Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Liam McPoyle

Saw on SSN that Diego has retired from international football. He never hit the heights he hit elsewhere with us but he scored some cracking goals and showed glimpses of the skills that would develop in Spain. The 2 against the Scouse were particularly enjoyable at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWtBiDuLbXk

Kerrydude1981

Business Cat wrote: »

Saw on SSN that Diego has retired from international football. He never hit the heights he hit elsewhere with us but he scored some cracking goals and showed glimpses of the skills that would develop in Spain. The 2 against the Scouse were particularly enjoyable at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWtBiDuLbXk

Some crackers there in that clip,the English media at the time had a field day when he went so many games without a goal for Utd and then he started to score and went on to be a top class striker in Spain and they weren't long changing their tune.

bangkok

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Some crackers there in that clip,the English media at the time had a field day when he went so many games without a goal for Utd and then he started to score and went on to be a top class striker in Spain and they weren't long changing their tune.

he got 17 yellow cards in his united career.... all for taking his jersey off

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Actually if we can sign Verratti (no way any team will be signing him) then we are set for a decade in midfield. Apart from his scholesesque moments he is very good defensively. The way he controlled the games vs Chelsea was great, even better when he is just 22.

He can easily play in place of Carrick and Blind and would be our best midfielder without a doubt.

I would love to see Verratti - Herrera - Fellaini/Schneiderlin. Need Schneiderlin to add some physical presence though.

Well as I say, that's not the way I see his defending at the moment, although he could sort that over time.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Well as I say, that's not the way I see his defending at the moment, although he could sort that over time.

he is like a young pirlo having a player like carrick/matic/busquets beside him would be ideal

TheDoc

Your Airbag wrote: »

These Depay rumors keep gathering traction.

What is the Superthreads opinion on him?

I'm starting to watch PSV again to see what he is like. Actually a decent team to watch, caught most of their games when Strootman was breaking through.

I've only seen two games, but in both games he scored and was pretty influential.

I'd be lying if I didn't admit part of me watching him is due to how outrageous he for me in Football Manager But there was an article a while back(think I shared link) with a Dutch guy discussing him and seemed to have pretty accurate information that after world cup Van Gaal told him to stay with PSV for another year and his development will sky rocket.

Guy seemed to indicate the conversation was along the lines of stay with PSV for a season and I'll take you to United for the first team, cause you will be ready. Might be a speculative not sure, but seemingly he did reject a potential move to Spurs in the summer?

Nolars wrote: »

Whats going on with ronaldo at madrid seems to be some stuff going on

The usual. Fans on his back, media on his back, struggling to meet his standards and the team around him crumbling a little. He was noticeably frustrated against Schalke.

The **** he gets from the Madrid media and Real's own fans is shocking. For all the ****e talk about clubs claiming to have "the best fans in the world" Real fans must be one of the worst in the elite club category. Frequently booing and abusing their own players.

And people think United fans have a hollier then thou sense of entitlement.

More I watch Bundesliga more I feel they have the best fans in the world. Some incredible scenes this year of fan and player interaction, probably summed up with the poor young CB that fluffed a ball that let Reus in for a tap in and lost the game. The players go right up to fans applauding and loads of the fans grabbed him for a hug and telling him not to worry about it.

Compare that with scenes last night in every camera shot of Chelsea fans swearing and giving wanker gestures and stuff, with kids beside them, meh, appears such a horrible tribal culture.

The Moldy Gowl

That's the part I hate most about football. The abuse the fans give other players. It's mental, especially at corners, you can make out the words they are saying.

You wouldn't see them on the road doing similar to total stranger. How is a footballer any different. Even the 'banter' filled songs are just as bad. It's just needlessly aggressive behaviour then they will harp on about respect if something happens but show absolutely no respect to others.

I would say the vast majority of them walk around town in track suit pants needlessly looking at someone aggressive and anyone in my eyes who does that has a mental disability.

