Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

TheDoc

Whatsisname wrote: »

Didn't watch it myself and I know ya need to take redcaf with a pinch of salt, but a few on there said it looked like he only came back from injury now and not 8 months ago, ball kept bouncing off him and couldnt keep it under control, kept getting muscled off the ball by an 18 year old and got in the way of 2 possible goals.

Watched the game last night after hearing he was playing. Was so so dire.

The above it all true. His ball control is no exaggeration, on par with a Sunday league striker. I don't think he was ever good at that, why he is trying to play that game now I don't know, but he looks absolutely hapless at the moment.

He was being knocked to the ground and getting the ball nicked off him by kids. Such an absolute shattered looking player with no confidence in his ability and just no sharpness what so ever. The deal to sign him was off for me a good few weeks ago with him having no chance, but it's at the point of embarrasing now.

I'd probably advocate terminating the deal with him now and let him finish of his season back at Monaco where maybe he can get some game time and play at a lower level to regain some confidence.

Too many excuses being offered for him by the way. Nothing to do with the system, style of play, or formation has any impact on a players ability not to control simple passes hit into them, misplace passes all over the shop, and be void of any sharp movement or running. I also think it amazing how he gets pushed of the ball so easily considering he absolutely bullied that Chelsea defence few seasons ago.

MythicalMadMan

bangkok wrote: »

only time will tell, if he signs for real Madrid next season or Juventus or some other top European team I think you will see the real falcao.

he could still play a huge part in the remainder of our season. He has too much quality to not succeed

If he has so much quality he should really be doing it in the reserve league which he didnt last night also last night isnt a reason to say his carreer is over but it wouldnt fill one with confidence that he was about to come good.

Bar getting injured he will have some part to play in our run in no doubt weather it is for the positive or not will remain to be seen. I left my crystal ball is in my other pants.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

loan is for the season, why would we cancel it?

He can get match fitness by playing with the first team, the whole reason we signed him

Because he has not regained anything close to his former ability, and we are paying a shedload of money for a guy who looks totally shattered.

We signed him as a marque striker to grab a rake of goals. Broke down injured for what, first half of the season pretty much?

We didn't sign him to get him fit for a year, to then have a battle with Real Madrid the following summer to sign him. The loan deal was smart to ensure we didn't spunk 40-50m on a crock, which he has turned out to be.

Injuries can have drastic effects on different players. Torres is a really good example, where he had a mental block against exerting himself and stretching his legs at full pelt for fear of it happening again. You don't just "loose" the qualities like Falcao had, it's all mental and maybe some hang over from his rush back from injury. But I don't think we should be using kid gloves with him, "hoping" he regains his form, at what, 29?

Anderson should be a constant reminder for trying to hold out for a resurgence in form from injury. Nevermind Torres. A lot of good striking talent out there at the moment that could be acquired cheaper then Falcao, and provide more then he does. It would be absolutely mental to even consider signing him permanently.

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

1 chance? How many 1 on 1's has he had this season? id say lest than 3.
Clearcut chances? less than 10.

we are creating nothing for him, or for our other strikers.

Rooney is our top scorer this season on 11 goals.

Harry Kane has 26 ffs, more than rooney, van persie and falcao combined


loan is for the season, why would we cancel it?

He can get match fitness by playing with the first team, the whole reason we signed him

So put unfit players struggling for form into a team struggling for form?

Well if you think his time at utd is finished why don't they just cancel it and give our much revered youths a go?

MythicalMadMan

bangkok wrote: »

Rooney is our top scorer this season on 11 goals.

Harry Kane has 26 ffs, more than rooney, van persie and falcao combined


He can get match fitness by playing with the first team, the whole reason we signed him

In the league we have scored one more goal than spurs and conceeded 13 less no point comparing overall as they have been in europe this season

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

only time will tell, if he signs for real Madrid next season or Juventus or some other top European team I think you will see the real falcao.

he could still play a huge part in the remainder of our season. He has too much quality to not succeed

Madrid won't touch him.

Torres had too much quality too.

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

1 chance? How many 1 on 1's has he had this season? id say lest than 3.
Clearcut chances? less than 10.

we are creating nothing for him, or for our other strikers.

Rooney is our top scorer this season on 11 goals.

Harry Kane has 26 ffs, more than rooney, van persie and falcao combined


loan is for the season, why would we cancel it?

