Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Liam O

TheDoc wrote: »

There is no way that deal could possibly go through at the originally agreed price.

If United agreed last Summer to pay it then it could do I'd say. There may be no way out. Some 40m contracts are hard to get out off I'd say.

greendom

Liam O wrote: »

Monaco aren't going to take him back and risk having to pay his wages for another year, paying 43m would be hilariously stupid, worst transfer ever territory. I'd still take him for circa 20m though and give him a nice long Summer off.

will he not be going to the Copa America ?

Pro. F

irishfeen wrote: »

I never said Moyes was doing an "acceptable job" at all so don't put words in my mouth - I did though call out the desire of some of the players last year ... Even take ex-United players like Keane, Scholes etc. who ate the players alive over their attitude and desire... The easy option was to roll over and blame Moyes.

If we get top 4 I thinks it's a brilliant season given what happened last year, next year I fully expect us to compete for the title - it's all about building blocks from here on in... 4th place is a massive step in the re-building of the first team and squad.

I think we are still about 5 first team players away from a title winning team... That's an awful lot! - but I expect 2/3 of them coming in over the next few weeks.

You thought Moyes should be given until the next Christmas at least so by definition you must have found his performance acceptable given the circumstances.

Liam O

greendom wrote: »

will he not be going to the Copa America ?

Ugh, forgot about that So that's Rojo, Valencia and ADM minimum missing some preseason and Falcao too if he joins.

MagicIRL

Nothing surprises me when it comes to Manchester United and transfers so I'll believe it when I see it.

ericzeking

Pro. F wrote: »

You thought Moyes should be given until the next Christmas at least so by definition you must have found his performance acceptable given the circumstances.

This is not neccessarily true.

Look at Fellaini, for example, his performances were 'not acceptable' last season but now he has come good and has realised a lot of his ability in a United shirt. Plenty wanted him gone but many also believed he would come good and he has.

If Moyes had got rid of the old guard that LVG got rid of in his second summer (it would have been hard for him to do it first time round) then, with similar investment, there is every chance he could be having a similar season to LVG. Herrerra was a Moyes signing, Shaw too, arguably... lots of others were mentioned.
He was trying to do a job with players, and experienced influential ones at that, who wouldn't play for him.

Just because one thinks that given his own team Moyes might have come good in the second season does not mean that the results of his first season were wholly acceptable for United as a club, it's about a long term view.

Pro. F

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

...I don't think it's anything to be getting hysterical about.

A few additions, a few tweaks and a good pre-season with the shopping done early and I'll be very excited about next year.

Nobody is getting hysterical. It's a simple criticism - last summer's transfers and building of the team were poor.

I've been saying that we're only a few players away from getting the team sorted, but when you factor in the lack of depth we have in some positions I realise that's not the case now. Assuming nobody important is sold, Nani returns, Januzaj goes on loan and we stick with the three CM 433 I think we'll need: three CMs, CB, RB and third choice CF. At least one of the central midfielders would need to be first choice quality, two if you want the team to be properly good. The RB would have to be starting quality but the CB could maybe just be a back-up.

That is a lot of work to be left yet to do on a squad considering where we started from and the money spent last summer.

Mitch Connor

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Good news chaps (don;t feel the need to click the link, I did it so you don't have to)

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/574980/Man-Utd-Chelsea-Liverpool-Radamel-Falcao-Deal

Hmmm, DDG seemingly ready to sign a new (short term) contract and United are apparently willing to sign Falcao. Hmmmm.

43million on Falcao, just (surely it can be the only reason) to keep Mendes sweet and DDG for an extra season is INSANE.

Let both go and move on.

The Moldy Gowl

The express claims, then says what said in a meeting?
So it was said or not?

Load of spoof

The Moldy Gowl

Let both go Mitch? Based on paper talk and the tin foil haterry surrounding this evil empire of mendes?

sky88

Ive been one of Falcaos biggest defenders but it would be insane to pay that kind of money for him.

ericzeking

I wouldn't have a problem with buying Falcao. I think there is every chance of him coming good, and we probably need a striker... I'd prefer him as an option to RVP anyway.

