Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Gowlasauras Rex

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

The irony is in my username. I can't spot people who have had a bag of skittles a mile off.
You just brought it all down to pettiness. No discussion of tactics or anything. That's cool brah.


Hey mick. How are things?

Never forget (careful now) that things are great when you have had a few beers
Sorrows have been drowned. Just hoping we bounce back against palace

M!Ck^

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Never forget (careful now) ...

I was right about that, clearly.

The_Kew_Tour

First time since 1989 that United failed to score in 3 consecutive games

Lithium93_

Also first time in 13 years since United lost 3 games back to back.

The Moldy Gowl

Augeo wrote: »

I was right about that, clearly.

will you stop yurting around

I thought RVP did alright despite missing a penalty, it was a promising enough first game back in the senior team for him and he still has a part to play if used correctly.

That's where the positives from the loss end though. Stevie Wonder could see that we were going to struggle with penetration against a team who parked the bus and attacked on the counter, any team be it Chelsea or West Brom. I'm worried about a few things in particular now;

1) Top 4. Surely we're not going to let it go, are we? At this stage, I see United just about limp over the line. Liverpool must be kicking themselves, a win/draw against Hull earlier in the week would have had them right back in it and probable favourites to clinch it. They don't deserve it, but going on these last few games neither do we.

2) Angel Di Maria. His appearance today was a sad and worrying sight. Yes, he almost drilled a shot in under the crossbar from distance and nearly played a sublime ball to Mata at the back post, but every other touch from him was like he was playing the game for the first time. There is only so much grace that can be afforded to someone who has been out of the 11 as of late, but a time comes when you have to ask 'WTF is going on with Angel Di Maria?'

It's been far from an ideal first season for him, with United already undergoing transition when he arrived, then him picking up an injury or 2 followed by a frightening home invasion in his personal life, and now not being able to get back into the team following his most recent injury and suspension. Have to think and hope at this stage that a line will be drawn under this season and he will be hopefully a lot more settled in his head-space and adapted to the P.L. by next August.

As for selling him, not a chance and I'd hate to see it. It's taking great patience with Di Maria, but this will be rewarded ten-fold if he settles into the 11 and gets his confidence back.

3) The hesitation to take a chance in the final third, and 19 times out of 20 choosing to play it safe out to the wings. We must be one of the most predictable teams to defend against in the P.L. at the moment. When an opposing defender sees one of our attackers make a determined off-the-ball run, he has to know that our man-in-play is going to choose the safe pass instead and not play through the running attacker. Is it true that LVG only allows certain players/positions to make a risky play and the rest must retain/secure possession? I don't know, and if there is a shred of truth in that I trust that LVG knows better than I, but I don't like the thoughts of our players playing with such tactical 'shackles'. It is showing in our play as of late that they would rather hold on to possession than take a chance and lose it, hopefully LVG can see that this immediately needs addressing.

I miss the P.L. during the Summer months, especially when there's no W.C. or Euros, but fúck I can't wait for this season to be over.

MythicalMadMan

This 13 years 20 years 100 years crap annoys me, it might have some merit if every season was played exactly like the other but there not, so many variables involved in what goes into a set of results like we just had.

Saying it hasnt happened since x just seems to be trying to put more misery on a bad set of results for no reason

Robson99

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

**** no.


Literally. Thats so stupid and knee jerk.

I didn't say he should. Just throwing the question out there.
Although failing to secure fourth place considering the position we are/were in, combined with the fact that he continues to be unable to come up with a way of breaking down mediocre teams should have him under pressure.

I see you want to give him a pat on the back for beating Liverpool twice. I would save the arse licking until he secures 4th. 1 point from 6 against wba deserves a kick in the backside.
Reverting back to playing Rooney in the middle of the park and playing Fellani up top is far from a tactical genius

gosplan

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

The man is the foundation of modern football

Wow!!

Lord TSC

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Captain hindsight.

If we won the last 3 games, you wouldnt be saying that.

Obviously. Just mean it's been some rollercoaster for United fans in the last 3 weeks. I doubt many before the Chelsea game would have thought the fans would be abusing the manager and booing the players after a run of Chelsea, Everton, West Brom, with 0 points and 0 goals. But then no one would have guessed we'd walk out of the City, Spurs and Liverpool matches with 9 points either. We've hit a massive high and an incredible low within a 1 month window.

