Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

At the time of signing Di Maria and Falcao the overwhelming consensus was absolute delight. They were 2 of the biggest names in the game, it's easy to say it was money badly spent after they both flopped or come out with a ridiculous statement like "would you trust van Gaal with another 150m" :rolleyes:

The only opposition to their signing I can recall was the poster Kat, and that was only because he worships the knickers off Danny Welbeck.

Like is often the case, the overwhelming consensus was wrong.

I know that I said at the time there was a problem with our transfers because we were going to end up with too many similar players. Three expensive, high profile centre-forwards, plus Mata, looked like a bad idea at the time to me. When I said as much I was told various nonsense like "you can't pass up the opportunity to sign these players" and "the full-backs will provide the width/pace we need".

I'm sure I wasn't the only one with those concerns, but I can't remember who the others were.

So, given that some of us saw the problems with how Van Gaal was spending the money last summer and predicted the issues that came to pass a mile off, it's perfectly logical to have doubts about trusting him to spend the club's money sensibly this summer.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

It was good in deeper positions but around the box there were a lot of times he should have done better. Fellaini played deeper than him the first half and I thought Herrera was getting into good positions around the box and playing in bad balls that missed their targets.

Herrera played deeper than Fellaini in the first half, but when he was near the box I think he used the ball well.

MythicalMadMan

adox wrote: »

Not sure if this is directed at me but the point I was trying to make was, not that we spent money on the wrong players but that we overpaid for most of them.

The thing is everyone new we were desperate for players as the squad wasnt good enough, ED woodward had told the whole world we had bags of cash and LVG was late to the party after the worl cup so time was against us all these factors contribute to a very poor barganing position.

Im hopefull that we will regain, some of our power in the transfer market with an already improved squad and table position also LVG seems to want his business done early and has multiple options for what he wants (hear say) but all in all it should get better.

Bar Nani season on loan out and Falcaos loan in I dont think there is any players people would argue against going and coming in terms of positions (coming in) and quality (leaving)

Backstreet Moyes

He may be as frustrating as anything but even people who dislike Nani must see how much we could do with him now.

He may be wasteful at times but he can beat players which is what we need and provides much better final delivery than Young.

Sand

Nuts102 wrote: »

He may be as frustrating as anything but even people who dislike Nani must see how much we could do with him now.

He may be wasteful at times but he can beat players which is what we need and provides much better final delivery than Young.

If we need a frustrating, wasteful player who can beat players and provide better final deliveries than Young then we have Di Maria. If Di Maria cant get his game there is no chance for Nani, and tbh there's not been a game all season where I've thought: Nani is the answer.

bucketybuck

Will I Amnt wrote: »

The only opposition to their signing I can recall was the poster Kat, and that was only because he worships the knickers off Danny Welbeck.

There was plenty of opposition, I was very upfront about saying we should not ever be signing Falcao.

From September

Vlaar for example is no world class footballer, but he would have given us something we don't currently have. Everybody loves Falcao but we would have been far better off getting a reliable defender instead of yet another striker.

I don't even care if he does, I'm completely ambivalent about his signing. If Falcao succeeds we will get goals, but if he flops Rooney or Van Persie will just play instead and we will still score goals.

From the year before!

To want Falcao, Rooney and RVP in the same squad is as stupid as wanting to sign Hart and Buffon this summer to play with De Gea. We don't need them, and we don't need Falcao.

There are other examples and no hindsight involved, I was completely right, he was a total waste of money and he was always going to be a total waste of money.

Mitch Connor

so, if DDG is signing a new contract til July 2017 - are we actually happy with this? Giving him a massive pay rise, to cover the period during which Madrid may be banned from signing players - and have us in the same situation next summer anyway.

Also, with Mendes involved, I wonder if it means that waste of space Falcao will be staying.

Hmmmm, wonder if it would have been better to move on this summer rather than delay the inevitable.

Adamocovic

Laptop was recently pinched so the radio had to do for the match and havent been able to see the forum much! Frustrating result as I honestly didnt think we were going to lose. Penalty miss was a big kick in the face! Still expect us to have top 4 though.

I know Palace will be a tough game but hopefully we see a response and Chelsea do us a favour, then top 4 guaranteed and we can call this year a success and look forward to next season.

The Moldy Gowl

Mitch Connor wrote: »

so, if DDG is signing a new contract til July 2017 - are we actually happy with this? Giving him a massive pay rise, to cover the period during which Madrid may be banned from signing players - and have us in the same situation next summer anyway.

Also, with Mendes involved, I wonder if it means that waste of space Falcao will be staying.