I'll let the money side of it to the money men, I imagine there would be all sorts of clauses and conundrums and E43m isn't all that mad anymore anyway, middle of the road players go for 20-30 million on a regular basis.

Liam O

I've just realised, it's a player like Kagawa who United needed on Saturday and I'm depressed again

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

I've just realised, it's a player like Kagawa who United needed on Saturday and I'm depressed again

Can't say I agree with this. Mata does the same thing only better.
We needed pure pace to stretch the defence.

Even though Di Maria is lacking in confidence the only way to get it back is to let him play from the start and not thrown on when things go wrong.

His final ball was shocking on Saturday but he at least tried to run at the full backs. We ended up peppering the goal toward the end of the game as West Brom dropped deeper and deeper.

He also pulled of an excellent shot that the keeper had to save.

ericzeking

Liam O wrote: »

I've just realised, it's a player like Kagawa who United needed on Saturday and I'm depressed again

The system we finally seem to have setteld on with all the possession based play was made for Matagawa...
Matagawa, Herrerra and Young behind Rooney with Fellaini as the plan B from the bench.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

Nobody is getting hysterical. It's a simple criticism - last summer's transfers and building of the team were poor.

I knew even as I was typing the word hysterical that it was a poor choice, but my coffee starved brain wasn't interested in scanning for an alternative.

TheDoc

Liam O wrote: »

I've just realised, it's a player like Kagawa who United needed on Saturday and I'm depressed again

Would have been on the bench

I think the WB game was just one of those games. There was enough chances that 8/10 we would have scored at least two excluding the penalty, and had a relatively comfortable win.

Saw and heard a lot of talk, as well by Yorke and Henry during the analysis about the wide players not beating their men and getting crosses into the box etc. I think that was over simplifying it. There was occasions where wide players, be it wingers or full backs did break through, or occasions where young or Mata faced up to a WB player, but defending with two banks of four, meant that it was mostly 2v1, or when the FB did overlap, 2v2 and a tight space.

There was a portion where we moved the ball relatively quickly from left to right, Herrera being at the centre of that flow, but the problem was in front of him. Van Persie, then Fellaini, Mata and young, not moving across the line to prod holes, or try one, twos or even layoffs.

Sometimes when you come up against that, best bet is frontman laying off a ball for a strike. Fellaini did it once or twice, but there seemed to be a reluctance to shoot from distance. With things that compact, and at times WB standing of men at the edge of the box, someone just needs to take a pop.

The link between midfield and up front is most obvious a problem when Rooney is not there. So many times Van Persie just standing there looking for it into feet, back to goal, inside the 18 yard box. With things that tight he has to be smarted to move wider or across the line to create little gaps, not fill them.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Can't say I agree with this. Mata does the same thing only better.
We needed pure pace to stretch the defence.

What use pure pace when the other team is sitting so deep?

What was needed was a few risk takers and a few players able to give an accurate final ball. Valencia's ankle smasher routine is worse than useless in a game like that, and Rooneys spread it wide routine more useless again.

What we needed was somebody who could actually create a chance from very little space. The likes of Nani for example, even if half his dribbles or shots don't come off it would still have been the right approach to unlocking the packed defense.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

What use pure pace when the other team is sitting so deep?

What was needed was a few risk takers and a few players able to give an accurate final ball. Valencia's ankle smasher routine is worse than useless in a game like that, and Rooneys spread it wide routine more useless again.

What we needed was somebody who could actually create a chance from very little space. The likes of Nani for example, even if half his dribbles or shots don't come off it would still have been the right approach to unlocking the packed defense.

Our attacks were nearly all in front of the defence before Di Maria came on.
We were too rigid and trying to pass it into the box. Easy to defend against and West Brom were allowed to stay compact.

Pace on the wings stretches the defence simple as

Di Maria did take risks as I mentioned he took the shot on and tried to run at the fullbacks

bangkok

we really need Chelsea to do us a huge favour this sunday and hopefully we can beat palace and put 4th spot to bed now. Chelsea players are off until Wednesday probably drinking the **** out of it right now, so might be more difficult than expected.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Can't say I agree with this. Mata does the same thing only better.
We needed pure pace to stretch the defence.