Liam O

Forlan was unlucky, I think given another season it would have all fallen into place with him with Saha's injuries and him Rooney and Ronaldo would have torn teams to shreds. One of the best players to not make it at United and I think fans could see that.

newballsplease

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

That's the part I hate most about football. The abuse the fans give other players. It's mental, especially at corners, you can make out the words they are saying.

You wouldn't see them on the road doing similar to total stranger. How is a footballer any different. Even the 'banter' filled songs are just as bad. It's just needlessly aggressive behaviour then they will harp on about respect if something happens but show absolutely no respect to others.

I would say the vast majority of them walk around town in track suit pants needlessly looking at someone aggressive and anyone in my eyes who does that has a mental disability.

Ned flanders !!

intellectual dosser

Obviously Arsenal and City still have a pulse in the Champions League, but I don't think it's any harm that no English team makes it to the quarter finals. Souness was correct last night saying that what was going on (strong reference to Ibra red card) was pathetic, but not just limited to Chelsea but to the game in England in general.

This isn't a thinly veiled "Haha Arsenal/Chelsea/City/Liverpool are crap in Europe", we saw United players diving on Monday.

The level of sportsmanship in the English game is embarrassing, not having a team in the last 8 is an ample reward.

bangkok

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Obviously Arsenal and City still have a pulse in the Champions League, but I don't think it's any harm that no English team makes it to the quarter finals. Souness was correct last night saying that what was going on (strong reference to Ibra red card) was pathetic, but not just limited to Chelsea but to the game in England in general.

This isn't a thinly veiled "Haha Arsenal/Chelsea/City/Liverpool are crap in Europe", we saw United players diving on Monday.

The level of sportsmanship in the English game is embarrassing, not having a team in the last 8 is an ample reward.

in fairness, that was a mourinho team last night so wouldn't expect anything else. Football as a whole is embarrassing somethings. Watch el classico its nearly a soap opera at this stage. diving is rife all over the world in every league

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDMRxcUIfy4

this is de rossi, "hard man" of Italian football

The Moldy Gowl

newballsplease wrote: »

Ned flanders !!

If showing courtesy to someone I have never met or talked to is being ned Flanders then call me neddy.

Machoism and trying to be the the cock of the walk has no place in society.

bucketybuck

Have to laugh at all the Mourinho hate today. For all his sins its damn sure we wouldn't be struggling for 4th today had we given him the job.

Liam McPoyle

bucketybuck wrote: »

Have to laugh at all the Mourinho hate today. For all his sins its damn sure we wouldn't be struggling for 4th today had we given him the job.

Absolutely.

I was full sure he was a shoe in for the United job when Fergie hung up his spurs and was pretty damn disappointed when I didn't happen.

Yes he acts the gowl from time to time but the man is a proven winner.

I'd much rather have him in charge and be successful than be in the situation we are currently in.

It would be lovely to play beautiful footy and be successful but the 2 rarely gel nowadays, give me success over anything any day of the week tbh.

Headshot

Jose is a short term fix, he soon enough develops a poison that sips through the club in the long term

MythicalMadMan

In his first season back, Jose took chelsea from 3rd in the league to 3rd in the league, with a few extra points, even the special one needs a bitta time to get his squad sorted.

I'd also love to see what the meltdown here would be like if we surrendured the initiative to a team playing with 10 men from 35 mins on.

Not saying Jose aint a proven winner but everything in perspective

bucketybuck

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

In his first season back, Jose took chelsea from 3rd in the league to 3rd in the league, with a few extra points, even the special one needs a bitta time to get his squad sorted.

I'd also love to see what the meltdown here would be like if we surrendured the initiative to a team playing with 10 men from 35 mins on.

Not saying Jose aint a proven winner but everything in perspective

You know where he didn't take them? 7th.

MythicalMadMan

bucketybuck wrote: »

You know where he didn't take them? 7th.

Yes I do know that in fact I know all the other positions he didnt take them but I thought I implied that by saying they finished 3rd.
Not sure where in my post you think I was comparing him to moyes either but I wasnt.

TheDoc

Had strong feelings before Moyes was appointed and Mourinho was still in speculation, and stick by it now. Would not want him near the club.