Hmmmm, wonder if it would have been better to move on this summer rather than delay the inevitable.

You have such a pessimistic view on everything.

Mitch Connor

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

You have such a pessimistic view on everything.

yep.

A 2 year extension (which is the rumour) starting from now is, in reality, a massive pay increase for an additional 1 year contract - which doesn't really, imo, give United any real commitment from De Gea.

Pessimistic, or pragmatic.

Would it have been better to get, for example, Lloris or Handanovic on a long term on contract this summer rather than an additional season out of DDG.

Liam O

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yep.

A 2 year extension (which is the rumour) starting from now is, in reality, a massive pay increase for an additional 1 year contract - which doesn't really, imo, give United any real commitment from De Gea.

Pessimistic, or pragmatic.

Would it have been better to get, for example, Lloris or Handanovic on a long term on contract this summer rather than an additional season out of DDG.

no, a 2 year extension adds to the year in the bank and makes it a 3 year contract. If he wants to go then Madrid will pay the market price. What you have said there is pure fantasy.

Mitch Connor

Liam O wrote: »

no, a 2 year extension adds to the year in the bank and makes it a 3 year contract. If he wants to go then Madrid will pay the market price. What you have said there is pure fantasy.

what I have read is the contract will take him to 2017. His current deal runs to 2016. Have you read somewhere that it will take him to 2018?

Liam O

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what I have read is the contract will take him to 2017. His current deal runs to 2016. Have you read somewhere that it will take him to 2018?

A 2 year extension would mean his contract would go to 2018. You yourself said in the first line of your post that's the rumour.

Backstreet Moyes

Sand wrote: »

If we need a frustrating, wasteful player who can beat players and provide better final deliveries than Young then we have Di Maria. If Di Maria cant get his game there is no chance for Nani, and tbh there's not been a game all season where I've thought: Nani is the answer.

The last 3 games have been prime examples where Nani could have made the difference. He can be wasteful but he mostly produces one or two goalscoring chances a game something we haven't been doing the last few games.

irishfeen

Pro. F wrote: »

So, given that some of us saw the problems with how Van Gaal was spending the money last summer and predicted the issues that came to pass a mile off, it's perfectly logical to have doubts about trusting him to spend the club's money sensibly this summer.

With all due respect Pro that's absolute bullshít... Van Gaal is one of very few in Europe who could be trusted with the mula. His track record in building winning teams across Europe is exceptional and almost unmatched.. are you honestly telling me you think LVG doesn't know what needs to be done?

LVG is not stupid, he will have focused on every single position on the field to see what needs changing this summer with the benefit of seeing his players play 40 odd games. Even with our three last results you could have made a case for us winning the Chelsea and West Brom... 4/5 top players and we'll be there or thereabouts.

This is LVG's swansong to European Football - United's resources in the transfer window will enable him to purchase almost any player in the world - he knows exactly what needs to be done to bring us back. He will win the Premier League with United over the next few years - what the man needs is time, money and the freedom to buy who he wants.... luckily for us/him Manchester United is among the only club in the world who will give him all three.

titan18

bucketybuck wrote: »

There was plenty of opposition, I was very upfront about saying we should not ever be signing Falcao.

From September


From the year before!


There are other examples and no hindsight involved, I was completely right, he was a total waste of money and he was always going to be a total waste of money.

I likened it to a bad Galacticos approach. We were just signing name players with no regard to how they were all fitting together. We had RVP and Rooney and then over 6-7 months, signed Mata, Di Maria and Falcao. No way in hell all those 5 were fitting together, nm the other players around them.

Rayne Wooney

Hopefully the club are above entertaining a 1 year contract extension request from a young player

2 years would mean we would get a big transfer fee, if he only wants a 1 year then let him go now and get working on a replacement, Lloris won't be at Spurs next season I don't think

Mitch Connor

Liam O wrote: »

A 2 year extension would mean his contract would go to 2018. You yourself said in the first line of your post that's the rumour.

well then, I miss-spoke. The current sotry of DDG signing a new contract has it lasting to 2017, so a two year deal from this summer

Pro. F

irishfeen wrote: »

With all due respect Pro that's absolute bullshít... Van Gaal is one of very few in Europe who could be trusted with the mula. His track record in building winning teams across Europe is exceptional and almost unmatched.. are you honestly telling me you think LVG doesn't know what needs to be done?

LVG is not stupid, he will have focused on every single position on the field to see what needs changing this summer with the benefit of seeing his players play 40 odd games. Even with our three last results you could have made a case for us winning the Chelsea and West Brom... 4/5 top players and we'll be there or thereabouts.

