Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

v3ttel

bucketybuck wrote: »

Falcao against Sunderland is another example. Done nothing all game and deserved his impending substitution, the fact that he got bundled over in the box didn't suddenly make the rest of his performance any better.

The one moment didn't make all that preceded it any better. However, the one moment of reasonable control he did bring, was ultimately the match winning moment that we were searching for all game. That to me, would justify reversing a decision to take him off (presumably, the majority in the ground felt the same judging by the reaction to his substitution).

That moment could possibly have been the spark for much better from him. Then, a few minutes later he is taken off, unhappy with the decision, thinks the manager doesn't have faith in him even when he does something well, is then left out the next day, and is back to square one all over again. Confidence plays a ridiculously big part in player performance.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Apropos of nothing I hate this type of reasoning. If Giggs was right to suggest Young be taken off then he was still right to suggest it even if Young subsequently gets gifted a goal by Krul. The only way "I told you so" is applicable is if LVG knew Young staying on would force Krul into the mistake, and that wasn't the case.

He had faith in the player, that he would help the team to get the result - and he did. He was proved correct.

To suggest the manager has to say "I'm keeping him on, because in the 89th minute - he will score in these exact circumstances" is completely ridiculous. He has to use his judgement on the situation, not a crystal ball.

Cookiemunster

bucketybuck wrote: »

But this isn't true. As one example, he was asked before the Newcastle game the tactical reasoning for starting Felliani. Its a fair question and was completely relevant to the impending game, but of course got nothing but an abrupt snarky answer.

He is playing a foolish game in my opinion, any modern manager needs to play the public relations game. Fans will follow the press's lead in very many situations, if the media create an image of poor play from a bad manager many fans will start to believe it and then the pressure comes. If our performances continue as they are then eventually LVG is going to wish he had the press on his side, at least to some extent.

Fergie did anything but play the PR game. He regularly banned reporters (and newspapers) for asking questions he didn't like. He didn't speak to the BBC for a decade.
How is what LVG does any worse than that?

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

That's simply not true, as been discussed numerous times on various podcasts that contain the UK press.

He has no time for the dramatics they try to create. He has a firm belief that the press journalists are to be a conduit for him to communicate with the fans. He has always held that belief.

He get's frustrated, as do I, as do a lot of people, when the press pack completely forget their actual role, and instead divert off to try create dramatic headlines and get "the dirt", without even discussing things that are football related.

He has three media obligations both in pre match and post match. Video media, written media, MUTV.

I think it's cherry picking to say he is obnoxious to everyone. He won't have the time of day for people trying to snatch some gossip or create a drama, and rightly so. He has ALL the time for questions that are based around the game past, game ahead or the squad (within reason).

I watched the extended interview there. ONE question about the upcoming tie, where the journalist pre-fixed it with "history between the teams", in relation to the United tie. There doesn't seem anyone in that press pack confident enough in themselves to even raise a tactical question to him, so they skirt around asking garbage.

The British press will eventually learn. They are MILES behind other press packs and leagues when it comes to football coverage. Sure everyone has a little dig for the dirt here and there, but I've never seen such concentrated collection of "football journalists" in press conferences, be so utterly abject at discussing the topc at hand.

There are plenty of REALLY good journalists in the UK football circus, and I think it's no co incidence that most of them now longer work in the press pack.

Maybe I'm just not journalist material(granted i did work as one for two years) I'd have quickly identified to really have him open up you need to talk about football, his football, and his team.



Try to get some answers around what was the problem with the balance, get some comment on Herrera, and maybe an insight into the "mysterious philosophy".

Instead someone from the DailyMail will probably ask

I heard a journalist on the Football Weekly podcast the other week complaining that Van Gaal is dismissive, difficult or defensive whenever he as asked about tactics. So that doesn't match up with what you are saying.

And the problem is not that the Brittish press are miles behind the other nations. By all accounts Van Gaal has treated the press with contempt everywhere he has worked.

I keep on hearing that he would engage if the journos asked intelligent questions, but I'm not seeing any evidence. Do you have any examples of where this has happened?

UnitedIrishman

TheDoc wrote: »

He get's frustrated, as do I, as do a lot of people, when the press pack completely forget their actual role, and instead divert off to try create dramatic headlines and get "the dirt", without even discussing things that are football related.

This is the problem right here. Fair enough Van Gaal is fractious enough but give me his way of dealing with the media than a lot of others. All they (mainly the Sun, Mirror or Daily Mail) are looking for is that one quote they can manipulate into creating a story.