At this stage, I'd give anything for the league to be over now, CL football secured and transfer window open again.

FutureGuy

we need to take more risks against teams like WBA. If we lose the ball, fine, we are better than them.

All fine and dandy holding onto the ball so they can't hurt us but when you do nothing with it and a set piece can win them the game, what's the point.

RobertKK

De Gea and cash for Bale and that Di Maria has been told he can leave if he wants is what the ink says on the Sunday World.

Lord TSC

RobertKK wrote: »

De Gea and cash for Bale and that Di Maria has been told he can leave if he wants is what the ink says on the Sunday World.

On De Gea, I find I've already mentally accepted his departure. And honestly, given our total domination of possession as of late, the goalkeeper probably isn't as vital a cog as a good attacker is. If teams are only going to get 1 or 2 chances a game, and we're going to have 80% of the possession, I think I'd happily trade De Gea for Bale...

RobertKK

Lord TSC wrote: »

On De Gea, I find I've already mentally accepted his departure. And honestly, given our total domination of possession as of late, the goalkeeper probably isn't as vital a cog as a good attacker is. If teams are only going to get 1 or 2 chances a game, and we're going to have 80% of the possession, I think I'd happily trade De Gea for Bale...

If we were to get Lloris it would be alright.

LVG said a new team for next season.

Di Maria is quality even if his form is awful at the moment, but would sell him to PSG if they still want him, if Pogba was the player to replace him, still think Pogba might move back, he did in the past year show love towards United.
RB maybe Clyne instead of Valencia for maybe £15 million.
Gundogan for Carrick
Depay instead of Young
Two CBs so our top 3 central defenders are Smalling, Hummels and Laporte.

The new team
Lloris
Clyne, Hummels, Laporte, Rojo
Herrera, Gundogan Pogba
Bale, Rooney, Depay

Lets be pessimistic and say De Gea and cash for Bale = £65m cash
Lloris £25m
Clyne £15m
Hummels and Laporte £55m
Pogba £65m
Depay £25m
Total: £250 million

minus the sales excluding De Gea (already included) of
Evans
Rafael
Di Maria
Nani
Hernandez
Lets for the sake of it say £90 million

Total spend £160 million


There is a lot that can be done with £150/160m net spend, once we get CL.
I think LVG has the right approach but he doesn't have the right players, and after the last three games he will do a MK Dons on the team this transfer window.

tinofapples

FutureGuy wrote: »

we need to take more risks against teams like WBA. If we lose the ball, fine, we are better than them.

All fine and dandy holding onto the ball so they can't hurt us but when you do nothing with it and a set piece can win them the game, what's the point.

Kinda agree with this, we should be flying outta the blocks against these sides especially at home. Go hell for leather, if we nick a goal early on their gameplan has to change and thus leave them open. If we concede we have time to get back into the game.

adox

That's optimistic in the extreme Robert. There is no way I can see that many players coming in.

I think people are reading into what Van Gaal said about the squad being different next season. That could mean one addition or one player leaving, not half a new team or more.

I'd guess there will be 3-4 players coming in maximum with maybe £70-80 million spent.

Leroy42

What is going on with the team. We go from the drudge (but results) of early 2015 to the 9 points from 3 games against Spurs,City & Pool. Those results were a result! of a massive chance in the way we played. Suddenly we were fast, incisive and coupled with our control of possession meant that we forced teams onto the backfoot, created chances, took them and then gave little away to the other team.

Why have we suddenly reverted back to the previous drudge? It can't all be down to Carrick. What sort of philosophy only works with one player? Was the 3 wins (and how we played in them) the blip rather than the last three games were are actually more in line with how we were playing.

Any manager would come under pressure for failing to get more out of the attacking options that Utd have at their disposal. It seems that the only idea that LVG has come up with is to play Fellani up front!

I worry that the last three games (and the games prior to Spurs) are actually what we can expect for next year, regardless of who we sign. Carrick will be another year older, so he will be slower and injured more, so what will LVG do then? He seems to have no answer to missing Carrick.

