Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

The Moldy Gowl

Mata is the 'hardest working' player for utd this season. Headline is a bit subjective and so is the distance covered stat but its always nice to prove people wrong who were saying he is lazy and dosent track back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11570622/Revealed-Juan-Mata-is-Manchester-Uniteds-hardest-working-player.html

homerjay2005

irishfeen wrote: »

Well done Ander! - well deserved.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/593810805776351232

he is turning into a cracking player and one who will hopefully become a key member of our team for years to come. i honestly think he has alot of similiar qualities to a young Paul Scholes.

he is the one signing who has actually improved the team...the 5 others all have a huge amount of work to do in comparison.

Lord TSC

As the season is drawing near, the official United store is holding big sales on kits now. 40% off home kits, 60% off the aways. So if you've been saving your money up, now is the time

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

As the season is drawing near, the official United store is holding big sales on kits now. 40% off home kits, 60% off the aways. So if you've been saving your money up, now is the time

i doubt many people would be interested in buying a shirt now with a change of supplier coming in 3 months time!!!

bangkok

Julez wrote: »

Gerrard got a 2... what does a man need to do to get a 1?

His tackle on mata gave him a 2, probably get sent off before you even get on the pitch you get a 1

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Mata is the 'hardest working' player for utd this season. Headline is a bit subjective and so is the distance covered stat but its always nice to prove people wrong who were saying he is lazy and dosent track back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11570622/Revealed-Juan-Mata-is-Manchester-Uniteds-hardest-working-player.html

Distance covered indicates very little towards who is working hardest. The number and intensity of sprints needs to be factored in before it becomes useful information. But the papers never bother with looking at that question seriously.

I have my doubts that Mata has the physical capability to do the work required for playing wide at the highest level, but he hasn't been tested at that level in this team yet. When we play against the top European teams that can out pass us then we'll find out one way or the other.

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

His tackle on mata gave him a 2, probably get sent off before you even get on the pitch you get a 1

43 seconds,

bangkok

irishfeen wrote: »

Well done Ander! - well deserved.

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/593810805776351232

Well gowl, unless fellaini has an unreal may, looking like he will go the whole season without winning a player of the month like I said you can send me the money in the post

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

Well gowl, unless fellaini has an unreal may, looking like he will go the whole season without winning a player of the month like I said you can send me the money in the post

He is just such a humble guy he dosent want his other team mates to think they arent good enough, so lets them win.

#welldonefellaini

The Moldy Gowl

Pro. F wrote: »

Distance covered indicates very little towards who is working hardest. The number and intensity of sprints needs to be factored in before it becomes useful information. But the papers never bother with looking at that question seriously.

I have my doubts that Mata has the physical capability to do the work required for playing wide at the highest level, but he hasn't been tested at that level in this team yet. When we play against the top European teams that can out pass us then we'll find out one way or the other.

I know, thats why I had hardest working in inverted commas and said the distance covered stat is a bit pointless. But one of the criticisms rival fans had for him was that he doesnt do any running and is lazy, and a luxury player. Its just a simple stat.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I know, thats why I had hardest working in inverted commas and said the distance covered stat is a bit pointless. But one of the criticisms rival fans had for him was that he doesnt do any running and is lazy, and a luxury player. Its just a simple stat.

Yeah, that's fair. It's enough to prove that point anyway.

The Moldy Gowl

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, that's fair. It's enough to prove that point anyway.

I read something a few months back that top clubs don't use the stats we think are important. Assists, passing accuracy etc.

They are all into those stats but under pressure so passing backwards for the sake doesn't count and passing accuracy under pressur

Loads to catch up on..

Most importantly any word on Carrick?

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Loads to catch up on..

Most importantly any word on Carrick?

Should be back for the weekend. Rvp and di maria should also both start

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

If you actually compare him to other top strikers you'll find that he is among the best and most consistent strikers going for being involved with the play and keeping possession. You are imagining an issue where there is none.

It's farcical that he's being pushed as the scapegoat whenever we fail to deliver a result

He's a massive loss to the end of the campaign if he is in fact out for the remainder of the season IMO

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Should be back for the weekend. Rvp and di maria should also both start

Would like to believe it but LVG hasn't put players in the first 11 unless he's certain there 100% fit.
RVP had his stint in the reserves to prove his fitness for argument sake.
Can't see Carrick starting but would love to see it happen if he was available.
Question is has he trained this week...

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I read something a few months back that top clubs don't use the stats we think are important. Assists, passing accuracy etc.

