Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

greendom

MagicIRL wrote: »

Handy for a Hoofball goal or two!

Begovic to Fellaini - match made in heaven

Lovely Bloke

bangkok wrote: »

so he earns currently 70k a week and you would be happy to pay him 390k a week?

what does current wages have to do with anything?

Either a business wants to keep an employee or they don't. If they don't, then off he goes to negotiate employment with a new employer, good luck to him.

If they do want him to stay, he's perfectly entitled to state his demands - and if that is for 400k a week, then that's what it is - if they still wish to retain his services, then they'll give him 400k per week.

If the business finds that 400k a week is too much, then tell him and let him go and negotiate terms with another employer.

Why people expect footballers, or football contracts, or employment negotiations to act differently to non-football employment is beyond me. And also weird.

Lord TSC

if Rooney and RVP are on 200+ a week, De Gea easily deserves to be as well. I'd be far more happy and comfortable with him earning those wages, based on performance and importance to the team and league position, than I am other players.

The Moldy Gowl

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Why people expect footballers, or football contracts, or employment negotiations to act differently to non-football employment is beyond me. And also weird.

This is what grinds my gears. Some people seen to think they owe us and should be so honoured to play fr the club and be paid nothing in a career of 15 years and really only earning massive money for 5/7 years to last them the next 50.

They are also human. If they want to leave, they want to leave, nothing anyone can do. If I was offered a job in Madrid I would take it and ask for more money. Which is what I have done recently.
No intention of moving, did interview, asked for money, got job and am moving company. This scenario could easily happen anywhere in life.

TheDoc

It's about time goalkeepers were properly re-numerated also.

It's a specialist position, where mistakes result in goals conceded directly, and strong performances enable victories and points earned.

We have one of the top three keepers in the world. Watching Cortious this year, actually feel his reputation might have been a bit embelished by partial la liga viewers. He is a top goalkeeper, but like any young keeper he is suspect at times.

That Joe Hart consistently appears in a world top 5 shows how difficult it can be to get a world class goalkeeper.

He should easily be on of our highest paid players. In two seasons of general under performance by the squad, he has been the one who has improved and maintained a high standard throughout.

If De Gea does move, I'm pretty confident it won't be down to the club not matching his expectations to be honest in terms of finances.

RobertKK

De Gea could simply waiting to see if we get back into the CL before signing. It is where a goalkeeper of his quality deserves to play. He is doing his best to get us there, so whatever he decides, he decides and we should be thankful for all he has done so far for us.

Remember Woodward and Jorge Mendes are close personal friends, to the point where it has been said they send eachother family photos.
If De Gea wants to leave it is his choice, and we will have to simply accept it, miss him and wish him the best, but if he stays he deserves to be the best paid goalkeeper in the world.
We have to wait and see, and just speculate in the meantime...

Rumour that United are prepared to pay £55 million for Pogba or in Euro terms €76 million.
Be nice if he wanted to come back to prove a point. Trapattoni said Pogba doesn't have the style, class or charisma of Zidane,
True, Pogba has not headbutted anyone.

Then the Ronaldo story continues, figures of £71 million being bandied about.

I wonder if Real Madrid would sell Ronaldo to finance the purchase of Pogba and Reus. In the same manner, the sale of Di Maria helped finance the purchase of James Rodriguez.
At 30 years of age it is more likely that Ronaldo will be sold than before now.
I do think Real Madrid will sell at least one very high profile player, at the moment would say Ronaldo more likely than Bale.
Graham Hunter says
“But there is a very clear opinion among the two Manchester clubs, and I mean City as well as United, that they think they have an opportunity to come and buy Ronaldo.
“Honestly, my opinion is we have to wait and see because I think he (Ronaldo) will be tempted. He will be asked by both Manchester clubs. I think that goes for Bale too.
“It has been a talking point among the Manchester City players for a great part of the last 10 days.”


http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11827/9763342/cristiano-ronaldo-and-gareth-bale-targets-for-man-utd-and-city-says-graham-hunter


He goes onto say the relationship between Ronaldo and Bale is not the best.


I would be happy with keeping De Gea, getting a defender or two, Hummels maybe plus one of Laporte/Varane, then Pogba, Ronaldo.
Then some sales...should be affordable with all the sponsors Woodward signed up plus TV money....I'm not looking for much...

MagicIRL

How's Memphis Depay getting on this season? He had a very good world cup but I've not watched any of him this season.

