

I find that odd as it was a straight red that was given.

A gang of FA officials probably stood around Oliver like



"You let Joe Hart nut you mate, and dun nuffink about it. Call it a yellow, shall we?"

Quandary

^^^
@Pro.f

That post from Red Cafe is very interesting and explains a lot. If however, we end up finishing outside the top 4 it will not be a good enough excuse. Finishing outside the top 4 will be deemed a real failure of a season, not just for us fans but for the business side of things too.

That being said, I don't think we will see LVG get the sack because he has been given a huge amount of backing from the club both personally and financially.

If Utd were to fire another manager after giving him less than a year it will create even more uncertainty than when Fergie left because that will have been two failed replacements in the space of two years.

I think LVG will definitely be here next season barring some complete catastrophe.

bangkok

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/mar/10/louis-van-gaal-manchester-united-route-one-arsenal

good article

Lord TSC

spiralism wrote: »

Great use of 60 ****ing million :rolleyes:

IF, long term, DiMaria doesn't work out, no one should be arguing it wasn't worth a try or the money at time of signing. He was, at time of signing, the "engine of Real Madrid", a World Cup finalist, a Fifa Team of the Year player and someone Real Madrid fans couldn't believe they were letting go.

It's easy to look back now and go "Wow, that was a lot of cash", but imo, for the player we were buying, in the market he was bought it, it was a very good deal for United.

15 hours on from the match, I can't say I'm not disappointed in the result, not least of all due to the fact we gifted them not one but two goals through horrid defending. I can't say my faith in LVG hasn't wavered massively; I saw someone else sum it up earlier in the thread when they said at this stage, it's not they want him gone, but tears won't be shed if he did go.

I still think changing managers again could be damaging, not least of all because I think the clearout that still needs to happen would be put off again; players like Valencia, for example, keep surviving cause a new manager will come in and want to assess his options and evaluate the team. The main reason I want LVG to stay at the moment is cause I think it's the best chance we have to continue rebuilding the team in the way it needs to be rebuilt.

Mind, that belief would be tested if someone like Ancelloti came along and if a top, top level manager was in discussion, the debate would be had.

It's too easy to go "It wasn't a league match, so it doesn't affect our chances of top 4"; it was a match against a typical "Top 4" team, and we gifted them a win, in a winnable knockout competition as well when you can't afford stupid mistakes like that. It will defenatly have a knock on effect, if not in points, in momentum and belief, both of players and fans.

I stand by the fact that certain players need replacing; Young may have improved, but he's still not a top level winger that we need to be further up the table, our defense needs significant improvements and a complete overhaul. I think we need a major creative force up front, be it an improved DiMaria, a move clinical striker (I won't repeat my dislike of Rooney in detail).

But I don't know....I'm certainly nowhere near the hyperbolic "Burn the house down" attitude yet, but on the Positive/Negative spectrum, I think I'm just itching over the midpoint line now....

spiralism

Quandary wrote: »

^^^
@Pro.f

That post from Red Cafe is very interesting and explains a lot. If however, we end up finishing outside the top 4 it will not be a good enough excuse. Finishing outside the top 4 will be deemed a real failure of a season, not just for us fans but for the business side of things too.

That being said, I don't think we will see LVG get the sack because he has been given a huge amount of backing from the club both personally and financially.

If Utd were to fire another manager after giving him less than a year it will create even more uncertainty than when Fergie left because that will have been two failed replacements in the space of two years.

I think LVG will definitely be here next season barring some complete catastrophe.

I think another 7th place finish and no european football whatsoever would be a complete catastrophe. Given the way that we're playing i wouldn't rule it out, i'd actually say it's quite likely. Our luck is running out and it's hard not to see us losing at least 4 times in the run in (next two games, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton away). Apart from a maybe point at Goodison it's hard to see the rest not being defeats.