They are all into those stats but under pressure so passing backwards for the sake doesn't count and passing accuracy under pressur

That's cool. I remember some of us were talking about this on the thread a few years ago and we agreed some sort of passing under pressure stat was needed.

Regarding assists, I think chances created is a good alternative. That accounts for teammates converting or missing the chances.

I read an article on ESPN during the January transfer window, talking about Lacazette and scouting strikers. The writer made the point that strikers' (both good and bad) conversion rates can vary wildly, so the number of quality shots is a better predictor of striker quality than goals. Interesting stuff it was.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

That's cool. I remember some of us were talking about this on the thread a few years ago and we agreed some sort of passing under pressure stat was needed.

Regarding assists, I think chances created is a good alternative. That accounts for teammates converting or missing the chances.

I read an article on ESPN during the January transfer window, talking about Lacazette and scouting strikers. The writer made the point that strikers' (both good and bad) conversion rates can vary wildly, so the number of quality shots is a better predictor of striker quality than goals. Interesting stuff it was.

https://notbottomline.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/who-is-europes-deadliest-finisher/

Good article from 2013 though.

Yea like ronaldo had 9 shots on goal wed night but didn't score. But for a player to even get that many chances during a game is phenomenal

Sand

Robson99 wrote: »

As regards Rooney can be brilliant and can dissapear for a few games. But in my mind he will always be a greedy Scouser who held the club to ransom

I'm always mystified that Rooney is so heavily criticised for daring to get his due as a key player at one of the biggest clubs in the world who are never short of cash.

Did a player who "can disappear for a few games" really hold the club to ransom? It doesn't make sense. If he's that average, if there was so many upgrades available why not sell him to Mourinho's Chelsea who were very interested? Man United doesn't donate its profits after wages to charity - I've no objection to the players getting paid what the market dictates they should. That's not greed, its not being an idiot.

Rooney is a United legend. He will finish his career with United as the clubs top scorer in history. Hes scored more goals for United than Best, Giggs, Scholes, Van Nistlerooy, Ronaldo and Cantona. He will shortly have scored more than Law and Charlton. That is the class of player he is rubbing shoulders with. He has done this whilst being punished for his versatility by being pushed out to the wing or back into midfield to accommodate other players. I cant post a link because I understand its against forum rules but there's a Youtube video entitled "Wayne Rooney All Goals for Manchester United" which is what it says on the tin (up to Feb 2015). Two things struck me about it - one, Rooooooooooooooooney is a great name for a striker and two, this guy is still delivering for United year in, year out.

And what truly puzzles me given the above is that a bizarre one way long distance love affair is maintained with Ronaldo. He didn't hold the club to ransom I guess, he just successfully forced a transfer to Real Madrid because he wanted to play for them, not United.

Sand

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Would like to believe it but LVG hasn't put players in the first 11 unless he's certain there 100% fit.
RVP had his stint in the reserves to prove his fitness for argument sake.
Can't see Carrick starting but would love to see it happen if he was available.
Question is has he trained this week...

He played Shaw against Chelsea when he felt he had too. He may feel the same about Carrick - he's seen the same games we have.

bangkok

Rooney is one of the best strikers ever to play in the league. Year in year out he is over the course of the season class. Soon to be united and England top scorer of all time

Pro. F

Sand wrote: »

I cant post a link because I understand its against forum rules but there's a Youtube video entitled "Wayne Rooney All Goals for Manchester United" which is what it says on the tin (up to Feb 2015). Two things struck me about it - one, Rooooooooooooooooney is a great name for a striker and two, this guy is still delivering for United year in, year out.

Youtube videos are okay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiOyPvuUwck

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

Rooney is one of the best strikers ever to play in the league. Year in year out he is over the course of the season class. Soon to be united and England top scorer of all time

He is indeed, no question about it, one of the greats.

He also could have been better.

The Moldy Gowl

I would hold my work to ransom if I could.

Sand

Pro. F wrote: »

Youtube videos are okay

Good to know

One other thing about that video is that each goal is only a few seconds, but the video is almost half an hour long.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

He is indeed, no question about it, one of the greats.

He also could have been better.

Agreed but I think a lot of people got caught up comparing Rooney to ronaldo, ronaldo went onto become one of the greatest players ever to play the game so bit of an unfair comparison

irishfeen

ESPN is reporting that we have "made our move" for Nathaniel Clyne ... if true what's people's thinking here? good enough for a United title winning team?