Even though Di Maria is lacking in confidence the only way to get it back is to let him play from the start and not thrown on when things go wrong.

His final ball was shocking on Saturday but he at least tried to run at the full backs. We ended up peppering the goal toward the end of the game as West Brom dropped deeper and deeper.

He also pulled of an excellent shot that the keeper had to save.

I don't see how pace can stretch a team that are sitting deep with two banks defending. It wasn't a late development after WB scored, they did it the entire game. There was a few occasions where the game did get stretched in the second half, and the camera would pan to Pulis screaming for lads to drop and tighten up.

If this is going to be the new thing, which I think will be, where we dominate possesion, it will force teams to sit deep off us, and very much adopt the " try your best" mentality.

I could be wide of the mark, but there are very few teams in world football that can happily cope with a team who "park the bus" for 90 minutes. And it's mostly through intricate football centrally, or using a winger to form 2v1 situations to get a cross in or angled shot.

Something United havn't really been good at, or prolific at, for as long as I can remember. On the occasions this happened to us, we had wingers who would get wide or hit the byline and whip in crosses for strikers to get onto.

Until it gets sorted out, there will plenty of pedestrian possesion in front of the opposing team, moving side to side, with the hope of a gap for a through ball.

Palace is more of a worry then West Brom, as not only can they operate compact and disciplined, they have genuine threats out wide who can really damage you on the break.

I'd imagine the game against Palace is going to be the same as it was against West Brom, and if we don't score,probably atleast two, we are in trouble.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Our attacks were nearly all in front of the defence before Di Maria came on.
We were too rigid and trying to pass it into the box. Easy to defend against and West Brom were allowed to stay compact.

Pace on the wings stretches the defence simple as

Di Maria did take risks as I mentioned he took the shot on and tried to run at the fullbacks

As poor as Di Maria has been, I'd lineup this weekend with Di Maria, Herrera and Fellaini in CM(if Carrick is fit then in for Fellaini).

Obviously he is in turgid form, confidence shot, but I don' think coming on with 30 mins to go with your team 1-0 down to West Brom helps the situation. I'd start him, and pray to **** that something happens for him. Fellaini would be a stronger impact sub then Di Maria.

Shoe horning Rooney into CM with Di Maria there, is terrible imo, and we lose what he has done so well since going back up front. It's bad enough Herrera being pulled out of the right hand side channel to play deep, but having Rooney in there is haphazard.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't see how pace can stretch a team that are sitting deep with two banks defending. It wasn't a late development after WB scored, they did it the entire game. There was a few occasions where the game did get stretched in the second half, and the camera would pan to Pulis screaming for lads to drop and tighten up.

If this is going to be the new thing, which I think will be, where we dominate possesion, it will force teams to sit deep off us, and very much adopt the " try your best" mentality.

I could be wide of the mark, but there are very few teams in world football that can happily cope with a team who "park the bus" for 90 minutes. And it's mostly through intricate football centrally, or using a winger to form 2v1 situations to get a cross in or angled shot.

Something United havn't really been good at, or prolific at, for as long as I can remember. On the occasions this happened to us, we had wingers who would get wide or hit the byline and whip in crosses for strikers to get onto.

Until it gets sorted out, there will plenty of pedestrian possesion in front of the opposing team, moving side to side, with the hope of a gap for a through ball.

Palace is more of a worry then West Brom, as not only can they operate compact and disciplined, they have genuine threats out wide who can really damage you on the break.

I'd imagine the game against Palace is going to be the same as it was against West Brom, and if we don't score,probably atleast two, we are in trouble.

If you review the last 20 minutes of the game there was a lot more action on the wings and because of this we were unlucky not to equalise
And the defensive line was not as compact / was much more stretched.
This is the point I'm trying to make

Can't be coincidental this was the same time Di Maria came onto the pitch

My point about Di Maria starting at he would have taken a risk early on

Nobody else was willing to take the Shot on

Rooney / Mata / Herrera were dithering with the ball outside the box and just outright indecision by most of our attacking players

MagicIRL

You need pace on the wings but a prying number ten to keep the defence guessing. If you only have pace then all you're offering is that cross threat. Unfortunately, Fellaini doesn't offer that threat at 10 whereas Di Maria/Mata can.

