Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Maximus Alexander

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.

Giggsy11

thelad95 wrote: »

Are those real quotes? Sounds pretty disrespectful towards RVP but you know LVG calls it as it is

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Anything from the UtdReport twitter account should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

That's such a weird tweet.

Those are not made up quotes.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32575218

bangkok

Trilla wrote: »

so who's on pens now? Mata or Herrera?

Phil Jones!!

J. Marston

bangkok wrote: »

Phil Jones!!

That technique.

Xenophile

Van Gaal,another day sitting on in his seat beside Giggs ( knees up Mother Brown) , compare this with Dan Shanahan an amateur mentor not even the Manager so animated in the League Game against Cork.

I am firmly of the opinion that Van Gaal is sitting there dreaming up excuses as to why we were beaten.

Kirby

J. Marston wrote: »

That technique.

That looks really badly photoshopped which is amazing as it's dead real. :P

Kirby

Xenophile wrote: »

Van Gaal,another day sitting on in his seat beside Giggs ( knees up Mother Brown) , compare this with Dan Shanahan an amateur mentor not even the Manager so animated in the League Game against Cork..

Animation on the sidelines accomplishes nothing. It strokes the managers ego and lets the uninformed masses think the manager is "effecting the game" but he's not.

Tactical changes and personnel changes effect games. Screaming at players and jumping up on down on the sidelines do not.

Lovely Bloke

"he should jump around a bit more" sums up this forum lately.

How can grown adults post that as a serious critique of a manager who quite clearly has the CV to back up his methods.

Bizarre.

MagicIRL

Xenophile wrote: »

Van Gaal,another day sitting on in his seat beside Giggs ( knees up Mother Brown) , compare this with Dan Shanahan an amateur mentor not even the Manager so animated in the League Game against Cork.

I am firmly of the opinion that Van Gaal is sitting there dreaming up excuses as to why we were beaten.

If you want to delete this post we can all promise to forget it ever happened.

bucketybuck

Kirby wrote: »

Tactical changes and personnel changes effect games.

If only LVG wasn't so underwhelming in that regard also.

Mr.Crinklewood

We need a manager that can kick water bottles and throw his coat to the ground.

MagicIRL

Kirby

It's one of the things that always perplexes me. Your aggression isnt going to translate onto the pitch. The players aren't going to take in what you are screaming at them. And quite a few of them do it.

Complicated signals too. I think Rafa Benitez is a decent manager, but the way he used to flap his arms about like a penguin giving signals from the sidelines was ridiculous. It's just an ego trip.....the players havent a clue what you are saying and you arent helping the team. Always reminded me of this.

Liam O

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

"he should jump around a bit more" sums up this forum lately.

How can grown adults post that as a serious critique of a manager who quite clearly has the CV to back up his methods.

Bizarre.

He's changed formations about 10 times this season in fairness, his CV is irrelevant when he clearly doesn't have a clue a lot of the time. How many times this season has he come out after a game of 60-70% possession that United have failed to win and said it was a great performance? That annoys me a lot more than the times Moyes got grief last year for saying that improvement is needed. Pure head in the sand stuff and he doesn't have any of the legitimate excuses Moyes had at this stage of the season.

If Fellaini wasn't around this season there'd be nobody capable at all of making a difference through the middle except maybe Mata but he's still a pass first kind of player. LVG has had his players for a year, 150m spent and the tactics are the exact same if not worse than Moyes was getting grief for last season. Now he's probably going to rip up the team again and there'll be another season of transition. His comments about new squad next season that were posted here the other day are very alarming as at this stage, 2 transfer windows in he should have his starting 11 for next season almost ready to go in his head. That's clearly not the case and I hope not to see another Summer that leads to panic at the end and stupid tactics.

Pro. F

I thought Herrera did well defensively on Saturday. WBA didn't offer much going forward, but it looked to me like he did take up good defensive positions whenever they tried to counter.

He will have plenty still to learn for playing that position, but he already looks better at it than Blind. Which tbf, wouldn't be hard.

glued

Pro. F wrote: »

I thought Herrera did well defensively on Saturday. WBA didn't offer much going forward, but it looked to me like he did take up good defensive positions whenever they tried to counter.

