Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

MythicalMadMan

He is on a windup or doesnt know what he is talking about so best to ignore him either way.

Will I Amnt

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You absolute chancer.

He played CB for Sporting, almost exclusively.

So how about you go somewhere else and talk about something you have a clue about, rather than go on a clear windup here.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/marcos-rojo/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/93176/verein/336

but, sure Sporting probably played him there because he is better at LB, yeah?

Awwh, I was waiting for him to answer if he watched him much at Lisbon before throwing it in his face...

Whatsisname

Atleast Liverpool fans put a bit of effort into their windups.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

It's weird how you (and everyone else) include wages in this but not on any other transfer. Diego Costa and Fabregas have probably cost Chelsea over 40m each since last Summer going by that logic. Yaya Toure has probably cost City 12 odd million in the same period. But Falcao is the only player who's wages count towards fees apparently.

Costa, Fabregas and Toure are players that their respective clubs actually need and also are players that the club actually owned. Against that we have Falcao, who we never needed and who after millions of pounds spent still isn't even our player.

There is a slight difference there.

gosplan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Felt Falcao was gamble based on the fact he was very similar to Rooney and RVP in style, and that I didn't like Rooney at no.10. But I did figure he would get enough goals to silence any real doubts about whether we should have brought him in.

But 20 million gambles to get back in the CL are fine when you have as much money as Utd.

Alfred Borden

Any time I saw him at Lisbon at centre half he was shaky. Looked more accomplished during the world cup and the times he played left back for Lisbon. But sure take it as a wind up if ye want, he will only be backing up Smalling and a new CB next year anyways.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

Costa, Fabregas and Toure are players that their respective clubs actually need and also are players that the club actually owned. Against that we have Falcao, who we never needed and who after millions of pounds spent still isn't even our player.

There is a slight difference there.

It still doesn't change the fact you are including wages in a player's transfer fee. Let's say Falcao cost 30m and left after a year for 24m, would people still be saying he cost 20m for a year? Doubtful.

MythicalMadMan

Raf32 wrote: »

Any time I saw him at Lisbon at centre half he was shaky. Looked more accomplished during the world cup and the times he played left back for Lisbon. But sure take it as a wind up if ye want, he will only be backing up Smalling and a new CB next year anyways.

Blah cant even follow my own advice.

Someone who plays the most of their games as a CB when signed does not become a LB just because he plays there for his country.

Daley Blind was signed after, he won player of the year in Holland playing as a defensive midfielder.

United also didnt have any left backs so we needed cover even after Shaw was signed.

You said your not on a wind up so you havent a clue what you are on about so, now you have been more than informed by everyone so have a nice day dude.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

It still doesn't change the fact you are including wages in a player's transfer fee. Let's say Falcao cost 30m and left after a year for 24m, would people still be saying he cost 20m for a year? Doubtful.

Why wouldn't I include wages? The issue is that we never needed him at all and the total cost is pertinent to that. I don't worry about Herreras wages because we needed him and had to accept the cost, but when it comes to frivolous purchases that we did not need then yes the wages are a factor to be accounted for.

Besides, we aren't talking market standard wages here, Falcao is reportedly on more than £350000 per week, the sort of wages that simply cannot be glossed over.

Will I Amnt

Raf32 wrote: »

Any time I saw him at Lisbon at centre half he was shaky. Looked more accomplished during the world cup and the times he played left back for Lisbon. But sure take it as a wind up if ye want, he will only be backing up Smalling and a new CB next year anyways.

Let's be honest here and just say that you didn't watch him play at LB for Lisbon.

niallo27

He is only giving his opinion in fairness.

Whatsisname

Andy Mitten saying Januzaj and Pereira will both go on loan next season, hopefully so. Januzaj to PSV if we get Depay would suit I think.

The Moldy Gowl

Whatsisname wrote: »

I like the part where you purposely left out Bayern Munich and Holland.

and ajax and barcelona.