MagicIRL

MagicIRL wrote: »

You need pace on the wings but a prying number ten to keep the defence guessing. If you only have pace then all you're offering is that cross threat. Unfortunately, Fellaini doesn't offer that threat at 10 whereas Di Maria/Mata can.

Another reason why Rooney needs to stay up top

Fellani looks to work well when Carrick is in the side, but again since the Chelsea game managers looking to man-mark him with players of equal height / strength where possible

He would have been better as an impact sub rather than the other way around and having Di Maria on the bench IMO

slingerz

bangkok wrote: »

we really need Chelsea to do us a huge favour this sunday and hopefully we can beat palace and put 4th spot to bed now. Chelsea players are off until Wednesday probably drinking the **** out of it right now, so might be more difficult than expected.

TBH I cannot see United not getting 4th spot, Liverpool are playing horrific stuff and would be more worried had they picked up more points against Hull or West Brom but they even struggled at Anfield against QPR.

i could see them beating Chelsea but losing the week after its what they do

TheDoc

slingerz wrote: »

TBH I cannot see United not getting 4th spot, Liverpool are playing horrific stuff and would be more worried had they picked up more points against Hull or West Brom but they even struggled at Anfield against QPR.

i could see them beating Chelsea but losing the week after its what they do

I think Rodgers only mentioned last few days they will challenge for the title next season?

Typically when Rodgers makes an over zealous/ambitious comment about Liverpool they lose their next fixture

thelad95

Has anybody here voted for player of the year? Might be a tad controversial but I voted for Fellaini. I think Mata will probably get it though.

Vic Vinegar

thelad95 wrote: »

Has anybody here voted for player of the year? Might be a tad controversial but I voted for Fellaini. I think Mata will probably get it though.

Mata over De Gea? crazy.

bangkok

thelad95 wrote: »

Has anybody here voted for player of the year? Might be a tad controversial but I voted for Fellaini. I think Mata will probably get it though.

to be honest, if you voted anyone else over de Gea it is stupid imo.

Mars Bar

Fellaini received the ball in the box with his back to the goal a few times. We were getting it in to the right place we just weren't getting it to the right player. I think if it was Mata in there, he would have had quicker feet and WBA players weren't going to be jostling with him like they were with Fellaini.

Will I Amnt

Pro. F wrote: »

During the preseason the manager has endless video to watch; he trains the players every day; travels with them; talks to them and gets to watch them play games. If after all that LVG made an incorrect judgement on five of his defenders then he did a poor job.

I wouldn't be expecting a new manager to get his squad sorted in one window. But I would expect a new manager to have a formation chosen and transfer strategy that builds towards it before the summer window closes.

As I said, this is all with the assumption that LVG was in charge of transfers. And if he wasn't then my criticisms are for whoever was calling the shots. But that's not really relevant anyway, because what I'm disagreeing with are the claims that our transfers last summer were good and that nobody could have seen the problems with the make-up of the squad that was put together.

Sorry, I missed this yesterday. My original point was to do with the signing of Di Maria and taking Falcao on loan.
We don't know if those signings directly prevented strengthening other areas so to say you could foresee a problem with those additions doesn't really have a solid basis.

Pro. F

Stretching a defence with pace means getting them to drop deep. When the defence are already as deep as they can go you can't stretch them any more. So no, we weren't short of pace on Saturday. The games where we'll find out if the team is lacking pace are the ones against teams that press high.

Cantona's Collars

TheDoc wrote: »

I think Rodgers only mentioned last few days they will challenge for the title next season?

Typically when Rodgers makes an over zealous/ambitious comment about Liverpool they lose their next fixture

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Sorry, I missed this yesterday. My original point was to do with the signing of Di Maria and taking Falcao on loan.
We don't know if those signings directly prevented strengthening other areas so to say you could foresee a problem with those additions doesn't really have a solid basis.