Adamcp898

bangkok wrote: »

already have valdes if de gea does go so we wouldn't be paying spurs anything

I'm resigned to loosing DDG this Summer, and I agree that Valdes will be his replacement as whatever price tag we get for de Gea will be used as the benchmark for the value of quality goalkeepers given how little they move around.

There hasn't been a big goalkeeping transfer in a while and so if we want to replace a top quality one with another, we'll likely pay more than we get as the team with the top GK always has the better bargaining position given the scarcity. Unless you allow him to run down his contract of course.

The Valdes debate has been had, and I'm firmly in the corner that would say Lloris is much, much better but his price will mean it'll be VV next year.

Vic Vinegar

MagicIRL wrote: »

How's Memphis Depay getting on this season? He had a very good world cup but I've not watched any of him this season.

19 goals, 3 assists in 29 games. Great goal return so far!

Lovely Bloke

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Which is what I have done recently.
No intention of moving, did interview, asked for money, got job and am moving company. This scenario could easily happen anywhere in life.

happening to me too, got approached by another company, they asked me to come in and have a look at the place, see if I'd be interested in moving over. I wasn't even looking.

Went in, said why not, and I've an interview next week.

I wonder will the customers of my current employers write bad things about me on the internet.

TheDoc

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Why people expect footballers, or football contracts, or employment negotiations to act differently to non-football employment is beyond me. And also weird.

You general point I agree with, but in fairness the world of football employment is so totally unique it's nothing like normal business, in the slightest.

At the higher echelons of executive level sure it can be a little similar, but for as a majority, they really arn't comparable.

As a very first point, when I get bonus' , salary rises and stuff, its between me and my boss, and no one in my department is any the wiser. Footballer gets a new deal and an hour later it's out in the open, and used as a stick to beat them with.

Not to mention it can cause fractures in the dressing room and disrupt squads. As Jose actually rightly put, there was no way Chelsea would pay a 19 year old who has done nothing in the game (Luke Shaw) €120k a week, and then have to justify to league and champions league winners, why they don't deserve the same.

It's also a unique environment where blatantly sub par players can make a good career in football earning big money, but being nothing other then sub par throughout.

There is some really good debate across Europe at the moment with clubs looking into potentially moving their playing staff to "performance related" contracts.

So they earn a base salary that is relatively low, but have big bonuses' that are performance related.

Personally think its a good idea. Will bring a bit of ambition back to players, rather then making them think they have made it at 19,20,21. Every player should have ambition and drive to be the best, shouldn't be a trait of just elite players.

Would not be surprised in the slightest if say Luke Shaw tails of completely into nothing but mediocrity, or say if Sterling signs a big €180k a week deal and then starts to tail off.

So football is rather unique, in that you can be paid outragous sums of money, and there is no get out or exits for the employer, regardless of how garbage you perform during that period.

Actually, more I write this out, more I struggle to find what I initially agreed with your point. Football and normal employment are worlds apart.

paulbok

Lord TSC wrote: »

if Rooney and RVP are on 200+ a week, De Gea easily deserves to be as well. I'd be far more happy and comfortable with him earning those wages, based on performance and importance to the team and league position, than I am other players.

Might make more sense to put him on 150-180K a week and then increase that yearly as an incentive to stay (or a similiar incentive that he gets a wad of cash after staying for 3 years, more for 5 years etc).

I still think it will all depend on getting CL football for next year.

Lovely Bloke

TheDoc wrote: »

post

all of this guff has nothing to do with the point being made.

MagicIRL

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

19 goals, 3 assists in 29 games. Great goal return so far!

First off, great username!

Secondly, I expected goals/assists but 19? Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus! I'd say he'll have the pick of the bunch this summer.

WallyGUFC

Madrid can have de Gea if they give us Ronaldo, Bale, Modric + £20 million. He's 24 and already I struggle to name keepers better than him. He must have won us at least a dozen points already this season. I'd be heartbroken if he left tbh, even more so than when Ronaldo left.

The Moldy Gowl

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

happening to me too, got approached by another company, they asked me to come in and have a look at the place, see if I'd be interested in moving over. I wasn't even looking.

Went in, said why not, and I've an interview next week.

I wonder will the customers of my current employers write bad things about me on the internet.

Yeah. These 2 examples can be applied to players as well. No intention of moving one week, next week someone comes and talks to them and they change their mind.