I had this argument with Rory Smyth from the Times on Twitter before about the lack of genuine football talk and analysis in most newspapers. They simply want to focus on the big drama story and not any tactical analysis or match discussion. Think about it, all that dominates papers from game to game is a controversy from the last game or the old rehashed 'rivalry' bollocks that we'll be reading up about until Monday's Arsenal tie. It's like groundhog day before the big games. Smyth reckoned that a comparison with the likes of France Football and Gazetta are redundant because they're sport specific - my retort was that there are still sport specific pages in their papers, why not use them constructively but he reckoned it's all down to editorial taste. And therein lies the problem. The majority of fans that pick up a paper in England have no interest bar reading the headlines and making the most of it. The love the sensational aspect of it and would be bored or lost by an indepth discussion on the intricacies of a 4-3-3 system or the like.

But just because the papers have to shovel their ****e and sell their papers doesn't mean that Van Gaal has to play ball. His job is to manage a football team not be a monkey on a piano in front of the press. As Sky Sports News has already shown, they'll simply twist anything you say into what the context they need to. I'm fully behind any double barrelled fúck you approach by any manager to the press.

Also regarding 'managers have to play the PR game'. Bollocks. Rodgers has got on with the press well since being at Liverpool, they were still writing headlines about him being gone by Christmas and it all falling apart when they were on the way out of the Champions League. Same with Pellegrini. Being buddies with the press doesn't help you in any way, shape or form.

bucketybuck

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Fergie did anything but play the PR game. He regularly banned reporters (and newspapers) for asking questions he didn't like. He didn't speak to the BBC for a decade.
How is what LVG does any worse than that?

On the contrary, Fergie very much played the public relations game, he was very smart in the relationships he fostered and the soundbites he released to the press. Fergie played the game to such an extent he was able to control it, the very opposite of not playing it.

There is a massive difference between what Fergie did and LVG's all antagonistic all the time approach.

The Moldy Gowl

Why are ye getting so worked up as how he treats journalists or won't give awa tactics?

Would ye rather be fed sweet nothings?

Any fan who turns on him by listening to the press is an idiot. Not that it matters what fans think, because you know we aren't important anymore.

Just as long as the money is coming in and then team is near the top then he is doing a good job regardless what the press say or who calls him a spoofer

Cookiemunster

bucketybuck wrote: »

On the contrary, Fergie very much played the public relations game, he was very smart in the relationships he fostered and the soundbites he released to the press. Fergie played the game to such an extent he was able to control it, the very opposite of not playing it.

There is a massive difference between what Fergie did and LVG's all antagonistic all the time approach.

So banning reporters for asking the wrong questions and refusing to speak to the BBC was playing the PR game? Journos feared Fergie. That's why he had control. Print or say something he didn't like and you were out. That's not playing the game, it's riding roughshod over it.

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Also regarding 'managers have to play the PR game'. Bollocks. Rodgers has got on with the press well since being at Liverpool, they were still writing headlines about him being gone by Christmas and it all falling apart when they were on the way out of the Champions League. Same with Pellegrini. Being buddies with the press doesn't help you in any way, shape or form.

Bollocks indeed.

Speak to Harry Redknapp and then AVB and then wonder what effect the press can have. Hell, you mention Pellegrini, why not compare his treatment to that of Mancini? Think the treatment has been the same?

Nobody said that good press relations are a guarantee that hard questions won't be asked, but if you think it doesn't make a difference you are fooling yourself.

bucketybuck

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So banning reporters for asking the wrong questions and refusing to speak to the BBC was playing the PR game? Journos feared Fergie. That's why he had control. Print or say something he didn't like and you were out. That's not playing the game, it's riding roughshod over it.

Fergie created a situation where journalists would refrain from printing critical or damaging stories out of a fear of the consequence, how can that be anything but playing the game? And it wasn't all fear, he was smart enough to foster very good relationships with various journalists, he gave plenty of good along with the bad.

You think any journalist is going to hold back on LVG if they get a juicy story? Will they heck, they'll go after him with both barrels, because there's no point in fearing a coach who is always antagonistic.

Maximus Alexander

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So banning reporters for asking the wrong questions and refusing to speak to the BBC was playing the PR game? Journos feared Fergie. That's why he had control. Print or say something he didn't like and you were out. That's not playing the game, it's riding roughshod over it.

Fergie played the press like a fiddle.