Sand

irishfeen wrote: »

ESPN is reporting that we have "made our move" for Nathaniel Clyne ... if true what's people's thinking here? good enough for a United title winning team?

Better than Valencia, more consistently available than Rafael. Yep, good enough.

irishfeen

Sand wrote: »

Better than Valencia, more consistently available than Rafael. Yep, good enough.

To be honest I don't know what to make of him, i'm yet to be convinced he would be good enough but i'm open for suggestions.

bangkok

Only thing I will say is lovern was excellent for saints, moved to Liverpool for 20m and looks terrible. Utd is a bigger step up than Liverpool so see how mentally challenging it is for Clyne as he def has the ability

Pro. F

I'd be very happy if we signed Clyne. Hope it's true.

irishfeen

Sky Sports reiterating Gundogan to United tonight... "Gundogan has been strongly linked with a move to Manchester United and the Old Trafford outfit are close to agreeing a £21.5m deal to sign him, according to Sky sources"

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Only thing I will say is lovern was excellent for saints, moved to Liverpool for 20m and looks terrible. Utd is a bigger step up than Liverpool so see how mentally challenging it is for Clyne as he def has the ability

Not many in that team looked good this season pretty same as with our own team im sure.
Every player is a risk but clyne has a good style of play hopefully if we do get him he will settle in well.

jayo26

irishfeen wrote: »

Sky Sports reiterating Gundogan to United tonight... "Gundogan has been strongly linked with a move to Manchester United and the Old Trafford outfit are close to agreeing a £21.5m deal to sign him, according to Sky sources"

They have to be fairly certain then surely or else they really would look stupid after the links last week.

irishfeen

jayo26 wrote: »

They have to be fairly certain then surely or else they really would look stupid after the links last week.

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking ... ironically just looking at Sky Sports Germany's website (they broke the story) and they mention "recently linked with Bayern Munich and top clubs in England"...

Sand

Its certainly been a step up for Shaw, but Clyne is a couple of years older and experienced to boot.

Clyne could turn out to not be the best RB in the league, but he's available, relatively cheap given his contract situation and he is an upgrade on what we have. I would only dismiss Clyne as a target if there was a clearly better option definitely available but there doesn't seem to be. We don't want a situation where the club chases shadows for three months and arrives in August with Valencia still the first pick RB.

irishfeen

Don't shoot me please

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/593890077102710784

dahat

Delighted to hear the Clyne news, hopefully ot works out.

People forget he was linked with us at the time he moved to Saints as he wanted regular football.

Lord TSC

Squeeee. Shame Ogden has no reliability with me any more

irishfeen

irishfeen wrote: »

Don't shoot me please

Rayne Wooney

I like Clyne but wouldn't pay crazy money for him

16/17 million is what the papers are going with and that would be okay

RobertKK

I suppose it takes a long time to count £100 million.
Don't think Bale is for sale, but who knows...

Rayne Wooney

100 million for Gareth Bale would be painfully stupid

He's worth about half that

keane2097

Great post by Sand. The Ronaldo thing has always been weird and pathetic.

DrPhilG

Thanks to whoever gave the heads up on cheap shirts in the official store.

Just nabbed both shirts, home and away, for £45.

I don't care that they're almost out of date, I refuse to pay £50+ for a shirt!

Shanotheslayer

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I like Clyne but wouldn't pay crazy money for him

16/17 million is what the papers are going with and that would be okay

16/17 Mill for a England international and one of the best right backs in league? Doubt he would be that cheap tbh. 20-25. I'd say

jayo26

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

16/17 Mill for a England international and one of the best right backs in league? Doubt he would be that cheap tbh. 20-25. I'd say

He is out of contract next summer so that may count for something,

Sand

Hes in the last year of his contract and refusing to sign a new one (loyalty eh...) afaik. Southamptons position is not that strong, and they are very clearly a selling club. I'd think he could be got for even less than 16 million.

#15

keane2097 wrote: »

Great post by Sand. The Ronaldo thing has always been weird and pathetic.

The way people talk about Real Madrid being his boyhood dream as an excuse for his desire to leave Utd is the worst. He is on record saying that he wanted to join Barca at one stage too. Hardly the words of a diehard Madrid fan.

I just think some Utd fans have a hard time accepting that he didn't consider Utd to be the pinnacle of his career.

Shanotheslayer

jayo26 wrote: »

He is out of contract next summer so that may count for something,

Even so. I'd say anything under 20 mill would be a gift. Especially in this day and age.