This is LVG's swansong to European Football - United's resources in the transfer window will enable him to purchase almost any player in the world - he knows exactly what needs to be done to bring us back. He will win the Premier League with United over the next few years - what the man needs is time, money and the freedom to buy who he wants.... luckily for us/him Manchester United is among the only club in the world who will give him all three.

Do you have the details of the transfers and player selections that he made at his previous clubs?

wiz569

Mitch Connor wrote: »

well then, I miss-spoke. The current sotry of DDG signing a new contract has it lasting to 2017, so a two year deal from this summer

Sorry m8 but thats a one year extension

MythicalMadMan

titan18 wrote: »

I likened it to a bad Galacticos approach. We were just signing name players with no regard to how they were all fitting together. We had RVP and Rooney and then over 6-7 months, signed Mata, Di Maria and Falcao. No way in hell all those 5 were fitting together, nm the other players around them.

This discussion came from someone saying would you trust Van Gall with another 150 mil not sure where you stand on that but Mata was signed before he came aboard.

We signed players that were needed as our squad needed a big overhaul the only one that could be argued against was Flacao but again was only brought in on loan. His signing didnt mean not getting other targets.

Di Maria while over payed for was a no brainer, a world class player in a position we needed, he was on the team of the year and world cup bewst 11 team. It hasnt worked out so far but we didnt sign him for the sake of it.

Out of 8 sigings in 2 years only Mata and Falcao could be arguued as not being needed at the time and Mata was more than proven his worth to us since.

Out of 8 signings only 2 I'd consider Galactico esq, Falcao and Di Maria, with Di Maria or a player like him being needed at the club.

Bar over paying (many reasons for this) our transfer policy hasnt been near as crazy as people are trying to make out.

Sure the squad lacks a certain balance and depth of quality but when you consider, Fergie and Gill leaving, the squad Fergie left, two managers in two years (one who the club couldnt get players for and one who had a very short preseason to assess the squad) on top of all the experience we lost and a fairly big exodus in numbers of players gone.

We really arent in that bad of a situation, this summer will be the one to Judge on in terms of how well the club is back on track in the transfer market

gosplan

irishfeen wrote: »

With all due respect Pro that's absolute bullshít... Van Gaal is one of very few in Europe who could be trusted with the mula. His track record in building winning teams across Europe is exceptional and almost unmatched

Between this and Gowl's comment that

'LVG is the foundation of modern football'

I think some people in this thread are getting very carried away with themselves.

LVG's fine but he spent half the last decade at AZ.

Stop reading so many nonsense tactics articles lads. He's a pretty good coach and a steady enough hand. Leave it at that.

Whatsisname

gosplan wrote: »

Between this and Gowl's comment that

'LVG is the foundation of modern football'

I think some people in this thread are getting very carried away with themselves.

LVG's fine but he spent half the last decade at AZ.

Stop reading so many nonsense tactics articles lads. He's a pretty good coach and a steady enough hand. Leave it at that.

I like the part where you purposely left out Bayern Munich and Holland.

QuantumP

Forget the word 'extension', my understanding of it is that its a new 2 year deal, which will be activated from the moment its signed. Its not like he'll remain on his current contract and wages until its fulfilled and then enter the new one.

gosplan

Whatsisname wrote: »

I like the part where you purposely left out Bayern Munich and Holland.

I like the part where you don't disagree with me.

Anyway my point is simply that he's not some galactico of a manager who single handedly invented modern football. Spending a few years being average in the Dutch league highlights that point. Winning a double with Bayern doesn't disprove it. It just says he's had success as well which I'm happy to admit.

Delboy5

"Also, with Mendes involved, I wonder if it means that waste of space Falcao will be staying."

Sounding like this us the case, falcao staying on till at least next January as part of De Gea deal....

Pro. F

gosplan wrote: »

I like the part where you don't disagree with me.

Anyway my point is simply that he's not some galactico of a manager who single handedly invented modern football. Spending a few years being average in the Dutch league highlights that point. Winning a double with Bayern doesn't disprove it. It just says he's had success as well which I'm happy to admit.

Surely his success at AZ should be described as "remarkable" rather than "average".

gosplan

Pro. F wrote: »

Surely his success at AZ should be described as "remarkable" rather than "average".

One remarkable year maybe?

bucketybuck

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

We signed players that were needed as our squad needed a big overhaul the only one that could be argued against was Flacao but again was only brought in on loan. His signing didnt mean not getting other targets.

That one year loan deal reportedly cost more than we got for young England international striker Danny Wellbeck.