It was an outward glimpse of what made him such a good manager - if he could control the press like that, you can extrapolate his effect on the players.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Why are ye getting so worked up as how he treats journalists or won't give awa tactics?

Would ye rather be fed sweet nothings?

Any fan who turns on him by listening to the press is an idiot. Not that it matters what fans think, because you know we aren't important anymore.

Just as long as the money is coming in and then team is near the top then he is doing a good job regardless what the press say or who calls him a spoofer

Nobody is getting worked up about how he treats the press. I stated the caveat that he will be judged on results, performances and transfers in my OP. It hasn't been a long conversation, so you've no excuse for acting like you can't follow what has been said.

The idea that it is Van Gaal's unreasonableness or cliched non-statements is a false dilemma. There are plenty of other ways a manager could talk to the press.

Just because the criteria he needs to meet to keep his job are obvious, doesn't mean that we should never voice our opinions on how he is going about his job. You don't seem to have any issue with those heaping praise on him for how he interacts with the press, yet when there is some criticism of him for the same thing you feel the need to tell us how it's not important for his job security.

bangkok

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So banning reporters for asking the wrong questions and refusing to speak to the BBC was playing the PR game? Journos feared Fergie. That's why he had control. Print or say something he didn't like and you were out. That's not playing the game, it's riding roughshod over it.

no, he wanted what he said printed, not some spin put on it, that's what he hated

thelad95

We're not a million miles off a title challenge to be honest. If LVG had won the first 5 games of the season, we're title challengers all of a sudden.

MagicMarker

thelad95 wrote: »

We're not a million miles off a title challenge to be honest. If LVG had won the first 5 games of the season, we're title challengers all of a sudden.

Hey, if Leicester had won their first 15 games they'd be title challengers all of a sudden.

Maximus Alexander

thelad95 wrote: »

We're not a million miles off a title challenge to be honest. If LVG had won the first 5 games of the season, we're title challengers all of a sudden.

What an odd thing to say... If I'd thought of the iPhone first I'd be a billionaire all of a sudden.

RGDATA!

thelad95 wrote: »

We're not a million miles off a title challenge to be honest. If LVG had won the first 5 games of the season, we're title challengers all of a sudden.

does your auntie have balls by any chance?

grames_bond

Herrera Voted player of the month!

“This means a lot to me because the votes came from our fans and I’m very happy and grateful to them.”


http://bit.ly/1AO7ZPm

Cantona's Collars

United and Arsenal to turn OT into 70's style on Monday night.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2980975/Manchester-United-Arsenal-fans-set-turn-retro-FA-Cup-quarter-final-clash.html

Vic Vinegar

grames_bond wrote: »

Herrera Voted player of the month!

Delighted for him! hopefully he's going to be in starting eleven now for a long time to come.

UnitedIrishman

bucketybuck wrote: »

Bollocks indeed.

Speak to Harry Redknapp and then AVB and then wonder what effect the press can have. Hell, you mention Pellegrini, why not compare his treatment to that of Mancini? Think the treatment has been the same?

Nobody said that good press relations are a guarantee that hard questions won't be asked, but if you think it doesn't make a difference you are fooling yourself.

That only matters if the managers actually care themselves. LVG clearly doesn't - as should any decent manager.

Cantona's Collars

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/05/manchester-united-make-5-7m-transfer-bid-for-wonderkid-kenedy-5090781/

Manchester United have reportedly made a £5.7million bid to sign Brazilian sensation Kenedy.

The Fluminense attacker, who has been dubbed the ‘new Neymar’, looks set to move to Europe at the end of the season.

United have been following his progress, along with Barcelona, and now reports in Spain say the Red Devils have now lodged a £5.7million bid.

glued

zerks wrote: »

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/05/manchester-united-make-5-7m-transfer-bid-for-wonderkid-kenedy-5090781/

That same journalist posted an article a few hours ago about Fellaini's porn star girl friend dumping him despite his 'cute' hair.

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

That only matters if the managers actually care themselves. LVG clearly doesn't - as should any decent manager.

Hence my post and the conversation...

bucketybuck wrote: »

He is playing a foolish game in my opinion, any modern manager needs to play the public relations game.

UnitedIrishman

bucketybuck wrote: »

Hence my post and the conversation...

So what you're trying to say is that he's not a modern manager but Harry Redknapp is?

Cantona's Collars

glued wrote: »

That same journalist posted an article a few hours ago about Fellaini's porn star girl friend dumping him despite his 'cute' hair.