But it looks like the squad there is a good fit for eachother and they don't have to worry about money too much. Sure with no champion leauge he will have a good work life balance

TheDoc

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Which is what I have done recently.
No intention of moving, did interview, asked for money, got job and am moving company. This scenario could easily happen anywhere in life.

Yeah but the company you are leaving arn't receiving any financials for you leaving them are they? If your really good at what you do, your company have just lost a valuable asset with no warning and no re numeration.

What if the interview didn't work out? Plenty of companies get whiff of when their staff go on interviews on the QT, and when word comes back, sometimes it can have a negative affect. Actually, in most companies, it's a negitive and your nearly best just leaving.

In football, the "interview" can't even occur until the two companies(clubs) involved have agreed a fee. That fee essentially represents providing financials for the value of the player to the club, but also for training and developement the selling club feel they may have done to contribute to the player.

If it doesn't work out? Player carries on no problems, might even generate interest from elsewhere. And lets not forget in most transfers the player moving get's a ****ing massive signing on fee, for what I have no idea. But there you go.

Sure Rooney got a few mill loyalty bonus for signing that new massive contract. "Wayne really appreciate you signing down to take 250k a week, but just to show you how much we appreciate it, he is 2 million as a thank you. Oh, and just so we are clear, your still entitled to that loyalty bonus from your last deal, so you will get that 2 million too".

**** me, I can't even get a **** laptop that works properly in this place....

RobertKK

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

19 goals, 3 assists in 29 games. Great goal return so far!

Impressive, it has been reported that PSV would want £20 million for him. Depay favourited a tweet which was in Dutch and said "Man United has a lot of money for Depay." but then after it caused a bit of a kerfuffle he removed his favourite for the tweet.
Still only 21...

TheDoc

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

all of this guff has nothing to do with the point being made.

Your saying that the football world of employment is the same as everything else. It's not guf, I responded to a post you made.

Treating them as the same is "guf" to be fair.

Vic Vinegar

MagicIRL wrote: »

First off, great username!

Cheers, used to be Bombleswizzum but felt like a change.

MagicIRL wrote: »

Secondly, I expected goals/assists but 19? Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus! I'd say he'll have the pick of the bunch this summer.

RobertKK wrote: »

Impressive, it has been reported that PSV would want £20 million for him. Depay favourited a tweet which was in Dutch and said "Man United has a lot of money for Depay." but then after it caused a bit of a kerfuffle he removed his favourite for the tweet.
Still only 21...

He has a special father/son type relationship with LvG too, all the signs are pointing towards him joining us in the summer. I'd be very pleased if that happened.

TheDoc

MagicIRL wrote: »

How's Memphis Depay getting on this season? He had a very good world cup but I've not watched any of him this season.

Only started trying to catch the PSV games after reading an article back in January. Seems to be influential in every game.

That article indicated Van Gaal told him to stick with PSV for a year more, and he would be ready to step up into an elite team straight away. Certainly seems that way. The pair seem to have a really good relationship as well, with Depay( who asks to be referred to as Memphis) has a fractured/non existant relationship with his father and Van Gaal fills that role for him, keeping in touch and all that craic. Apparently PSV accepted an offer from Spurs and he told the club under no uncertain terms he didn't want to move last summer.

Appears to play pro dominantly wide on the left cutting inside. Has great pace and is unassumingly strong. Somewhat direct although can have a good dribble, and has a rocket of a foot on him.

I would have struggled to see where he fit into a 3-5-2 or formations we used earlier in the season, but after reading stuff about Van Gaal and how his ultimate goal is X and Y, and seeing how we have deployed recently, could see exactly why he is being linked with us.

5starpool

How long does de Gea have left on his contract? Summer 2016 isn't it? Obviously a contract signed doesn't guarantee staying, but not signing and leaving would be a huge loss to ye, as even this summer ye wouldn't get full value with only 12 months left.

Mitch Connor

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I wonder will the customers of my current employers write bad things about me on the internet.

Probably, but not just customers.

Maximus Alexander

For the price of a Di Maria plus two years of his salary, you could make De Gea the highest paid player in the world for 4 years. Just saying.

Liam McPoyle

While I'd rather DDG stayed, IF the right deal was available eg Ronaldo or Bale going the opposite direction then I wouldn't mind so much if he left.

The reason he has been so prolific this season is because of how shambolic our outfield play has been at times.

If we can get a world class centre half in and a world class DM, which I expect to happen, then I our keeper will be much more protected than Dave has been this season.

Valdes is still young in GK terms and I think he would be a ready made replacement if DDG was to leave.