He can get match fitness by playing with the first team, the whole reason we signed him

He will never get 1 on 1 chance because he isn't quick enough to beat CBs with pace, he is outpaced by every single CB till date this season.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Because he has not regained anything close to his former ability, and we are paying a shedload of money for a guy who looks totally shattered.

We signed him as a marque striker to grab a rake of goals. Broke down injured for what, first half of the season pretty much?

We didn't sign him to get him fit for a year, to then have a battle with Real Madrid the following summer to sign him. The loan deal was smart to ensure we didn't spunk 40-50m on a crock, which he has turned out to be.

game against stoke away I think it was, he was excellent, was his 4th start in a row, he had scored against villa away in the first run of 4, but the stoke game in tough conditions, I said finally, we are seeing the real falcao. He just needed that run of games to get up to speed, his movement, control, work rate it was all there, he scored a goal as well, then on 60mins he was taken off. van persie played the full 90mins and was awful. Falcao looked bemused coming off.

Next game at home v Southampton, falcao doesn't even make the bench, a bench that consisted of evans, mcnair, blackett, Wilson, fellaini and Herrera, even though the starting 11 that game had SIX defensive players staring, not including the goalkeeper.

It was a bizarre decision to say the least and one that I think signalled the end of falcao for whatever reason. Van Gaal said he wanted cover in defence and out wide, explaining there was no place for a "second striker".

Hococop

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I wonder what the reaction would be if we went ahead and purchased Falcao

Maybe this is LVG plan, make him have a poor season and we can renegotiate the buying price, once we own him watch as he scores 46 goals for the 2015-2016 season

Maximus Alexander

bangkok wrote: »

Rooney is our top scorer this season on 11 goals.

Harry Kane has 26 ffs

It's just such a mind bogglingly lazy comparison. Let's just totally ignore the fact that Kane has played 15 more games than Rooney and Wayne has been in midfield.

Can you even take your own posts seriously?

intellectual dosser

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I wonder what the reaction would be if we went ahead and purchased Falcao

The fee wouldn't bother me as much as the purchase meaning we wouldn't be signing anyone else for the position.

Polo_Mint

United need to get away from this Galácticos crap

Brings too much attention to the team and the media drag all of them down

Bring in the youthful great players but not world class to steady the boat.

United should be developing world class rather them buying them in for ripoff prices.

We have World Class players but not a team

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

game against stoke away I think it was, he was excellent, was his 4th start in a row, he had scored against villa away in the first run of 4, but the stoke game in tough conditions, I said finally, we are seeing the real falcao. He just needed that run of games to get up to speed, his movement, control, work rate it was all there, he scored a goal as well, then on 60mins he was taken off. van persie played the full 90mins and was awful. Falcao looked bemused coming off.

Next game at home v Southampton, falcao doesn't even make the bench, a bench that consisted of evans, mcnair, blackett, Wilson, fellaini and Herrera, even though the starting 11 that game had SIX defensive players staring, not including the goalkeeper.

It was a bizarre decision to say the least and one that I think signalled the end of falcao for whatever reason. Van Gaal said he wanted cover in defence and out wide, explaining there was no place for a "second striker".

I think you look at games too much through the eyes of a supporter. I know we are all obsessed with assist stats and passing % and how far they ran etc etc etc.
I read an article there a while back saying clubs, bayern in this instance, don't use them as they are worthless and don't work in determining how they played to the game plan.

Passing under pressure was a stat they used if I remember but I can't remember any more of it.

I do agree with you that falcao should have been kept on in a few games or started but there is a method to the madness of taking players off which unfortunely we will never know which can be frustrating to people.

It's just something to take on board, just because you see stuff on the pitch that you might think looks good, it might not be good for the team or how the manager wants to set up the gameplan.

bangkok

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It's just such a mind bogglingly lazy comparison. Let's just totally ignore the fact that Kane has played 15 more games than Rooney and Wayne has been in midfield.

Can you even take your own posts seriously?

ok sorry, Charlie Austin has the same amount of goals as van persie and falcao

The Moldy Gowl

Polo_Mint wrote: »

United need to get away from this Galácticos crap

Brings too much attention to the team and the media drag all of them down

Bring in the youthful great players but not world class to steady the boat.

United should be developing world class rather them buying them in for ripoff prices.

We have World Class players but not a team

So do what Liverpool do and hope to get lucky?

No.

sky88

i dont think many strikers could do well the way the team is playing this year we are not playing to any of our strikers best abilites.

bren2001

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I think you look at games too much through the eyes of a supporter. I know we are all obsessed with assist stats and passing % and how far they ran etc etc etc.
I read an article there a while back saying clubs, bayern in this instance, don't use them as they are worthless and don't work in determining how they played to the game plan.