He will have plenty still to learn for playing that position, but he already looks better at it than Blind. Which tbf, wouldn't be hard.

Our problem is that everyone outside of Young and Herrera are completely devoid of any ideas when teams decide not to attack. I think Opta had a stat not too long ago that cross field passes are proven to be pretty useless in building an attack. Rooney had very little ideas bar pinging the ball constantly over to Valencia or Mata who themselves failed to create enough.

While its evidently clear that this team has made progress there is still massive work to be done and a string of good performances seems to have clouded the memory of a lot of people. We still need huge additions to the squad

The Moldy Gowl

I mean like what can be done when a team sits 10 players on their box??

Get it wide? Check.
Cross? Get beaten in the air.
Di Maria? Playing crap
Valencia? Valencia.
Long shots? Deflections.
Through balls? Keeper collects.

Playing against those teams is a nightmare.

adox

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I mean like what can be done when a team sits 10 players on their box??

Get it wide? Check.
Cross? Get beaten in the air.
Di Maria? Playing crap
Valencia? Valencia.
Long shots? Deflections.
Through balls? Keeper collects.

Playing against those teams is a nightmare.

The answer is have the players try and beat there man. One man beaten and the whole shape of the opposition team can change,opening up space and opportunities to find space and score a goal.

Trying to pass your way to goal without ever committing to taking any opposition player on can be relatively easy to defend against when you play deep, unless the team doing it are excellent at it which Utd currently aren't.

Also a mediocre tempo to you play when passing the ball around is simply not good enough.

glued

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I mean like what can be done when a team sits 10 players on their box??

Get it wide? Check.
Cross? Get beaten in the air.
Di Maria? Playing crap
Valencia? Valencia.
Long shots? Deflections.
Through balls? Keeper collects.

Playing against those teams is a nightmare.

it is a complete nightmare but having van Persie drop deep to collect the ball was silly. As soon as WBA started to push up and keep a higher line we completely fell flat and as the game finished out they dropped completely back and we still had no ideas. Valencia and Rooney were completely useless and often inhibited the play. I just don't see how Tou can justify Rooney's inclusion in the side as a striker or as a midfielder.

Pro. F

glued wrote: »

Our problem is that everyone outside of Young and Herrera are completely devoid of any ideas when teams decide not to attack. I think Opta had a stat not too long ago that cross field passes are proven to be pretty useless in building an attack. Rooney had very little ideas bar pinging the ball constantly over to Valencia or Mata who themselves failed to create enough.

While its evidently clear that this team has made progress there is still massive work to be done and a string of good performances seems to have clouded the memory of a lot of people. We still need huge additions to the squad

I don't rate Young's performances much myself. He does beat players, but his crossing from the left is not effective enough imo. I've thought he could do well playing from the right, but LVG doesn't seem to be interested in that and, iirc, the one time he tried it Young was poor.

My first thought on replying to your post is "we don't need huge additions" but there are still so many holes in the squad. We lack a bit of quality and dept, which is ridiculous considering the money spent. One good winger, two creative CMs and a good DM to compete with, or preferably replace, Carrick is needed imo (all assuming we are keeping this formation, which I doubt LVG is sure that he is). Then there are the one or two defenders that are needed as well.

Sand

Liam O wrote: »

He's changed formations about 10 times this season in fairness, his CV is irrelevant when he clearly doesn't have a clue a lot of the time. How many times this season has he come out after a game of 60-70% possession that United have failed to win and said it was a great performance? That annoys me a lot more than the times Moyes got grief last year for saying that improvement is needed. Pure head in the sand stuff and he doesn't have any of the legitimate excuses Moyes had at this stage of the season. .

Eh, once?

United have lost 5 premier league games where they had 60%+ possession: Swansea (home and away), Chelsea (away), Everton (away) and WBA (home) and drawn 3 premier league games where they had 60%+ possession: Burnley (away), WBA (away) and Aston Villa (away).