A lot of ifs and buts of course but I don't think it would be a massive disaster if he left once we address the outfield short comings.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/theunitedview/status/578174752067620864

:pac::pac:

At least having seen the Favellas in Brazil,he'll be used to run down areas when he sees Liverpool.

bangkok

thankfully there is no one here negotiating de geas contract, offering a goalkeeper 390k a week is ludicrous. he will do very well for himself if he earns half of that

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

thankfully there is no one here negotiating de geas contract, offering a goalkeeper 390k a week is ludicrous. he will do very well for himself if he earns half of that

You can't really put a value on earnings due to a position on the field.

Rooney is on 300k a week, would you say he's contributed as much as DDG this season, its irrelevant where you play. All that matters is how much you influence on the pitch proceedings which turns off the field revenues into profits.

Without DDG's heroics we may well be out of the top4 and united would be facing a potential loss of revenue that could stretch 50+ million. You can't put a price on that.

BTW I dont think any player should earn over 200k a week, I'm just arguing the point that the position is irrelevant.

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

You can't really put a value on earnings due to a position on the field.

Rooney is on 300k a week, would you say he's contributed as much as DDG this season, its irrelevant where you play. All that matters is how much you influence on the pitch proceedings which turns off the field revenues into profits.

Without DDG's heroics we may well be out of the top4 and united would be facing a potential loss of revenue that could stretch 50+ million. You can't put a price on that.

BTW I dont think any player should earn over 200k a week, I'm just arguing the point that the position is irrelevant.

he is a goalkeeper at the end of the day, yes he saves goals, is probably 1 of the most important positions on the field but you have to look at the bigger picture.

Manuel Neuer earns 6.25m a year
Peter Cech 5.2m
Thibaut Courtois 3m

to suggest that de gea should be offered 20m per season is just crazy

The Moldy Gowl

Cut those numbers in half and that's what they 'earn'

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

he is a goalkeeper at the end of the day, yes he saves goals, is probably 1 of the most important positions on the field but you have to look at the bigger picture.

Manuel Neuer earns 6.25m a year
Peter Cech 5.2m
Thibaut Courtois 3m

to suggest that de gea should be offered 20m per season is just crazy

I think you are getting a bit pedantic and acting outraged at a hypothetical figure pulled at random to make a point.

De Gea won't be paid 400k, he wouldn't even consider that number himself, and the club wouldn't entertain it.

It's ok, you can relax.

The general point is that in 18 months where our squad has drastically under performed, De Gea has improved and displayed a consistent standard of that you would label "world class".

Under those prerequisites, he is fully entitled to consider himself worth that of equal to the highest paid players in the team, and I'd fully agree with him.

Liam O

After this season I'd say Courtois will be looking for a bit more at the very least.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I think you are getting a bit pedantic and acting outraged at a hypothetical figure pulled at random to make a point.

De Gea won't be paid 400k, he wouldn't even consider that number himself, and the club wouldn't entertain it.

It's ok, you can relax.

The general point is that in 18 months where our squad has drastically under performed, De Gea has improved and displayed a consistent standard of that you would label "world class".

Under those prerequisites, he is fully entitled to consider himself worth that of equal to the highest paid players in the team, and I'd fully agree with him.

never works that way though. outfield players run around 10k a game, goalkeeper while making 5 or 6 saves a game probably only cover 1/5 or 1/6 of that. You never see a keeper as equal top earner at a club no matter how good he is. Peter Schmeichel prime example, best goalkeeper in the world for 6 or 7 years and was never near top earner

The Moldy Gowl

Why would neuer get paid that but de gea wouldn't?

Distance covered stat is a B.s stat as well. Dosent affect anything

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

I think you are getting a bit pedantic and acting outraged at a hypothetical figure pulled at random to make a point.

De Gea won't be paid 400k, he wouldn't even consider that number himself, and the club wouldn't entertain it.

It's ok, you can relax.

The general point is that in 18 months where our squad has drastically under performed, De Gea has improved and displayed a consistent standard of that you would label "world class".

Under those prerequisites, he is fully entitled to consider himself worth that of equal to the highest paid players in the team, and I'd fully agree with him.

Obviously De Gea is never going to be earning what Ronaldo is earning, but the key point for me is that he has arguably been United's most valuable player for the last two seasons, and what he's paid does not reflect that. If he can add that much value to a struggling side, imagine what it would mean to have him guarding the sticks when the team in front of him is performing.