Absolutely poisonous individual that I can't stomach, and while I wouldn't go as far as to say "over rated", is suitable for a specific type of club, and United is not one of them.

bangkok

mourinho leaves no footprint at a club, no long term targets, everything is I need this, this and this. Last summer it was costa, fabregas, matic. I doubt he ever goes to youth team games as he is not interested in developing young players. he leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

don't care how good or bad he is, im glad he is not manager of our club. I would be happy for van gaal to be over our club for the next 3 years than to endure mourinho for one. he is poison.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

mourinho leaves no footprint at a club, no long term targets, everything is I need this, this and this. Last summer it was costa, fabregas, matic. I doubt he ever goes to youth team games as he is not interested in developing young players. he leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

don't care how good or bad he is, im glad he is not manager of our club. I would be happy for van gaal to be over our club for the next 3 years than to endure mourinho for one. he is poison.

Something I agree with you on he has shipped a good lot of youth players out since joining. I was just talking about this in work, hes the last man I'd want at our club

Vic Vinegar

I agree with the essence of Bangkok's sentiment, albeit with less of a tendency toward vitriol.

TheDoc

Last night Depay favourited a link that said he would be joining United in the summer.

Silly season starting early

MythicalMadMan

Mourinho would never get the Bayern job, the barca job (even before real) or by the looks of it the United job as said he is more suited to some clubs.
I think the more media attention he gets the worse he is. What was he like when he was at inter I never heard too much and didnt follow it at all?

The Moldy Gowl

It's only offiicial whn he starts following other players on Instagram doc

bangkok

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Mourinho would never get the Bayern job, the barca job (even before real) or by the looks of it the United job as said he is more suited to some clubs.
I think the more media attention he gets the worse he is. What was he like when he was at inter I never heard too much and didnt follow it at all?

same he is at every club, wouldn't speak to the media for ages, handcuff gestures at a ref in one game, figure to his lip to silence the home crowd in another, us against the world crap

bangkok

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Mourinho would never get the Bayern job, the barca job (even before real) or by the looks of it the United job as said he is more suited to some clubs.
I think the more media attention he gets the worse he is. What was he like when he was at inter I never heard too much and didnt follow it at all?

funny as it may seem, but if Joan Laporta wins the next barca election, he might be looking for mourinho to be their next manager

The_Kew_Tour

Mourinho is one of the greatest managers of all time.

Nothing from last night changes that. Fergie had some grim days too. Jose is not overrated. He attention to detail and he is a tactical genius.

But from United point of view I think he would make us a circus if things did not go all according to plan.

Rayne Wooney

Mourinho is a fantastic trophy winner

If you want them and don't care how they come he's the man

5starpool

bangkok wrote: »

funny as it may seem, but if Joan Laporta wins the next barca election, he might be looking for mourinho to be their next manager

I don't think Laporta would really want that. It would be an insanely unpopular move both in terms of Mourinho's lack of populatiry with the fans and in terms of his too pragmatic style.

Potential Underachiever

TheDoc wrote: »

Last night Depay favourited a link that said he would be joining United in the summer.

Silly season starting early

What happens if Van Gaal isn't at utd in the summer?

Cantona's Collars

LVG has been reading my posts: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/van-gaals-plans-give-man-8826088

The Dutchman has been criticised for his cautious approach since taking over at Old Trafford last summer - with supporters demanding a return to the thrills of Sir Alex Ferguson’s tenure.

While Van Gaal maintains complete faith in his own methods - he plans to develop a more attacking style next season, which is more in-keeping with United’s traditions and his own at Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

The Moldy Gowl

That's a big problem I have.

The fans demand to play like the Alex ferguson way completey negating te fact that other managers have their own style and methods.

They play it off as the United way forgetting that the United way is basically the ferguson way.

jayo26

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

What happens if Van Gaal isn't at utd in the summer?

I think he will be. This season hasn't been great but uprooting manager after every bad season is not the way to go. We rebuild in summer and go again I still think he will get it right next season.

jayo26

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

That's a big problem I have.