Still a spoofer though. Dosent even get out of his chair when the camera pans to him, just cashing his pay cheques with ashley young

MythicalMadMan

bucketybuck wrote: »

That one year loan deal reportedly cost more than we got for young England international striker Danny Wellbeck.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why wouldn't I include wages? The issue is that we never needed him at all and the total cost is pertinent to that. I don't worry about Herreras wages because we needed him and had to accept the cost, but when it comes to frivolous purchases that we did not need then yes the wages are a factor to be accounted for.

Besides, we aren't talking market standard wages here, Falcao is reportedly on more than £350000 per week, the sort of wages that simply cannot be glossed over.

You cant use wages as a stick to beat a player with just cause you feel like doing so, you either use it for all or for none.

Your also saying he cost 16+ and 350,000 a week the highest you can possibly come up with in the most expensive currency as if it adds validation to your arguement when you actually have no proof.

And what is your point exactly, we signed Flacao if we didnt we would have a few extra Million in the bank we took a chance on getting a world class striker into the club for a relatively low price if you compare the cost to signing him.

It didnt work out it didnt cost us another player in another position

MythicalMadMan

niallo27 wrote: »

He is only giving his opinion in fairness.

His opinion was built upon a false premise, we were only educating him in fairness

Liam O

£350,000 per week is more than Messi or Ronaldo is on

Will I Amnt

niallo27 wrote: »

He is only giving his opinion in fairness.

He said van Gaal spent £60m on 3 left backs. That's bullsh*t and it will be called out as such.

bucketybuck

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

You cant use wages as a stick to beat a player with just cause you feel like doing so, you either use it for all or for none.

Your also saying he cost 16+ and 350,000 a week the highest you can possibly come up with in the most expensive currency as if it adds validation to your arguement when you actually have no proof.

And what is your point exactly, we signed Flacao if we didnt we would have a few extra Million in the bank we took a chance on getting a world class striker into the club for a relatively low price if you compare the cost to signing him.

It didnt work out it didnt cost us another player in another position

Actually the reports I googled said his wage is £375000+, but they were all the papers so I didn't bother quoting.

My point is simple, he was a risk we did not even need to bother taking and it was a waste of money start to finish. Taking a chance on a player we needed wouldn't have drawn comment, taking a chance on another striker was a different matter.

Eta: Actually, they say £265000. I blame my eyesight. Luckily it doesn't change my point one iota.

homerjay2005

If Ddg is extending his contract by two years, then it has to be a 2018 end date, 2017 is a one year extention no matter what way people want to swing it.

It also means he is defo leaving next summer.

MythicalMadMan

bucketybuck wrote: »

Actually the reports I googled said his wage is £375000+, but they were all the papers so I didn't bother quoting.

My point is simple, he was a risk we did not even need to bother taking and it was a waste of money start to finish. Taking a chance on a player we needed wouldn't have drawn comment, taking a chance on another striker was a different matter.

Actaully, they say £265000. I blame my eyesight. Luckily it doesn't change my point one iota.

I can accept the club taking a small risk of a few million trying to bring in a world class player who could Improve the first 11, find is strange anyone having a problem with it if im being honest.

If his signing in any way affected the squad I could see your point but when it soley affects the Balance sheet in whats really a minimal way in the grand scheme of things I dont see the problem.

gosplan

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

and ajax and barcelona.

Still a spoofer though. Dosent even get out of his chair when the camera pans to him, just cashing his pay cheques with ashley young

I specifically said last decade. But anyway, give us your argument rather than throwing out some sarcasm.

And don't turn this into a strawman. I say he's a good manager but one of many pretty good managers with a CV including successful years and mediocre years. All in all though a strong choice for Utd right now.

You say he's 'the foundation of modern football'.

Please enlighten.

Nalz

gosplan wrote: »

You say he's 'the foundation of modern football'.

Please enlighten.

There's a gif going around that "proves" this

MythicalMadMan

gosplan wrote: »

. I say he's a good manager but one of many pretty good managers with a CV including successful years and mediocre years. All in all though a strong choice for Utd right now.


Please enlighten.

You aske for no strawman while moving the goalposts on what you said yourself.

"LVG's fine"

"Anyway my point is simply that he's not some galactico of a manager"

"average"

You have talked down or ignored many of his achievements as a manager. Which doesnt point towards you thinking much about him as a manager.