Liam O

Jones made the right play to give it to Valencia. Valencia panicked for no reason. Jones is better on the ball than Smalling imo. More defensive skill too. Though I think him and Rojo may be a bit too gung ho to play together. If it wasn't for Evans' ban I think defense would be looking ok now as he was very good the last 2 games and suits Rojo's style as a partnership.

Quandary

spiralism wrote: »

I think another 7th place finish and no european football whatsoever would be a complete catastrophe. Given the way that we're playing i wouldn't rule it out, i'd actually say it's quite likely. Our luck is running out and it's hard not to see us losing at least 4 times in the run in (next two games, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton away). Apart from a maybe point at Goodison it's hard to see the rest not being defeats.

I would consider what you have described to be a catastrophe also but I still don't think the club would sack him. It would have to get even worse than that for them to consider shifting him IMO.

Rayne Wooney

We should really go in again for Vidal in the summer, seems to have gotten over his injury

Would probably depend on Champions league, likewise Hummels

The likes of Clyne, Depay and Laporte could possibly be bought without CL but that wouldn't do us much good next season without the 2/3 top quality players we need

spiralism

Quandary wrote: »

I would consider what you have described to be a catastrophe also but I still don't think the club would sack him. It would have to get even worse than that for them to consider shifting him IMO.

How bad would it have to get then? If we spend 170 million to do just as bad as last year, with a second year out of european football and no progress in any area, that is catastrophic and even less excusable than last season's abject disaster. Jesus, we're playing longball to Fellaini half the time and it took him until late February to realise that Rooney's best position is, in fact, up front.

We need champions league next season or there's going to be serious finiancial problems down the line first of all. Second of all we're going to need to strengthen again and won't get the players if we have another year not in europe. Think we're going to get Depay over Liverpool or Arsenal if we don't have europe? PSV will be in the champions league next year. We'd be a step down from PSV.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

IF, long term, DiMaria doesn't work out, no one should be arguing it wasn't worth a try or the money at time of signing. He was, at time of signing, the "engine of Real Madrid", a World Cup finalist, a Fifa Team of the Year player and someone Real Madrid fans couldn't believe they were letting go.

It's easy to look back now and go "Wow, that was a lot of cash", but imo, for the player we were buying, in the market he was bought it, it was a very good deal for United.

15 hours on from the match, I can't say I'm not disappointed in the result, not least of all due to the fact we gifted them not one but two goals through horrid defending. I can't say my faith in LVG hasn't wavered massively; I saw someone else sum it up earlier in the thread when they said at this stage, it's not they want him gone, but tears won't be shed if he did go.

I still think changing managers again could be damaging, not least of all because I think the clearout that still needs to happen would be put off again; players like Valencia, for example, keep surviving cause a new manager will come in and want to assess his options and evaluate the team. The main reason I want LVG to stay at the moment is cause I think it's the best chance we have to continue rebuilding the team in the way it needs to be rebuilt.

Mind, that belief would be tested if someone like Ancelloti came along and if a top, top level manager was in discussion, the debate would be had.

It's too easy to go "It wasn't a league match, so it doesn't affect our chances of top 4"; it was a match against a typical "Top 4" team, and we gifted them a win, in a winnable knockout competition as well when you can't afford stupid mistakes like that. It will defenatly have a knock on effect, if not in points, in momentum and belief, both of players and fans.

I stand by the fact that certain players need replacing; Young may have improved, but he's still not a top level winger that we need to be further up the table, our defense needs significant improvements and a complete overhaul. I think we need a major creative force up front, be it an improved DiMaria, a move clinical striker (I won't repeat my dislike of Rooney in detail).