If you want to hypothesise that LVG wasn't in charge of transfers and so it wasn't his fault then fine, but it doesn't change the fact that we bought and sold poorly last summer, whoever was really in charge.

The squad we put together by the end of the summer window had serious problems that some of us pointed out at the time. So it's not just hindsight when somebody says it again now.

Will I Amnt

Pro. F wrote: »

If you want to hypothesise that LVG wasn't in charge of transfers and so it wasn't his fault then fine, but it doesn't change the fact that we bought and sold poorly last summer, whoever was really in charge.

The squad we put together by the end of the summer window had serious problems that some of us pointed out at the time. So it's not just hindsight when somebody says it again now.

Did you say that the signing of Di Maria and Falcao was a mistake? Or did you say that not signing other players was a mistake? Because these are 2 different things.

Pro. F

ericzeking wrote: »

This is not neccessarily true.

Look at Fellaini, for example, his performances were 'not acceptable' last season but now he has come good and has realised a lot of his ability in a United shirt. Plenty wanted him gone but many also believed he would come good and he has.

I suppose it comes down to how you use the word. Irishfeen was willing to accept the job Moyes as manager and still wanted to give him another transfer window and half season in charge by the time the Glazers put an end to the disaster.

ericzeking wrote: »

If Moyes had got rid of the old guard that LVG got rid of in his second summer (it would have been hard for him to do it first time round) then, with similar investment, there is every chance he could be having a similar season to LVG. Herrerra was a Moyes signing, Shaw too, arguably... lots of others were mentioned.
He was trying to do a job with players, and experienced influential ones at that, who wouldn't play for him.

Just because one thinks that given his own team Moyes might have come good in the second season does not mean that the results of his first season were wholly acceptable for United as a club, it's about a long term view.

If Moyes was a better manager and had done a better job things might have gone better. I agree. Thankfully he's gone now and we'll never have to watch his puke football at the club again.

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Did you say that the signing of Di Maria and Falcao was a mistake? Or did you say that not signing other players was a mistake? Because these are 2 different things.

I said signing Falcao was a mistake. Iirc I said I wouldn't have paid the money for Di Maria if it was my choice, but I wasn't completely against it. And I said failing to establish a functional formation and buying the players to fit it before the window closed was a mistake.

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

I think Rodgers only mentioned last few days they will challenge for the title next season?

Did this really happen? Because it sounds like a parody.

Will I Amnt

Pro. F wrote: »

I said signing Falcao was a mistake. Iirc I said I wouldn't have paid the money for Di Maria if it was my choice, but I wasn't completely against it. And I said failing to establish a functional formation and buying the players to fit it before the window closed was a mistake.

Falcao did turn out to be a mistake, only because he flopped badly. If Falcao had performed this season like he did before his move we wouldn't be having this conversation, he was bought as a lethal goalscorer and we moved on a not so lethal goalscorer, nothing much wrong with the thinking there IMO.

Cantona's Collars

Pro. F wrote: »

I said signing Falcao was a mistake. Iirc I said I wouldn't have paid the money for Di Maria if it was my choice, but I wasn't completely against it. And I said failing to establish a functional formation and buying the players to fit it before the window closed was a mistake.

It's like debating the RVP signing,had anyone said the season before he signed that we'd be taking him from Arsenal and he'd help us win the league they'd be laughed at.

Hindsight is great,Falcao & Di Maria were players we wouldn't have imagined coming to the club previously,only FIFA fanboys would have them in their teams.We signed them and one didn't work out,the other started well but has seen a catastrophic drop in form,that can be worked on.Remember we were all sick of hearing "no value in the market" & the moneyball tactics of using young signings as an investment with future sell on values being the main factor in them being bought,now we are shopping in Harrods rather than Aldi,people are still not happy.

gosplan

Interesting point on F365

United have gained 2.06 points per game against bottom-half teams this season, putting them fifth (and behind Southampton) in that regard. Since 2007, United have never dropped below 2.35 ppg. Under David Moyes and Ryan Giggs last season, United took 2.5ppg. That's a difference of nine points over the course of a campaign from last year to this.