The fact is he is in the top percentile of managers and you will not be able to show me many managers with a better CV than his in the whole world.

I'd love to see your list of many just for ****s and giggles I could do with cheering up.

gosplan

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

You aske for no strawman while moving the goalposts on what you said yourself.

"LVG's fine"

"Anyway my point is simply that he's not some galactico of a manager"

"average"

You have talked down or ignored many of his achievements as a manager. Which doesnt point towards you thinking much about him as a manager.

The fact is he is in the top percentile of managers and you will not be able to show me many managers with a better CV than his in the whole world.

I'd love to see your list of many just for ****s and giggles I could do with cheering up.

He's fine for Utd right now. Yes I think that.

He's not some galactico of a manager. Yes that too.

He's had average seasons, I never called him average.

Yes he is in the top percentile. That's blindingly obvious.

Out of curiosity do you see the points I'm disagreeing with? What do you think of them?

Do you think he's the cornerstone of modern football and better than anyone at building a team?

MythicalMadMan

gosplan wrote: »

He's fine for Utd right now. Yes I think that.

He's not some galactico of a manager. Yes that too.

He's had average seasons, I never called him average.

Yes he is in the top percentile. That's blindingly obvious.

Out of curiosity do you see the points I'm disagreeing with? What do you think of them?

Do you think he's the cornerstone of modern football and better than anyone at building a team?

Ah here all my mini quotes you have now put into different sentences than I originally took them from, Goal posts moved again.

What is a Galactico manager, surely someone who is in the top percentile is either one of these or they dont exist.

My main Gripe was you seemed to belittle LVGs accomplishments and were talking him down as a manager.

The corner stone thing, I havent put any thought into ever so I cant really comment.

gosplan

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Ah here all my mini quotes you have now put into different sentences than I originally took them from, Goal posts moved again.

What is a Galactico manager, surely someone who is in the top percentile is either one of these or they dont exist.

My main Gripe was you seemed to belittle LVGs accomplishments and were talking him down as a manager.

The corner stone thing, I havent put any thought into ever so I cant really comment.

I've no idea what you mean about the quotes. I was just pointing out that I agree with them and they hold up.

I am not knocking LVG as a manager.

He's an excellent choice for many reasons.

1: absolutely his own man. He is a strong character which is ideal for a big club going through a wobble

2: able to handle big players. Will tell anyone to fcuk off I'd imagine if they weren't towing the line

3: will produce consistant results. I can't see how Utd will finish below top four with LVG and a lot of money

All that said, I don't see anything that convinces me he'll best an infinitely resourced Jose. I also don't really see anything that City won't be able to match by spending a fair bit.

I've noticed a tone in here recently that has elevated him to a managerial version of C.Ronaldo and was just saying that this might be overdoing it a bit.

He is a top manager but if you are a club with infinite resources then I think you could find an equilavent.

That's all.

IMO Utd should stick with him until a Guardolia or Jose becomes available. You'd probably want to see Klopp or Simione do it somewhere else before giving it to them thiugh

DARK-KNIGHT

Lads to be fair van gaal is a great manager without a doubt one of the very best

Pro. F

irishfeen wrote: »

<list of transfers>

Cool, I've seen that much myself. And what about his team selections; the players he selected and those he ignored; how did each transfer work out; how would you rate each transfer in or out? And what evidence do you have that he was in full charge of any or all of those transfer windows? What scouts and assistants was he working with, how good were they and are they still on his staff? And why are you only including his stints at Barca and Bayern? What about his time at Ajax and AZ?

The reason I am asking for this level of detail is because that is what you need to know before you can make such definitive claims about his track record of building teams.

Myself, I wouldn't be able to answer half of the questions I listed above, and I'm not going to take the word of fans and journalists that I don't know and trust extremely well. Even at United (who I have read about and discussed every day during his tenure) it's still not all completely clear; it is possible that he is not fully in charge of transfers. And even though it seems obvious to me that the last summer transfer window was conducted poorly, a lot of fans somehow think it was a good one.