But I don't know....I'm certainly nowhere near the hyperbolic "Burn the house down" attitude yet, but on the Positive/Negative spectrum, I think I'm just itching over the midpoint line now....

said it last night and was shot down for saying it, of course it has a massive effect on top 4. Arsenal players will be bouncing now and they have to come back to Trafford later in the season and will be very confident. Our players all apart from de gea and rooney look shell shocked, no confidence, afraid to try something. Watching daley blind last night you'd swear he was out having a kick about with some friends, no urgency, slow passing, crap passing, he needed a good bolloxing on the pitch last night first half. Harry Kane will be licking his lips at the prospects of playing against Jones/Smalling/Rojo or who ever. Liverpool the week after and I cant even imagine what costa and aguero will do when we play them. touch and go for top 4, but after last night sadly have a feeling we will finish 5th or 6th

Your Airbag

spiralism wrote: »

I think another 7th place finish and no european football whatsoever would be a complete catastrophe. Given the way that we're playing i wouldn't rule it out, i'd actually say it's quite likely. Our luck is running out and it's hard not to see us losing at least 4 times in the run in (next two games which are Spurs home, Pool away, City, Arsenal, Chelsea away, Everton away). Apart from a maybe point at Goodison it's hard to see the rest not being defeats.

FYP. Thats the toughest run in I think any team has. Confidence and form need to be in top shape and they are far from it.

LVG will do well to get 4th now.

spiralism

Your Airbag wrote: »

FYP. Thats the toughest run in I think any teams has. Confidence and form need to be in top shape and they are far from it.

LVG will do well to get 4th now.

Yeah, was aware those games were away. That has to be the hardest run in i've ever seen Utd have. Could lose every single one of those.

We'll finish 7th or 8th, mark my words.

homerjay2005

anybody like to have a go at predicting the final top 7 in order?

spiralism

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody like to have a go at predicting the final top 7 in order?

Chelsea
City
Scouse
Arsenal
Spurs
Southampton
United

TheDoc

Di Maria received two yellow cards. He was booked for the dive which obviously fueled the reaction, and was shown a second yellow and then the red.

So one match ban, unless FA intervene and provide additionals should they want to run out that the RESPECT campaign is serious business, but that won't happen as it would be absolutely outrageous.

I give referees in England a lot of **** as there are some really poor ones and a handful that should be nowhere near the premier league.

Fair play to the referee last night, I thought he handled the occasion well and things never got out of his grasp. He had an excellent game and let a good bit of stuff go. I also thought the Arsenal right back was the right call. Young clearly went seeking the red card there, his dramatic diving again in play( sure there was contact, his reaction was outrageous) but the ref made a good call to give him the final warning.

I also like how Rooney seems to be mellowing out in his captaincy role. His conversations with referees seem to be mature and calm, where before he'd eat the head of the men with the whistle.

Must say though do not like the increased diving culture in the club. Rooney, Young, Di Maria and Januzaj are extremely frustrating with their antics.

spiralism

TheDoc wrote: »

Di Maria received two yellow cards. He was booked for the dive which obviously fueled the reaction, and was shown a second yellow and then the red.

So one match ban, unless FA intervene and provide additionals should they want to run out that the RESPECT campaign is serious business, but that won't happen as it would be absolutely outrageous.

I give referees in England a lot of **** as there are some really poor ones and a handful that should be nowhere near the premier league.

Fair play to the referee last night, I thought he handled the occasion well and things never got out of his grasp. He had an excellent game and let a good bit of stuff go. I also thought the Arsenal right back was the right call. Young clearly went seeking the red card there, his dramatic diving again in play( sure there was contact, his reaction was outrageous) but the ref made a good call to give him the final warning.

I also like how Rooney seems to be mellowing out in his captaincy role. His conversations with referees seem to be mature and calm, where before he'd eat the head of the men with the whistle.

Must say though do not like the increased diving culture in the club. Rooney, Young, Di Maria and Januzaj are extremely frustrating with their antics.

We've turned into an ugly side. ****e football and lots of cheating now. If in doubt whack it up to Fellani and hunt in packs for the knockdowns or just try to con the ref.

bangkok

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody like to have a go at predicting the final top 7 in order?