Passing under pressure was a stat they used if I remember but I can't remember any more of it.

I do agree with you that falcao should have been kept on in a few games or started but there is a method to the madness of taking players off which unfortunely we will never know which can be frustrating to people.

It's just something to take on board, just because you see stuff on the pitch that you might think looks good, it might not be good for the team or how the manager wants to set up the gameplan.

Stats are just stats. The big problem in football and most other sports is not understanding which ones are important and which are not. Depending on clubs philosophies, they will varying levels of signifigence onto different ones. For example, Dortmund believe the most important one is the amount of distance covered on a pitch and thus, press high up the pitch and employ a high pressing running game. Bayern seemingly care about passes under pressure and thus, employ possession football.

It is utterly pointless trying to understand why LVG makes the decisions he does. We will never know. However, it is not hard to see why Falcao should be dropped for the remainder of the season. I'd personally send him back and save on the wages. We have enough cover in Rooney, VP and Wilson.

bucketybuck

I really couldn't care less if Falcao is unhappy playing in the reserves, we owe him absolutely nothing. It doesn't matter a jot that he once scored goals for Porto or Athletico Madrid, all that matters is what he has done for us and thats a whole lot of nothing to this point.

We never should have signed him in the first place, it was a ridiculous decision and if you search my posts you'll see that I said that at the time.

At this point, with so many crunch games coming up we simply don't have the luxury of continually hoping that he finally comes good. It has to be Rooney right up front, and Falcao can like it or lump it.

Maximus Alexander

bangkok wrote: »

ok sorry, Charlie Austin has the same amount of goals as van persie and falcao

Which would give you an idea of why Falcao is now playing for the U21s...

intellectual dosser

Polo_Mint wrote: »

United need to get away from this Galácticos crap

Brings too much attention to the team and the media drag all of them down

Bring in the youthful great players but not world class to steady the boat.

United should be developing world class rather them buying them in for ripoff prices.

We have World Class players but not a team

It has to be a mixture of both youth development and outside recruitment.

The youth development sounds lovely, its cheaper, and ads to the clubs character but the risks are higher and it takes much longer to bear fruit.

To be fair there is evidence of this this season, with Blackett, McNair and Wilson all being given a fair crack. I think most of the frustration on this thread is pointed at the summer recruits of DiMaria, Falcao and (yesterday) Blind.

Polo_Mint

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

So do what Liverpool do and hope to get lucky?

No.

Why compare to liverpool?

We are getting outplayed by half the league and only for Luck on out side we have the points.

keane2097

Falcao started playing really well up until around the time of the Leicester game at Old Trafford. Still missed plenty chances but movement was great, workrate was as well. His touch was still really bad.

After that he fell off a cliff, against Burnley IIRC and started being really, really bad again.

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

ok sorry, Charlie Austin has the same amount of goals as van persie and falcao

And you cry about Falcao playing for U21s.

Mantis Toboggan

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Why compare to liverpool?

We are getting outplayed by half the league and only for Luck on out side we have the points.

Exactly we were never a galactico team and have 20 league titles. Comparing us to Liverpool was just an example of the ****e that gets sprouted in here.

MythicalMadMan

This time last season we sat 7th 11 points off 4th :cool:

The Moldy Gowl

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Exactly we were never a galactico team and have 20 league titles. Comparing us to Liverpool was just an example of the ****e that gets sprouted in here.

We have been consistently one of the highest spenders in the leauge breaking transfer records on the way. We have always gone for the best.
And youth.


This is just how football is these days. You can't sit around and hope your youths turn out good because the vast majority of them won't be of the standard.

Going to Liverpools method is a step down.

MythicalMadMan

Season before we sat 1st 15 points from 2nd :P

Maximus Alexander

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

This time last season we sat 7th 11 points off 4th :cool:

This time the year before, 0 points off 1st. :pac:

Edit: You beat me to replying to your own post! Do I have a split personality and two accounts?

Polo_Mint

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

We have been consistently one of the highest spenders in the leauge breaking transfer records on the way. We have always gone for the best.
And youth.


This is just how football is these days. You can't sit around and hope your youths turn out good because the vast majority of them won't be of the standard.

Going to Liverpools method is a step down.

United have not always gone for the Best

We have always gone for very gifted players which SAF moulded into the best.