The Moldy Gowl

Carrick had nothing to do with yesterday.

Lord TSC

I do like Lloris, but unless there's a release clause of some sorts, he's going to cost a lot more than 25m. And while he's a great keeper, again, I'm not sure if LVG's philosophy needs a world class keeper sitting there for 89 minutes twiddling his thumbs. There might be very good keepers available for far less who can do the same job; I see some papers linking us with Begovic for 14m, and him and Valdes competing for the top spot might be grand and let us focus attentions elsewhere.

I don't know if we'll have an entirely new team next year; I have a feeling that was more broken English than an announcement of a firesale.

I think we'll see De Gea, Raf, Evans, Falcao, Hernandez and Nani all sold. Not sure what way Di Maria goes, and I fear Mata could be switched out as well. I think I'd like to see (while staying realistic)....

New Keeper
New RB - New CB - Smalling - Shaw
Carrick
Herrera - Felaini
New LW - Rooney - New RW

Second Squad then...

Valdes
Valencia - Jones - McNair - Rojo
Perrira - New CM - Blind
Mata - New Striker - Young

Obviously a few switches there (new CM in first team while Carrick and/or Fel get dropped down, CB switches). But probably 5 new first teamers, and then one or two youths or something to fill out the squad...

Leroy42

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Carrick had nothing to do with yesterday.

When he plays we win, when he doesn't we don't.

Liam O

RobertKK wrote: »

If we were to get Lloris it would be alright.

LVG said a new team for next season.

Di Maria is quality even if his form is awful at the moment, but would sell him to PSG if they still want him, if Pogba was the player to replace him, still think Pogba might move back, he did in the past year show love towards United.
RB maybe Clyne instead of Valencia for maybe £15 million.
Gundogan for Carrick
Depay instead of Young
Two CBs so our top 3 central defenders are Smalling, Hummels and Laporte.

The new team
Lloris
Clyne, Hummels, Laporte, Rojo
Herrera, Gundogan Pogba
Bale, Rooney, Depay

Lets be pessimistic and say De Gea and cash for Bale = £65m cash
Lloris £25m
Clyne £15m
Hummels and Laporte £55m
Pogba £65m
Depay £25m
Total: £250 million

minus the sales excluding De Gea (already included) of
Evans
Rafael
Di Maria
Nani
Hernandez
Lets for the sake of it say £90 million

Total spend £160 million


There is a lot that can be done with £150/160m net spend, once we get CL.
I think LVG has the right approach but he doesn't have the right players, and after the last three games he will do a MK Dons on the team this transfer window.

And yet you could sign all if those players and still not win yesterday. Depay may have made a difference but as I said yesterday the issue I'd through the middle in attacking positions when up against physical back 4s and midfields.

The Moldy Gowl

Leroy42 wrote: »

When he plays we win, when he doesn't we don't.

When we score more goals we win as well.

That's Putting 2 and 2 together and getting 6. We didn't need him yesterday. The ball was always in the wear brom half.
Carrick didn't make a difference. It was the west brom tactics and myhill and poor finishing that lost the game.

Lord TSC

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

When we score more goals we win as well.

That's Putting 2 and 2 together and getting 6. We didn't need him yesterday. The ball was always in the wear brom half.
Carrick didn't make a difference. It was the west brom tactics and myhill and poor finishing that lost the game.

Agree here.

While we did miss Carrick for the Everton game, it wasn't that we needed someone protecting the back four yesterday, the trait that people pointed to for the Everton game.

We were missing incisive finishing and penetration yesterday.

Quandary

If Carrick had been playing it would have meant Herrera was able to play a far more advanced role and link up with Mata more effectively.

It would also have meant Rooney staying up front where he offers more to the team.

The loss of Carrick is costing us because of how we have had to shoehorn players into unnatural positions. When he is not in the team our tempo is always slower and we have less movement from the more creative players.

I hope to fcuk he is back for the palace game.

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Agree here.

While we did miss Carrick for the Everton game, it wasn't that we needed someone protecting the back four yesterday, the trait that people pointed to for the Everton game.