Chelsea
Man City
Arsenal
Liverpool
Man Utd
Tottenham
Southampton

bangkok

rojo is a disaster waiting to happen, was very lucky not to receive a straight red card for the tackle on Cazorla

mcratsix

Chelsea
City
Arsenal
United
Liverpool
Southampton
Tottenham

Maximus Alexander

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody like to have a go at predicting the final top 7 in order?

Chelsea
Man City
Liverpool
Arsenal
Tottenham
Southampton
Man Utd

I'm almost always wrong about football predictions. So that's what I'm going with. :cool:

FutureGuy

Chelsea
Man City
Arsenal
Liverpool
Tottenham
Man Utd
Southampton

Vic Vinegar

Phil McNulty from the BBC is saying Shaw was taken off due to another injury.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

IF, long term, DiMaria doesn't work out, no one should be arguing it wasn't worth a try or the money at time of signing.

I personally didn't think he was worth the money!

But I mean that in a sense that I no longer believe that any player is worth the sums being paid these days, apart from the obvious two.

I really hope that in the next few seasons clubs start to have a little perspective on what they are actually paying for, again and again clubs are paying serious money for diminishing returns, and I'm not sure its worth it any more.

Firstly theres the risk factor, football is littered with examples of big money, can't fail, world class superstars who in fact couldn't perform at their new club. Who ever would have thought the great Andrei Shevchenko would fail at Chelsea? Or that the sublime Kaka would underperform at Madrid? That Ozil would flatter to decieve at Arsenal? But these guys aren't stats on a screen, they are human and just because they played well once is no guarantee at all they will recreate that year on year.

This is especially relevant because we have spent the guts of £80m on Di Maria and Falcao, when in fact this season we might as well just have kept Wellbeck and Nani for all the effect they have had.

I also fully believe there is marginal returns from buying these players. Is Di Maria really worth £30/40m more than some of the other options available? Are Suarez and Neymar really hundreds of millions of euro better than Pedro and Sanchez would have been?

There was a point when these risks on players were worthwhile but with spiraling prices I think we are reaching a tipping point, and paying outrageous sums for the likes of Di Maria or Bale is no longer the correct option. Imo there are maybe a dozen truly world class players out there, but after that there are hundreds of quality players that a good manager could build into a title winning team. Thats where we should be searching, buy 3 good £20m prospects instead of spunking £60m on the Di Maria's and Falcao's. Create the next flavour of the month instead of overpaying for last years.

Liam O

4 points or more from the next 2 games means top 4 imo, 2 or less and it'll probably be 6 and then if it's 3 points it's on the fence depending on who gets the win over United. I think it could be that close tbh. These are the biggest games by far of LVG's time.

MythicalMadMan

Hyperbolic meltdown today. how does this momentum thingy work where losing a one off cup tie effects professional players performances for a number of games. Is there a set number of games, does the stage of the cup matter, quality of the opposition lost to?

bangkok wrote: »

. Watching daley blind last night you'd swear he was out having a kick about with some friends, no urgency, slow passing, crap passing, he needed a good bolloxing on the pitch last night first half.(

Full marks for creativity, in finding a new way to say LVG should be out on the touchline.

1 Man UTD
2 2nd place team
3 3rd place team
4 4th place team
5 Blackburn rovers
6 6th place team
7 Liverpool

Best performance Ive ever ever ever seen from a Man United team untill we were cruely robbed by dirty rotten sneeeeeeeeeaky referee who was obviously told to make sure we lost the game. So no fault with any players all great maybe shaw and herrea were a bit quite in the 2nd half. More of the same from here on out. Titles ours. We have reverse momentum on our side.

xtal191

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody like to have a go at predicting the final top 7 in order?

Chelsea
City
Arsenal
Liverpol
Spurs
United
Southampton

intellectual dosser

Chelsea
City
Liverpool
United
Arsenal
Tottenham
Southampton