The Chelsea defeat is the only game where he described the performance as being great. Most people did agree that United played extremely well and were unlucky to be beaten.

Every other defeat/draw he was very honest and realistic - one thing he stressed again and again was that only goals counted, and that United had to take the chances they created and had failed to do so. Everton deserved to win because they were the more aggressive and motivated side. Against Burnley the team did not do enough. Against Swansea (home) the performance was disappointing and nervous and he took personal responsibility as manager.

People have this idea that he is off in an ivory tower keeping a league table of possession stats. It is simply not the case. He sees possession as the best way to score goals and win games. Possession to him is a tool, not the end and he is very clear on that.

irishfeen

Severely hungover his morning lads here's one for ye -

What seasons did United last finish 3rd and 4th in the league?

.. no cheating now - I got the 3rd easy but 4th got me....

Liam O

I thought Herrera could have done a hell of a lot better on Saturday. Got into some great positions but his passing was terrible. Many times he crossed and missed everyone and his balls over the top were off the mark. Could have made a difference in a game like that.

Hococop

irishfeen wrote: »

Severely hungover his morning lads here's one for ye -

What seasons did United last finish 3rd and 4th in the league?

.. no cheating now - I got the 3rd easy but 4th got me....

I think 3rd was the 04/05 season, Everton finished 4th but liverpool won the cl so did they lose their place ?

Guess for 4th place, was it the season before fergie took charge or the season he took charge?

Giggsy11

adox wrote: »

The answer is have the players try and beat there man. One man beaten and the whole shape of the opposition team can change,opening up space and opportunities to find space and score a goal.

Trying to pass your way to goal without ever committing to taking any opposition player on can be relatively easy to defend against when you play deep, unless the team doing it are excellent at it which Utd currently aren't.

Also a mediocre tempo to you play when passing the ball around is simply not good enough.

Exactly, this is where you expect players like Di Maria, Young, Valencia to step up as they are capable of that but some reasons they don't. Also beating fullback near byline won't create any problem as every cross was easily cleared, it should be towards the goal.

Adding someone with real pace and quick feet will help a lot against teams playing very defensively.

adox

I do hope whatever money is spent is the summer is spent more wisely than last summer. £150 million spent on players maybe worth a half to two thirds of that value.

Taking a step back for a minute, it still has to be remembered the huge changes that have taken place over the last 24 months at the, up until then, most stable club in the country.

Depending on the smount of players brought in and sent out again this summer, it could be the 2016-2017 season before we see the full benefit of it.

Manutd_4life

United are set to sign Belgian starlet goalkeeper Ilias Moutha Sebtaoui from Standard Liege after fast-tracking the deal. [Daily Mail] #MUFC


Anyone know anything about him???

irishfeen

Hococop wrote: »

I think 3rd was the 04/05 season, Everton finished 4th but liverpool won the cl so did they lose their place ?

Guess for 4th place, was it the season before fergie took charge or the season he took charge?

Bang on - season before SAF took over -

2004/05 - 3rd (77pts)
1985/86 - 4th (76pts)

Our lowest ever finish in the league was 22nd in 1930/31 and 1921/22... when Ireland became a free state United were playing in Division 2

The Moldy Gowl

adox wrote: »

I do hope whatever money is spent is the summer is spent more wisely than last summer. £150 million spent on players maybe worth a half to two thirds of that value.

Taking a step back for a minute, it still has to be remembered the huge changes that have taken place over the last 24 months at the, up until then, most stable club in the country.


Depending on the smount of players brought in and sent out again this summer, it could be the 2016-2017 season before we see the full benefit of it.

I think the money was invested well. It can't all be captain hindsight, if di Maria and falcao played to what they are able to we would have won the leauge

Sand

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Exactly, this is where you expect players like Di Maria, Young, Valencia to step up as they are capable of that but some reasons they don't. Also beating fullback near byline won't create any problem as every cross was easily cleared, it should be towards the goal.

Adding someone with real pace and quick feet will help a lot against teams playing very defensively.