Alfred Borden

gosplan wrote: »

One remarkable year maybe?

Steve Mc'Claren had one remarkable year there too

Lord TSC

De Gea signing an extension could be a "I want to make sure the club is going the right direction, so I'll give you an extra year to impress me" thing. Which is fair enough, he deserves those assurances.

Pro. F

gosplan wrote: »

One remarkable year maybe?

I don't know the full details tbh. But from looking at their league history it looks like remarkable success to me. Doesn't look like anything you could describe as "average".

irishfeen

Pro. F wrote: »

Do you have the details of the transfers and player selections that he made at his previous clubs?

1st stint at Barcelona -



2nd stint at Barcelona -



Bayern -

Will I Amnt

For the lads that had the foresight to see the problems in signing Di Maria and Falcao, who is to say that money was going to be put towards players in other positions?

He bought a left back in Luke Shaw for circa 30m, a centre back in Rojo, a centre mid in Herrera for circa 30m and Blind who can cover DM/LB.

I don't think the signing of Di Maria and the loan of Falcao would have made a difference, they were just extra additions simply because they became available.

It's easy to say he should have spent in this area or that area now after seeing the injury crisis and the players that just aren't up to it but at the time I think he added quite well to what was already there.

wiz569

QuantumP wrote: »

Forget the word 'extension', my understanding of it is that its a new 2 year deal, which will be activated from the moment its signed. Its not like he'll remain on his current contract and wages until its fulfilled and then enter the new one.

Fair point but its still only an extra year though,unfortunately,

of course providing any of it is true

Alfred Borden

Di Maria and Falcao arent the problem. Everyone though they would be top signings. But the fact he signed three left backs for around £60 million would worry me if I were a United fan.

MythicalMadMan

bucketybuck wrote: »

That one year loan deal reportedly cost more than we got for young England international striker Danny Wellbeck.

Thats the first ive heard of Falcaos loan costing more than 16 million sterling that is also crazy price for a one year loan for nearly anone. You sure?

MythicalMadMan

Raf32 wrote: »

Di Maria and Falcao arent the problem. Everyone though they would be top signings. But the fact he signed three left backs for around £60 million would worry me if I were a United fan.

Windup ya, Nice try.

Alfred Borden

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Windup ya, Nice try.

Rojo, Shaw and Blind's best positions are all at left back.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

That one year loan deal reportedly cost more than we got for young England international striker Danny Wellbeck.

It's weird how you (and everyone else) include wages in this but not on any other transfer. Diego Costa and Fabregas have probably cost Chelsea over 40m each since last Summer going by that logic. Yaya Toure has probably cost City 12 odd million in the same period. But Falcao is the only player who's wages count towards fees apparently.

Will I Amnt

Raf32 wrote: »

Rojo, Shaw and Blind's best positions are all at left back.

In your opinion.

Liam O

Raf32 wrote: »

Rojo, Shaw and Blind's best positions are all at left back.

What games has Rojo shown that he is best there as a matter of interest since you think that?

Manutd_4life

Rojo's best position is by far CB. Not even an argument worth beginning.

Alfred Borden

Liam O wrote: »

What games has Rojo shown that he is best there as a matter of interest since you think that?

From his time at Lisbon and with Argentina. He doesnt look good enough to play centre back for a top club.

Will I Amnt

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Rojo's best position is by far CB. Not even an argument worth beginning.

Oh but he played LB in the World Cup and do did Blind. Let's just disregard everything else though...

MythicalMadMan

Raf32 wrote: »

Rojo, Shaw and Blind's best positions are all at left back.

NO

Will I Amnt

Raf32 wrote: »

From his time at Lisbon and with Argentina. He doesnt look good enough to play centre back for a top club.

Did you watch him much at Lisbon?

gosplan

I don't think any of the signings was a mistake at the time of signing.

Mitch Connor

Raf32 wrote: »

From his time at Lisbon and with Argentina. He doesnt look good enough to play centre back for a top club.

You absolute chancer.

He played CB for Sporting, almost exclusively.

So how about you go somewhere else and talk about something you have a clue about, rather than go on a clear windup here.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/marcos-rojo/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/93176/verein/336

but, sure Sporting probably played him there because he is better at LB, yeah?

Mitch Connor

gosplan wrote: »

I don't think any of the signings was a mistake at the time of signing.

Felt Falcao was gamble based on the fact he was very similar to Rooney and RVP in style, and that I didn't like Rooney at no.10. But I did figure he would get enough goals to silence any real doubts about whether we should have brought him in.