When you look at the money spent on Di Maria, along with his rumoured £11m+ salary, or the £280k per week that United are allegedly paying Falcao, it seems that directing at least some of that money towards De Gea instead would make a lot of sense, because ultimately, he has mattered more.

I don't know what's really going on behind the scenes, but United should be making him a handsome enough offer that whatever Madrid may or may not be prepared to offer him completely loses its lustre.

bangkok

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Why would neuer get paid that but de gea wouldn't?

Distance covered stat is a B.s stat as well. Dosent affect anything

get paid what?

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

never works that way though. outfield players run around 10k a game, goalkeeper while making 5 or 6 saves a game probably only cover 1/5 or 1/6 of that. You never see a keeper as equal top earner at a club no matter how good he is. Peter Schmeichel prime example, best goalkeeper in the world for 6 or 7 years and was never near top earner

Liam O

Rory McIlroy makes more than any of them for just strolling around the place.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

it a fact of life im afraid and no matter how good a goalkeeper is, he will never be recognised as one of the top earners in the world

MagicIRL

Some carry on from you bangkok. You'd swear you were payin' his wages yourself. Cop on would ya.

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

I think you are getting a bit pedantic and acting outraged at a hypothetical figure pulled at random to make a point.

De Gea won't be paid 400k, he wouldn't even consider that number himself, and the club wouldn't entertain it.

It's ok, you can relax.

The general point is that in 18 months where our squad has drastically under performed, De Gea has improved and displayed a consistent standard of that you would label "world class".

Under those prerequisites, he is fully entitled to consider himself worth that of equal to the highest paid players in the team, and I'd fully agree with him.

Exactly . .

A players position shouldn't really matter if they are consistently the clubs best performer (by a country mile) for nearly two seasons.

Its easy to quantify a strikers contribution to a team if you judge them on goals per minute. A top GK like DDG is for me one in a million. He is a top 3 world class goalkeeper and deserves to match whatever the top salary is at the club.

If Bayern lost Neur or Chelsea lost Courtois, would either club really struggle as much as United would if we lost DDG ? Valdes has proven nothing yet in this team or in this league and he will have a crap defence to martial. I am not saying he wouldn't be a capable replacement, I am saying we don't know how he will perform.

There are plenty of goalkeepers at a certain level who deserve to be on what you could call a decent GK wage. DDG is exceptional and worthy of a much higher consideration. Even in basic supply and demand rules, there simply is no equal available replacement for DDG. If he can be this effective with a pub defence on front of him I would love to see how he would perform with an efficient, functioning defence. It could easily be worth more then any Bale transfer . .

FortuneChip

Liam O wrote: »

Rory McIlroy makes more than any of them for just strolling around the place.

Ah, but he's officially the best in the world, and even if he has a bum game, he's hardly gonna try replace himself with someone else in the same position.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

it a fact of life im afraid and no matter how good a goalkeeper is, he will never be recognised as one of the top earners in the world

I'd say that will change pretty soon

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd say that will change pretty soon

cant see it, will be extremely surprised if de gea signs a new contract worth over 200k a week or even near it

bangkok

MagicIRL wrote: »

Some carry on from you bangkok. You'd swear you were payin' his wages yourself. Cop on would ya.

this is real world we live in, OP said united should make de gea top earner in world football, that equals 20m a year, im just saying not a hope he gonna get near that

Bandana boy

Drumpot wrote: »

A top GK like DDG is for me one in a million. He is a top 3 world class goalkeeper and deserves to match whatever the top salary is at the club.

Top 3 in the world would make him a 1 in ~2 billion

Maximus Alexander

Bandana boy wrote: »

Top 3 in the world would make him a 1 in ~2 billion

Are there ~6 billion professional goalkeepers? Sh*t, they really weren't kidding about that overpopulation stuff.

Vic Vinegar

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

Cheers, used to be Bombleswizzum but felt like a change.

Bombles = Vic :eek:

Thought we lost another good one along with Kryo, good to see you're still about.

Bandana boy

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Are there ~6 billion professional goalkeepers? Sh*t, they really weren't kidding about that overpopulation stuff.

Well if you want to measure it that way, not sure there is 3 million people making a living as a professional goal keeper.

Fifa estimates 265 million people play football
Lets assume 1/11th prefer Keeper ,so 24 Million keepers , and top 3 would make him 1 in 8 Million

RobertKK

But at the end of the day I don't see Messi signing for us.