The problem is getting in behind the two banks of 4 (or 5 even) that teams put up. United typically hold possession in the opposition half and look for space that often isn't there when there is ten men in the opponents penalty area.

I do wonder if there's any value to holding possession and playing triangles deep in Uniteds half to get their lone striker chasing shadows until the opposition get frustrated, lose discipline and start moving forward trying to intercept. That could lead to space in which to attack, but I don't know if the fans (or players) would wear it for long.

adox

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I think the money was invested well. It can't all be captain hindsight, if di Maria and falcao played to what they are able to we would have won the leauge

Yeah I know it looks like Captain Hindsight but I'm sure there were plenty on here(including me) calling it at the time of the signings(although please don't be one of those who pulls up posts from me from last summer to prove me wrong, just in case �� )

Giggsy11

Sand wrote: »

The problem is getting in behind the two banks of 4 (or 5 even) that teams put up. United typically hold possession in the opposition half and look for space that often isn't there when there is ten men in the opponents penalty area.

I do wonder if there's any value to holding possession and playing triangles deep in Uniteds half to get their lone striker chasing shadows until the opposition get frustrated, lose discipline and start moving forward trying to intercept. That could lead to space in which to attack, but I don't know if the fans (or players) would wear it for long.

We didn't play with good tempo to break their shape. It was too slow and our strikers don't have quick feet to create something out of nothing. Then playing Fellaini as #9 just negated everything.

The Moldy Gowl

adox wrote: »

Yeah I know it looks like Captain Hindsight but I'm sure there were plenty on here(including me) calling it at the time of the signings(although please don't be one of those who pulls up posts from me from last summer to prove me wrong, just in case 😀).

I will in my bollox go to that trouble. I don't think it was money not well spent.

Sure we may have paid 20 million more for di Maria and 10 for shaw but it's clutching at straws.
Then we got falcao on loan. We all hoped he would be great.
Then bough a defender and 2 midfielders. It was a good summer, but could most certainly do with getting in another 3/4 players this summer who are first team quality.

Maximus Alexander

CB, RB, CM, Nani, Striker needed imo.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

I thought Herrera could have done a hell of a lot better on Saturday. Got into some great positions but his passing was terrible. Many times he crossed and missed everyone and his balls over the top were off the mark. Could have made a difference in a game like that.

Jaysis, I'd have said his passing was fine. Not as good as what Carrick would have done with all that space, but still good enough if the rest of the team had been up to the task.

Will I Amnt

At the time of signing Di Maria and Falcao the overwhelming consensus was absolute delight. They were 2 of the biggest names in the game, it's easy to say it was money badly spent after they both flopped or come out with a ridiculous statement like "would you trust van Gaal with another 150m" :rolleyes:

The only opposition to their signing I can recall was the poster Kat, and that was only because he worships the knickers off Danny Welbeck.

Liam O

Pro. F wrote: »

Jaysis, I'd have said his passing was fine. Not as good as what Carrick would have done with all that space, but still good enough if the rest of the team had been up to the task.

It was good in deeper positions but around the box there were a lot of times he should have done better. Fellaini played deeper than him the first half and I thought Herrera was getting into good positions around the box and playing in bad balls that missed their targets.

Giggsy11

Will I Amnt wrote: »

At the time of signing Di Maria and Falcao the overwhelming consensus was absolute delight. They were 2 of the biggest names in the game, it's easy to say it was money badly spent after they both flopped or come out with a ridiculous statement like "would you trust van Gaal with another 150m" :rolleyes:

The only opposition to their signing I can recall was the poster Kat, and that was only because he worships the knickers off Danny Welbeck.

Still have high hopes for Di Maria. He will become excellent player for us next season.

Maximus Alexander

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Still have high hopes for Di Maria. He will become excellent player for us next season.

Don't ya know he'll be gone this summer?

Giggsy11

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Don't ya know he'll be gone this summer?

Forgot we replaced him with Bale. :cool:

Sand

Will I Amnt wrote: »

At the time of signing Di Maria and Falcao the overwhelming consensus was absolute delight. They were 2 of the biggest names in the game, it's easy to say it was money badly spent after they both flopped or come out with a ridiculous statement like "would you trust van Gaal with another 150m" :rolleyes:

The only opposition to their signing I can recall was the poster Kat, and that was only because he worships the knickers off Danny Welbeck.