The fans demand to play like the Alex ferguson way completey negating te fact that other managers have their own style and methods.

They play it off as the United way forgetting that the United way is basically the ferguson way.

Its a bit like the hammers fans calling for teams big sam to play the west ham way only thing was the west ham way got them relegated and bankrupt nearly.

There is no united way of playing as such. Just the beliefs of the club is to bring in young players and to attack when possible but fergie didn't always attack either.

Brendan Flowers

Speaking of playing the SAF way, is there any manager out there at the moment that you would consider similar to Sir Alex?

jayo26

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Speaking of playing the SAF way, is there any manager out there at the moment that you would consider similar to Sir Alex?

Nope I don't think so. He was fairly unique in everything he did. Maybe its because he was around so long but saf was a old school manager been successful in a modern era.

Drumpot

I think we saw last night exactly why Jose was not made manager of United. Its the same reason United turned down more money for sponcorship from a gambling company. As much as I am not excited about the United owners, they are trying to maintain a certain culture within the club. Their planning is long term and is about the long term identity of the club.

What happened last year with Moyes and what is happening this year with LVG, is because when SAF retired a huge vaccum was created. Its clear that the squad that won the league 2 seasons ago was over achieving and primed to succeed under SAF (and nobody else).

I think Chelsea and City could finish in the top 4 with Avram Grant or worse. I don't believe the united squad now or when SAF retired, was capable of doing the same. How many united players that have left since SAF retired, have joined bigger clubs? How many existing United players would be purchased by top clubs ? Its the biggest compliment possible that could be paid to the genius of SAF, that the squad he left looks so poor without his leadership.

People need to start looking at this objectively. How long were people calling SAF's team "effective" but very poor in comparison to his teams of the 90s? When was the last time United played dashing, exciting, successful football under SAF?

I am not putting the great man down, I am saying that people are throwing out insignificant and inaccurate comments about "the Manchester United way of playing football". Its been a long time since united played consistently entertaining football. The last few times they won the league, the football wasn't great, it was effective and successful so nobody really cared.

In terms of LVG and Moyes, I think the gravity of the job has been highlighted this season. People are reverting to the simplistic answer to the problem "its the managers fault", but that's only because this is the culture in the game. Instant success and instant gratification is paramount. Managers aren't given just one year because its the best course of action, its because fans and owners are fickle and have zero patience. Because its popular to blame a manager for everything, its taken that its prudent and ok to always benchmark managers in this matter by picking out a manager who has a better record that is somewhat comparable (but not exactly), to qualify their view that a manager just isn't good enough.

Ex players of United are pissed off seeing united play and perform poorly. they expect the club to be doing better, but they aren't managers of a top club, so they aren't really in a position to identify the problem. This is why I find it odd when people take so much from what former players say in public. I think LVG and Scholes would agree that United is a club that should be aiming to challenge for the league and champions league. The only difference is that LVG has a proven record of building top teams to that level, Scholes only has experience playing in a team that was built to the top level.

For me LVG should and will be kept on next season irrespective of the finishing spot. He will be given another huge kitty to rebuild the squad. After over a decade of under investment (look at uniteds net spend to rivals between 2005-2013), the squad has a lack of individual talent that the likes of Chelsea and City have.

Maximus Alexander

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Speaking of playing the SAF way, is there any manager out there at the moment that you would consider similar to Sir Alex?

I guess it depends what you mean by similar. Genetically similar, sure. :pac:

5starpool

zerks wrote: »

LVG has been reading my posts: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/van-gaals-plans-give-man-8826088

So he is saying "I know we are playing rubbish now, but we'll be more entertaining next season, honest". Strange statement. Does that apply if utd achieve their aims of CL places this season, or even if they miss out? Why has he not used the weeks between games to develop that style this season?

Maximus Alexander

5starpool wrote: »

So he is saying "I know we are playing rubbish now, but we'll be more entertaining next season, honest". Strange statement. Does that apply if utd achieve their aims of CL places this season, or even if they miss out? Why has he not used the weeks between games to develop that style this season?