So the amazing performances against City, Liverpool etc are brought back a bit by the performances against the league's minnows.

To be honest, I think that's OK. The one thing that sets the Premiership apart, for me, is the approach of the lesser teams. The culture is to work your socks off and let the big guys know they're in a game. I think in other countries the culture might be 'who cares who they are, we'll play our game and show them our football' ... Barca 6 - Random team 0

I'm not knocking any league or anything, just saying that when it comes to playing the bottom half of the premiership, tactical approach might not be as important as ruthless determination. There's no ego about attacking football. I mean take West Brom the other day - approaching the whole game in two banks of 4 and five with 1 forward is fine. Who wants shots on target anyway?

A lot of good European tactical managers have this problem at first though. You'd imagine that LVG will be able to put it right.

bucketybuck

zerks wrote: »

Hindsight is great

:rolleyes:

Plenty of us said long before he signed that we did not need him and he would be a waste of money, I showed quotes yesterday to back this up and still people trot out the "hindsight" rubbish.

Heres another one:

To want Falcao, Rooney and RVP in the same squad is as stupid as wanting to sign Hart and Buffon this summer to play with De Gea. We don't need them, and we don't need Falcao.

Falcao is world class. But he won't increase the team goals scored by much more than it already is, because we already have guys sticking ball in the net. If the interest in Falcao is real then it is incredibly poor management with regards to transfer policy

Its not even a matter of the signing not working out, because the fact is that even if Falcao had been successful and scored 20 goals this season, it still would not have addressed the real problems with the squad.

We didn't need him, whether he was a success or not doesn't even matter, and plenty of people were prepared to point this out before he ever set foot in the club.

Liam O

gosplan wrote: »

Interesting point on F365



So the amazing performances against City, Liverpool etc are brought back a bit by the performances against the league's minnows.

To be honest, I think that's OK. The one thing that sets the Premiership apart, for me, is the approach of the lesser teams. The culture is to work your socks off and let the big guys know they're in a game. I think in other countries the culture might be 'who cares who they are, we'll play our game and show them our football' ... Barca 6 - Random team 0

I'm not knocking any league or anything, just saying that when it comes to playing the bottom half of the premiership, tactical approach might not be as important as ruthless determination. There's no ego about attacking football. I mean take West Brom the other day - approaching the whole game in two banks of 4 and five with 1 forward is fine. Who wants shots on target anyway?

A lot of good European tactical managers have this problem at first though. You'd imagine that LVG will be able to put it right.

City and Liverpool were both a LOT better last season though, using better performances against them this season is a bit silly. City could have won 3 or 4 nil in the first game if not for bad refereeing. The Chelsea games were similar enough results and a one goal win against Arsenal earlier in the season when Arsenal really should have won is all that he really has going for him in terms of beating top teams and they even had huge problems at the time.

Sand

bucketybuck wrote: »

It is true, and even if you don't think many of the players are top class the point still holds true when even just applied relative to our competition.

We are still scrapping away with the likes of Liverpool for fourth when the simple fact is that we wouldn't take a single player from their team, and there are a lot of Arsenal and City players that we probably wouldn't swap for either.

I don't think Liverpool have many, if any, top class players so if our squad is benchmarked with their team which barring last season has struggled and usually failed to get into the top 4 then it underlines my point of view.

I really don't see any of our actual rivals for titles being all that interested in the players we have. De Gea would interest most teams, barring Chelsea, but I cant see Mourinho wanting Mata, or Carrick or being willing to swap Costa for RVP, or even Rooney (now anyway). Let alone swapping Fabregas for Cleverley, or Fletcher or Fellaini, Hazard for Young or Nani.

Thats even before you start comparing the squad to genuine top class teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern Munich.

That mini revival run we went on recently, was that just down to a team of plucky underdogs raising their game? Or was it possible because in fact the likes of Shaw, Mata, Felliani, Herrera, Rooney, Smalling and others aren't actually all that bad?