Falcao has definitely flopped, but I don't think its fair to describe Di Maria as a flop. Yet anyway. There was some talk of Coutinho being player of the year, with John Terry publicising his vote for him, but Di Maria had very comparable stats to him (goals, assists, chances created etc) despite significantly less playing time.

Even with Di Maria being poor against WBA, he still forced Myhill to make a very good save late on. I wouldn't write him off yet - if he recovers his confidence over the summer, he could be a very important player next season. Certainly I cant see Young being a better option, especially if people are crying out for players who are willing to take risks to score goals.

Will I Amnt

Di Maria has flopped so far, for the money that was paid and the wages he is on he has most certainly flopped this year.

I also think he can put it right and haven't given up hope on him whatsoever.

adox

Will I Amnt wrote: »

At the time of signing Di Maria and Falcao the overwhelming consensus was absolute delight. They were 2 of the biggest names in the game, it's easy to say it was money badly spent after they both flopped or come out with a ridiculous statement like "would you trust van Gaal with another 150m" :rolleyes:

The only opposition to their signing I can recall was the poster Kat, and that was only because he worships the knickers off Danny Welbeck.

Not sure if this is directed at me but the point I was trying to make was, not that we spent money on the wrong players but that we overpaid for most of them.

Hococop

adox wrote: »

Not sure if this is directed at me but the point I was trying to make was, not that we spent money on the wrong players but that we overpaid for most of them.

Problem was we were out of the cl so we would have to pay a bit more and it also didn't help when ed said money was not going to be a problem

Will I Amnt

adox wrote: »

Not sure if this is directed at me but the point I was trying to make was, not that we spent money on the wrong players but that we overpaid for most of them.

Not directed at anyone in particular man, except the quoted part from the Arsenal fan the other day. I'm just seeing it a bit more lately, even Liverpool fans using it to defend Rodgers' poor transfer record.

Giggsy11

Hopefully we sign either Kondogbia or Schneiderlin. Would replace Carrick in the team, without Carrick we look **** and it's about time we replace him with quality players.

Giggsy11

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Not directed at anyone in particular man, except the quoted part from the Arsenal fan the other day. I'm just seeing it a bit more lately, even Liverpool fans using it to defend Rodgers' poor transfer record.

Sand

adox wrote: »

Not sure if this is directed at me but the point I was trying to make was, not that we spent money on the wrong players but that we overpaid for most of them.

You pay whatever it takes to get the player. You can only overpay if there was a credible chance to get the player for less money. I don't think there was a scenario that United, out of Champions league football and dealing with clubs who didnt want to sell and rivals who definitely wanted to compete for the signings, could have paid 20% or 25% less and got the player.

Athletic Bilbao is a horrific club to buy a player from, so United had to pay every single penny it took to get Herrera out of his contract with them. Di Maria came very close to signing for PSG last summer, and United got him because PSG could not outbid them and adhere to FFP. Blind I think was relatively value for money. Squad player for relatively small money. Rojo the same - decent player for relatively little money. Shaw cost a lot, but he was being chased by Chelsea who had Champions League football and a title challenge to offer so again United had to pay what it took.

Falcao is clearly a flop, and any money spent on him would be a waste with hindsight - but again he was going to sign for Real Madrid until United flashed the cash to get the player.

Nalz

Kirby wrote: »

That looks really badly photoshopped which is amazing as it's dead real. :P

Yup it's real, unfortunately I was at that game. My only moyes game.

Sand

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Hopefully we sign either Kondogbia or Schneiderlin. Would replace Carrick in the team, without Carrick we look **** and it's about time we replace him with quality players.

Yup, Carrick is a great player but he's only played 90 minutes of PL football 15 times for United this season. And that's in a season with little or no other competitive games. He cant be considered a first team player next season when he's missing for most games - he's got to be managed carefully and deployed in games as and when needed.