He'd probably say something along the lines of he has been following his process and focusing on getting his philosophy in place and that comes later, or something.

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

I think we saw last night exactly why Jose was not made manager of United. Its the same reason United turned down more money for sponcorship from a gambling company. As much as I am not excited about the United owners, they are trying to maintain a certain culture within the club. Their planning is long term and is about the long term identity of the club.

What happened last year with Moyes and what is happening this year with LVG, is because when SAF retired a huge vaccum was created. Its clear that the squad that won the league 2 seasons ago was over achieving and primed to succeed under SAF (and nobody else).

I think Chelsea and City could finish in the top 4 with Avram Grant or worse. I don't believe the united squad now or when SAF retired, was capable of doing the same. How many united players that have left since SAF retired, have joined bigger clubs? How many existing United players would be purchased by top clubs ? Its the biggest compliment possible that could be paid to the genius of SAF, that the squad he left looks so poor without his leadership.

People need to start looking at this objectively. How long were people calling SAF's team "effective" but very poor in comparison to his teams of the 90s? When was the last time United played dashing, exciting, successful football under SAF?

I am not putting the great man down, I am saying that people are throwing out insignificant and inaccurate comments about "the Manchester United way of playing football". Its been a long time since united played consistently entertaining football. The last few times they won the league, the football wasn't great, it was effective and successful so nobody really cared.

In terms of LVG and Moyes, I think the gravity of the job has been highlighted this season. People are reverting to the simplistic answer to the problem "its the managers fault", but that's only because this is the culture in the game. Instant success and instant gratification is paramount. Managers aren't given just one year because its the best course of action, its because fans and owners are fickle and have zero patience. Because its popular to blame a manager for everything, its taken that its prudent and ok to always benchmark managers in this matter by picking out a manager who has a better record that is somewhat comparable (but not exactly), to qualify their view that a manager just isn't good enough.

Ex players of United are pissed off seeing united play and perform poorly. they expect the club to be doing better, but they aren't managers of a top club, so they aren't really in a position to identify the problem. This is why I find it odd when people take so much from what former players say in public. I think LVG and Scholes would agree that United is a club that should be aiming to challenge for the league and champions league. The only difference is that LVG has a proven record of building top teams to that level, Scholes only has experience playing in a team that was built to the top level.

For me LVG should and will be kept on next season irrespective of the finishing spot. He will be given another huge kitty to rebuild the squad. After over a decade of under investment (look at uniteds net spend to rivals between 2005-2013), the squad has a lack of individual talent that the likes of Chelsea and City have.

considering they are at united, that would be fairly hard to do. That's like asking what players left Barcelona and went onto play for a bigger club.

all through the 90s and 00's. 2007-10 we were one of the most feared teams in europe

MythicalMadMan

5starpool wrote: »

So he is saying "I know we are playing rubbish now, but we'll be more entertaining next season, honest". Strange statement. Does that apply if utd achieve their aims of CL places this season, or even if they miss out? Why has he not used the weeks between games to develop that style this season?

I'd imagine this is all just PR and as he gets more players in and out he wants we will be playing better football as a result of that, more than a massive style of play change.

5starpool

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

I'd imagine this is all just PR and as he gets more players in and out he wants we will be playing better football as a result of that, more than a massive style of play change.

It's just more blather from managers, and not something Brendan Rodgers is a stranger too either. I'm just not a fan of flowery words without action to be honest.

MythicalMadMan

5starpool wrote: »

It's just more blather from managers, and not something Brendan Rodgers is a stranger too either. I'm just not a fan of flowery words without action to be honest.

Like I do think it was his plan to be playing better football next season regaurdless but with the discontent that has been shown recently from some quarters they are saying it to appease the fans that cant see or done think there is a bigger picture than this season.

bucketybuck

Drumpot wrote: »

I think Chelsea and City could finish in the top 4 with Avram Grant or worse. I don't believe the united squad now or when SAF retired, was capable of doing the same.

Get out of it. Our squad then and now were easily capable of a meager top four finish, its only some pretty horrific mismanagement that sees us in our current position.