We have always been linked to the best by the media but rarely bought theses players

MythicalMadMan

Polo_Mint wrote: »

United have not always gone for the Best

We have always gone for very gifted players which SAF moulded into the best.

We have always been linked to the best by the media but rarely bought theses players

We broke plenty of transfer records under ferguson. One player out of our last 7 was a Galatico like signing and one loan like one.

Liam O

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

This time last season we sat 7th 11 points off 4th :cool:

Yeah with a much worse squad and other teams being far better than this season. Arsenal and Chelsea are the only teams better in the top 6 than last season imo and Arsenal are only starting to really come together now.

bangkok

Polo_Mint wrote: »

United have not always gone for the Best

We have always gone for very gifted players which SAF moulded into the best.

We have always been linked to the best by the media but rarely bought theses players

in fairness we have gone for a lot of quality players down through the years but they never joined for whatever reason, few off the top of my head I can remember

Ronaldo at PSV
Batistuta
Kluivert
Shearer
Gasgoigne
Ronaldinho
Lucas Moura
Hazard
Sanchez

TheDoc

Polo_Mint wrote: »

United have not always gone for the Best

We have always gone for very gifted players which SAF moulded into the best.

We have always been linked to the best by the media but rarely bought theses players

I agree with this. In the 90's we had a really good track record signing the best proven quality domestically and integrating that into our squad. Cantona, Irwin, Keane, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and the list goes on.

We were the dominant force domestically and could entice any player to come and promise a league title , or a challenge for one.

At the turn of the century our net started to span across Europe as it became evident that the league could attract quality foreign stars. And then as transfer fees started to get sky high, we looked to try sign players with tremendous promise and mould them into first team players to get the longterm out of.

That change in direction is risky for obvious reasons. Plenty of players that havn't worked out. But the reward for when it does? Ronaldo as the key example.

The problem with our policy was we didn't really balance it out. All our transfers started going into youth for the future, and we neglected the immediate needs for the team. That's obviously hit a head the last two summers, where now the club needs to play catchup, as quickly as possible, and that means going for first tier targets that will cost big money.

As above we have always been linked with the best, but to be honest it's probably only last summer I can remember where we went out and bought tier 1 signings that were massive names. The club has tried plenty of time to get real quality but fell short. Something I feel Gill seems to get a free pass on when people look in retrospect, he bungled plenty of transfers of big name players.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

in fairness we have gone for a lot of quality players down through the years but they never joined for whatever reason, few off the top of my head I can remember

Ronaldo at PSV
Batistuta
Kluivert
Shearer
Gasgoigne
Ronaldinho
Lucas Moura
Hazard
Sanchez

The bungling of Robben was one that still irks me, especially when you see the way he developed after he left Chelsea.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I agree with this. In the 90's we had a really good track record signing the best proven quality domestically and integrating that into our squad. Cantona, Irwin, Keane, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and the list goes on.

We were the dominant force domestically and could entice any player to come and promise a league title , or a challenge for one.

At the turn of the century our net started to span across Europe as it became evident that the league could attract quality foreign stars. And then as transfer fees started to get sky high, we looked to try sign players with tremendous promise and mould them into first team players to get the longterm out of.

That change in direction is risky for obvious reasons. Plenty of players that havn't worked out. But the reward for when it does? Ronaldo as the key example.

The problem with our policy was we didn't really balance it out. All our transfers started going into youth for the future, and we neglected the immediate needs for the team. That's obviously hit a head the last two summers, where now the club needs to play catchup, as quickly as possible, and that means going for first tier targets that will cost big money.

As above we have always been linked with the best, but to be honest it's probably only last summer I can remember where we went out and bought tier 1 signings that were massive names.

van persie?
berbatov when we signed him
tevez
owen hargreves
kagawa at the time

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

The bungling of Robben was one that still irks me, especially when you see the way he developed after he left Chelsea.

I think peter Kenyon messed that up, knowing full well he was going to Chelsea himself

MythicalMadMan

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah with a much worse squad and other teams being far better than this season. Arsenal and Chelsea are the only teams better in the top 6 than last season imo and Arsenal are only starting to really come together now.

So two teams in the top 6 are better, we are back in, southampton on par with if not better than everton and spurs are well spurs 3 points less off liverpool worse off.
So no I wouldnt agree last years teams were much better.

Our squad has improved not drastically though and we lost a lot of experience from last season

rob316

Polo_Mint wrote: »

United have not always gone for the Best

We have always gone for very gifted players which SAF moulded into the best.