Kept getting stuck in her teeth?:p

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

So what you're trying to say is that he's not a modern manager but Harry Redknapp is?

What an inane response, I actually can't tell if you are serious or trolling. Either way, I have no interest in finding out. Have a nice day.

Vic Vinegar

zerks wrote: »

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/05/manchester-united-make-5-7m-transfer-bid-for-wonderkid-kenedy-5090781/

Why does every single young player have to be "the new (insert name here)"

Quite annoying.

UnitedIrishman

bucketybuck wrote: »

What an inane response, I actually can't tell if you are serious or trolling. Either way, I have no interest in finding out. Have a nice day.

Off you go. About to enter a losing argument, disappear. As per usual. Good luck.

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Off you go. About to enter a losing argument, disappear. As per usual. Good luck.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

So what you're trying to say is that he's not a modern manager but Harry Redknapp is?

:rolleyes:

Liam O

I haven't been overly impressed by Herrera recently, I'd much rather see Fellaini in there over him if it came to choosing between them. I do like Herrera but I feel there has been a bit of the Andy Reids about him so far that he's been overrated from being out of the team for a while. In an ideal scenario I'd like to see Blind dropped soon and Fellaini and Herrera in there as a duo because I think it's attack that has to be improved and soon and Blind has been below par the last few weeks too.

Vic Vinegar

I think we'll see this on Monday and i like it.


__________________The Wall_______________

Valencia.......Smalling............Rojo...........Shaw


............................Carrick...........................

..............Herrera.................Fellaini..............


Di Maria.............................................Young

...........................Rooney..........................

Maximus Alexander

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

I think we'll see this on Monday


__________________The Wall_______________

Valencia.......Smalling............Rojo...........Shaw


............................Carrick...........................

..............Herrera.................Fellaini..............


Di Maria.............................................Young

...........................Rooney..........................

Wouldn't bet on Blind being dropped.

keeponhurling

On Herrera, in central midfield you'd prefer a lad who imposes themselves on the game a bit, Herrera can kind of drift in and out.
Felt the Newcastle game passed him out a bit, and he was weak in some of the challenges.

On Evans, assuming he gets banned, then Rojo goes to CB and either Blind or Shaw slots in at LB ?

Lucas Hood

Blind at LB if Shaw isn't fit enough to start.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

I heard a journalist on the Football Weekly podcast the other week complaining that Van Gaal is dismissive, difficult or defensive whenever he as asked about tactics. So that doesn't match up with what you are saying.

I think I heard that pod as well and if I am not mistaken it was Johnathan Wilson. Might have been wrong but he was on recently and was mentioning about Van Gaal being snarky and short, but Wilson has burnt a fair few bridges around clubs and he is not even in the press conferences anymore so he is probably relaying second hand info from the Guardian press lads, who in fairness are no great shakes and have a trait for the dramatic.

I keep on hearing that he would engage if the journos asked intelligent questions, but I'm not seeing any evidence. Do you have any examples of where this has happened?

Ok so I'm not going go trawl through youtube to find them, but there is a liter of them for all throughout the season.

You can get the full press conferences on various channels on youtube. There are plenty of even recent examples of him having good conversations. Remember that United has a good contingent of foreign press, more then most clubs. So all that gets edited out if you were watching SSN or the likes, who really only show what their own lads are saying, or if there is some good lines he gives to a question raised by someone else.

Look I take your point he can be short and obnoxious, and he is more tetchy lately then normal. But I don't agree that he has been obnoxious for the entirety of his time at the club, and I think he gives short shrift answers to those deserving of one.

As recently as Swansea in the post match he was asked by a French correspondent does he know why the team is failing to be incisive in the final third, and he gave a measured response in regards to the team not exploiting the space created when the ball is moving in midfield.

Knowing the press they will take collective offence to his recent manner and will prod and prod and poke to get a big reaction out of him, rather then evaluating the rubbish lines of questioning they present and maybe asking relevant football stuff.

Whatsisname

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Blind at LB if Shaw isn't fit enough to start.

I was thinking this too, but Blind would be crucified against Sanchez/Walcott for pace so I think Shaw was being saved for Arsenal maybe.

MagicIRL

Whatsisname wrote: »

I was thinking this too, but Blind would be crucified against Sanchez/Walcott for pace so I think Shaw was being saved for Arsenal maybe.

So.. your answer to pace is Michael... Carrick?

MagicMarker

MagicIRL wrote: »

So.. your answer to pace is Michael... Carrick?