We were missing incisive finishing and penetration yesterday.

Not the main reason why we missed Carrick.

Herrera sitting deep doesn't allow for any penatration. With Carrick sitting behind and Rooney up front where he belongs brings more movement up front thus forward passing / throughballs and none of this see-saw ****e outside the box
I can't remember in the last three games when a player was through on goal or had a chance to run at the defence as it was backpedaling...

KH25

We dominated yesterday and lost to a lucky deflection. Carrick would have had no material effect on the team yesterday. The problem was that we didn't have anyone really trying to attack and take on their marker. Young tried in fairness to him but other than that there was too much sideways passing.

Kerrydude1981

I think whats missing is some one who can just pull something out of the bag,a match winner,

WBA were a tight yesterday,we just needed some one who could fire one in from long range or make a chance out of noting.

The Moldy Gowl

Herrera played advanced yesterday when we had possession. Smalling and McNair were sitting on the half way line.

Leroy42

KH25 wrote: »

We dominated yesterday and lost to a lucky deflection. Carrick would have had no material effect on the team yesterday. The problem was that we didn't have anyone really trying to attack and take on their marker. Young tried in fairness to him but other than that there was too much sideways passing.

Ah, just a lucky deflection. Super so all is well. Guess the other two losses, no goals etc are just a blip as well.

Well thats grand so. Sorry for worrying.

KH25

KH25 wrote: »

We dominated yesterday and lost to a lucky deflection. Carrick would have had no material effect on the team yesterday. The problem was that we didn't have anyone really trying to attack and take on their marker. Young tried in fairness to him but other than that there was too much sideways passing.

If there was more width then Young could have got alot more out of the game
The formation was too rigid because of the shoehorning of Rooney in midfield

West brom had no need to be stretched due to all the lathargic play directly in front of them

Lord TSC

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Herrera played advanced yesterday when we had possession. Smalling and McNair were sitting on the half way line.

Was going to say. Everyone was playing advanced yesterday. At times, we had five wide accross the "midfield" outside the box, and we didn't need a midfielder sitting deeper.

RobertKK

Van Gaal can be one of the most ruthless managers in the game as seen at United with what happened to that team that played MK Dons.
Most of them banished...

Presuming CL and presuming has gotten riskier and riskier of late.

Defense will be strengthened, LVG won't want the nightmares he had when most got injured, that is why I say two CBs given more games we will have to play.
Replacement for Carrick is vital, Carrick still has a big role to play but we can't reply on him.
Presuming Pogba is being sold, United need to be on the front line to get him back.
If we can get Bale by using De Gea, so be it. Massive goal threat.
Young doesn't get enough goals but he has shown his worth this season, so Depay who seems prolific.

Lets say
New goalkeeper
Valdes
New right back
Valencia
New right CB
New right CB
Smalling
McNair
Jones
Rojo
Blind
Shaw
Herrera
Carrick
New defensive midfielder
New midfielder
Fellaini
Mata
Pereira
New left wing/Bale
Rooney
Young
Van Persie
New right wing/Depay

That is 8 players new, but this season we got
Valdes
Rojo
Shaw
Blind
Herrera
Di Maria
Falcao

Which was 7 new players, ok one is on loan but was costly...but it is not like he isn't open to big changes.

Nalz

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Carrick had nothing to do with yesterday.

You cant say he wouldnt have made a difference, regardless of how the game went. he might have been quicker and more precise distributing the ball to the centre forwards or out wide than Rooney or Herrera.

I love how people are quick to jump on the people who say Carrick wouldn't have made a difference, just because we dominated the ball and had 26 attempts.

He could of easily made the difference by influencing the pace of the game or being more accurate than any of our middle 3 yesterday.

Robson99

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Carrick had nothing to do with yesterday.

Id agree. Carrick would have made little difference yesterday. Would have made a difference against Everton though.
The last 3 performances /defeats are the managers fault. Clueless with a way to break teams down who park the bus and clueless in team selections. Mind you he has been clueless for the majority of the season.
He gets things right for a couple of games and then reverts to type. This spoof about having all the possession is fu*k all good when we cant score a goal.