We have always been linked to the best by the media but rarely bought theses players

That's BS united broke countless British transfer records.

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

van persie?
berbatov when we signed him
tevez
owen hargreves
kagawa at the time

That was one or 2 a year which is good input and balance.

Yes they were also expensive.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

van persie?
berbatov when we signed him
tevez
owen hargreves
kagawa at the time

Sorry paragraph got ommited when posting that, mentioned that Van Persie and Berbatov were big signings we made domestically that continued our somewhat strong history of getting good returns from domestic strikers. Each contributed goals that helped secure a league title.

Tevez in fairness was brought in on loan or something odd wasnt he? And while he did well for West Ham, he wasn't a world renowned talent at the time.

I'd argue the same for Hargreaves, who had an impressive international tournament and season with Bayern.

Kagawa had a breakout half season with Dortmund before he arrived, he wasn't in anyway shape or form a recognised world class player. And unlikely he will hit those heights again from watching Dortmund this year.

Polo_Mint

rob316 wrote: »

That's BS united broke countless British transfer records.

You're confusing the best players with what United were charged for any players.

Uniteds Scouts need to start pulling there weight and start looking for the talent all over the world.

Linking United with the Vidals, Bales, strootman and so on would make me a Qualified Scout

We need to be looking for the Pre Famous Ronaldo's, Rafeals and so on.

MojoRisinnnn

Polo_Mint wrote: »

United need to get away from this Galácticos crap

Brings too much attention to the team and the media drag all of them down

Bring in the youthful great players but not world class to steady the boat.

United should be developing world class rather them buying them in for ripoff prices.

We have World Class players but not a team

Such a basic observation but so very very true

bangkok

Polo_Mint wrote: »

You're confusing the best players with what United were charged for any players.

Uniteds Scouts need to start pulling there weight and start looking for the talent all over the world.

Linking United with the Vidals, Bales, strootman and so on would make me a Qualified Scout

We need to be looking for the Pre Famous Ronaldo's, Rafeals and so on.

yea the only problem is we are competing against all the top clubs in the world and even in Manchester, city have better facilities for youths over united

MojoRisinnnn

Does anyone think if De Gea was in the form he was in last season Moyes would have been given more time as the results wouldn't have been so bad? I think his performances this season have made united a completley different team seeing as again Arsenal, United would have lost 4 or 5-1 and losing 2-1 really takes some of the heat of Van Gaal, thinking of how many points he has won United this season would probably see them down in 7th or 8th. David De God.

The Moldy Gowl

MojoRisinnnn wrote: »

Does anyone think if De Gea was in the form he was in last season Moyes would have been given more time as the results wouldn't have been so bad? I think his performances this season have made united a completley different team seeing as again Arsenal, United would have lost 4 or 5-1 and losing 2-1 really takes some of the heat of Van Gaal, thinking of how many points he has won United this season would probably see them down in 7th or 8th. David De God.

He played the same last year?

RobertKK

De Gea trending on twitter thanks to former Liverpool player, Jamie Carragher saying he believes Madrid will look to sign De Gea this summer.

Well they wouldn't want the Liverpool goalkeeper.

RobertKK

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

He played the same last year?

Yeah with a worse defense in front of him. Rio, Vidic and Evra who were gone beyond their best before date.

Polo_Mint

bangkok wrote: »

yea the only problem is we are competing against all the top clubs in the world and even in Manchester, city have better facilities for youths over united

BVB09 besides the mess this season is the perfect example I would like United to follow

They had amazing talent over the last 10 years who were not all from the Youth team but scouted properly

They were/are a Team who could pretty much rip apart any team in Europe and most likely beyond

Its getting harder to have pride in united when their objective seems not to build a team but to try and buy single fixes because the amazing talent is not around them who they have been playing with for years

Rayne Wooney

Carraghers bitterness always shines through, he's been going on about De Gea leaving all season praying his words come through


I'm glad the apex point has been reached, where if you don't acknowledge how great De Gea is you just look stupid, it wasn't there earlier in the season with Liverpool fans but it is now, it happened with Ronaldo too if I remember correctly

MythicalMadMan

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Linking United with the Vidals, Bales, strootman and so on would make me a Qualified Scout

We need to be looking for the Pre Famous Ronaldo's, Rafeals and so on.

No it would quailify you a click bait jurno which is where you read all them names.
Im going to take a wild guess and say youve never read a scouting report from a United scout.