Does Carrick play LB now?

adox

MagicIRL wrote: »

So.. your answer to pace is Michael... Carrick?

He's talikng about Blind at LB.

Whatsisname

What Adox and MagicMarker said

MagicIRL

I'm glad it's taken the three of yis to clear that up. Go have a kitkat or something. Well deserved.

MagicMarker

MagicIRL wrote: »

I'm glad it's taken the three of yis to clear that up. Go have a kitkat or something. Well deserved.

Whatsisname

MagicIRL wrote: »

I'm glad it's taken the three of yis to clear that up. Go have a kitkat or something. Well deserved.

Me-OW.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

I think I heard that pod as well and if I am not mistaken it was Johnathan Wilson. Might have been wrong but he was on recently and was mentioning about Van Gaal being snarky and short, but Wilson has burnt a fair few bridges around clubs and he is not even in the press conferences anymore so he is probably relaying second hand info from the Guardian press lads, who in fairness are no great shakes and have a trait for the dramatic.

I don't think it was Wilson - who is amount the very best journalists in the game - but I can't remember who it was. Which podcasts are you getting your information from that you think are more reliable than the Guardian?

TheDoc wrote: »

Ok so I'm not going go trawl through youtube to find them, but there is a liter of them for all throughout the season.

You can get the full press conferences on various channels on youtube. There are plenty of even recent examples of him having good conversations. Remember that United has a good contingent of foreign press, more then most clubs. So all that gets edited out if you were watching SSN or the likes, who really only show what their own lads are saying, or if there is some good lines he gives to a question raised by someone else.

Look I take your point he can be short and obnoxious, and he is more tetchy lately then normal. But I don't agree that he has been obnoxious for the entirety of his time at the club, and I think he gives short shrift answers to those deserving of one.

As recently as Swansea in the post match he was asked by a French correspondent does he know why the team is failing to be incisive in the final third, and he gave a measured response in regards to the team not exploiting the space created when the ball is moving in midfield.

Knowing the press they will take collective offence to his recent manner and will prod and prod and poke to get a big reaction out of him, rather then evaluating the rubbish lines of questioning they present and maybe asking relevant football stuff.

You're right, I had completely forgotten about his post match behaviour, he has indeed been polite in those situations. And tbh, taking a quick look on youtube, I see him behaving reasonably in other interviews and pressers as well. I still don't see this interest in discussing tactics and philosophy that people are claiming he exhibits. If anything the questions about tactics are among the ones he is least interested in answering.

And you are still ignoring the fact that he has had a difficult relationship with the press in every country he has worked in. It is not at all a phenomenon that is limited to the British press.

mcratsix

I'd definitely prefer Fellaini, blind and carrick in midfield vs Arsenal, as they'll probably have more possession and Herrera doesn't get stuck in as much. Brutal lack of pace in that midfield though.

Robson99

mcratsix wrote: »

I'd definitely prefer Fellaini, blind and carrick in midfield vs Arsenal, as they'll probably have more possession and Herrera doesn't get stuck in as much. Brutal lack of pace in that midfield though.

Lack of pace and zero creativity. Herrera should be the first of the midfielders picked.

mcratsix

Robson99 wrote: »

Lack of pace and zero creativity. Herrera should be the first of the midfielders picked.

Normally I'd completely agree, but I don't think we can control the game vs Arsenal regardless of who we play in midfield. I'd rather just leave Di Maria, Januzaij and Rooney to counter attack.
Maybe only two out of Carrick, Blind and Fellaini should be selected. I'm presuming we'll play five in midfield.

Rayne Wooney

Counter attacking is the way to go against them, we were starved of the ball last time although we stupidly played 5 at the back that day which just let them try pick us off from midfield for most of the game

I vaguely rememeber we had something like one shot on goal, but scored two, while they had around 10

Young/Januzaj and Di Maria wide of Rooney, Herrera Fellaini and Blind/Carrick in the middle

Robson99

mcratsix wrote: »

I'm presuming we'll play five in midfield.

Anything is possible with him. I don't think he knows himself whats the best formation for the players he has

kryogen

Arsenal don't have the best midfield in all fairness, with the injuries they are carrying we should certainly be looking to control that area. Are any of Arteta, Wilshire or Flamini expected back for the game?

I know Diaby is their Hargreaves, Cazorla as a CM hardly inspires fear in the opposition does it? Not a bad time to playing Arsenal tbh (is there ever)