Nalz

Don't kill me... Just a stat of interest rather than contrast. I just noticed we've 4 points more than we did this time last season. A season which we reached the CL quarter finals, sacked our manager, played dire football and came 7th.

Strange game football!

Nalz

Robson99 wrote: »

Id agree. Carrick would have made little difference yesterday. Would have made a difference against Everton though.

Would he have moved the ball quicker or seen runs quicker yesterday? Played passes better and dictated the game better? Theres more to dictating the game than just possession. I disagree slightly. I'm not saying he would have made a massive difference, but he could have been "the" difference. Even playing in front of the back 4... potentially that freekick would never have happened (big ifs and ands there though).

bucketybuck

Robson99 wrote: »

Id agree. Carrick would have made little difference yesterday. Would have made a difference against Everton though.
The last 3 performances /defeats are the managers fault. Clueless with a way to break teams down who park the bus and clueless in team selections. Mind you he has been clueless for the majority of the season.
He gets things right for a couple of games and then reverts to type. This spoof about having all the possession is fu*k all good when we cant score a goal.

The end of season review of LVG is not going to be pretty, whether we get top four or not.

KH25

Leroy42 wrote: »

Ah, just a lucky deflection. Super so all is well. Guess the other two losses, no goals etc are just a blip as well.

Well thats grand so. Sorry for worrying.

Really don't understand the need to attack my post. I said nothing about not scoring etc. I was responding to the comments that we missed Carrick. I didn't call it a blip either. I said we didn't have enough players trying to attack.

Robson99

Trilla wrote: »

Would he have moved the ball quicker or seen runs quicker yesterday? Played passes better and dictated the game better? Theres more to dictating the game than just possession. I disagree slightly. I'm not saying he would have made a massive difference, but he could have been "the" difference. Even playing in front of the back 4... potentially that freekick would never have happened (big ifs and ands there though).

You have fair argument too Trilla. But we failed to break down a very average team. This has more to do with the manager and front five players IMO than if Carrick was there. If we are reliant on having Carrick in the team to beat poor opposition then we are goosed. Maybe the free-kick would not have happened if he was there!

MagicIRL

There were two highlights yesterday.

#1 The Rio Chant.

#2 How well Darren Fletcher can still play.

I believe that this United team will not lift silverware with Wayne Rooney in the team playing anywhere other than #9 striker. I think the United squad is a bit like the City squad. It has aged dramatically, and really needs a core overhaul. It was started last summer... it needs to be finished this summer. Also, pass the ball forward please and thank you. All that sideways passing outside the West Brom box had me cross eyed.

TheDoc

De Gea won't be going.

Hummels , Clyne and Depay will be in. Few people like Chico , Rafael out.

Bale sounds nonsense.

Can only see three coming in.

While yesterdays result was frustrating, I think its going to be OK and I'd say Van Gaal will be relatively happy how its going.

Even with three defeats...we are on a run of dominating possesio and games. We are only offering the opposition minimal chances and they are just taking it.

When you build a strategy around dominating possession...breaking down deep defending will be a big part of it. Now that we are comfortable controlling games...I'd say the final third stuff is next to come.

Since Van Gaal went to his coveted 4-3-3 it become very clear what he is doing and I'm happy with jpw its going...despite the three losses. Can't quickly forget mauling Spurs, Liverpool and City.

This is also priceless preparation and learning for the CL where this style of play will really shine IMO.

Quandary

Let's just hope we can get a win against Palace. They seem to have become a bit complacent since passing the 40 point mark and lost their last two home games at Selhurst.

If we can take all 3 points there it will help hugely.

Nalz

Raging top 3 is more or less gone now. Be nice not to have to qualify for the CL group stages.

Strumms

very frustrating yesterday, we should be beating West Brom at home, 3 points yesterday would have meant we only needed another 3 to secure champions league football, we should still achieve it but with 3 losses in a row and not a goal scored its a pretty frustrating run. Palace away next up.. Not the sort of game we want this time of year it will be another battle, Arsenal at home and Hull away last day of the season are not gimmes either, we may end up getting through courtesy of Liverpool dropping points.