What I am getting at is that I'm not interested in what his past transfer record is supposed to have been like. You and I don't have enough information to form proper opinions on that question. Imperfect as the information is, we have a much clearer picture of what has gone on with his transfers and team selections at United than at his previous clubs. So I'm going to judge him on that. I do still have a lot of respect for his managerial record - that's why I wasn't calling for his head by January - but not so much that I'm going to start blindly believing that he is good at every aspect of football management.

adox

So we should be cheering for Hull tonight really...

Hococop

adox wrote: »

So we should be cheering for Hull tonight really...

Yes to have even a tiny chance of taking a top 3 spot and to see hull and Bruce stay up

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

For the lads that had the foresight to see the problems in signing Di Maria and Falcao, who is to say that money was going to be put towards players in other positions?

He bought a left back in Luke Shaw for circa 30m, a centre back in Rojo, a centre mid in Herrera for circa 30m and Blind who can cover DM/LB.

I don't think the signing of Di Maria and the loan of Falcao would have made a difference, they were just extra additions simply because they became available.

Yeah, I've said before that all this talk is with the assumption that LVG is fully in charge of transfers. If he's not then we could be fùcked.

Whatever the combination of LVG and owners it was that called the shots last summer, I'd say they didn't do a great job on transfers and LVG hasn't done a great job on picking the team during the season.

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It's easy to say he should have spent in this area or that area now after seeing the injury crisis and the players that just aren't up to it but at the time I think he added quite well to what was already there.

At the time you thought that he added quite well to what was already there, but at the time others did not agree. Since we said as much at the time, it is not a case of only using hindsight now. It's a case of having been right in what we were saying.

Mikeyt086

Hococop wrote: »

Yes to have even a tiny chance of taking a top 3 spot and to see hull and Bruce stay up

I don't think enough people realise how important it is to our success that Steve Bruce continues to manage in the Premier League.

RobertKK

Aymeric Laporte now has Jorge Mendes representing him, when Ed and Jorge are exchanging family pictures, maybe Ed will hand over a big fee too.
Rumours continue that United are very interested in signing him.

adox

Game over already at the KC stadium.

Whatsisname

Oh how I wish we went for Sanchez back in the summer.

Will I Amnt

Pro. F wrote: »

At the time you thought that he added quite well to what was already there, but at the time others did not agree. Since we said as much at the time, it is not a case of only using hindsight now. It's a case of having been right in what we were saying.

What other positions would you have added to, considering he added to CB, LB, CM, Winger and Striker?
A lot of us thought Rafael was good enough for RB, maybe LvG did too until he got there. Maybe he thought Smalling, Evans, Jones and Rojo were better than they have been and going to be available more.
Carrick, Herrera and Blind aren't terrible options in midfield.

It's his first season as manager of the club, Giggs was there to give him the lowdown on the players, maybe he could have helped shift on a few more? Maybe the players just aren't as good as people thought, manager and staff included.

A lot of maybes in there but we just don't know the full story. There won't be as much leeway next season, no more excuses, we will see who gets moved on this Summer...

dubmick

So if we qualify for the CL we'll have to face a play off first. So frustrating considering a few weeks ago I thought we could get 2nd place.

The Moldy Gowl

Can someone please explain all this tinfoil hattery about mendes?

From what I gather they are just legal representatives for a player, because of the legal wording and complexities of the contracts?
They are effectively a hiring agency, they just deal with the personal side of the deal and clubs deal with each other for a fee after the player has said ya sure I would be interested in moving club.

This whole conspiracy about mendes forcing players for move to clubs is weird? Like this morning someone posted that mendes is making falcao stay here?


Does anyone have any info as to what an agent does, outside of my assumption of a glorified hiring agency.
Like I could sign up with an agency tomorrow and let them put my cv out there for jobs.

homerjay2005

How much can we expect to get for Di Maria if we sell him?

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

How much can we expect to get for Di Maria if we sell him?

45m was the figure being touted. Would be shocked if it happened though.

Whatsisname

Lord TSC wrote: »

45m was the figure being touted. Would be shocked if it happened though.

In a hypothetically parallel universe we sold him for 45m, I wouldn't say no to some of that being thrown at Dortmund for Reus, along with other funds available for Gundogan and Hummels.

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

45m was the figure being touted. Would be shocked if it happened though.