No, they're not actually that bad but Shaw and Herrera were new additions to the squad under LVG, Fellaini (who is average - he's had 5 or 6 good games, Real Madrid are not monitoring his contract situation) and Mata were added in the season just prior leaving just Rooney and Smalling (whose form has varied throughout the season) as the only two players from the squad Fergie handed over that you reference - and Fergie seemed set on driving Rooney out of the club.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the squad was relegation material or lower table, but the majority of players in it were very average, and there seemed to be little or no succession planning with several veteran players coming to the end of their careers but with no obvious replacement signed.

Like I said, the vast majority of managers would kill to have the squad and the resources LVG, so I'm getting tired of hearing this club in turmoil rubbish. Its lazy thinking as an excuse for poor performance.

The resources, yes, the squad...not yet. But I trust that the squad LVG hands over to his successor will be much stronger than the one Moyes got from Fergie and the one Moyes passed to LVG.

Rayne Wooney

The way I look at it is next season when we're hopefully back in contention for the title we'll likely have 12 or 13 new players and possibly over 300 million spent since Fergie's last season

If you want to put last season down to Moyes go ahead but you would be wrong imo

Will I Amnt

bucketybuck wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Plenty of us said long before he signed that we did not need him and he would be a waste of money, I showed quotes yesterday to back this up and still people trot out the "hindsight" rubbish.

Heres another one:


Its not even a matter of the signing not working out, because the fact is that even if Falcao had been successful and scored 20 goals this season, it still would not have addressed the real problems with the squad.

We didn't need him, whether he was a success or not doesn't even matter, and plenty of people were prepared to point this out before he ever set foot in the club.

If we had the player we thought we were getting, we would be out of sight of the fight for 4th a long time ago.
There was plenty of people saying we didn't need van Persie too and then he fired us to a title.

These heavy scorers are vital to title winning teams. Suarez almost got that Liverpool side to a title. City don't win it without Agüero, Costa gave Chelsea a huge head start this season.

Without Falcao we had Rooney and an out of sorts van Persie, probably would have hung on to Welbeck. I was happy to see one of the most reknowned strikers in the game at the time come in.

Pro. F

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Falcao did turn out to be a mistake, only because he flopped badly. If Falcao had performed this season like he did before his move we wouldn't be having this conversation, he was bought as a lethal goalscorer and we moved on a not so lethal goalscorer, nothing much wrong with the thinking there IMO.

In your opinion there was nothing wrong with the thinking that brought in Falcao. In my opinion, spending big money on another high profile CF, who would be expecting to start, to add to a squad that already had Rooney, RVP and Mata in it was a waste of money, unnecessary disruption and extremely unlikely to end up with them all working together in any system. There was also the issue that this expensive, high profile CF had questions over his fitness and age.

When I said as much at the time posters were putting forward, what I pointed out were, unworkable formations as the solution. The manager tried those formations and, no surprise, they didn't work.

But all of this focus on just Falcao is a red herring anyway. The transfer window needs to be looked at as a whole, not just focused on whether one or two players flopped or not. When you look at all the transfers in and out and how the squad was left it's easy to see that it was handled poorly.

TheDoc

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Did this really happen? Because it sounds like a parody.

Was catching up on pods the last few days and it was mentioned on Football Weekly I think.

Hardly surprising, considering he also said how his current squad could win the Champions League : /

MythicalMadMan

Can people explain why Falcao was a mistake I mean he certainly hasnt worked out but that to me doesnt mean it was a mistake. We took a chance on getting a world class striker into the club for relatively cheap.
That to me is the right play and if you keep doing the right thing it will work out more times than not.
You cant say if something didnt work out it was a mistake, that is being results orientated. Sometimes you can do all the right things and it doesnt work thats life. There is no perfect formula for it.

We had a fairly busy transfer in and out process last summer in about 2/3rds of the window. We signed 5 players and sold more. Bringing in over 5 more players on top of that would have been a mistake as it would have been disruptive to the squad. Yes we were left short on depth but we didnt have any Europe to contend with.

Falcao was the only player brought in, who could arguably be said wasnt needed everyone else was.

I'm much happier the club to have a plan and implement it over 2 or 3 years instead of trying to buy a whole new squad in under 2 months. People really need to have more patience.