Anyone else think De Gea might be stalling to see how we do in terms of qualifying for Champions Leage ? I can't understand why he would not just sign or else just say he is off... Strange one.

irishfeen

Trilla wrote: »

Raging top 3 is more or less gone now. Be nice not to have to qualify for the CL group stages.

I'd bite your hand off for 4th right now - Liverpool back in this race big time.. Palace away next week will be very hard!

Whatsisname

The only positive thing I can take from Palace next is they're a very attacking side so we'll have space to exploit, although in saying that, if they choose to sit back and let us pass it around and hit us on the counter with the pace they've got, we could be very likely looking at 4 losses in a row.

irishfeen

Whatsisname wrote: »

The only positive thing I can take from Palace next is they're a very attacking side so we'll have space to exploit, although in saying that, if they choose to sit back and let us pass it around and hit us on the counter with the pace they've got, we could be very likely looking at 4 losses in a row.

I think Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton and West Brom showed there is only one way to play United... sit back, let United fanny around with the ball for 70%+ of the time and catch us on the break or from a set piece...

Apart from Arsenal I think Palace and Hull will do a Everton/West Brom on us - it will be up to us to take our chances...

MagicIRL

Watching Chelsea here at the moment. People moan about their style but everyone in that starting 11 has a job to do and they do it well. United need the same ethos in LvGs starting 11.

De Gea - If he stays, great. Superb goalkeeper. Don't really need to say anything else.

Valencia - He's not a right back and he's a poor right winger. Squad player at best and even then it's touch-and-go. Needs to be replaced asap.

Smalling - Has his moments. Seems to be growing into his role and is decent with the ball at his feet. Offers decent height too. Needs a regular CB partner to work with.

Jones - Seems dumber than a bag of rocks. Injury prone but can put in a decent shift. Squad player.

Rojo - I like Rojo, he's a no nonsense defender. Squad player as he can play CB and LB.

Evans - Disastrous every time I watch him play.

Rafael - Decent going forward, a bit sketchy defending at times. Also very injury prone. No favoured by LvG for whatever reason.

Shaw - Has shown what he's capable of. Hampered with injury but will be a beast when fit.

Carrick - A superb defensive midfielder. Reads the game beautifully but he's coming tot he end of his career, and is arguably already at the end.

Blind - Good footballer. I think he needs time to settle in the league.

Herrera - Always looking for the ball from midfield. Loves to get forward.

Fellaini - Good footballer. Good going forward. Offers height to the team and a new dimension to play if things aren't going to plan. I don't think he's a #10, and I think himself and Herrera play relatively the same role but Herrera plays it better. Great option off the bench.

Di Maria - We know what he's capable of. Shades of Nani in that I think he needs to play week in, week out to produce the goods. Give him a role like Hazard at Chelsea and he'll come good.

Young - Has times when he's good going forward but never great. Squad player.

Rooney - Either play him at #9 or not at all. Has been ****e for some time now, too. I'd bench him but he's the club captain so it'll never happen.

Van Persie - Out of form but has that ability. Another great bench option.

Falcao - Just never happened for him at United. Not sure if that's LvGs style of play or his injury.

---

So, looking at that list off the top of my head, I think something like this needs to be done.

De Gea (Or Lloris)
An actual Right-back - Smalling - New CB - Shaw
New DM - Herrera
Di Maria - Mata - New LW
New CF

(Bench options depending on opposition: Carrick, Blind, Rojo, Rooney, RVP, Fellaini, Young, Valencia?)

The team needs pace that can deliver that quality ball and offer a threat on their own. Depay looks like a great shout if it happens, but a replacement for Carrick is critical.

Cantona's Collars

Class and John Terry don't often go together but fair play to him in his post match interview offering his condolences to Rio.

Nalz

zerks wrote: »

Class and John Terry don't often go together but fair play to him in his post match interview offering his condolences to Rio.

Words are cheap imho... class and john terry never go together, unless you're talking about his performances sometimes. Theres a user on boards called JT26 I just noticed. I nearly puked (genuinely) when I saw it.

irishfeen wrote: »

I'd bite your hand off for 4th right now - Liverpool back in this race big time.. Palace away next week will be very hard!

Oh me too... its just prior to the Everton game, 2nd was on the cards