Why would you be shocked by something that's getting more and more likely every week?

It may not happen, but its definately possible. As it stands, his future is unclear to say the least, he just doesn't look like his heart is in it.

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Why would you be shocked by something that's getting more and more likely every week?

I'd be surprised if the club decided to give up on it's record signing after one season. Sure, it's possible, but I feel it's not massively likely. The media love to push a story of a flop, love to push stories of disrest at United.

MythicalMadMan

adox wrote: »

Game over already at the KC stadium.

Colonel Sanders is missing a trick not sponsoring this lot, he could easilt slip in another letter to the stadium name and people wouldnt even notice

irishfeen

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd be surprised if the club decided to give up on it's record signing after one season. Sure, it's possible, but I feel it's not massively likely. The media love to push a story of a flop, love to push stories of disrest at United.

I think its an absolute certainty that he will start next season at the club...

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd be surprised if the club decided to give up on it's record signing after one season. Sure, it's possible, but I feel it's not massively likely. The media love to push a story of a flop, love to push stories of disrest at United.

It makes sense to sell for many reasons, esp if it meant signing Bale for instance-also we wouldn't lose that much on him compared to potential further loses if he had another bad season and we had to sell in summer 2016.

Biggest think also is the fact that he is on ~£1million a month, serious cash to be paying a player who is right now playing the levels of a player who looks like he doesn't give two f*cks about the club.
of course I hope he stays, I think he can regain form and second season normally sees foreign players settle in better but at the moment it's not looking good for him.

Selling now could save the club £30m in lost wages and transfer fees

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

What other positions would you have added to, considering he added to CB, LB, CM, Winger and Striker?
A lot of us thought Rafael was good enough for RB, maybe LvG did too until he got there. Maybe he thought Smalling, Evans, Jones and Rojo were better than they have been and going to be available more.
Carrick, Herrera and Blind aren't terrible options in midfield.

It's his first season as manager of the club, Giggs was there to give him the lowdown on the players, maybe he could have helped shift on a few more? Maybe the players just aren't as good as people thought, manager and staff included.

A lot of maybes in there but we just don't know the full story. There won't be as much leeway next season, no more excuses, we will see who gets moved on this Summer...

If LVG thought that Smalling, Jones, Evans, Rojo and Rafael were all better than they really are then that is five players who he misjudged after having an entire preseason to work with them. If that's the case then I would call that a very poor performance from the manager and I don't see how you could describe it as anything different. From what I remember I was happy to try those selection of CBs (injury concerns and all) if we were going to play a back four, but Van Gaal spent a lot of time trying to get a back three wing-back formation going, which I said we probably wouldn't have enough depth for.

Carrick, Blind, Herrera and Fellaini is an extremely poor selection if you are going to play a formation with three central midfielders.

With regards to what I would have done differently, I would have picked a formation that worked with the players we had and then bought accordingly. What Van Gaal did was dither between several different formations, not get any one that worked properly, and then ended up not having enough depth/quality for any one formation in particular.

irishfeen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

It makes sense to sell for many reasons, esp if it meant signing Bale for instance-also we wouldn't lose that much on him compared to potential further loses if he had another bad season and we had to sell in summer 2016.

Biggest think also is the fact that he is on ~£1million a month, serious cash to be paying a player who is right now playing the levels of a player who looks like he doesn't give two f*cks about the club.
of course I hope he stays, I think he can regain form and second season normally sees foreign players settle in better but at the moment it's not looking good for him.

Selling now could save the club £30m in lost wages and transfer fees

But it doesn't make any sense if we get the Di Maria of Real in his prime... he deserves a chance next season when hopefully we have added a bit of quality around him... Remember the CL final where he was fantastic.

homerjay2005

irishfeen wrote: »

I think its an absolute certainty that he will start next season at the club...

I'll put it to you this way, if any club offers a decent value for him, he is gone.

whether or not another club can afford that value and his obscene wages is another question.

irishfeen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

I'll put it to you this way, if any club offers a decent value for him, he is gone.

whether or not another club can afford that value and his obscene wages is another question.

I think FFP means this is highly unlikely unless we sell cheap... that won't happen this summer - I guarantee you that.