The squad was not without its issues, but compared to our rivals we did and still have a wealth of talent available, talent that even now our rivals would love to have available themselves.

sReq | uTeK

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

I'd imagine this is all just PR and as he gets more players in and out he wants we will be playing better football as a result of that, more than a massive style of play change.

His words are somewhat taken out of context i'd imagine. I'd say this year was all about coming in, being steady, not losing many games (which he's done to be fair - if 1 or two draws go the other way we're now very comfortable) and getting his foot under the table.

I really think he's made some strange decisions but hopefully most of it will aid us next season.

Top4 or not he will be here next season so we may as well get behind him.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

considering they are at united, that would be fairly hard to do. That's like asking what players left Barcelona and went onto play for a bigger club.

all through the 90s and 00's. 2007-10 we were one of the most feared teams in europe

What about between 2010 and 2013? DM took over the squad that had been changed between these years, not a 2010 swashbuckling United. .

bucketybuck wrote: »

Get out of it. Our squad then and now were easily capable of a meager top four finish, its only some pretty horrific mismanagement that sees us in our current position.

The squad was not without its issues, but compared to our rivals we did and still have a wealth of talent available, talent that even now our rivals would love to have available themselves.

In 2012, the following players played 20+ league games for united:
De Gea, Rafael, Evra, Ferdinand, Evans, Valencia, Rooney, Carrick, Van Persie
Those who played 15-20 league games that season include vidic, kagawa, cleverly, Young and Nani

That's 15 players that played that make up the bulk of Uniteds last title winning squad.

6 joined/loaned to either leagues or clubs that wouldn't be considered a step up from Man United 2013 - Evra - Juventus, Vidic - Inter, Kagawa - Dortmund , Cleverley - Villa, Nani - Sporting , Rio - QPR

3 are regular starters - De Gea, Rooney, Valencia (not considered a top full back by any stretch)


6 have chronic injury problems and have at the very least question marks about their future at the club (and there aren't a load of top clubs lining up for them!) - Rafael, Evans, Jones, Carrick, Van Persie, Smalling.

Unless we got a manager who could make players younger and prevent them from getting injuries, you are greatly mistaken . . Unless of course you can enlighten us all to the wealth of talent that I have not included on this post?

TheDoc

5starpool wrote: »

It's just more blather from managers, and not something Brendan Rodgers is a stranger too either. I'm just not a fan of flowery words without action to be honest.

Van Gaal has changed tact a few times this season alright. I don't know specifically what it is. Maybe the players arn't learning the way he wants, or maybe don't possess what he needs.

The feeling has grown throughout the year that he is not the sort of guy who is going to take whats put in front of him, and get 110% out of it. I think he has numerous systems and formations, and that he tries to convert and try various players in these positions, but ultimately I think he needs to identify and bring in players with the specific traits he needs.

I suppose the added benefit of having a season to see the squad, he will be in a good place to know what he needs specifically. He didn't get that much time pre-season.

Also I'm not utterly convinced all our signings was his doing, if maybe there was some pressure from top to buy some marquee names to flex our muscles a bit. The clear issues with Shaw, and the issue with Herrera, indicate while the manager said he "signed" them off, there might have been pressure from above due to the work that had gone into them before he was announced.

Blind and Rojo are the only clear indications for me of "Van Gaal" signings and you can see the multi purpose function of both.

However maybe now it will be clear to the board from Van Gaal, that they need to get who he wants, not what they want, if they want to succeed. All just speculative of course, but maybe rather than it being a manager staying the axe, it's actually a really good insight into the transfers that occured last summer(or I'm reading too much into it)

bucketybuck

Drumpot wrote: »

Unless we got a manager who could make players younger and prevent them from getting injuries, you are greatly mistaken . . Unless of course you can enlighten us all to the wealth of talent that I have not included on this post?

I'm not even close to mistaken. If you want to believe that both our squad last year and also this years squad are not good enough for top four then you are talking rubbish.

We have at best world class players and at worst players just as good as those in our rivals squads, that we cannot use them properly does not change that fact that the talent is there.